Ember's WoF discussion; Does it deserve the hate?

[Hypernaut1]

18 minutes ago, MagPrime said:

I agree, but this is really for a different topic. 

I know...I get carried away talking about Mag Injustice sometimes. 

But on topic, old polarize was far more cheesy than WoF. Unless they want to completely rework her 4 , which they don't seem to like to do, a nerf to WoF would greatly hurt the frame. 

[MagPrime]

1 minute ago, Hypernaut1 said:

I know...I get carried away talking about Mag Injustice sometimes. 

But on topic, old polarize was far more cheesy than WoF. Unless they want to completely rework her 4 , which they don't seem to like to do, a nerf to WoF would greatly hurt the frame. 

I do as well.

And I also agree that Ember doesn't need a nerf.  How she's viewed and used is the biggest issue. 

[R3b3ll10n90s]

4 hours ago, (PS4)dZy_dEviL said:

Everytime I play with a Banshee at Hydron and they aren't using quake, I beg them to use it in chat 😂.  I'm just leveling trash and want to get it done quick.

I have quests to do, credits and resources to farm, and other frames to try out.  I welcome all nuke frames at Hydron or other leveling spots.

Everytime? You must have met her only once because everytime I met her she just run around after the wave was clear and then get to the capsule to Orz,

[(PSN)dZy_dEviL]

7 minutes ago, R3b3ll10n90s said:

Everytime? You must have met her only once because everytime I met her she just run around after the wave was clear and then get to the capsule to Orz,

I said when they "aren't" using quake.  I've played with plenty of Banshees that don't use quake probably b/c they don't wanna be spammed with hate messages.  

[(XBOX)IceTriden7]

strawman arguments everywhere, cheesus crust

[Satsuki]

No it does not.

WoF excels at killing low level trash on the star chart and becomes increasingly weaker as the enemies scale past level 50 assuming any given Ember is modding for both max efficiency and extreme range (250%+) as this typically only permits between 109-125% ability strength without energy conversion as a result.

If you think Ember makes low level missions non-interactive when you're playing, then play solo or only play pub content above level 50 (sorties, high end bounties etc). If you're a new-ish player and you want to experience everything for yourself as you rummage through the basic missions on the star chart then play solo. I guarantee that it's not just Ember that's going to cause you grief if you regularly play public matchmaking where any half-modded MR10 player you meet is going to fart and blow the entire mission away.

Similarly, players using Ember with the max efficiency/range configuration, does your e-phallus enlarge by bringing WoF cheese to easy missions and sapping any fun that low MR / inexperienced players might want to have? Then you have some issues that need working out. Try being considerate instead of being garbage.

I almost only ever use Ember when I play solo and the only reason I don't want her nerfed is because she is a magnificently efficient trash cleaner for low-mid level content, e.g. Gift of the Lotus Survival - 10 minutes of my time being wasted against level 5 enemies or some nonsense. I am not playing that in any remotely serious capacity, so I play solo, turn on max range WoF and tab out to manage my playlist in between picking up oxygen drops once every two minutes.

If you want to have to start putting in effort playing forced trash-level missions, then keep bringing that Ember into pub games with newbies and watch them come here to complain en masse. She'll be gutted before the unvaulting at this rate and you'll only have yourself to blame.

Edited January 10, 2018 by Kiryuin-Satsuki

[(PSN)watt4hem]

7 hours ago, -dicht.Goko- said:

you can say that about any frame though. 

True vets will be hard pressed to not "mow down" low level mobs in any mission, regardless of their loadout. 

You're just describing "people" here

True, but it's easier to be an a hole with a WoF ember than a trin

[tomoebi]

As a new player i dont think a veteran using ember will make newbie participate less in a mission, the veteran can use any warframe and still wipe the map clean, leaving only corpses and loot behind. This happens to me all the time when there is a mr10+ player in my team.

So its not the warframe, its the match making. I think we need conclave matchmaking when newbie will be paired with another newbie.

[Voltage]

1 hour ago, (PS4)watt4hem said:

True, but it's easier to be an a hole with a WoF ember than a trin

You realize Trinity can wipe low levels just about as efficient as Ember using Link and self damage. The only "a-hole" is the one complaining about another person getting kills in a PvE game. Whoever plays Ember and understands mechanics can wipe low levels with a multitude of setups. No one is the bad guy here.

Edited January 10, 2018 by --Q--Voltage

[(PSN)i7081277]

NO, It deserves a rework. 

[Kjahla81]

The only time I will take issue with an Ember is during Fissure missions. Seeing a max range WOF Ember kill everything before it can corrupt can sometimes effect gameplay. 

(Yes I'm aware that any map clearing frame/weapon can do this too. Which is why I would the corruption to be slighty faster but that is for a different topic.)

[Yakhul]

Basically any frame with a nuke ability like Banshee and Ember, or a visually cancerous seizure inducing frame like Limbo, will get hate.

Yes, i am one of those guys who likes fairness in every mission, so everytime i see one of these frames enter, or any player using cheap overpowered things like Atterax, i simply leave, because is no fun to just see 1 person do all the job, while the rest of us are wanting to have fun. Newer players will first be amazed at how overpowered that specific frame/weapon is, and will want to get their hands on em, until they realize that doing the same those players did, is VERY boring and it pisses off other players.

So yeah, Ember WOF deserves the current hate it has, and it needs a rework. The same goes for Limbo, the dude needs to either get entirely reworked once again, removed from the game, or reduce the range on his 4.

Same happened with Ash. Ash was one of those frames like ember, with a press4towin ability, until it got nerfed, so now you have to work to get your kills with Ash. People complained so much, but in the end, it just made ash less boring and more dynamic. People just mad they couldn't be top damage dealer anymore. The same will happen should ember WOF gets a rework.

Is just disheartening to see this frames nuke everything in front of you, when you just wanna have some fun. Going solo is not always the answer.

[TinySuperSalad]

WoF Ember is my favourite. I'm waiting for the Ember Prime unvaulting so I can forma is as much as I want.

My current Ember is still not formad as I want to save it for the Prime :D

 

#EmberForLife

#HatersBeHatin'

#EmberDinDoNuffin

#UnVaultEmberPrime

Edited January 10, 2018 by NZ_CodeBlue

[QueenKharn]

When I drop into Akkad or Hydron looking to level a weapon or frame, the last thing I want to see on my team is a WoF Ember or a Soundquake Banshee. They just suck all the engagement out of the experience. Yes, I have left session with one or more of these frame in them, however I'd prefer not too.

Having owned Ember for a long time before getting rid of her, I have to say, she needs some form or rework, specifically to WoF. It's frankly one of the most boring and least engaging skills in the game, and was a key factor in why I eventually stopped playing as her. That and I realized how it was probably sucking the fun out of the game for alot of the people I played with.

Here's hoping that DE has her on their radar, with ideas on a new 4 for her that will allow them to scale up her kit to end game, because I actually think the rest of her kit beyond her 4 is great.

[TinySuperSalad]

25 minutes ago, KokoroWish said:

When I drop into Akkad or Hydron looking to level a weapon or frame, the last thing I want to see on my team is a WoF Ember or a Soundquake Banshee. They just suck all the engagement out of the experience. Yes, I have left session with one or more of these frame in them, however I'd prefer not too.

Having owned Ember for a long time before getting rid of her, I have to say, she needs some form or rework, specifically to WoF. It's frankly one of the most boring and least engaging skills in the game, and was a key factor in why I eventually stopped playing as her. That and I realized how it was probably sucking the fun out of the game for alot of the people I played with.

Here's hoping that DE has her on their radar, with ideas on a new 4 for her that will allow them to scale up her kit to end game, because I actually think the rest of her kit beyond her 4 is great.

But isn't it better for you to leech with a OP nuke that wants to do everything for you while levelling?

[(PSN)watt4hem]

1 hour ago, --Q--Voltage said:

You realize Trinity can wipe low levels just about as efficient as Ember using Link and self damage. The only "a-hole" is the one complaining about another person getting kills in a PvE game. Whoever plays Ember and understands mechanics can wipe low levels with a multitude of setups. No one is the bad guy here.

Yeah i realize fully, hence i said it's just easier. It's not that i'm salty with people getting more kills/damage, i find them acceptable in alerts or any other missions, hek, i pulled out my energy convergence wof ember for alerts that are due in like a few minutes left.. It's just mostly the etiquette of not doing it in low level newbies around that i minded.

 

Sidenote, maybe calling people out as a holes is a bit too much. Bad habbit of replying a forum quote first thing in the morning leading to bad choice of words.

[R3b3ll10n90s]

Orz frame and Limbo deserve more hate, WoF Ember is so-so compared to them. While Orz frame wiping the entire map by just Orz-ing, on the other hand Limbo provide bullet immunity to the enemies and randomly taking people out of action. And recently I run into an MR6 dude brought Limbo into Kuva Siphon and have me in Nova carry him (while he repeatedly activate Cataclysm) which I utterly failed.

[Sibernetika]

Lol people giving banshee a pass because her ult isn't as bad... I was leveling my frost and focus farming, a banshee joined my session and for the 1st 10 waves running around trying to find something to kill was pointless, so instead I was walking around looking at wall textures trying to see if DE did a sneaky texture update or if there was any misaligned textures

[SenorClipClop]

WoF's design is just fine. Passive continual heat damage in the surrounding area at the cost of Energy is interesting and is fun to play with when combined with weapons and the rest of Ember's kit. I have an Efficiency build for melee Ember that combines Healing Return with the abundance of heat Status procs and knockdown to give Ember sustain. WoF itself is not the problem.

What's frustrating about WoF is that it's easy to succeed (and carry) in nearly all the Starchart by using WoF and only WoF. Loadouts that deal significant damage with minimal upkeep are not hard to put together, and in some cases they can interfere with others' enjoyment of the game.

Possible solutions here are many. One is to decrease WoF's base range or increase its Energy cost. This is not a great solution given the degree to which we can augment ability values. Another is to change the way WoF damages targets. It goes without saying that any ability with base damage can still be used to cheese and there's no helping that. I've suggested that the base damage of WoF be dramatically decreased, but in exchange give it scaling damage based on a percent of enemies' current health. This makes it less obliterating against weaker targets while adding a little scaling against stronger ones. It also gives WoF diminishing returns the longer it affects the same target, encouraging Ember to elimante WoF targets with more than only WoF. 

Edited January 10, 2018 by SenorClipClop

[RayxAyanami]

inb4 warframe has 0 CC frames caus people get salty :v

[----Legacy----]

It's annoying to have a warframe that either kills everything just by getting close enough to them with no need of even looking at them (low levels) or that knocks down any enemy in range and makes you miss shots with no need of even being in the same room. 

Yeah, it's as annoying as those limbos who keep stasis 24/7 and tell you to go melee without realizing that a stray glaive is frozen in place.

[RayxAyanami]

4 minutes ago, ----Legacy---- said:

It's annoying to have a warframe that either kills everything just by getting close enough to them with no need of even looking at them (low levels) or that knocks down any enemy in range and makes you miss shots with no need of even being in the same room. 

Yeah, it's as annoying as those limbos who keep stasis 24/7 and tell you to go melee without realizing that a stray glaive is frozen in place.

SO basically people don't want Crowd control ;v

[kuciol]

Ember, Saryn and Banshee are the most annoying frames to play with if you just want to play. They are very good when you need to lvl your weapons but thats just it. At everything else they are more annoying than Limbo. Limbo at least lets you play the game, granted he forces you to mele but you can play, not watch. Frames like Octavia or even Equinox are not so disruptive. Octavias mallet is line of sight skill and Equinox has to work for that dmg. DE could change the other frames to work similar to those 2. Room clears? yes please. Map wiping without any effort? Hell no.

[Prince90000]

yes nerf WoF and every other frame and make all of them as useless as mag. Balance to the infinity!

[Prince90000]

6 hours ago, Kjahla81 said:

The only time I will take issue with an Ember is during Fissure missions. Seeing a max range WOF Ember kill everything before it can corrupt can sometimes effect gameplay. 

(Yes I'm aware that any map clearing frame/weapon can do this too. Which is why I would the corruption to be slighty faster but that is for a different topic.)

please next time read patch notes or look at the screen while doing fissures, the fissures spawn corrupted enemies instantly now, dont need to wait for enemies to get corrupted anymore.