Apostasy Prologue, Explained (Made easy to digest)

[Ashkoorth]

So I was recently browsing the forums to catch up on this latest teaser quest APOSTASY PROLOGUE, only to find massive amount of people dazed and confused about who/what Margulis/Ballas/Natah is. Me, being a big lore nerd will take this opportunity to impart knowledge as simple and easy as I can following with...

 

Margulis  Deceased  - Convicted by the Orokin for helping and treating the Tenno like her children instead of a weapon, Margulis was made to believe by Ballas that she can still be saved from the inevitable death she is faced with had she repented for the sins of apostasy. On her trial, defiant as she always was; she asked for nothing but to persuade her kin that the Tenno are not the monster that they think they are.

Notable quote :  "My daughters, my sons... I want you to know, my last thoughts are of you."

 

Natah Alive - Daughter of The World Destroyer, Sentient Hunhow; Natah was tasked to corrupt the Tenno to turn against their Orokin Masters and later, execute them after; But for some reason, Natah developed a strong bond and grew fondly of her Children, resulting in her betraying her father. She later took the form of Margulis and assumed the title of Lotus, Mother of Tenno

Notable quote :  "For what? I am not who you think I am"

 

Ballas Alive - Driven by guilt for being the reason of the death of his Love - Margulis, Ballas spent his remaining days helping the tenno as was the last request by his former lover. Not finding solace still, Ballas tried to see his love in Lotus (Natah in Margulis' form) and (SPECULATION) with his orokin magic aka transferance, replaced/influenced Natah's memory with Margulis'

Notable quote : "I will not abandon you again, Margulis"

 

 

Source:

Warframe

Apostasy Prologue Cinematic Trailer 

Stallord - Youtube Channel 

Warframe Wikia

Edited December 28, 2017 by Ashkoorth

[Pikad0]

So Natah is just a copy of Margulis?

[Dhrekr]

8 minutes ago, Ashkoorth said:

Me, being a big lore nerd will take this opportunity to impart knowledge as simple and easy as I can following with

Obviously, your "simple and easy" knowledge can be met with lore nerds as big as you are who say "I disagree with your analysis".

I disagree with your analysis. The idea that Ballas can just replace Lotus' memories/personality/brain with Margulis' just by waving his fingers is in my opinion more than a tad ridiculous.

[Ashkoorth]

10 minutes ago, Pikad0 said:

So Natah is just a copy of Margulis?

When she(NATAH) decided to be their mother, she also took the form of the deceased Margulis.

 

6 minutes ago, Dhrekr said:

Obviously, your "simple and easy" knowledge can be met with lore nerds as big as you are who say "I disagree with your analysis".

I disagree with your analysis. The idea that Ballas can just replace Lotus' memories/personality/brain with Margulis' just by waving his fingers is in my opinion more than a tad ridiculous.

Well,that part is really more of a speculation, I should have said to take it with a grain of salt.  But I do think Ballas influenced Lotus to act like Margulis more than any other.

Edited December 28, 2017 by Ashkoorth

[Dhrekr]

Just now, Ashkoorth said:

But I do think Ballas influenced Lotus to act like Margulis more than any other.

Well as we are all speculating, here's my speculation - which doesn't require insta-mindwipe-induced-by-handwaving.

My explanation also draws from the background of Ordis, where we see that the Orokin loved nothing more than taking the criminals put to death and putting them to work one way or the other - in Ordis' case, by extracting his mind, modifying it, and putting it in a Cephalon.

 

Margulis  Currently alive  - Convicted by the Orokin for helping and treating the Tenno like her children instead of a weapon, Margulis is punished by her personality being repressed and her body being given by the Sentient collaborator Natah, matter-of-factily preventing Margulis from existing. When the connection between Natah and her body is broken by Ballas, Margulis' personality re-emerges.

 

Natah Currently unclear - Daughter of The World Destroyer, Sentient Hunhow; Natah was tasked to corrupt the Tenno to turn against their Orokin Masters and later, execute them after; But for some reason, Natah developed a strong bond and grew fondly of her Children, resulting in her betraying her father. She is given the body of Margulis as an interface to talk to the Tenno.

 

Ballas Alive - Having somehow survived the Orokin genocide, and probably now with a vengeance against the Lotus and the Tenno who killed his species, he has now managed to exact part of his revenge by freeing her beloved, Margulis, from the connection with the Lotus, by severing the connection between the body and the Sentient.

 

 

Sure, highly speculative.  But your theory claims that Ballas can just hypnotize Lotus into becoming Margulis (somehow), while my theory explains that Margulis' personality naturally re-emerges as soon as she's disconnected from the mind of the Sentient (the connection was kept via the cables, and somehow activated in the helmet).

[DaftMeat]

23 minutes ago, Dhrekr said:

I disagree with your analysis. The idea that Ballas can just replace Lotus' memories/personality/brain with Margulis' just by waving his fingers is in my opinion more than a tad ridiculous.

We're dealing with science fiction that also deals with cloning, copying of memories/personality into cephalons, and sentient machines. It's all just a matter of how much you're willing to suspend disbelief.

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." A.C. Clarke

[Dhrekr]

5 minutes ago, DaftMeat said:

We're dealing with science fiction that also deals with cloning, copying of memories/personality into cephalons, and sentient machines. It's all just a matter of how much you're willing to suspend disbelief.

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." A.C. Clarke

Of course. That said, not all explanations are equal. For example, I think that my explanation is better as it doesn't require mindwipe-through-hand-gesture. It is still half-magical, as it requires mind-control and personality suppression.

[Exelcto]

Talking about Apostasy Prologue, there's something said by Ballas.
" But of course u are. Imprisoned, just as she was."

He's telling that Lotus/Natah and is reffering to Margulis being imprisoned by Orokin. And here's my question. 

What does being imprisoned mean for Natah/Lotus? 

[Dhrekr]

Just now, Exelcto said:

Talking about Apostasy Prologue, there's something said by Ballas.
" But of course u are. Imprisoned, just as she was."

He's telling that Lotus/Natah and is reffering to Margulis being imprisoned by Orokin. And here's my question. 

What does being imprisoned mean for Natah/Lotus? 

Lotus maybe is forced to inhabit Margulis' body and being connected to her. Possibly. While Margulis is imprisoned (in her own mind, or else).

Unclear and needs more explanation.

[Tsunero]

Assuming Natah got her hand on Margulis' dead body to assume her indentity I can see her having her full memory intact so while the body is not Margulis' original one but Natah's, Ballas blocked out Natah with some space magic so Margulis can be in control.

[DaftMeat]

11 minutes ago, Dhrekr said:

Of course. That said, not all explanations are equal. For example, I think that my explanation is better as it doesn't require mindwipe-through-hand-gesture. It is still half-magical, as it requires mind-control and personality suppression.

 

1 minute ago, Dhrekr said:

Lotus maybe is forced to inhabit Margulis' body and being connected to her. Possibly. While Margulis is imprisoned (in her own mind, or else).

Unclear and needs more explanation.

 

I interpreted it in that the "execution" of Margulis was to have her mind rewritten, in a similar manner that Karris was rewritten...

... the Orokin warrior Ordin Karris becoming Cephalon Ordis.

In other words, Margulis and Natah are the same physical person/body, but with completely different personalities, traits, motives, etc. I took it as Ballas loves who Lotus used to be, and wants to try to temp her into returning to her original self.

[Dhrekr]

1 minute ago, DaftMeat said:

I took it as Ballas loves who Lotus used to be, and wants to try to temp her into returning to her original self.

I don't get why Lotus should play along. It's not like Lotus has any reason to be tempted: she was never the lover of Ballas, and she's seen abandoning her beloved Tenno children. And the "original self" of Lotus is Lotus. She can't be tempted to return to Margulis - she can just be tempted to pretend she's Margulis.

 

Besides, Ballas talks to Margulis directly after detaching the cables ("I will never leave you again") and Margulis follows Ballas willingly, with no need of explanations and convincing. What you say requires that Lotus was tempted and convinced by a hand-wave.

To me that's possible only if it's Margulis.

[Justice_Ember]

The mere fact that Ballas refers to Margulis as part of the past should clear all suspicions of either resurrection, rewritten memory, continuity ritual, and any other form of bringing Margulis back.

Natah/Lotus, recognized Ballas after he disconnected her, hinting that he "imprisoned" her, there's another motivation we are not seeing, or rather has not been presented yet, true Ballas is powerful but we already killed a bunch of Orokin before, and Natah choosing to go with him without an explanation or back up plan only means he represents a threat big enough for her to go without questioning him.

[Justice_Ember]

3 minutes ago, Dhrekr said:

Besides, Ballas talks to Margulis directly after detaching the cables ("I will never leave you again") and Margulis follows Ballas willingly

Ballas speaks in almost verses and de-personifies whoever he is talking to, Natah has the face and body of Margulis, he could just as easily be talking to the image of Margulis, as for why Natah would follow him, fear. Simple, primal, speech sucking fear.

[(XBOX)Mechanomaly]

@Ashkoorth I think you should put a Spoilers Tag on this Topic.

I don't even know how to ping people...

Edited December 28, 2017 by (XB1)Juniormech777

[Cubewano]

1 hour ago, Dhrekr said:

I don't get why Lotus should play along. It's not like Lotus has any reason to be tempted: she was never the lover of Ballas, and she's seen abandoning her beloved Tenno children. And the "original self" of Lotus is Lotus. She can't be tempted to return to Margulis - she can just be tempted to pretend she's Margulis.

 

Besides, Ballas talks to Margulis directly after detaching the cables ("I will never leave you again") and Margulis follows Ballas willingly, with no need of explanations and convincing. What you say requires that Lotus was tempted and convinced by a hand-wave.

To me that's possible only if it's Margulis.

There are more reason to go with someone than romantic sentiment, this is the creator of the warframes, and a notable figure in the orokin society that was long thought dead, whether as a threat or a bountiful vat of information he is definitely something worth pursuing. Especially if at the time she felt he would be an immediate threat, ala him being directly in front of one of her children. 

Sure we don't know why the Lotus would go with him, but there are definitely possible reasons for her to do it.

Edited December 28, 2017 by Cubewano

[(PSN)Silverback73]

1 hour ago, zzzNitro said:

The mere fact that Ballas refers to Margulis as part of the past should clear all suspicions of either resurrection, rewritten memory, continuity ritual, and any other form of bringing Margulis back.

Natah/Lotus, recognized Ballas after he disconnected her, hinting that he "imprisoned" her, there's another motivation we are not seeing, or rather has not been presented yet, true Ballas is powerful but we already killed a bunch of Orokin before, and Natah choosing to go with him without an explanation or back up plan only means he represents a threat big enough for her to go without questioning him.

"I am not who you think I am."

(Do not do this, Ballas.  It will not satisfy your misdirected desires.)

"But of course you are.  Imprisoned, just as she was."

(A clear indication to me that Ballas, in his solitude, has become dangerously unstable in perceiving the Lotus and Margulis as one and the same).

BALLAS' ARM

The symbolic significance; Adorned AND hidden and it's key reveal in the cutscene.

More was revealed from a storytelling perspective than in the concept art.

THE ARM SYMBOLIZES THE WARFRAME PROJECT, EVEN ON A COSMETIC LEVEL.

Prime Gold Adornments--the Ballas Aesthetic, similar to Edo Prime, hide the corrupted arm beneath drapery. 

The parallel is the beautification of Prime Warframes, perhaps even a tribute to Margulis' beauty, masking the true nature of the program.

THE ARM IS PHYSICALLY WARPED AND CORRUPTED IN DIRECT CONTRAST TO OROKIN SYMMETRY AND BEAUTY.

I see this as symbolic of Ballas' mental state...His words flow like honey...laced with unseen cyanide.

THE ARM IS REVEALED WHEN BALLAS SMOOTHLY RIPS LOTUS FROM HER CONNECTION, EXTENDING FAR BEYOND THE REACH OF ANY NORMAL ARM AND ENVELOPING LOTUS' HAND.

The suggestion is clear:  Ballas has over-extended himself, mentally and physically, in his quest to re-unite with Margulis.  The cost is a power that has corrupted him, probably Void-related, and that Lotus knows she can do nothing to stop him.

The arm may be the corrupted AMP Arm of his most recent Yuvan.

Lotus goes "by Choice" to protect us.  She most likely begins dying the moment this Margulis/Natah split happens, as seen in the Umbra trailer at Tennocon with the moon falling apart (Natah may very well be THE MOON when you seen the size of the old Sentient bones on the PoE).

Edited December 28, 2017 by (PS4)Silverback73

[Sloan441]

The prologue is so filled with disjointed reveals and happenings...it's just hard to draw any conclusion past the, "What did I just see?" reaction so many have had. 

I've played it (obviously) and watched about a dozen other playthroughs and I'm still not sure what to think. My usual reaction is, yes, that's interesting--possibly earthshaking--but...still need more information to shoehorn this into some sort of coherent narrative. 

Couple or three things are relatively clear, however:

1) Ballas is still around, amazingly enough. We do know that high caste Orokin are about as hard to kill as a cockroach and Ballas has apparently been occupying the woodwork of the origin system kitchen since the Fall. Moreover, if one can do, more could have done it as well. 

2) Lotus probably isn't what we think she is. I'm getting a bait and switch vibe here. I think what we regard as the Lotus is a homunculus or simulacrum and the throne is where the real action is. We do know that sentients are composite creatures with potentially many parts they can split off at will and rejoin with. Natah was also void-poisoned, so how this affects that ability is hard to say. 

3) Tenno are apparently invisible. Maybe we're the cockroaches in the kitchen and the lights simply weren't turned on. I'm thinking this is one of those void memory traces and we just picked up the trail very soon after it happened. Apparently, things were intense enough that it impinged strongly on the void (via Ballas perhaps?) and we latched onto it rather quickly.  

This is a prologue, so there's going to be more to come. 

 

[Justice_Ember]

14 minutes ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

The suggestion is clear:  Ballas has over-extended himself, mentally and physically, in his quest to re-unite with Margulis.  The cost is a power that has corrupted him, probably Void-related, and that Lotus knows she can do nothing to stop him.

The arm may be the corrupted AMP Arm of his most recent Yuvan.

Lotus goes "by Choice" to protect us.  She most likely begins dying the moment this Margulis/Natah split happens, as seen in the Umbra trailer at Tennocon with the moon falling apart (Natah may very well be THE MOON when you seen the size of the old Sentient bones on the PoE).

There's too much we don't know

[(PSN)Silverback73]

31 minutes ago, zzzNitro said:

There's too much we don't know

True, but the design decisions on the arm are clues hidden in plain sight.  Bank on it.

[Justice_Ember]

Just now, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

True, but the design decisions on the arm are clues hidden in plain sight.  Bank on it.

Yeah, I'm pretty much sold on it, not necessarily being an AMP, but definitely being highly important, at the very least this looks like a promising third act.

[Sloan441]

24 minutes ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

True, but the design decisions on the arm are clues hidden in plain sight.  Bank on it.

The only conclusions I'd be willing to draw at this point would be that the surviving Orokin have had it rough when it comes to kuva/body swapping logistics. The grineer queens being a case in point. Ballas being in as good a shape as he is either points to much better planning on his part over the centuries, or he spent some considerable time himself in cryostasis. Or both. 

It wouldn't be any surprise if he's undergone some degree of genetic degradation over (considerable) time and he's only doing the best he can with what resources he has access to. Anything past stating he's departed from what were the Orokin physical norms is going to be pure speculation, since we have only a picture and this prologue to go by. 

The real question is where he's been keeping himself all this time. 

[(PSN)Silverback73]

13 minutes ago, Sloan441 said:

The only conclusions I'd be willing to draw at this point would be that the surviving Orokin have had it rough when it comes to kuva/body swapping logistics. The grineer queens being a case in point. Ballas being in as good a shape as he is either points to much better planning on his part over the centuries, or he spent some considerable time himself in cryostasis. Or both. 

It wouldn't be any surprise if he's undergone some degree of genetic degradation over (considerable) time and he's only doing the best he can with what resources he has access to. Anything past stating he's departed from what were the Orokin physical norms is going to be pure speculation, since we have only a picture and this prologue to go by. 

The real question is where he's been keeping himself all this time. 

The fact that he uses that grotesque hand to forcibly (by context) lead her away from the now severed Natah helmet and the fact that it's both hidden AND the most ornately adorned part of his body are all design choices suggestive of power, not just degradation/corruption/deformity.

As a designer, it's what I would do.  

[Sloan441]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

The fact that he uses that grotesque hand to forcibly (by context) lead her away...

Or he's simply right handed.

You're probably right it's significant in some manner, but exactly how I'm not willing to speculate too much on since there's practically no information to work with. I can think of all sorts of stuff as to why, but there's nothing specific in the game to hook it to. 

It's even speculation to state that he's departed from Orokin norms, when we really don't know what those might be, aside from slathering everything in gold. That sort of bilateral asymmetry might have been the height of Orokin style just before the Fall. 

All I can say for sure is I'm looking forward to the next installment for more traction in deciphering all this. 

[Mints]

4 hours ago, Dhrekr said:

Ballas Alive - Having somehow survived the Orokin genocide, and probably now with a vengeance against the Lotus and the Tenno who killed his species, he has now managed to exact part of his revenge by freeing her beloved, Margulis, from the connection with the Lotus, by severing the connection between the body and the Sentient.

I'm not so sure Ballas wants vengeance on anybody. He doesn't seem to have much love or the Orokin. His narration of the Prime trailers implies very heavily that Ballas knew exactly what the Tenno would do. He apparently made no effort to stop them and quite easily survived the purge of the Orokin and the Collapse afterward. He may have even been directly involved. Remember that physical death is not the end for the Orokin. For all we know they still exist somewhere, wispy shadow in some far off corner of the Void. For all we know they're The Man in the Wall.

Ballas, the Orokin, these creatures are immortal and ancient. They don't think how you and I would. They are wise. They are patient. They are tied to the Void. They are also deeply afflicted with madness and self-deification, believing themselves to be gods and beyond good and evil. Who knows what killing them all at once did?

Edited December 28, 2017 by Mints