Eidolon Teralyst Way too weak.

[RistN]

There is no boss in this game that you can kill harder than Teralyst.

Quills syndicate is tightly connected to him and so are resources that drop from him.He is also available only at night and for limited duration so its not like you can do this whenever you want.Well organized team who know how this is done can do it quick,yes,but it is a nightmare finding good team and time limitation is making things even worse.

Making him more harder to kill is just going to make farming even tougher than it is.

DE did mention the idea of making some Uber Teralyst soon btw.

Also without some in-game notifications of what time of the day is on Cetus and remaining time till next cycle things are further more complicated.I now there are smart phones and fan made sites that show this but still...

[zornyan]

On 15/12/2017 at 10:01 AM, YUNoJump said:

Read as: "Chroma is the antithesis of balance".

Before people realised they could just one-shot the limbs with Chroma, it was a good fight. If DE wants to make bosses have tangible health pools without invincibility phases clogging up 90% of the fight, they need to do something about Chroma's damage output, because if they don't then it is borderline impossible to make a boss that has enough health to withstand Chroma, but with low enough health that anyone other than Chroma can even put a dent in them.

You do know there’s multiple other frames that can do the same thing right?

 

i can take 50% of a limbs health per shot with 

harrow

volt

rhino

octavia

fairly consistently, with my rubico or vectis prime, (so a total of 1 second longer than chroma) we’ve done 7 caps a night without chroma just as easy as with in our squad.

 

its honestly not that hard to annihilate a limb in fractions of a second with a good setup.

[(XBOX)MerlyBR]

just dont bring a chroma and he will be strong

[MirageKnight]

On ‎12‎/‎15‎/‎2017 at 6:04 AM, Neptlude said:

the current Teralyst is a low level... They will release stronger and tougher version later on... The current one is for newbies...

Correct. There will be two more Eidolon Teralysts that will be released soon. Apparently these ones will be unlocked somehow. See most recent dev stream.

In addition, I believe there will be another type of giant, powerful Eidolon Sentient that can fly...

 

On a related note, I think this thread serves to underscore how ridiculously powerful the devs have allowed us to become thanks to lazy / poor balancing of weapons, mods and 'Frames...and how it's bred an expectation and a false need for so called "challenge" from super-enemies. Yet introducing even more powerful super / uber bosses is ultimately pointless because 1. Try-hards and Glory-seekers will still be able to cheese even THAT level of content and 2. Try-hards and Glory-seekers will still ask for even more power and even more "challenge"...and DE will listen to them anyway.

DE's created a monster with near god-like potential. And it's us.

[YUNoJump]

13 hours ago, zornyan said:

You do know there’s multiple other frames that can do the same thing right?

 

i can take 50% of a limbs health per shot with 

harrow

volt

rhino

octavia

fairly consistently, with my rubico or vectis prime, (so a total of 1 second longer than chroma) we’ve done 7 caps a night without chroma just as easy as with in our squad.

 

its honestly not that hard to annihilate a limb in fractions of a second with a good setup.

Chroma is definitely the best example of ridiculous damage, but as you say there are other options as well. If there are say, 7 or 8 frames in the game with the potential to cheese the eidolons through abilities, that means the rest of the frames can't. Because of that, buffing the Eidolon's durability will potentially make the power frames' DPS more sensible, but it will also make the fight damn near unfinishable with the rest of the Warframe arsenal. I don't want to be forced to play particular frames just to make any progress. I'd say that if something is to be done about Eidolon durability, it should be done in such a way that it doesn't affect the fight when power frames aren't involved. Honestly the DPS boost from some of these frames is still waaaay to overkill for any sensible part of the game (eidolons are supposed to be the toughest enemy in the game and they get oneshot), so I doubt a nerf to their buffing would be that painful if done right.

Add to that the fact that you can stack most of these frames together to boost even more damage, and it becomes incredibly difficult to find a middle ground between power frame and non-power frame Eidolon fights.

[DiabolusUrsus]

12 hours ago, MirageKnight said:

Correct. There will be two more Eidolon Teralysts that will be released soon. Apparently these ones will be unlocked somehow. See most recent dev stream.

In addition, I believe there will be another type of giant, powerful Eidolon Sentient that can fly...

 

On a related note, I think this thread serves to underscore how ridiculously powerful the devs have allowed us to become thanks to lazy / poor balancing of weapons, mods and 'Frames...and how it's bred an expectation and a false need for so called "challenge" from super-enemies. Yet introducing even more powerful super / uber bosses is ultimately pointless because 1. Try-hards and Glory-seekers will still be able to cheese even THAT level of content and 2. Try-hards and Glory-seekers will still ask for even more power and even more "challenge"...and DE will listen to them anyway.

DE's created a monster with near god-like potential. And it's us.

100% agreed!

Warframe plays like Halo Firefight with player damage set to 400% with bottomless clip enabled.

It's entertaining for a bit, but it gets old fast.

Power is always more fun when it is balanced, IMO... Having a reasonable limit on it prevents the experience from becoming too flat.

Warframe's power fantasy falls apart because the players are oddly TOO powerful... And the game still tries to challenge them.

[zornyan]

3 hours ago, YUNoJump said:

Chroma is definitely the best example of ridiculous damage, but as you say there are other options as well. If there are say, 7 or 8 frames in the game with the potential to cheese the eidolons through abilities, that means the rest of the frames can't. Because of that, buffing the Eidolon's durability will potentially make the power frames' DPS more sensible, but it will also make the fight damn near unfinishable with the rest of the Warframe arsenal. I don't want to be forced to play particular frames just to make any progress. I'd say that if something is to be done about Eidolon durability, it should be done in such a way that it doesn't affect the fight when power frames aren't involved. Honestly the DPS boost from some of these frames is still waaaay to overkill for any sensible part of the game (eidolons are supposed to be the toughest enemy in the game and they get oneshot), so I doubt a nerf to their buffing would be that painful if done right.

Add to that the fact that you can stack most of these frames together to boost even more damage, and it becomes incredibly difficult to find a middle ground between power frame and non-power frame Eidolon fights.

I disagree, the Teralyst can easily be solo’d by any frame currently, as it stands it’s just a weak boss, using a premade team should be necessary, if you want any semblance of difficult content. That’s part of asking for a challenging fight, it would be like trying to raid in WOW withot dedicated DPS.

 

DE shouldn’t cater to people that want to bring a vauban, a nyx, nekros and a frost as an eidolon hunting party,  they should be looking at teams with damage buffers, using the correct elemental weapons etc

 

if the bad group can’t do the content, then they merely need to adjust, just like how in trials there are dedicated and necessary frames, or in a sortie there are go to frames for certain mission types

[YUNoJump]

1 hour ago, zornyan said:

I disagree, the Teralyst can easily be solo’d by any frame currently, as it stands it’s just a weak boss, using a premade team should be necessary, if you want any semblance of difficult content. That’s part of asking for a challenging fight, it would be like trying to raid in WOW withot dedicated DPS.

 

DE shouldn’t cater to people that want to bring a vauban, a nyx, nekros and a frost as an eidolon hunting party,  they should be looking at teams with damage buffers, using the correct elemental weapons etc

 

if the bad group can’t do the content, then they merely need to adjust, just like how in trials there are dedicated and necessary frames, or in a sortie there are go to frames for certain mission types

If the Teralyst can be solo'd by any frame then I'd definitely say that the Teralyst itself needs an overall durability buff, but that still doesn't solve the oneshot vs fair-fight issue. If the Eidolon had enough health to make normal builds challenged by it, then power builds would still wipe the floor.

There's a difference between requiring a premade team and only 7 or 8 frames being useful at all. There are already several frames that add absolutely nothing to the fight; and another several that only serve minimal purpose. I don't want to have to bring a strict set of frames just to be able to complete the fight at all. Also consider the players who have to ration their slots or haven't got every single frame; a high-level-but-not-quite-100%-complete player might only have one buffer frame in their inventory. And what if players don't like the way that their buffer frame plays? I personally despise Octavia's DDR buffing mechanics. The Teralyst fight's main focus (and entry pass) is the use of Operator combat, not a bunch of buffer frames. 

[OoKeNnEtHoO]

I think this is unnecessary.

It is not really that easy.

You just got used to it.

Before you made your amps and before you knew about the lures or Chroma's damage ability on it, I am pretty sure you did not think this way.

The thing is buffing something because it has become easy after knowing the best way to make it easy doesn't mean the task was easy at all in the first place and there are tons of people (veterans or not) out there that are new to the whole Eidolon thing and this will just make things worse for them.

 

Another thing is that Warframe is almost always evolving so if you think a boss like the Teraryst is bad, these were what we faced 4 years ago:

 

Edited December 17, 2017 by OoKeNnEtHoO

[Azamagon]

This really just emphasizes how bad designs snowball on each other: Chroma's Vex Armor + Selfdamage on weapons + Absurd percentual values in general.

I mean, if Chroma can't get hurt, he only deals normal damage. Which makes selfdamage a GOOD thing on him... Chroma is either useless, or overpowered, simply based on him TAKING damage (something that SHOULD be a penalty overall). His design is simply counterintuitive to good gameplay.

And then when he DOES get his hands on such scenarios where it is actually useful (such as the Teralyst fight), it makes the rest of his lackluster kit even MORE lackluster. Too much power lays in Vex Armor (not the only 'frame being a 1-trick pony though), too much power in the numbers, too poor design with selfdamage.

All 3 needs a good look at (Chroma's kit, selfdamage and numerical values in general)

[Valaska]

Uh, the issue frankly is just Chroma. If you remove Chroma it still takes a few minutes to bring this Eidolon down, which is fair seeing how much of a pain in the &#! it is to get standing with the quills without cheesing it.

Fun fight, its just a shame so much is content locked behind it. It makes a lot more sense to bring Chroma and a few others down abit instead of buffing the Eidolon so the frames people already can't use are even yet more screwed in the fight. Seriously every frame should be viable for all content.

Edited December 17, 2017 by Valaska

[MirageKnight]

4 hours ago, YUNoJump said:

If the Teralyst can be solo'd by any frame then I'd definitely say that the Teralyst itself needs an overall durability buff

No, being able to easily solo / trivialize a Teralyst simply means that at least one component of your loadout is overpowered and needs a balance pass to keep things reasonably challenging.

1 hour ago, Valaska said:

Seriously every frame should be viable for all content.

Within reason.

5 hours ago, zornyan said:

DE shouldn’t cater to people that want to bring a vauban, a nyx, nekros and a frost as an eidolon hunting party,  they should be looking at teams with damage buffers, using the correct elemental weapons etc

I agree that bringing weapons with optimized damage types vs the enemy you intend to fight should always be a thing. With regard to what 'Frame to bring to a Teralyst  fight...? I think a Frost could be useful, if only to provide protection for allies and help deal with Vomalysts intent on healing the Teralyst.

[AperoBeltaTwo]

remove the forced operator shield mechanic-thing and it will just be another bulletsponge. It's not bad per se, but to make the bosses work in Warframe you gotta take into account core gameplay mechanics while designing them and that never happens.

Edited December 17, 2017 by AperoBeltaTwo

[PatternistSlave]

Make the Terrylst harder and then everyone that didn't have the right frames to make them easy originally and had to build those frames now have a much harder time getting the same stuff as players who did.  As it is if it takes a specific group to make something "easy" that generally means it's hard enough (sorties for example).  Too hard and you're getting into content no one will do (the raids for example).  They're releasing new Eidalons and I'm guessing they'll be harder.  Just be patient.  Personally as someone that likes doing stuff with my clanmates who despite having played since beta aren't obsessed with the meta and min/maxing the flavor of the month?  Terrylsts are reasonably challenging.

[Yazeth]

Just wait for the new Eidolons to come, they should be a new challenge.

My only fear is that DE will nerf them once they get released due to player complaint of difficulty. This has happened in the past, as with Corrupted MOAs and the Grineer Manic back in the day, which I thought were fair challenges since they only destroyed you once they got into melee range.

[(XBOX)JACK BURT0N LSG]

I agree wholeheartedly. DE, you need to make the Eidolons and all boss encounters at least... 7 times harder than they are now. In fact, the Eidolons should get extra damage resistance if Chroma is in play.

[MirageKnight]

3 hours ago, (Xbox One)JACK BURT0N LSG said:

In fact, the Eidolons should get extra damage resistance if Chroma is in play.

As opposed to doing the logical thing and fixing Chroma so he's not quite so overpowered in certain instances. That makes so much more sense.  /s

5 hours ago, PatternistSlave said:

Make the Terrylst harder and then everyone that didn't have the right frames to make them easy originally and had to build those frames now have a much harder time getting the same stuff as players who did.

Pretty much. Start catering to the meta crowd by making the existing Teralyst "more of a challenge" and you wind up excluding / punishing players that could care less about meta-builds.

5 hours ago, PatternistSlave said:

Terrylsts are reasonably challenging.

Agreed. The regular Teralyst is a tough nut to crack but definitely beatable with non-meta builds and good teamwork by players that know what they're doing. 

[ExplosiveBolts]

Congratulations, you're getting two new eidolons. What are you complaining about again?

[(XBOX)JACK BURT0N LSG]

6 hours ago, MirageKnight said:

As opposed to doing the logical thing and fixing Chroma so he's not quite so overpowered in certain instances. That makes so much more sense.  /s

I was being sarcastic. I actually stopped playing Warframe because of Eidolons, I only stop in to be a sarcastic as$ and to see if I should bother coming back.

Personally, I'd love to see them ratchet up the difficulty and complexity because it will only prove my point when players start to fall off because of it. Happens to every game that bases design choices around "hardcore/veteran gamers" constant complaints of "there's no challenge"

I've already re-invested my time and money elsewhere. Don't mind me, DE certainly won't.

[Iccotak]

1. maybe you're overpowered 
2. they are adding even bigger and harder versions to Eidolon

[Diponegoro]

The current teralyst  is pretty fair for the new player.

DE should make the new teralyst have the same damage adaption like the conculyst and stalker.

which triggered each time the part got destroyed.

or add elemental resistance similar to the sortie mission.

 

 

[Valaska]

7 hours ago, Diponegoro said:

The current teralyst  is pretty fair for the new player.

DE should make the new teralyst have the same damage adaption like the conculyst and stalker.

which triggered each time the part got destroyed.

or add elemental resistance similar to the sortie mission.

 

 

That's a pretty crappy mechanic. Phases forcing players to react actively are better, not just blanket disable X thing lazily.

[Eirshy]

I find this amusing. "I got the loot from the monster and now I'm too good at killing the monster!"

No. You are now armed with experience and stronger weaponry. You know to bring pure Radiation, and are no longer using a Mote amp. You bring the frames that have buffs that actually work on Operators, can block magnetic procs and/or damage, and can keep the lures alive.

You've improvised. You've adapted. You've overcome.

Terry doesn't need a buff. Terry needs a big brother.

 

The Megalyst is coming soon.
Until then, why don't you try to focus on getting your regular group's TTK down to under 6 minutes, and find more frames that are "viable" for Eidolon hunting.

 

On 12/17/2017 at 9:32 AM, Yazeth said:

Just wait for the new Eidolons to come, they should be a new challenge.

My only fear is that DE will nerf them once they get released due to player complaint of difficulty. This has happened in the past, as with Corrupted MOAs and the Grineer Manic back in the day, which I thought were fair challenges since they only destroyed you once they got into melee range.

I'm sorry did you just say at-release Manic was "fair"? Invulns outside of a small hitbox on his shoulder, only decloaks to attack (so you get a few seconds to notice him and shoot that small hitbox on his shoulder), and then, if he survives his attack, he cloaks again and runs off to HEAL BACK TO FULL AGAIN.

No, original Manics were abject horse manure- especially back when LoR first came out.

 

Not sure what nerf happened to Corrupted MOAs. Did they change their attack drone or something?

Edited December 18, 2017 by TheBlueJelly

[Nazrethim]

23 minutes ago, TheBlueJelly said:

I'm sorry did you just say at-release Manic was "fair"? Invulns outside of a small hitbox on his shoulder, only decloaks to attack (so you get a few seconds to notice him and shoot that small hitbox on his shoulder), and then, if he survives his attack, he cloaks again and runs off to HEAL BACK TO FULL AGAIN.

No, original Manics were abject horse manure- especially back when LoR first came out.

Well, sans the hitbox thing I think they were fine. Specially how deadly they were if you approached them like you do every enemy. They also came alone.

Then LoR rolled around and, being the lvl inflated cheesefest shoddily assembled mess it is, pitched you against six to a dozen Manics. So the manics were nerfed instead of, y'know, make actual challenging encounters.

[Eirshy]

5 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

Well, sans the hitbox thing I think they were fine. Specially how deadly they were if you approached them like you do every enemy. They also came alone.

Then LoR rolled around and, being the lvl inflated cheesefest shoddily assembled mess it is, pitched you against six to a dozen Manics. So the manics were nerfed instead of, y'know, make actual challenging encounters.

My complaint with them was always how hard it was to kill them. If I was at the helm on the nerfing committee we woulda just removed the invuln hitbox thing and the healing. The surprise knifesex thing wasn't what made them stupid, it was how you had a split second to 360-noscope-oneshot them, because they'd heal off any attrition you deal.

LoR just made it obvious how badly designed they were. They were bs before LoR came out.

Edited December 18, 2017 by TheBlueJelly