Does anyone here actually like the Operator?

[Chipputer]

3 minutes ago, chainchompguy3 said:

If it was trying to make the character matter, that character's preferences would be the ones affecting the story-world. Your preferences would just affect the gameplay (eg. sniping versus shotgunning, etc).

But that's exactly how it is. Your choices affect gameplay and the character's choices affect the narrative. The only choices you are given, as a player, to influence them are ones that decide their moral compass-- in essence you decide what the background of that character is while the narrative decides what the current story of that character is.

Notice how almost every, "moral," choice that happens in the current time of the story ends in almost the exact same way. In one case the only difference is who does the deed-- you, nature, or someone else.

Next you'll bring up that tired old, "man I can't believe a child hates being called a child," quip as though you didn't hate being called a child when you were one, too.

[SnuggleBuckets]

I seem to recall a topic existing with exactly the same name a while ago. This one has apparently been going on as well for a while with so many comments I'm afraid I can't read through all of this. There have been so many of these topics around, apologies for simply quoting myself, but figured I'd add my thoughts here as I think I've expressed them pretty clearly.

On 22/10/2017 at 10:14 PM, SnuggleBuckets said:

If I can express one aspect of my dislike with operators when compared to Warframes, it's that warframes are a slightly silly, slightly cheesy, still fun, cool space ninja wizards powerfantasy with awesome weapons.
Operators are indoctrinated, dogmatic, brainwashed child soldiers who talk like creepy nazis with warrior honour culture. They sound like their moral compass has been broken by all the nazi camps and military training in their childhood, aping a Hannibal impression with their monotone pre-teen voice while talking seriously about honour, glory and purging places like they did in the good old days.
If the devs wanted a grimdark cheesy campy vibe they should have gone for the silly tone of Warhammer 40k Space Marines, with their silly accents and over-the top tone that always hammers home in a much more humorous and less creepy way their religious xenophobic fascist ideology, where you instantly can tell how self aware it is when they yell "purge the heretic!".
Seeing a psychopathic teenager say in a creepy voice how they will defeat all who oppose them, uuuuggghhhh.
Thank goodness I can mute that voice over though. Now to just keep avoiding playing the War Within.

 

On 27/10/2017 at 9:14 AM, SnuggleBuckets said:

Yeah I could forgive the horrible teen voices if the lines were better, or if they have to have such horrible things to say they should have gone the Warhammer 40k or Helldivers or Starship Troopers route of ridicule conveyed in hammy cheesy delivery.
I mean just look at the stuff our operators spout:
http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Operator/Quotes
They sound like a mix of an uneducated barbarian living in a culture praising honour, glory, a creepy mystic monk worshipping purity, the old ways and authority, just like I said, they end up sounding, combined with horrible writing and voices, like a creepy brainwashed child soldier spouting their ideology that's a mix of all the worst monstrosities out there.
Rational, pragmatic, civilised, clear headed, actually good and moral people don't talk like this:

" We will bring honor to the Tenno. "
" We know the mission, we will not fail. "
" My Warframe is the hand, and I am the will. "
" My warframe is strong. "
" Attack us, and we will counter. "
" For the Lotus. "
" For the Tenno. "
" We fought with honor. "
" The Grineer prey on the weak, but we prey on the Grineer. "
" The Grineer have no honor.  "
" These Corpus remind me of the Orokin, selfish, greedy. "
" So... the Corpus are just a cult, worshiping money. "
" We'll put an end to this Corpus greed. "
" You are the mission. I will not falter. "
" Say what you want, we are still coming for you. "
And lastly my favourite bit of nazi literature:
" We need to purge this place, as we did in the old days. "

Seriously, only people roleplaying crazy dogmatic individuals would even attempt to sound like this. Is this really the type of protagonist the developers want us to play as? To feel connected or bonded to or compelled in some way to play as?
In Halo 2, with the religious brainwashed Covenant sounding equally crazy, it served as a way to show how in the end the Arbiter lost his faith and decided to fight against the death cult, that's how Bungie managed to make the elites more likeable in Halo as a protagonist and not just a cheesy fun enemy. Will the devs of Warframe have our kids finally grow up before we grow tired of them? Because it's been years, I'm tired of the blind broken teenagers already.

I think everyone, even the more vehement defenders of Operators, can agree with the idea that the devs should give all of us more choice; if the operator is supposed to express personality and ideals and values in the game, and it already has light RPG elements in many other mechanics, best to give players full RPG choices in characterisation as well, than try to force a single one onto players. Even RPGs like The Witcher, though having an established personality in Geralt, still offer wide freedom in choices of actions and how to tweak his personality to more closely suit the players wants.

Edited January 23, 2018 by SnuggleBuckets

[K2k4]

I enjoy my operator right now because it doesn't feel like a warframe.  Void dashing and void mode add a different dimension to gameplay.  There are definite flaws with this system though :

Focus is capped too low or the passives are too expensive.  It takes a week of focus grind per waybound at the point I'm at, and other things take 1-2 nights tops.  What if focus gained while in operator form does not affect the cap?  That is incentive. 

Non-waybound skills are mostly useless because of energy cost or abysmal damage.  This could be fixed by opening up mods for operator or amp.  Maybe use the same mods used for operator and weapons.

Operator and amp arcanes are a huge grind from the ground up.  I'm looking at the days of reputation cap it will take to reach maximum rank to pick up an arcane which will make my operator much more durable plus rare, hair pulling materials (eidolon gems and fish parts I need max rank bait for). 

Operator base movement speed and survivability is aweful.  Until I had magus husk arcane, void flow and rejuvenating tides maxed I found survival terrible in most cases.  I think that adding an unlock for waybounds at any time would make more sense, maybe spend 1 eidolon shard and 250k focus at any time once unlocked and you can use the ability from any tree at its current rank.  You take a days worth of rank max to get an immediate benefit as opposed to waiting a week for a minor buff.

I understand the criticisms and hate that the operator gets, as they are super slow, there is often a lag when swapping forms or void dashing, and the grind for focus is infuriating,  but i do feel accomplished with what I have after about 3 weeks of maxing focus/amp/arcanes for the teralyst hunt.  It's satisfying in my opinion.

[DatDarkOne]

5 hours ago, Chipputer said:

Again? Surely you tease. You'll be back within a week of uninstalling because your new bastion of a Well Balanced Game(tm) isn't quite as balanced as you wanted.

This isn't a problem with you, alone. This is a problem with this forum as a whole. They see Operators and they dislike them thematically. DE gives them the option to turn off their voiceovers so they don't have to hear them talk anymore and people complain about their gameplay. DE ups their gameplay to be worth using without making them fully replace your Warframe and then people complain that their gameplay isn't the same as the Warframes so DE should stop developing them and focus on the Warframes again.

Meanwhile, within that same breath, people will complain that DE doesn't finish what they start and need to stop implementing new systems without finishing them.

Then people wonder why DE has such a sporadic development cycle when the feedback can't decide what it wants.

PREACH!!!!!!

Edited January 23, 2018 by DatDarkOne

[RistN]

@Futurehero

One thing intrests me.How much did you use Amps and operators and how much focus nodes and waybounds did you unlock?

[Futurehero]

10 minutes ago, RistN said:

@Futurehero

One thing intrests me.How much did you use Amps and operators and how much focus nodes and waybounds did you unlock?

So as of now I have:

3 Amps  : One is 1-1-1 , one is 2-1-2, and one is 2-2-3

Both Vazarin unbound.

Both naramon unbound : 80% of the way.

Almost full zenurik, slowing and electric void blast, energy regen.

Naramon affinity gain, slower melee decay

6/10 Magus Vigor

Currently grinding for Magus Cadence.

 

[KirukaChan]

I've been using the Operator a bit more than usual as of late (I've got an Amp with all the T1 parts, not gilded), and I find that the only time I'm salty about the Operator being underpowered is when I'm fighting Grineer, but that's more of an armor scaling problem than an Operator problem. They're pretty useful at sucker punching Nullifiers and Combas/Scrambuses, as well as picking off the Ancient Healer out of a big swarm of Infested.

[chainchompguy3]

5 hours ago, Chipputer said:

But that's exactly how it is. Your choices affect gameplay and the character's choices affect the narrative. The only choices you are given, as a player, to influence them are ones that decide their moral compass-- in essence you decide what the background of that character is while the narrative decides what the current story of that character is.

Notice how almost every, "moral," choice that happens in the current time of the story ends in almost the exact same way. In one case the only difference is who does the deed-- you, nature, or someone else.

Next you'll bring up that tired old, "man I can't believe a child hates being called a child," quip as though you didn't hate being called a child when you were one, too.

Oh, sorry, I worded that absolutely god-awfully, and it brought across an entirely different meaning than the one I was trying to make.

When I said that, I meant those 2 sentences intertwined: working simultaneously

A character who influences the world WHILE you affect the gameplay.

A character who talks about the things he/she's done, when it was you did the gameplay aspect associated with that event.

A character who expresses how they feel about the situation you're gunning in.

Those are good characters, because just like a real person, they don't just suddenly stop becoming a person when you aren't looking.

 

When you break the story and gameplay apart, you lose that. The character loses all relevance outside of cut scenes. You might as well not even have the cutscenes in the game at that point: just ship the game with a movie attached.

 

Warframe tries: it has the in-mission quips. Now, normally, mid-mission quips are bad story telling: it's telling rather than showing. But there's only so much you can show to a player who's busy shooting hordes of monsters, so I'd be willing to give them a pass.

But they have no relevance. They only sometimes reference the faction you're fighting, most of the time just saying something stupid like "My Warframe is strong." Without any relevant world trigger, either. "We fight with honor" as I use bastille to suspend a bunch of grineer, rendering them helpless as I shoot them down 1-by-1.

They need to be massively more fleshed out in order to actually contribute to the character.

Make it seem like the Operator(Character-in the story) doesn't just pop into existence for the cutscene, and then disappear once the cutscene is finished.

 

Hope that cleared things up. I'll try to edit my other post.

[MystMan]

5 hours ago, Chipputer said:

Then people wonder why DE has such a sporadic development cycle when the feedback can't decide what it wants.

If that isn't an epic mic drop of a reply, then I don't know what is. 

I wonder what standards people are using these days to measure their expectations and definition of fun.  If it's unrealistically too high, they're going to complain about anything anytime no matter what. It's like those stereotypical strict parents who complain to their kids that their accomplishments are never good enough and only see negatives and blow them out of proportion.

WF isn't perfect at all, but it's far from terrible. It's definitely above-average and last time I checked that's a good grade. There are legion of games out there that fit the bill of being actually boring, grindy, unrewarding and just plain bad across the board.

If we all have to make a personal top 10 list of farming grind games, and WF is in that list and still you find the game to be "w0rstg4me3v3r!", then you are measuring with a ridiculous standard and the game you want it to be does not exist, otherwise you'd be playing that right now.

I'm glad they introduced trials, archwing and operators, successful or not. At least they dared to take chances and broaden their game to keep it interesting.  Other game studios just play it safe and remain the same forever and only release cosmetic skins and re-skinned weapons as updates. Even if they're fun, it wears off before I even reach the 1000 hour mark. I'm 6881 hours now in WF, still not bored. Cause I play it smart by not grinding for stuff in an inefficient way.

Why hasn't any of the nay-sayers stopped and asked why there are players who can level their AW so quickly?  How have they maxed the entire focus school system already?  How do they farm POE so effectively? How did they master trials?  How are others still having fun?  Just. Ask.

But no, it's easier to try once, stumble and immediately go in complain-mode and dismiss opposing opinions like they're not there or giving snarky "good for you, that's your opinion" replies. 

[Chipputer]

3 hours ago, chainchompguy3 said:

Oh, sorry, I worded that absolutely god-awfully, and it brought across an entirely different meaning than the one I was trying to make.

...

Hope that cleared things up. I'll try to edit my other post.

Fair enough.

[StabbyTentacles]

10 hours ago, Chipputer said:

This isn't a problem with you, alone. This is a problem with this forum as a whole. They see Operators and they dislike them thematically. DE gives them the option to turn off their voiceovers so they don't have to hear them talk anymore and people complain about their gameplay. DE ups their gameplay to be worth using without making them fully replace your Warframe and then people complain that their gameplay isn't the same as the Warframes so DE should stop developing them and focus on the Warframes again.

1) Your point?

2) The option to turn off the voiceovers of Operators isn't really the best solution to flawed/confused/faulty, unwanted/redundant, and forced/mandatory gameplay.

10 hours ago, Chipputer said:

Meanwhile, within that same breath, people will complain that DE doesn't finish what they start and need to stop implementing new systems without finishing them.

Indeed. So players who believe Warframe PVP, Archwing, and Lunaro are wasters of time,or are simply whining and critical?

Or are they maybe: Simply players who'd prefer DE not waste limited resources on random flights of fancy.

10 hours ago, Chipputer said:

Then people wonder why DE has such a sporadic development cycle when the feedback can't decide what it wants.

No.  DE has such a sporadic 'development' cycle. Because/as a result of DE having a sporadic 'development' cycle.

Warframe was a great game before: Operators, PVP, Archwing, and Lunaro... If DE had worked on Warframe systems, and Warframe enemies. And Warframe development. There is little doubt Warframe would now be a better game than it is now/at this time.

The biggest most substantial issue of Warframe as a game has never been Warframes.

Encouraging DE to continue building a new game over Warframe seems clearly flawed/unsound. At least to me.

 

[Cryptix123]

...I like operators because they make it so I'm not forced to buy or farm frames I don't enjoy just to do a certain type of mission I also don't enjoy (Stealth frames, Spy missions). And they have interesting bonuses depending on the personality I select for them. And I can use them as a getaway tool when I'm about to get dragged by a Ancient. So I guess their cool.

 

But lets be honest the real reason we use them is for fashion frame.

[Ezekeel666]

15 hours ago, Chipputer said:

This isn't a problem with you, alone. This is a problem with this forum as a whole. They see Operators and they dislike them thematically. DE gives them the option to turn off their voiceovers so they don't have to hear them talk anymore and people complain about their gameplay. DE ups their gameplay to be worth using without making them fully replace your Warframe and then people complain that their gameplay isn't the same as the Warframes so DE should stop developing them and focus on the Warframes again.

Meanwhile, within that same breath, people will complain that DE doesn't finish what they start and need to stop implementing new systems without finishing them.

Then people wonder why DE has such a sporadic development cycle when the feedback can't decide what it wants.

You make it sound like the community is some small group of people who all have the same opinion but once DE makes a change due to their feedback they move the goal post and change their opinion because they are a bunch of knobheads. That however does not reflect reality at all. On the contrary the WF community consists of literally millions of players with different opinions. Once DE fixes problem A satisfying the players that see A as a problem making their criticism fade, there are still players that have a completely other problem B and their voices now move to the front and so on and so on until everyone is satisfied which is never. Welcome to society.

It is not the player's job to find a common consistent voice (also practically impossible) but the community manager's job to aggregate the different opinions and get an idea how many people feel one or the other way.

[BlackCoMerc]

20 hours ago, Chipputer said:

Again? Surely you tease. You'll be back within a week of uninstalling because your new bastion of a Well Balanced Game(tm) isn't quite as balanced as you wanted.

This isn't a problem with you, alone. This is a problem with this forum as a whole. They see Operators and they dislike them thematically. DE gives them the option to turn off their voiceovers so they don't have to hear them talk anymore and people complain about their gameplay. DE ups their gameplay to be worth using without making them fully replace your Warframe and then people complain that their gameplay isn't the same as the Warframes so DE should stop developing them and focus on the Warframes again.

Meanwhile, within that same breath, people will complain that DE doesn't finish what they start and need to stop implementing new systems without finishing them.

Then people wonder why DE has such a sporadic development cycle when the feedback can't decide what it wants.

Except that the Operator DOES replace your Warframe. 

Can we please stop acting like you can use both AT THE SAME TIME? 

Every time you use Operator, you MUST stop using your Warframe. To participate in combat with my Operator, I have to give up sleek, agile, fast, durable and fun frames...and play as the hunched over Kid who can barely run, barely jump, cant deal damage and barely moves faster than a walking horse in Skyrim. 

That the Operator DOES replace the Frame is the problem. Its the root of the problem, in fact. Because it does the same jobs - Stealth, Hacking, Fighting - so badly compared to Warframes with corresponding abilities, that it makes use of the operator to perform those tasks laughable by comparison. Especially combat.

[BlackCoMerc]

18 hours ago, K2k4 said:

I enjoy my operator right now because it doesn't feel like a warframe.  Void dashing and void mode add a different dimension to gameplay.  There are definite flaws with this system though :

Focus is capped too low or the passives are too expensive.  It takes a week of focus grind per waybound at the point I'm at, and other things take 1-2 nights tops.  What if focus gained while in operator form does not affect the cap?  That is incentive. 

Non-waybound skills are mostly useless because of energy cost or abysmal damage.  This could be fixed by opening up mods for operator or amp.  Maybe use the same mods used for operator and weapons.

Operator and amp arcanes are a huge grind from the ground up.  I'm looking at the days of reputation cap it will take to reach maximum rank to pick up an arcane which will make my operator much more durable plus rare, hair pulling materials (eidolon gems and fish parts I need max rank bait for). 

Operator base movement speed and survivability is aweful.  Until I had magus husk arcane, void flow and rejuvenating tides maxed I found survival terrible in most cases.  I think that adding an unlock for waybounds at any time would make more sense, maybe spend 1 eidolon shard and 250k focus at any time once unlocked and you can use the ability from any tree at its current rank.  You take a days worth of rank max to get an immediate benefit as opposed to waiting a week for a minor buff.

I understand the criticisms and hate that the operator gets, as they are super slow, there is often a lag when swapping forms or void dashing, and the grind for focus is infuriating,  but i do feel accomplished with what I have after about 3 weeks of maxing focus/amp/arcanes for the teralyst hunt.  It's satisfying in my opinion.

Well and fairly said.

I do appreciate the utility the operator offers. I even use that utility regularly. Especially for hacking and getting into Bubbles to kill a Nullifier in a crowded room. 

I just wish the Operator were FUN to use. I mean, if you are going to have it participate in combat, it NEEDS to be as fun to control as a Frame. Maybe in different ways, but right now...it isnt.have requested another revision of the drop tables to hopefully address these issues

[Aleksi134]

41 minutes ago, BlackCoMerc said:

Except that the Operator DOES replace your Warframe. 

Can we please stop acting like you can use both AT THE SAME TIME? 

Every time you use Operator, you MUST stop using your Warframe. To participate in combat with my Operator, I have to give up sleek, agile, fast, durable and fun frames...and play as the hunched over Kid who can barely run, barely jump, cant deal damage and barely moves faster than a walking horse in Skyrim. 

That the Operator DOES replace the Frame is the problem. Its the root of the problem, in fact. Because it does the same jobs - Stealth, Hacking, Fighting - so badly compared to Warframes with corresponding abilities, that it makes use of the operator to perform those tasks laughable by comparison. Especially combat.

Anytime i get out of my warframe is to travel faster with operator dash or zenurik energy or damage buffs and immortality to everything. I wouldnt say it slows me down, if anything the opposite. You dont exactly charge into combat with operators unless you are fighting an eidolon.

Edited January 24, 2018 by Aleksi134

[Airwolfen]

35 minutes ago, BlackCoMerc said:

Except that the Operator DOES replace your Warframe. 

Can we please stop acting like you can use both AT THE SAME TIME? 

Every time you use Operator, you MUST stop using your Warframe. To participate in combat with my Operator, I have to give up sleek, agile, fast, durable and fun frames...and play as the hunched over Kid who can barely run, barely jump, cant deal damage and barely moves faster than a walking horse in Skyrim. 

That the Operator DOES replace the Frame is the problem. Its the root of the problem, in fact. Because it does the same jobs - Stealth, Hacking, Fighting - so badly compared to Warframes with corresponding abilities, that it makes use of the operator to perform those tasks laughable by comparison. Especially combat.

Well that's not what people mean when they say operators do not replace Warframes, they do not mean it in a literal sense.

What people mean is that in function the operator fills a different role and one side does what the other does not / in a different way.

For example. the operator is not great at combat because the warframe is supposed to be for combat. And the operators role is more or less to support, not the team, But your own playstyle.

The status effect of amps for example is a small bullet attractor. the operators themselves do not have much use for that effect. The weapons on your frame however are much more suitable to abuse that effect.

the system is not there yet, I agree. Transitions could be more seamless and we probably need more nodes in the trees that specifically target frames. (+ of course the further edits to lower the overall focus grind.) But as with many things in warframe. even the parts loved this day and age. Its gonna take a while.

[BlackCoMerc]

57 minutes ago, Airwolfen said:

Well that's not what people mean when they say operators do not replace Warframes, they do not mean it in a literal sense.

What people mean is that in function the operator fills a different role and one side does what the other does not / in a different way.

For example. the operator is not great at combat because the warframe is supposed to be for combat. And the operators role is more or less to support, not the team, But your own playstyle.

The status effect of amps for example is a small bullet attractor. the operators themselves do not have much use for that effect. The weapons on your frame however are much more suitable to abuse that effect.

the system is not there yet, I agree. Transitions could be more seamless and we probably need more nodes in the trees that specifically target frames. (+ of course the further edits to lower the overall focus grind.) But as with many things in warframe. even the parts loved this day and age. Its gonna take a while.

If you have to qualify something with "What I MEAN when I say this is" then you havent stated your point well to begin with. Which is the (patently, observably) false pretense that Operator game play does not replace Warframe game play. 

Let me explain:

What does a Warframe do? It moves through maps sneaking stealthily, hacking, reviving and killing enemies.

What does an Operator do? It moves through maps sneaking stealthily, hacking, reviving and killing enemies.

Can both be used to perform these tasks AT THE SAME TIME? No.

Which of these two modes performs the above tasks BETTER and in a manner that is more fun, exciting and engaging? Easy - The Warframe. It is faster, sleeker, more agile, more durable, deals more damage and is more dynamic and exciting to pilot. By far. This is especially true for controller users, due to gross input delays that get worse as a Client, when using operator mode. 

So yes, in point of fact, PLAYING AS the Operator DOES actually REPLACE playing as the Warframe. And that is the problem. By trying to make the operator perform the same tasks as a Warframe, you play up the weaknesses of the Operator system as a whole, since, by comparison to Warframe game play, the Operator is clunky, slow, boring, fragile and weak. Which is why DE forces Operator use in gimmicky ways no one likes: because with doing so, no one would USE the operator, and DE knows it. (This was proven by Hunter Squads willing to equip a largely useless aura in order to fight the Teralyst with resorting to Gimpy the Space Kid). 

Operators should be designed in ways that DO NOT overlap with Warframes. They should exclusively support the Frame. NOT try and perform the same tasks, only worse.

[BlackCoMerc]

1 hour ago, Aleksi134 said:

Anytime i get out of my warframe is to travel faster with operator dash or zenurik energy or damage buffs and immortality to everything. I wouldnt say it slows me down, if anything the opposite. You dont exactly charge into combat with operators unless you are fighting an eidolon.

And that sounds nice.

Alas, I use a controller since playing kb/m is not something I have ever enjoyed, and indeed is pain inducing due to past injury if I do it long enough. And DE has allowed the bug ridden input delays on controller to persist to the point that I no longer trust Transference to happen either fully, correctly or in a timely manner at all. Thus, relying on void dash for moving is like relying on a cold motor for a quarter mile qualifier...

[(PSN)Elvenbane]

1 hour ago, Aleksi134 said:

Anytime i get out of my warframe is to travel faster with operator dash or zenurik energy or damage buffs and immortality to everything.

Where are you using your operator's dash to travel faster? Normal star chart missions...or in the plains? The only time I use it is in the plains; it doesn't make me appreciate the operator more, it's just a reminder how un-fun it is to slog between widely separated bounty objectives and the cetus gates...as well as how slow to deploy and un-fun fish wing is.

As to dashing for energy regen, switching from frame to operator and back again is awful (but at least the dash delay is gone with the ghoul update). I usually point the operator at the nearest rock/wall to minimize un-wanted travel. It's just a dopey mechanic...and when you are client with a bit of lag, the operator often ends up outside the energy sphere and you need to turn around.

Void dash is being used to address the wrong problems...

[Ham_Grenabe]

I so strongly dislike that almost all the focus abilities require you to physically manifest as the operator. Instead, I would love it if these abilities had been handled by adding power #6, which cycles through your available skills like Ivara's quiver or Vauban's traps: tap to select "void weaponry" or "void mode" or whatever, and hold to activate. Your warframe would just manifest the power without needing the middleman of the Operator actually appearing.

For example, if you needed to activate your Void weaponry, for instance to kill an Eidolon, you activate the power and your amp manifests like an exalted weapon. Operator energy is consumed (like it is before you get to transference), but you never stop being the Warframe. If you want to void-dash, select Void Mode and activate it, and then your Warframe is void dashing instead of sliding/bullet jumping. 

[Airwolfen]

1 hour ago, BlackCoMerc said:

If you have to qualify something with "What I MEAN when I say this is" then you havent stated your point well to begin with. Which is the (patently, observably) false pretense that Operator game play does not replace Warframe game play.

what can I say. Using it in the way they were using it is perfectly normal in the english language. And ind this case reading it in the literal sense was the pretty obviously wrong way.

If you want to reed "Operators are not here to replace warframes" as "operators do not replace warframes when I press a button" then that's on you. The first sentence was fine as it was with the intention to the meaning of it pretty clear.

[BlackCoMerc]

28 minutes ago, Airwolfen said:

what can I say. Using it in the way they were using it is perfectly normal in the english language. And ind this case reading it in the literal sense was the pretty obviously wrong way.

If you want to reed "Operators are not here to replace warframes" as "operators do not replace warframes when I press a button" then that's on you. The first sentence was fine as it was with the intention to the meaning of it pretty clear.

It took you coming back with "what I meant to say was." Ergo, you failed to make your point. 

You cannot say "dont replace Warframes" and then backtrack into "well, I didnt actually mean REPLACE..." when you said exactly that.

[(PSN)HurricaneHugo76]

I agree with alot of the sentiment here. I have been playing the game for over 2 years now. Operators/Focus was never something I was interested in seeing nor was it ever something any of the players I ever spoke to wanted to see in the game.

Operators came directly out of the intent of the devs to add something "new" to see if people will gravitate towards new content. This is the core of DE design philosophy, they design by attrition and work on what is popular. Sadly, and this is IMO, they are currently misreading the current popularity of the game as, "the players REALLY like our content", when in fact it is the business decisions and the manner by which they approach monetization which is the main source of their popularity, not any particular piece of content. But they apparently don't see that, they feel POE is the reason that Warframe is rising right now, and they are doubling down on that content in the hopes that it wil continue the trend and keep the games player number rising. That is why they already announced another open world map level.

Looking at even a more top level view I have the opinion that having 2 types of [playable characters to be a rather weird addition to the game. Operators have unique mechanics outside of warframes. Why would they make a such a decision?  How can they hope to develop 2 uniquely distinct playable characters in tandem whil adding more level design, and the regular updates and tweaks? They are not a huge game dev, and creating a game with 2 separate playable characters would take alot of infrastructure to maintain, developer wise.

That leads me to the question of what would be the best business thing to do in this case?  The answer I can think of is, replace warframes with operators totally.

Each warframe is a one off creation, meaning that is has to be designed from the ground up aesthetically and mechanically. Animation, rendering, and bug testing they all have to be done for each warframe to make sure it is playable in the game.  This represent a significant amount of time and effort as you have to create a unique warframe every time, you can't copy or use anything already in the game.

Operators though, are much easier to design and make. You only have 2 character models, male and female. Everyone wears the same type of clothing. And the animation is simplified because once again you only have to design for 2 characters. Even focus represent a form of this, instead of creating disparate and unique power mechanics for each character you play you have 4 schools which you can choose from.

Operators are just alot easier to design for and create content to and for.

This to me indicates that DE is contemplating moving towards this as in a long term dev standpoint operators represent a much simpler investment of time and resources than the current system.

 

Edited January 24, 2018 by (PS4)HurricaneHugo76

[Airwolfen]

13 minutes ago, BlackCoMerc said:

It took you coming back with "what I meant to say was." Ergo, you failed to make your point. 

You cannot say "dont replace Warframes" and then backtrack into "well, I didnt actually mean REPLACE..." when you said exactly that.

Welcome to the english language. I'm pretty sure that most people knew EXACTLY what it meant as the only one I ever see talking about operators literally replacing Warframes on the button press is you.

If you read every post in this thread that said warframes don't replace warframes as literal replacing as what character you play at the moment, then its no wonder you came with the same response on how it does with each of them.