Volt Changes

[LascarCapable]

The Discharge buff was pretty poorly made to begin with. Flat out buffing the DPS of the ability will reduce greatly its CC potential on smaller targets. I don't need to do the math : that reddit guy made it for me : 

Increasing the damage of Discharge just nerfs the ability in end game scenarios. The 4 second stun guarantee is only a mere change to counterbalance the fact that Discharge will reach its maximum damage cap much more quickly. Targets will be CC-ed for a much shorter duration (unless they are heavily armored), and due to the damage cap you won't be able to do any significant damage to the target. Removing the damage cap on the other hand might make Overload too strong (we don't want another press 4 to win ability). This is why the damage cap should have very likely been doubled as well when that change was made, so the CC effect wouldn't have taken too much of a hit.

Another issue that has been widely ignored : the power combos. There is just no point about casting shock through eclectric shield : the damage value is just too small. There is also no point about shocking targets under discharge : the damage value is also too small. All those combos are just based on pure damage that would just be way too low to really matter part level 30. Those combos should be changed :

• The shock + shield combo should inflict an electric proc with 100% chance.
• Casting shock on an overloaded target should refresh the damage cap instead of creating that useless AoE burst.

The cost change on Electric shield was welcomed, but should have very likely been made the other way around. Carrying the shield should pump your energy based on duration, not based on the distance travelled. I also see no point about preventing Volt from using his primary while the shield is being carried. You are already limited in speed and get an energy cost over time. It's a lot.

Finally, shock needs to stun targets much more reliably, as electric procs will have no stun effect on targets mid animation for some reason, which makes Shock not as reliable as it should be.

[Vafthrudnir]

47 minutes ago, D20 said:

refresh the damage cap instead of creating that useless AoE burst

Who knows if it actually shortens the duration even more.

 

48 minutes ago, D20 said:

Finally, shock needs to stun targets much more reliably

Shock needs to scale on duration and power, also needs an utility tied to it otherwise it'll be always useless.

[Mudfam]

47 minutes ago, D20 said:

(we don't want another press 4 to win ability). This is why the damage cap should have very likely been doubled as well when that change was made, so the CC effect wouldn't have taken too much of a hit.

I agree, but I still think the damage cap must go as it breaks the ability mechanics.

The problem would be that without the cap a fully modded Volt might do 800 damage per second for 20 seconds, and with as many as 8 targets shocking eachother that would come to over 120'000 damage.

The cap is a very bad solution though. Why does this ability have a longer duration than Speed?! It should have a base 4 second duration, that is actually affected by mods. If it's still too much damage reduce it, or make duration reduce the damage per second, or apply diminishing returns to more targets shocking eachother. Anything but just outright breaking the ability.

Duration should affect Discharge, crowd density should affect Discharge. As it's just all backwards and contradictory and inconsistent. The ability's main feature ends up working against it rather than for it.

To me either way the damage is irrelevant. In the starchart all enemies basically die from the soundwave caused by you jumping off your landing craft and can't harm you even if you AFK. Then we have level 100 content where enemies suddenly have 100'000 EHP, or 4'000'000 if you were so negligent as to not bring Corrosive Projection, and can kill you with a disapproving glance.

Warframe scaling a nutshell.

Level 100 content is the only benchmark of our loadouts. Non scaling ability damage is completely irrelevant, the only thing left is whatever utility they provide. I just want to have fun using all of Volt's abilities, and feel that my specific build choices matter.

[LascarCapable]

il y a 5 minutes, giovanniluca a dit :

Who knows if it actually shortens the duration even more.

 

Shock needs to scale on duration and power, also needs an utility tied to it otherwise it'll be always useless.

It does. If you reach the damage cap before the 4 seconds guaranteed CC, enemies will just all be released after that 4 seconds duration.

Now about shock. It was never useless to begin with. The main utility of that skill was to interrupt enemies and provide a short duration CC just to allow you to get their heads or reposition yourself. Because the skill doesn't interrupt any actions, you are able to cast it on the fly whenever you want. But the skill is now unreliable since the enemies are able to ignore the electric proc stun. This just needs to be corrected. After that, shock's utility should be back to normal.

Shock is not adapted to scale on power duration since the CC is coming from the electric proc. And Volt is more meant to be a gunplay enhancer than an alternative to gunplay despite his in game description. DE should probably give it a look.

[Vafthrudnir]

2 minutes ago, D20 said:

Shock is not adapted to scale on power duration since the CC is coming from the electric proc. And Volt is more meant to be a gunplay enhancer than an alternative to gunplay despite his in game description. DE should probably give it a look.

But you'll agree that the modding Volt requires gives no benefit on Shock, even the chains don't scale.

[LascarCapable]

il y a 22 minutes, giovanniluca a dit :

But you'll agree that the modding Volt requires gives no benefit on Shock, even the chains don't scale.

Modding for power strenght gives more damage (useless for shock, but you likely want that for Speed). Modding for power range will increase the range at which shock's lightning can chain with other enemies (utility is debatable). It is however worth noticing that power strenght will increase the bonus brought by Shock Trooper. Indeed modding doesn't matter too much for Shock, but so does it for Electric Shield.

You are mostly bound on modding Volt around Strenght for Speed. Duration won't matter too much due to Discharge's damage cap, and the shield is good enough around 100% power duration and Speed is recastable mid use, so low-ish duration is compensable. Volt always had "poor stat mod" scaling, which is interesting in some way as it can allow you to mod him much more freely. Though in the end I think most of us build for maximizing Speed, as it's the only power that truly benefit from being maximized.

[Vafthrudnir]

3 minutes ago, D20 said:

but you likely want that for Speed

Why would you want range for speed.

Staying a little close is enough for teammates to get the buff, if they want it cause parkour goes faster.

 

Edited December 1, 2017 by giovanniluca

[LascarCapable]

il y a 4 minutes, giovanniluca a dit :

Why would you want range for speed.

*strenght

[Callback]

20 hours ago, Mudfam said:

I don't understand DE's obsession with trying to force us to play defensively. This game is fun because of its fast paced movement, campy abilities and objectives kill it.

DE has been killing camping for years.  The channel efficiency changes, Greedy Pull being nerfed into the ground, Mesa nerfs, "AFK" penalty that applies even while you're actively playing just for not moving far enough around, Viver destroyed, E Gate destroyed, Draco destroyed, Anything that makes camping in one spot (including in survival missions, wtf?) remotely viable gets immediately trashed by DE.

[TKDancer]

18 minutes ago, Callback said:

DE has been killing camping for years.

octavia

[Gilmaesh]

1 hour ago, Callback said:

DE has been killing camping for years. 

quake banshee

edit : i agree with octavia for survival

Edited December 1, 2017 by Gilmaesh

[LascarCapable]

il y a une heure, Callback a dit :

DE has been killing camping for years.

DE's aim wasn't to kill "camping". It was to tune down some farming tactics related to a few maps, where people would just farm over and over again just by spamming a single button and not move at all.

[Callback]

2 minutes ago, D20 said:

DE's aim wasn't to kill "camping". It was to tune down some farming tactics related to a few maps, where people would just farm over and over again just by spamming a single button and not move at all.

There were no specific maps for long survivals.  But Mag/Mesa nerfs murdered those runs.

[Vafthrudnir]

1 hour ago, Callback said:

Mag

I reming you all that Mag got nerfed cause Mesa is op.

[Callback]

2 minutes ago, giovanniluca said:

I reming you all that Mag got nerfed cause Mesa is op.

Mag got nerfed because of E Gate, which was a Banshee map.

Edited December 1, 2017 by Callback

[Ventura_Highway]

7 hours ago, D20 said:

Finally, shock needs to stun targets much more reliably, as electric procs will have no stun effect on targets mid animation for some reason, which makes Shock not as reliable as it should be.

I'd rather it have a true stun component along side the shock effect. I remember a lot of situations where I tried to shock a gunner/bombard before getting melee range only for them to break out of it to cast radial blast. And shoot.

 

EDIT: Also why can't they just split the stun and damage parts so that the damage stops at the cap while the stun continues?

Edited December 1, 2017 by Ventura_Highway

[(XBOX)Zweimander]

21 hours ago, giovanniluca said:

An energy return maybe, since they like him to burn energy that much.

He is fishing frame number one.

[Vafthrudnir]

44 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Zweimander said:

He is fishing frame number one.

Ivara pls.

 

1 hour ago, Callback said:

Mag got nerfed because of E Gate, which was a Banshee map.

Ok then why not nerf Banshee.

[Edzhang]

9 hours ago, Ventura_Highway said:

Also why can't they just split the stun and damage parts so that the damage stops at the cap while the stun continues?

Agree on this.. at least we can have opt to make volt a nuker or a crowd controller..

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

23 hours ago, Callback said:

DE has been killing camping for years.  The channel efficiency changes, Greedy Pull being nerfed into the ground, Mesa nerfs, "AFK" penalty that applies even while you're actively playing just for not moving far enough around, Viver destroyed, E Gate destroyed, Draco destroyed, Anything that makes camping in one spot (including in survival missions, wtf?) remotely viable gets immediately trashed by DE.

DE doesnt mind camping as long as you are actively playing their game (moving your cursor around) and grinding the grind. Cc abilities have only become more common and gotten more ridiculous. They added in nullifiers, changed mags greed pull, even nerfed the amount of loot you get from desecrate, making it really just a healing ability, and changed the spawn points, but never touched banshee. You can sit and do the same thing, anywhere, just not for loot. They never change the power of the frame that enables the gameplay, aside from the one and only exception, mirage.

[Svygor]

В 01.12.2017 в 23:26, giovanniluca сказал:

Ok then why not nerf Banshee.

Because Banshee's ult doesn't break anything itself. It suppose to spend energy while active and not let Banshee recieve energy from any source by locking her in one place (and the same logic with Mesa's ult and few other abilities). This "rule" was broken with old greedy pull.

Edited December 2, 2017 by Svygor

[Vafthrudnir]

2 minutes ago, Svygor said:

Because Banshee's ult doesn't break anything itself. It suppose to spend energy while active and not let Banshee recieve energy from any source by locking her in one place (and the same logic with Mesa's ult and few other abilities). This "rule" was broken with old greedy pull.

OK and why not prevent her from gaining energy completely instead of nerfing Mag. They should have nerfed Trinity too or is she the only energy filler allowed?

[Koldraxon-732]

Based on Volt's base description (potent alternative to gunplay), I immediately look to Nidus, who, for lack of any other way to describe him, IS a weapon.

My Spoiler contains a full revisit suggestion that DE should honestly read over.

Spoiler

 

What I mean is, Nidus can forgo weapons entirely (well, maybe not Hirudo or a health restoring configured melee) and absolutely rely on his powers on their own due to how he can regain and just keep getting energy from taking damage. In addition his powers actually kill.

Volt, like many others, is currently, to me, in a place where he's more of a support than an alternative to gunplay. His powers (Shock, Speed, Shield and Overload) and passive fail to achieve what Nidus is beyond-excelling at. Entirely.

His Passive:

Spoiler

 

For example. I run around a bit, build up the static charge, then hit an enemy with one bullet from a Soma Prime clip, thus wasting the damage buildup, or use Shock, only to find that the damage isn't enough.

How this can be changed is as follows; Volt running around and dealing damage to enemies via Shock or while affected by Speed would add to a Voltage Meter, which is basically a reskinned Mutation Stack but affects Volt differently.

The more stacks Volt attains, the faster he moves, the higher the damage (and damage cap), the faster his shields recharge, and his melee attack/reload speeds are increased.

Volt's speed, then, when recast with about 10 stacks, makes you go 10 times faster. It gets crazy, but Volt isn't the most durable. 

Short ver: Electrical version of Mutation Stacks, affects shield regen, power dmg, range, efficiency and dmg cap, weapon reload/melee speed, and movement speed.
Oh, and it decays by 1 every second you're not using powers (decay rate is slower with duration and efficiency mods; when decay begins, you regen energy very quickly).

 

His 1 (Shock):

Spoiler

 

Right now, it's useless except for trying to spread the Overload stun proc.

To fix this, Shock could act like an Exalted weapon (like Chroma's Spectral Scream, but you hold it to sustain it rather than tap it to turn it on or off; it would drain energy to use, and is basically an Amprex in function; if I were to compare the intent of what I'd do to his one I'd refer to Destiny's Warlock Stormcall super and how you basically Darth Sideous electrify everyone in your way) and the new passive would sort out the rest, making the only change needed being to make it significantly less expensive to cast (1/10 cost) and make it 'full auto' (channeled cast with some auto-tracking due to electricity),. 

Though the Conclave side would need much rebalancing to accommodate, this would 'flip the switch' and cause a lightning storm.

Short ver: lower power cost significantly, allow it to be fired continuously. Successful kills add to passive (say, 10% per kill, with the Volt Meter being a max of 500% and higher if duration and energy cap mods are used).

 

His 2 (Speed):

Spoiler

 

It's used for blending or running faster.

While the passive I would introduce would fix this partially, I believe Speed should have an electrical damage aura and would bring with it an enhanced version of Volt's current passive (which would instead act like this; distance crossed would be damage buff, and distance is also duration of the buff, so it doesn't get used up instantly) as well as enabling all damage from Volt to have a small amount of electricity damage due to the passive effect.

This would synergize this power with his 1st.

Short ver: Add old passive with new settings; distance crossed isn't directly turned into damage, instead distance = time + damage buff while Speed is active. Add an electricity aura that stuns enemies Volt runs past. Maybe add an ability cast speed boost instead of boosting melee as that is handled by the new passive I'd give him if I could.

 

His 3 (Shield):

Spoiler

 

While it at first seems out of place, it has its uses.

Introduce a passive effect which is, when Volt casts Shock at the shield, then to another shield, the shields connect and their durations combine. Shocking it again refreshes the duration. Four shields can be connected to eachother at any time. Picking up even one of the shields will cause the shields to break and energy spent on them be refunded.

Short ver: Shields can be connected to eachother for more duration and are coverage via Volt's 1, and can be charged up via a dose of Volt's 1. Picking up shield breaks circuit.

 

His 4 (Overload):

Spoiler

 

It works as a crude crowd control method, but it isn't the best.

While the new passive would enhance it, the AOE Overload would cover should gain a 'floor is electrified' effect - like the electrified water on Sealabs - but with significantly more damage to enemies. This would theoretically kill everything hit by Overload, if not the afterShock from Volt.

Short ver: Floor is electrified. Enemies will die from it or face continued electrocution.

 

In my opinion these changes will make Volt the alternative to gunplay that his 'frame description says while enabling his powers to scale with enemies. At the very least this will put him up with Excalibur Exalted Blade or Radial Blind configurations in terms of effectiveness, and make him worth using again.

 

 

[Svygor]

5 минут назад, giovanniluca сказал:

why not prevent her from gaining energy completely instead of nerfing Mag

I'm not in DE dev team so I don't know which difficulties they have faced but may be it was something like restoring energy through energy spheres is more about picking up loot than about energy regen and nerfing picking up mechanics for warframes with channeling abilities is difficult and will break other frames. Anyway I don't think that mistake with one augment is the reason to nerf few other abilities affected by this mistake - it's right to nerf augment because it's the source of that problem.

12 минут назад, giovanniluca сказал:

They should have nerfed Trinity too or is she the only energy filler allowed?

We are talking about ability to regen energy while channeling abilities are active. Trinity can't provide energy for warframes while their channeling abilities are active - so what's the point of metioning her there? And she isn't only energy filler - there are few more: Harrow, zenuric and energy restores.

 

P.S. It looks a bit wrong to discuss Mag in Volt theme. Let's find Mag theme for that =)

[Svygor]

1 час назад, Koldraxon-732 сказал:

My Spoiler contains a full revisit suggestion

I don't know for now what I think about your active abilities suggestions (Sorry, I didn't read it for now) but I absolutely love the idea of charges and think it'll be enough to make Volt great warframe so lets discuss it! =)

And I think you should make a theme about changing Volt's passive to charges =) 

1 час назад, Koldraxon-732 сказал:

Volt running around and dealing damage to enemies via Shock or while affected by Speed would add to a Voltage Meter

it's toooooo same to Nidus' mechanics. I think it'll be better to add charges when electricity procs (counting procs by weapons as well as procs by abilities). About 1/5 or 1/10 of charge for every electricity proc.

1 час назад, Koldraxon-732 сказал:

The more stacks Volt attains, the faster he moves, the higher the damage (and damage cap), the faster his shields recharge, and his melee attack/reload speeds are increased.

There are 2 things that confuse me a bit:

1) Speed, melee atack, reload speed bonus is a lot like Volt's 2nd so you should remove his 2nd completely and replace it with something new. Personally I want to see some kind of teleport for him (for example while his 2nd is active you teleport for some distance or to aimed point instead of rolling).

2) There are too much buffs in this list. But I think that it'll be ok if you'll be able to charge abilities by spending charges to make them even more powerfull or to deal damage based on % of enemy health (this way all of his abilities will be chargable like Hydroid's 1st and 4th but they will spend charges instead of spending more energy).

For example shock with 0 charges deal 100 dmg, shock with 10 charges - 1000 dmg, charged shock with 10 charges - 1000 dmg + 5% of enemy health (not affected by power strength) + spend 1 charge.

Edited December 2, 2017 by Svygor