With Khora just around the corner, Chroma needs an actual passive now more than ever.

[wffls1]

First it was Octavia with both a Mandachord that directly affects how abilities function and an energy regen passive. Now Khora will have both a moddable kavat and the ability to change physical damage types in mission. And who knows, Khora might get an actual passive beyond those two. Please, DE, can Chroma get an actual passive now? If anything, it should just be the ability to change elements in mission, just like Khora.

[Aeon94]

Yes , we waited so long for an actual passive and ability tweaks for Chroma. Please DE ; - ;

[Dark_Chroma_Prime]

The only thing i realy want for chroma

[Kalec]

Chroma will probably get a look at and some changes when he gets primed, which won't happen before summer 2018, fall if Limbo gets primed first (if it's those 2 frames which should according to release order). Before that nothing will happen, at least very unlikely.

[motorfirebox]

Here's a great idea for a passive: +50 health, unmoddable, if he doesn't have a melee equipped.

[TKDancer]

2 hours ago, motorfirebox said:

Here's a great idea for a passive: +50 health, unmoddable, if he doesn't have a melee equipped.

what that literally doesnt fit him at all, hes not mesa

 

a good chroma passive would be immunity to some statuses, like slash

[Dark_Chroma_Prime]

vor einer Stunde schrieb TKDancer:

what that literally doesnt fit him at all, hes not mesa

 

a good chroma passive would be immunity to some statuses, like slash

Something like getting attacked than the other player would fit as passive

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

That was a horrible idea...the 50 health thing, the worst...

[MJ12]

Dragons typically are shown guarding treasure hoards, and associated with greed and wealth.

I think a good passive for Chroma would be 'regain energy and health upon credit pickups.'

[ACULonSeer]

On 12/15/2017 at 3:14 PM, wffls1 said:

First it was Octavia with both a Mandachord that directly affects how abilities function and an energy regen passive. Now Khora will have both a moddable kavat and the ability to change physical damage types in mission. And who knows, Khora might get an actual passive beyond those two. Please, DE, can Chroma get an actual passive now? If anything, it should just be the ability to change elements in mission, just like Khora.

the problem with this is that youre kinda supposed to build chroma around the element of choice, and the build will probably differ between all 3 elements. if he switches elements, he would have to switch mod configurations too right?

[Dark_Chroma_Prime]

vor 22 Minuten schrieb ACULonSeer:

the problem with this is that youre kinda supposed to build chroma around the element of choice, and the build will probably differ between all 3 elements. if he switches elements, he would have to switch mod configurations too right?

if you build chroma right, there is no need for switching mod configs

and he got 4 elements not 3

[TKDancer]

1 hour ago, ACULonSeer said:

the problem with this is that youre kinda supposed to build chroma around the element of choice, and the build will probably differ between all 3 elements. if he switches elements, he would have to switch mod configurations too right?

this is literally not true? at all???????????

 

any good chroma build only needs 3 things, regardless of element: armor, power strength and power duration anything else u can fit in is a bonus.

 

plus 2 out of the 4 elements are not good, and 1 of the good elements is still considerably better than the other

[ACULonSeer]

10 minutes ago, TKDancer said:

this is literally not true? at all???????????

 

any good chroma build only needs 3 things, regardless of element: armor, power strength and power duration anything else u can fit in is a bonus.

 

plus 2 out of the 4 elements are not good, and 1 of the good elements is still considerably better than the other

Wow I was kinda hoping chroma would be free of the elemental inconsistencies of the current damage system. I'm gonna guess his good ones are corrosive for armor removal and cold for his defense?

[TKDancer]

1 minute ago, ACULonSeer said:

Wow I was kinda hoping chroma would be free of the elemental inconsistencies of the current damage system. I'm gonna guess his good ones are corrosive for armor removal and cold for his defense?

..corrosive? his elements are toxic for weapon handling speed, cold for bonus armor and physically reflecting projectiles, heat for more health, and electricity for reflecting a multiplied value of the dmg he takes in the form shocks

[ACULonSeer]

8 minutes ago, TKDancer said:

..corrosive? his elements are toxic for weapon handling speed, cold for bonus armor and physically reflecting projectiles, heat for more health, and electricity for reflecting a multiplied value of the dmg he takes in the form shocks

Oh it's toxin not corrosive? Sorry XD I was mistaken.

Anyways, in a perfect world i think all of his elements would be of equal effectiveness and maybe require different builds depending on element choice. In that case switching elements would have to switch builds as well. 

That's just my 2 Plat on it

[MrForz]

A passive? Huh, I'd look forward to a rework in abilities along with it.

[DreamsmithJane]

On 12/15/2017 at 3:14 PM, wffls1 said:

Khora might get an actual passive beyond those two.

Right. Because much like Chroma's abilities, those aren't passives, either. I agree that Chroma should get a real passive, but the advent of Khora seems like an odd trigger for making this request. As far as we know, the ability to change her damage type is her "passive", so she's in the same boat as Chroma until we hear otherwise. Unless her damage type selection comes with statistical changes or something...

5 hours ago, TKDancer said:

any good chroma build only needs 3 things, regardless of element: armor, power strength and power duration anything else u can fit in is a bonus.

That depends. Yes, you need those, but how much you need depends on what you're doing with it. Toxin Chroma only needs 200% ability strength to guarantee damage on every tick from his Elemental Ward (which does % enemy max health damage), so he doesn't need Blind Rage. Alternatively, he can use only Blind Rage and no other strength mods. Electric Chroma needs high shields and some means of regenerating them rapidly, because its damage is based on actual damage taken (multiplied by 20x or more, making it actually useful, unlike Void Spines). Cold Chroma, on the other hand...his only play is basically to maximize Vex Armor and become nearly invulnerable. That last one seems to be the most popular, but it's not automatically the best or only build.

[ZodiacShinryu]

1 hour ago, DreamsmithJane said:

Right. Because much like Chroma's abilities, those aren't passives, either. I agree that Chroma should get a real passive, but the advent of Khora seems like an odd trigger for making this request. As far as we know, the ability to change her damage type is her "passive", so she's in the same boat as Chroma until we hear otherwise. Unless her damage type selection comes with statistical changes or something...

I don't think Khora triggered anything more than just adding more on to the pile. What first triggered these discussions was the release of Equinox. Equinox follows a lot of the same rules as Chroma with the main point being that she picks a color to start the mission in a certain form. However Equinox has an ability that changes her form freely in mission while also benefiting from an actual passive, innate equilibrium. While most people end up only playing one form of Equinox (because wide AoE damage is what most people care about); why does she get to play around with her full design (and get a passive) within a mission while Chroma doesn't? Then Ivara came around and she added a new power mechanic, press vs hold, for the basis of the Quiver power. Then actual passives were added to all the warframes (some better than others) but Chroma was just given his main mechanic even while Equinox already invalidates the argument. Then Vauban got the Quiver treatment to enhance his Bounce into a minelayer skill. To now, Khora also boasting a form mechanic she can change freely in mission. The Quiver mechanic is a simple way to implement Chroma's elemental wheel while giving him a passive that just isn't his main mechanic. This discussion has just gotten louder as more and more things step on Chroma.

As far as Khora goes... yes, we don't know her full details but from the devstream it looked like her forms are like the Quiver mechanic. She could change them when she wanted without a need for an enemy and without using the power each time. She is likely to get a passive not directly related to form swapping.

1 hour ago, DreamsmithJane said:

That depends. Yes, you need those, but how much you need depends on what you're doing with it. Toxin Chroma only needs 200% ability strength to guarantee damage on every tick from his Elemental Ward (which does % enemy max health damage), so he doesn't need Blind Rage. Alternatively, he can use only Blind Rage and no other strength mods. Electric Chroma needs high shields and some means of regenerating them rapidly, because its damage is based on actual damage taken (multiplied by 20x or more, making it actually useful, unlike Void Spines). Cold Chroma, on the other hand...his only play is basically to maximize Vex Armor and become nearly invulnerable. That last one seems to be the most popular, but it's not automatically the best or only build.

You aren't wrong though Colds dominance has a couple of bonuses. Because Vex is its own skill all the forms are equally powerful so arguments against him elemental swapping are simply misguided. Cold is great because it adds armor but in reality for pretty much all content that isn't extended endless Cold isn't necessary because Vex will give you enough armor multiplier to take most beatings. Cold in most cases is a great safety net giving you a little extra protection while you gain your Scorn stacks. But it does have couple of small advantages outside that as well. The reflected damage can also proc cold effect on enemies. This opens up the option of that healing strike mod as well as helping out conditioned overload. You can get a few procs fairly quickly especially if you use infested zaw strikes. Honestly Shock Ward is the worst simply because the added bonus damage is also affected by range which is his most sacrificial stat to get the most out of his buffs.

[DreamsmithJane]

8 hours ago, ZodiacShinryu said:

You aren't wrong though Colds dominance has a couple of bonuses. Because Vex is its own skill all the forms are equally powerful so arguments against him elemental swapping are simply misguided. Cold is great because it adds armor but in reality for pretty much all content that isn't extended endless Cold isn't necessary because Vex will give you enough armor multiplier to take most beatings. Cold in most cases is a great safety net giving you a little extra protection while you gain your Scorn stacks. But it does have couple of small advantages outside that as well. The reflected damage can also proc cold effect on enemies. This opens up the option of that healing strike mod as well as helping out conditioned overload. You can get a few procs fairly quickly especially if you use infested zaw strikes. Honestly Shock Ward is the worst simply because the added bonus damage is also affected by range which is his most sacrificial stat to get the most out of his buffs.

I don't think I can agree with this. Sure, if you use the popular "absolute max power strength and duration" build, which has terrible efficiency and demands the longest duration possible to get the most out of each cast, you're going to "dump" range to make the build work. That's the problem. You just labeled one of the elements "the worst" based purely on the assumption that everyone would use the same "max Vex Armor" build, in the same paragraph where you claimed that all forms are equally powerful. Is one element worse than another, or not?

It just doesn't add up. Either your build makes some elements better and some worse, or it doesn't. Since each element benefits from different stats, they are definitely build dependent. If you fixate on the only non-elemental ability Chroma has, you're kind of just ignoring that. Cold Ward happens to have synergy with Vex Armor, and therefore with builds that maximize VA, but those builds don't benefit other elements. So I have to stand by my assertion that max VA isn't the only build, and moving away from cold does make other builds more desirable. You just have to resist the allure of the supertank with stupid damage to look at what else he can do (while still being a formidable tank with 3/4 of "stupid damage").

Electric Chroma can lock down enemies at medium range, and what he loses in max EHP and gun damage, he gains in sustainability, hard CC, and much better damage reflection. Toxin Chroma can be a mean sniper or heavy gunner (with reload speed) and a melee powerhouse (with scaling DoT that's also guaranteed to feed Condition Overload) at the same time due to holster speed. Heat Chroma...uh...we don't talk about heat Chroma. Not since they took away the ability to heal allies repeatedly with a single Ward. Low flat damage, low fixed status chance, not great. I would actually say heat is the worst one. I think it deserves to have its healing ability restored in a more deliberate and balanced form.

As for an actual passive for Chroma, I still like the idea of some form of Sentient-style damage adaptation, if a less all-consuming one. Maybe one damage type at a time, and maybe not total immunity.

[-BM-Mitz]

I think Chroma has another glaring issue: Power Range

There's nearly no incentive to mod for range meaning most Chroma builds end up "selfish". Maybe it's my playstyle talking but I like to affect others when I play. Rhino for example can get lots of str and duration for his roar for himself but he's pushed ot take range for mobility and CC from his 1st of 4th. Chroma doesn't do a good job motivating you to build more diversely.

Overall I think he needs a bit of a rework along with an actual passive. (I also support the strat for switching elems mid-mission and hopefully, get different dragon wings for each element )

[MrTitan123]

Alright, since I’ve seen some ideas, I think I can come up with a reasonable passive.

 

chromatic immunity: Depending on chroma’s current alignment, chroma is completely immune to damage of that elemental type. (Elemental damage, not physical IPS.) If He DOES receive the indicated damage, he retaliates with a garunteed proc in a small AOE. Proc aoe, strength and duration scale slightly from mods. Note: This only occurs against the identical damage type. Fire will reflect and inflict fire, toxic will reflect and inflict toxic, etc.

[(PSN)Unstar]

On 12/16/2017 at 8:12 AM, motorfirebox said:

Here's a great idea for a passive: +50 health, unmoddable, if he doesn't have a melee equipped.

I just want to highlight how this comment is amazing, and how sad it is that it seems to be going over everyone's heads.  Consider this your second chance to try to understand the comment that should have ended this thread.

[DreamsmithJane]

5 hours ago, (PS4)Unstar said:

I just want to highlight how this comment is amazing, and how sad it is that it seems to be going over everyone's heads.  Consider this your second chance to try to understand the comment that should have ended this thread.

"Somebody made a funny joke. Thread over." Nah. That's not how this works. Mesa's bad passive does not erase the fact that Chroma has no passive.

[ZodiacShinryu]

9 hours ago, DreamsmithJane said:

I don't think I can agree with this. Sure, if you use the popular "absolute max power strength and duration" build, which has terrible efficiency and demands the longest duration possible to get the most out of each cast, you're going to "dump" range to make the build work. That's the problem. You just labeled one of the elements "the worst" based purely on the assumption that everyone would use the same "max Vex Armor" build, in the same paragraph where you claimed that all forms are equally powerful. Is one element worse than another, or not?

Perhaps not particularly the best choice of words on my part or maybe its better to say it was incomplete. My intention was an equally powerful baseline because Vex and Ward are separate. However that for the most part doesn't change much. Vex is his best ability if not just for protections as it is for increased damage output. My point is for pretty much anything that's not looking into far reaches of endless, building up Vex covers up his weaknesses so you can just have fun with what you like. You don't "need" Cold because Vex will be enough on its own to protect you (and enable killing) for the most part, again ignoring endless. But that is where it ends because ignoring that for fun builds is a choice (knowing certain limitations) but it doesn't make something better. Vex doesn't have a range, Effigy doesn't care about range, and Spectral Scream doesn't perform very well even in low levels to care about its range. Range is a dump stat by the most of his kit. As far as wards go except for buffing teammates (though that is slightly aided by the augment), only Elec Ward has a range component. As far as I am aware the damage effect ranges of Heat and Toxin are set and unmoddable. So Cold and Toxin tend to be on top while Fire and Elec tend to be on the bottom simply because health is more useful than shields. Cold even gets around the range stat by ignoring it. Reflected damage isn't ranged based and procs cold anywhere, making plans to utilize specific on hit builds on weapons ahead of time.

I can agree that Elec being the worst is an opinion though it has two compounding problems that the others don't. First, its best feature triggers from being hit (the harder the better); second its feedback is non-scaling. Elec because of how it functions benefits from Vex for your safety. The more you ignore Vex the less of a beating you can take. Then there is the tendency for teammates to prevent the enemy from damaging anyone in the first place. Vex on its own has certain annoyances with taking damage and continuing to do it more often and/or lowering its limit in favor of range seems counter intuitive especially when Vex enables you to just kill anyway over locking down a relatively small area. Though I suppose there is some application if you think of it as a buff for someone like Harrow.

6 hours ago, (PS4)Unstar said:

I just want to highlight how this comment is amazing, and how sad it is that it seems to be going over everyone's heads.  Consider this your second chance to try to understand the comment that should have ended this thread.

As far as I am aware, Mesa still has 2 other parts to her passive: increased fire rate on dual pistols and increased reload on single pistols. Even if DE removed the +50 health with no melee equipped, she still has a passive over Chroma. I also believe that once upon a time that +50 health boost was deemed too great for Mesa's EHP in conclave that they did go ahead and removed it from PVP side. If something is still "going over my head" then I am missing something and would like more details.

[DreamsmithJane]

18 minutes ago, ZodiacShinryu said:

As far as wards go except for buffing teammates (though that is slightly aided by the augment), only Elec Ward has a range component.

I would not take that as an exception. I consider it an important part of Elemental Ward. I would not dump range without the augment. To each, their own, I suppose.

21 minutes ago, ZodiacShinryu said:

I can agree that Elec being the worst is an opinion though it has two compounding problems that the others don't. First, its best feature triggers from being hit (the harder the better); second its feedback is non-scaling. Elec because of how it functions benefits from Vex for your safety. The more you ignore Vex the less of a beating you can take.

On the contrary, Elec. Ward benefits from actual damage taken. If you're taking health damage, Scorn will greatly reduce its effectiveness. The solution is not to ignore Vex Armor, but to invest more in shields, and both healing and shield restoration. In other words, you need to be a "heal tank" rather than relying on massive damage resistance alone, which makes it a careful balancing act. With enough strength, the shield bonus from Elec. Ward should allow you to skip actual shield mods, and a Raksa kubrow will keep shield available to receive full damage for the purposes of the Ward while Vex Armor protects your health. It ends up being a more balanced build, rather than one that trades range and efficiency for strength and duration.