Warframe.Market Pay to Win?

[Voltage]

I understand Warframe.Market is a 3rd party side that is not tied to Digital Extremes.

I am making this topic as it is very concerning the route it takes. They introduced a reputation system, as well as extra features who pay the website using Patreon. This is quite annoying as trading should not have advantages to being a paying customer, and also list based on your reputation. Reputation can be earned from bonuses for being a Patreon, as well as reviews. I want to know everyone's thoughts on where this site is going as it is concerning that the largest 3rd party trading site for this game is Pay2Win and gives an advantage for people who pay to the website. I also trade mostly in chat, so this does not affect me too much. I am thinking about those that will miss sales because someone has higher reputation from paying to the site and being prioritized higher on the list. Let me know your thoughts and opinions.

Simply put by @-dicht.Goko-:

4 minutes ago, -dicht.Goko- said:

This goes contrary to the very nature of free market trade, since you can pay to boost your visibility. 

Here is an image if you are not familiar with the recent changes the website has undergone:

Edited October 30, 2017 by --Q--Voltage

[Zephyr_TheMLGPro]

Its a third party website, they gotta make money somehow(that's my thought). I'm okay with it btw as long as its not a thing implemented by DE.

[Archistopheles]

2 minutes ago, --Q--Voltage said:

extra features who pay the website using Patreon

Profiting off Digital Extremes' work could be seen as a breach of the ToS:

 

"Under this Limited Use License, you are not permitted to transfer, sell, exchange, copy, publish, distribute, or assign anything derived from the software, Game, and Website ("Properties"). The Properties are strictly for your individual use and entertainment purposes, all of which are non-commercial."

 

But I'm sure someone with more legal savvy than me will poke holes in my claim.

[lovesz]

Just now, Zephyr_TheMLGPro said:

Its a third party website, they gotta make money somehow(that's my thought). I'm okay with it btw as long as its not a thing implemented by DE.

Main issue with this website, this is what used by 99% of WF community instead of tradechat

[xLUONG]

Wat.
I'm an avid used of the market, though I haven't been active in the last week so I haven't seen the changes.
I assume you still can sort from lowest to highest price though? So I'm not sure what the benefits are.
People will always buy the cheapest items no matter what the reputation level are on the seller.

[-dicht.Goko-]

1 minute ago, Zephyr_TheMLGPro said:

Its a third party website, they gotta make money somehow(that's my thought). I'm okay with it btw as long as its not a thing implemented by DE.

 

there are other ways to make money. with all due respect to the devs who worked on it, this is a direction they announced taking the site a while ago and at that time people had concerns about the impact of a P2W system in trading.

This goes contrary to the very nature of free market trade, since you can pay to boost your visibility. 

[Gunslinger]

99% will sort the ads by price. I use that site for "dumping" I sell a lot of stuff and always have the lowest price. I don't think that who opens the site will go, "hmmm here is a dude that sells this thing twice the lowest price but has a nice nickname and good reputation and a little icon that shows his support for the market, I'll buy from him" As long there is a "sort by price" tag I don't see a problem.

[Zephyr_TheMLGPro]

Just now, -dicht.Heartbreaker- said:

Main issue with this website, this is what used by 99% of WF community instead of tradechat

Well the thing is it is easy to use because you dont have to deal with multiple things like:

1) "Offer me" guys.

2) Keep staring at trade chat screen to look for a thing you want.

With the addition of the filter system the trade chat feels better but it still is a mess sometimes.

[Shiichibukai]

8 minutes ago, --Q--Voltage said:

I understand Warframe.Market is a 3rd party side that is not tied to Digital Extremes.

I am making this topic as it is very concerning the route it takes. They introduced a reputation system, as well as extra features who pay the website using Patreon. This is quite annoying as trading should not have advantages to being a paying customer, and also list based on your reputation. Reputation can be earned from bonuses for being a Patreon, as well as reviews. I want to know everyone's thoughts on where this site is going as it is concerning that the largest 3rd party trading site for this game is Pay2Win and gives an advantage for people who pay to the website. I also trade mostly in chat, so this does not affect me too much. I am thinking about those that will miss sales because someone has higher reputation from paying to the site and being prioritized higher on the list. Let me know your thoughts and opinions.

Just undercut like S#&$, no problems at all. I dont really care if ppl are greedy like that and try to make money off everything there is. Not gonna pay for it.

[-dicht.Goko-]

2 minutes ago, Archistopheles said:

Profiting off Digital Extremes' work could be seen as a breach of the ToS:

 

"Under this Limited Use License, you are not permitted to transfer, sell, exchange, copy, publish, distribute, or assign anything derived from the software, Game, and Website ("Properties"). The Properties are strictly for your individual use and entertainment purposes, all of which are non-commercial."

 

But I'm sure someone with more legal savvy than me will poke holes in my claim.

content creators technically profit from DE's work.

It's more to do with direct infringement i.e. using DE's/warframe's logo to market merch 

[MrRagez]

I always undercut the market anyways, my offers never stay up long at all.

[Biglo2]

Technically it is against The TOS but most developers will just completely ignore that it breaches until it becomes a problem. Right now it's beneficial but if it ever effects DE in the future negatively they will surely make legal moves.

[Voltage]

6 minutes ago, Shichibukai88 said:

Just undercut like S#&$, no problems at all. I dont really care if ppl are greedy like that and try to make money off everything there is. Not gonna pay for it.

5 minutes ago, MrRagez said:

I always undercut the market anyways, my offers never stay up long at all.

Requiring to undercut prices because someone else is selling faster due to spending real life money to trade is quite ironic and not an excuse. Why should I spend 30 dollars to be more visible when I can just buy platinum from Digital Extremes?

Edited October 30, 2017 by --Q--Voltage

[notlamprey]

There have been so many red flags raised with this update to the site; I've resolved not to use it in its current state.

General connectivity/uptime problems, massive ad placement and scripting loads, a reputation system without any safeguards against abuse...

No thanks. I've done a great deal of trading through that site in the past, but I will resort to trade chat or bazaar trading for now.

[phoenix1992]

Talk about shooting them self in the foot.

[xLUONG]

4 minutes ago, --Q--Voltage said:

Requiring to undercut to sell because someone else is selling faster due to spending real life money to trade is quite ironic and not an excuse. Why should I spend 30 dollars to be more visible when I can just buy platinum from Digital Extremes?

I'm sorry if I'm slow here (english is not my first language)
How exactly are these people going to sell faster? I just checked the site and you can still sort prices from low to high.
I agree that a patreon system seems very weird, but I don't see the benefits for said patreons.

Edit: Nvm. If several sellers have items at the same price, the patreons are listed at the top I assume.
Then yeah.. that does seem very weird.

Edited October 30, 2017 by xLUONG

[Nirrel]

Dunno, what this reputation system is about. You cannot be scammed through trade in warframe if you pay a minimum attention to what you are doing so ppl still wont care for your "reputation" but for the price you are selling at. Seems superfluous to me.

However I liked the old layout better. It's very fancy right now but not very practical with the endless scrolling  and it seems to me that it's not really working yet. Just constantly connecting, I cannnot change my on line status and so on.

13 minutes ago, -dicht.Heartbreaker- said:

Main issue with this website, this is what used by 99% of WF community instead of tradechat

Thre is a very good reason for it....the trade chat is one of the most horrible experience that you can have in WF...apart from fishing...

[Voltage]

Just now, xLUONG said:

I'm sorry if I'm slow here (english is not my first language)
How exactly are these people going to sell faster? I just checked the site and you can still sort prices from low to high.
I agree that a patreon system seems very weird, but I don't see the benefits for said patreons.

It is more flashy. It would be like a Chat Moderator selling wares in trade chat and having their purple text on. Sure their prices might not beat some players, but some players "window shop" and see the flashy name and buy from said distributor. Warframe.market gives players who pay the site more advertisement using custom profiles, more reputation and flashy "Veteran tags":

Compared to:

[notlamprey]

No reputation system was ever necessary.

I'd contend that the only reason it was added and functions as it does is to cajole people into making monetary contributions to the site.

Considering how heavily that site is already monetizing with advertisements, there does seem to be a genuine inclination towards "profit-first" orientation.

What bums me out the most is that lots of average people with only small sums of plat (or real money) will probably have greater difficulty using the site now. It's less friendly to people with less bandwidth on their internet connections, it's less friendly for mobile devices, and default listing filters favor paying users.

 

[-JT-_-R3W1ND]

9 minutes ago, --Q--Voltage said:

It is more flashy. It would be like a Chat Moderator selling wares in trade chat and having their purple text on. Sure their prices might not beat some players, but some players "window shop" and see the flashy name and buy from said distributor. Warframe.market gives players who pay the site more advertisement using custom profiles, more reputation and flashy "Veteran tags":

Compared to:

I am still don't get what are you whine for.

I see pretty same list of sellers. I sort it for online and price.

Yes, there is reputation now, but why anybody will ever care? You just PM a person, inv them and trade. And no kind of reputation doesn't change anything. You even need to check all, couse ppl can fault. If you wanna be first, just put price down, this is how it work. "Pay to win one plat" sound like a joke.

What do you want? Pirple nick? Another picture to profile? BTW, i never ever look at somebody profile page. Why you do?

[notlamprey]

1 minute ago, -JT-_-R3W1ND said:

I am still don't get what are you whine for.

I see pretty same list of sellers. I sort it for online and price.

Yes, there is reputation now, but why anybody will ever care? You just PM a person, inv them and trade. And no kind of reputation doesn't change anything. You even need to check all, couse ppl can fault. If you wanna be first, just put price down, this is how it work. "Pay to win one plat" sound like a joke.

What do you want? Pirple nick? Another picture to profile? BTW, i never ever look at somebody profile page. Why you do?

No one is "whining," and the suggestion is uncalled for.

You'd be surprised how many people wouldn't have the idea or capability to change site settings in order to use it as you're describing. Something can be possible and not also be sufficiently user-friendly.

You yourself assert that "reputation doesn't change anything." Then why add it in the first place?

All the ad hominem stuff at the end just isn't necessary or helpful. You're just misrepresenting the person you quote, in order to make them look bad.

 

[Shiichibukai]

44 minutes ago, --Q--Voltage said:

Requiring to undercut prices because someone else is selling faster due to spending real life money to trade is quite ironic and not an excuse. Why should I spend 30 dollars to be more visible when I can just buy platinum from Digital Extremes?

Up until now I didnt even know there was this reputation crap. I just undercut in general cuz I really dont care about min/maxing prices.

[Heckzu]

Considering that it's still a free service, I don't mind of there's some optional payment.

But what I am concerned about is how the database used is now less optimized than before, and the script used to autofill the search bar seems to not work the first time an item name is clicked on, at least for me.

[Carnage2K4]

1 hour ago, --Q--Voltage said:

I understand Warframe.Market is a 3rd party side that is not tied to Digital Extremes.

I am making this topic as it is very concerning the route it takes. They introduced a reputation system, as well as extra features who pay the website using Patreon. This is quite annoying as trading should not have advantages to being a paying customer, and also list based on your reputation. Reputation can be earned from bonuses for being a Patreon, as well as reviews. I want to know everyone's thoughts on where this site is going as it is concerning that the largest 3rd party trading site for this game is Pay2Win and gives an advantage for people who pay to the website. I also trade mostly in chat, so this does not affect me too much. I am thinking about those that will miss sales because someone has higher reputation from paying to the site and being prioritized higher on the list. Let me know your thoughts and opinions.

Simply put by @-dicht.Goko-:

Here is an image if you are not familiar with the recent changes the website has undergone:

 

Where is the "pay2Win"?

All reputation does is add another search field... You think anyone will be using that to actually find the best/lowest item they want to buy?

You're kidding right? That field will never be touched...

Edited October 30, 2017 by Carnage2K4

[-JT-_-R3W1ND]

4 minutes ago, yerpmalton said:

No one is "whining," and the suggestion is uncalled for.

You'd be surprised how many people wouldn't have the idea or capability to change site settings in order to use it as you're describing. Something can be possible and not also be sufficiently user-friendly.

You yourself assert that "reputation doesn't change anything." Then why add it in the first place?

All the ad hominem stuff at the end just isn't necessary or helpful. You're just misrepresenting the person you quote, in order to make them look bad.

 

Exuce me, but that person just ashame wf.market and "ask question". How you prefer to call it? Also, why you tolerante to it, but find some "ad hominem" from me? Is this post helpful? I don't think so.

And what about settings... I don't know how to help people if they can't sort list by price. You make so strange point... It make me think you just trolling. Somebody will ignore price, but will notice reputation?