Gunplay is completely overshadowed by Powers

[(PSN)Unstar]

I wouldn't mind if powers overshadowed guns.  Lots of games have guns.  Very few games have Warframe's cool powers.

But that said, I'm going to have to agree with what everyone else is saying.  In it's current state, there are very few Warframes that can succeed exclusively by using powers.  And just because these Warframes exist doesn't lesson weapons' status as incredibly powerful and useful tools.

[Cifrer]

Maybe the problem is with how powers scale?

O.P early on to either nearly useless or only situationally useful later.

Perhaps they should to tweak it so that they're less useful early but scale better?

[Maercurial]

vor 5 Minuten schrieb Cifrer:

Maybe the problem is with how powers scale?

O.P early on to either nearly useless or only situationally useful later.

Perhaps they should to tweak it so that they're less useful early but scale better?

How to do that tho? More percenage based damage? The Problem I could see with that: Easily OP later on, or Underpowered early on.

Anyway, are powers really that much of a problem against low levels? The only powers that seems to fall into the "sometimes problematic" category are Embers World on Fire, Saryn's Spore Nuke and Banshee's Resonating Quake, because those are the easiest powers to clear trash mobs with minimal effort if you just want to get a mission done quickly. And well, sometimes you just want to get a mission done quickly, so these Powers seem okay overall in what they're doing.

The problem is more an issue of players with different objectives being mixed together in a pub. I can see where someone would be annoyed if he wanted to take it slow with Ivara and suddenly *poof* EMBER joins and burns everything away. As long as people want to run pubs and not with a premade groups or solo, that problem will exist no matter what.

[xXFlippyXx]

Gunplay isn't overshadowed by powers. It's completely overshadowed by melee weapons

When you have an atterax with primed reach and maiming strike there is little to no reason to use guns at all.

Atterax with maiming strike doesn't need aim or ammunition and still is stronger than most guns in burst and even more so in the sustained areas 

There isn't much that goes to that point of imbalance. Mesa and excalibur are the only ones that come to my mind.

[Daziri]

7 hours ago, -Jehuty- said:

There is something in Warframe that really grinds my gears, something that i consider the biggest flaw in the gameplay, Gunplay is completely overshadowed by Warframe powers in the endgame. You could literally press 4 to win (Mesa, Banshee, Ember, Equinox, the list can go on forever...) in the entire mission without having to shoot a single bullet, encouraging boring and lazy gameplay.

While i recognize that this is partly player's fault for choosing to cheese the game i want to ask Devs something. Is this how we are meant to play? Why guns and weapons in general become so irrelevant in later game compared to Powers?

No idea what you're talking about. This can happen in low level missions. Try again later on. There are some exceptionally good warframes whose powers are strong even in late; Mesa, Saryn etc. But no way in hell is this game being overshadowed by powers. And tbh Powers SHOULD have a major impact ingame play. I mean we are magic space ninjas. Not just pew pew.

[Maercurial]

vor 7 Minuten schrieb xXFlippyXx:

Gunplay isn't overshadowed by powers. It's completely overshadowed by melee weapons

When you have an atterax with primed reach and maiming strike there is little to no reason to use guns at all.

Atterax with maiming strike doesn't need aim or ammunition and still is stronger than most guns in burst and even more so in the sustained areas 

There isn't much that goes to that point of imbalance. Mesa and excalibur are the only ones that come to my mind.

Despite Atterax and other Melees there's still a lot of useful Primaries and Secondaries around, and with the ones that fall off really hard compared to those, that's more an issue of them needing a buff (or Riven Mod) instead of the other way around.

I'd say Primaries and Secondaries will eventually need a (slower scaling) Combo Counter Mod as well to put them overall on the same level as melee again. 

I wouldn't mind if Melee stays somewhat dominant tho.

Edited December 3, 2017 by Maercurial

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

3 hours ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

Which actually requires Secondary weapon mod maturity.

And LoS within 50m

[phoenix1992]

"End game" (as much as you can say that in Warframe with poker face, since people have wildly different perspectives on it) is usually combination between your powers and weapons, not you spamming stuff.

Considering Mesa the "darling" that gets away scot free each time balancing is mentioned - go bring it to the fan club, I am sure they will understand you.

[TheBrightKing]

Il y a 8 heures, Nakrast a dit :

If by end game you mean lv 20, then yes.
Good luck killing high lvl enemies with powers only as Ember, Equinox (you need to understand how her powers work, before posting) and Banshee.
Mesa, i can agree with to some extent.

actually equinox is pretty useful for that task...

[Midrib]

30 minutes ago, mstriker said:

actually equinox is pretty useful for that task...

How are you going to charge her maim without weapons? Maim charge is based on the HP & shields of enemies killed inside of it, she doesn't have any other damaging abilities so unless you plan on standing around hoping that your teammates charge it for you, you have to rely on your arsenal to charge it.

Which i find hilarious how the OP decided to bring up Equinox, a frame that needs weapons to do damage.

Edited December 3, 2017 by Midrib

[Maercurial]

vor 55 Minuten schrieb phoenix1992:

Considering Mesa the "darling" that gets away scot free each time balancing is mentioned - go bring it to the fan club, I am sure they will understand you.

That's because Mesa actually is pretty balanced overall, being a sitting duck that cannot move while doing her DPS is a massive downside that basically dooms her later on without a good team able to protect her.

And early on you might as well use an Ember for trashmobs, as that one doesn't require you to stand still. 

[TheBrightKing]

il y a une heure, Midrib a dit :

How are you going to charge her maim without weapons? Maim charge is based on the HP & shields of enemies killed inside of it, she doesn't have any other damaging abilities so unless you plan on standing around hoping that your teammates charge it for you, you have to rely on your arsenal to charge it.

Which i find hilarious how the OP decided to bring up Equinox, a frame that needs weapons to do damage.

well yeah thats true, but once you charge it your powers are pretty useful. of course no frame is good in end game without weapons.

[phoenix1992]

50 minutes ago, Maercurial said:

That's because Mesa actually is pretty balanced overall, being a sitting duck that cannot move while doing her DPS is a massive downside that basically dooms her later on without a good team able to protect her.

And early on you might as well use an Ember for trashmobs, as that one doesn't require you to stand still. 

The "Mesa Darling" situation is something more than people attempting a turret mode 24/7, which in all fairness is a low level way of playing so I really don't know why you even mentioned it. Or you assume I am talking about people sitting on top of objectives and playing shooty bang bang with peace maker?

But hey thank you for tuning in.

Edit : Wrong name of the ability, dunno why I am thinking of Redeemer so much those days =.=
 

Edited December 3, 2017 by phoenix1992

[Lion]

4 hours ago, Neo3602 said:

Excal is less 'press 4(once) to win" and more press 4 and the E a whole ton to win.

Thats why you bind melee to your mouse wheel.

[zornyan]

4 hours ago, Cifrer said:

Maybe the problem is with how powers scale?

O.P early on to either nearly useless or only situationally useful later.

Perhaps they should to tweak it so that they're less useful early but scale better?

Sounds like it would make frames used less, I mean the star chart, and 90% of content is what? Sub lvl 40? That’s where most content is balanced around, so frames like ember are capable of actually killing things (as opposed to lvl100+ where she’s a below average CC)

 

but as levels shift it goes from damage to CC, I mean how often do you see vauban/nyx for example at low levels? Barely ever because it’s not needed, yet high level content their hugely powerful because of the complete map lockdown they can offer.

 

the OP is also ignore the many frames that serve to buff gunplay

 

chroma with his vex armor

Volt with his shield

harrow 2/4

rhino + roar

mesa with shatter shield and shooting gallery

mirage with any sort of AOE weapon is hilarious 

even a defy wukong

 

just as an example, many builds are based around buffing gunplay. Wether it’s by reducing reload and increasing fire rate (Harrow) crit damage with volt or just a flat huge damage buff like chroma

[(PSN)Chel-El]

YouTube has videos on building weapons- they have their own science with critical damage multipliers or status effects and their chance of getting those 

Start adding elements in the mix with their own status effects chance, then weapons become like a superpowered frame too. 

 

[TheEnderboss]

13 hours ago, Nakrast said:

If by end game you mean lv 20, then yes.
Good luck killing high lvl enemies with powers only as Ember, Equinox (you need to understand how her powers work, before posting) and Banshee.
Mesa, i can agree with to some extent.

i kill lvl 70 enemies with world on fire in a few seconds

[Cubewano]

13 hours ago, Klavinmour said:

Mesa is a weapon based Warframe, exalted weapons are theoretically the most powerful in the game yet have clear draw backs such as not being able to benefit from all weapon mods, especially Rivens.

Most powerful may be an exaggeration, Exalted weapons default into the dps category so yes they wind up being presenting as heavy damage abilities, but support/cc/buffs also have their own values that can equal if not trump that of just raw dps at times. There are also dps frames outside Exalted such as equinox, nidus, banshee, and mag who do definitely can compete on the same field as such frames.  

Edited December 4, 2017 by Cubewano

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

This post is wrong...so wrong...what game have you been playing and what shifty mods have you been stuck with? Weapons far outdamage abilities 9/10, and most powers only serve to boost their damage or cc enemies so they cant move or fight back, more easy weapon kills. Very few warframe powers scale in damage, or do any meaningful damage to begin with.

[Imniscor]

People saying melee is superior to gunplay are absolutely wrong.
1. Firearms (Tigris variants for example) can instantly do > 2 billions damage from the safety of distance and can make any boss instantly go to next stage (because they can't be OHKOed).
2. The possible instant damage with a melee weapon is under < 10 million, and even so, it's a finisher move.
3. Melee users have to risk themselves into being one shotted - unless they use invulnerability frames/toggles or a 7000 health Inaros with 1300 defense and 2 sets of rank 4 arcane graces.
4. Many of melee mechanics cannot be activated/used because someone one shot your target from miles away before you could do anything. That Life Strike you were expecting to use to recover your health? Na-na. That Ground Finisher to trigger Entropy Detonation? Nope. That Covert Letality? Denied. Want to throw a Halikar to disarm the target? Well it's dead before you charge E. A weapon with nice, cool looking combo moves? Too slow. Everything is dead before you start the combo.

Melee is OP. Gunplay is waay higher in the OPness scale. And I think it's unfair because we are ninjas and this is as much a fighting game as it is a shooter.
If I wanted guns to be this OP I'd rather play Battlefield.

Edited December 4, 2017 by Imniscor

[-Temp0-]

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There is something in Warframe that really grinds my gears, something that i consider the biggest flaw in the gameplay, Gunplay is completely overshadowed by Warframe powers in the endgame. You could literally press 4 to win (Mesa, Banshee, Ember, Equinox, the list can go on forever...) in the entire mission without having to shoot a single bullet, encouraging boring and lazy gameplay.

Someone who says that never actually seen "end game" gameplay.

Sortie stage 3 isn't the "end game" gameplay. Ember in this list makes it even less believable.