Do one handed swords need a buff?

[WindigoTG]

Just now, saradonin said:

There is more than Iron Phoenix, y'know?

And all of them have very similar combos, which defeats the purpose of having multiple combos. As well as making a stance very one-sided.

Similar as in all 3 combos within a stance are similar to one another.

 

And what's worse, they're all have combos with directional input in them, which is the worst kind of input for a combo.

[BornWithTeeth]

10 hours ago, Xardis said:

The best single sword is that one that you get for free from a quest... Yes, there is something wrong with single swords. It would be nice to have them all usable, not only Broken War. Skana series is a joke.

It is only when one builds a Zaw that one discovers the terrible truth: Sentients can’t build a truly good sword, but some grumpy baseline human in his fifties can.

[saradonin]

6 minutes ago, WindigoTP said:

And what's worse, they're all have combos with directional input in them, which is the worst kind of input for a combo.

That's entirely subjective.
Personally I prefer forward/backward combo (left one in Carving Mantis is weird on the other hand) than the pause ones. I'm not the agile type so I personally find harder to pull pause/hold combos with Berseker on. 

[Sader]

Whats the point of using a short range single handed sword when staffs do the same damage just as fast from way longer range?

Why do people use single handed weapons? Because they are lighter, faster and also give you the ability to hold offhand weapons. Quick melee attacks already kill any reasoning behind holding a weapon and a gun because you basically have access to any of your weapons pretty much instantly.

Honestly I'de like it if they would add some unique offhand options. Like a big ol' tenno riot shield, or daggers that can be thrown instantly or something.

[Sader]

29 minutes ago, WindigoTP said:

And what's worse, they're all have combos with directional input in them, which is the worst kind of input for a combo.

Wrong, directional combos are the best type of combos.

When you're running berserk, or god forbid berserk+Valkyr(or Volt), theres no way you'll ever pull off those hold combos. Those type of combos are both unrealistic and also ultimately useless. In a game like this no one in their right mind is running melee for 3+ hour survival runs and not macroing the melee attack. Since those kind of combos are useless at that level of speed DIRECTIONAL and Right Click hold combos are the best.

Any stance that has too pauses I immediately throw out as useless, this is why the Galatine stance Tempo Royale is hands down the best greatsword stance.

[BornWithTeeth]

1 hour ago, Sader said:

 

Any stance that has too pauses I immediately throw out as useless, this is why the Galatine stance Tempo Royale is hands down the best greatsword stance.

I would argue that a greater factor in Tempo Royale being great is how fluid it is, just a perfect circle of SPINNY DEATH.

[TotallyLagging]

crimson dervish, vengeful revenant, and swooping falcon are good stances and have spammable forward/RMB combos

 

1Hswords also have plenty of good weapons like dakra P, broken war, prisma skana, krohkur, and zaws

 

there are melee weapons out there that needs more attention like scythes and fists

[BornWithTeeth]

3 minutes ago, TotallyLagging said:

crimson dervish, vengeful revenant, and swooping falcon are good stances and have spammable forward/RMB combos

 

1Hswords also have plenty of good weapons like dakra P, broken war, prisma skana, krohkur, and zaws

 

there are melee weapons out there that needs more attention like scythes and fists

Zaw Polearms are some of the most ridiculously amazing melee weapons in the game right now. If you want to build a historically accurate warscythe and also laugh forever while killing absolutely everything, build Cyath-Kroostra and go hard for either Status or Crit, compensate just a little for the slow attack speed.

[(PSN)BattleCry1791]

I think it's more than just "the swords".  I think there's a not oft discussed meta with Melee.  Which doesn't mean it's completely broken, but I think it goes past tweaks.

I come from the old days pre Melee 2.0.  Back then you stacked as much damage as you could and used it when you needed to.  It wasn't really viable as a primary form of combat (unless you were Loki or Ash).  With Melee 2.0, everything changed.  And then it kept progressing in a direction where melee was only good in one of two ways.  

Either under the expectation that you would be using combo multipliers or you wouldn't...basically using it in case you ran out of ammo and had to engage in close quarters.  And to me the builds are completely different.  

Today, I was gearing for two Exterminates on Stage I and II of a Sortie, and wanted a quick hitter in case I needed a little bit extra if I ran out of ammo.  Ideally a sword because you can load up the damage like the old days and they have good speed.  I ran into a logistics problem, that I'd have to use config c or completely abandon an existing config to create a quick hitter loadout on a Nikana...and then the polarites don't always jive because big damage vs scaling combo multiplier builds can live on different planets.  

I've always been a little confused as to why the melee design was actually more effective than shooting a gun.  Especially the deeper you get into the higher game.  

Because of this, if it isn't a twirling dervish of death, it simply isn't viable unless it's specific builds.  Is anyone using Dual Zorens?  Mios?  Any single sword not Dakra or Nikana for T3  and above including Sorties?  And the dual sword stances are like cancer for me.  I see daggers every once in a while because I don't dip in the higher endgame pool very often, but when I do it's the Rakta Dark and I know which mods they're running.  And does anyone main a scythe?

Because everything is so geared towards combo multipliers and straight status or crit builds, the concept of the reliable quick hitter for everything not named War or Galatine Prime seems to have gone by the way side.  And I think that's kind of a shame.  Because swords and dual daggers/dual swords would be perfect for that purpose but it doesn't fit into the melee meta.  

Or maybe I'm overthinking it.  Until recently I was horrible with Melee builds, because I never had to be good with them.  Now I'm decent, and as a MR23 I have "all the things" to make good builds...but I find less and less space for the "quick hitter" in how melee is approached in Warframe as it's sacrificed for the higher endgame melee as a primary.

 

[BornWithTeeth]

@(PS4)BattleCry1791

If you want to be able to rack up combo meter buffs and simultaneously fight at range, switching easily between pure melee and quick melee without sacrificing combo stacks for being out of combat, that’s easy. Use the new Naramon focus tree, and what happens is that each time your combo meter times out, instead of losing all stacks, you only lose five.

 

Combine that with having a Drifting Contact mod on your weapon, and that means you could stand completely out of melee combat for a full minute and only lose 38 stacks. If you’re barreling from combat to combat, taking snapshots from shotguns and sidearms and finishing off targets with quick melee, you’ll rack up combo count and keep it.

 

The Naramon Focus tree’s melee passive sounds kinda unintuitive until you phrase it as “Have a double damage buff on your melee just for staying in combat, and we’re really stretching that definition of ‘staying in combat’ here.”

[TARINunit9]

18 hours ago, taiiat said:

ofcourse, as all of the best Melee Weapons are. high Crits, high Status, Slash weighted.

High crit chance but low crit damage, that just seems less amazing and more mediocre to me

[Sader]

7 hours ago, (PS4)BattleCry1791 said:

I think it's more than just "the swords".  I think there's a not oft discussed meta with Melee.  Which doesn't mean it's completely broken, but I think it goes past tweaks.

I come from the old days pre Melee 2.0.  Back then you stacked as much damage as you could and used it when you needed to.  It wasn't really viable as a primary form of combat (unless you were Loki or Ash).  With Melee 2.0, everything changed.  And then it kept progressing in a direction where melee was only good in one of two ways.  

Either under the expectation that you would be using combo multipliers or you wouldn't...basically using it in case you ran out of ammo and had to engage in close quarters.  And to me the builds are completely different.  

Today, I was gearing for two Exterminates on Stage I and II of a Sortie, and wanted a quick hitter in case I needed a little bit extra if I ran out of ammo.  Ideally a sword because you can load up the damage like the old days and they have good speed.  I ran into a logistics problem, that I'd have to use config c or completely abandon an existing config to create a quick hitter loadout on a Nikana...and then the polarites don't always jive because big damage vs scaling combo multiplier builds can live on different planets.  

I've always been a little confused as to why the melee design was actually more effective than shooting a gun.  Especially the deeper you get into the higher game.  

Because of this, if it isn't a twirling dervish of death, it simply isn't viable unless it's specific builds.  Is anyone using Dual Zorens?  Mios?  Any single sword not Dakra or Nikana for T3  and above including Sorties?  And the dual sword stances are like cancer for me.  I see daggers every once in a while because I don't dip in the higher endgame pool very often, but when I do it's the Rakta Dark and I know which mods they're running.  And does anyone main a scythe?

Because everything is so geared towards combo multipliers and straight status or crit builds, the concept of the reliable quick hitter for everything not named War or Galatine Prime seems to have gone by the way side.  And I think that's kind of a shame.  Because swords and dual daggers/dual swords would be perfect for that purpose but it doesn't fit into the melee meta.  

Or maybe I'm overthinking it.  Until recently I was horrible with Melee builds, because I never had to be good with them.  Now I'm decent, and as a MR23 I have "all the things" to make good builds...but I find less and less space for the "quick hitter" in how melee is approached in Warframe as it's sacrificed for the higher endgame melee as a primary.

 

This is a classic example of overthinking melee weapons. Let me give you the breakdown of how to make *Every melee weapon in the game completely viable for killing everything.

Condition Overload + Healing Return + All Dual Status mods (Blast + Corrosive) + Berserk + Pressure Point

Done. Simple, put that build on everything you own and you'll kill everything.

Condition overload is very simple, apply statuses, and have as many status types as possible. For every status you add to your weapon your damage increased by 1.6.

In your standard IPS + Blast + Corrosive build you are doing 6 statuses. If you apply 6 statuses to a target (assuming the haven't already exploded) you will do...

1.6 * 1.6 * 1.6 * 1.6 * 1.6 * 1.6 = 16 times your base damage. Which then multiplies by your combo counter.

Why did I list 6 multiplies but only 5 statuses? Because blast counts as two statuses! Blast + knockdown, immediately making it the best status in the game for Condition overload.

So, in short: 

Does a melee weapon have atleast 15% status chance? Great, Condition overload and kill everything done.

 

 

 

*Weapon must be capable of at minimum 15% status chance.

[Lost_Cartographer]

Save for a niche mod or stance, most weapons fall into one of two categories - fantastic or inferior.  Outside of niche mods, stances or functions (like Hirudo's heal on crit, or the glaives/gunblades) you CAN compare a 1h sword to a scythe, but especially 1h to 1h, heavy blade to heavy blade, etc.  Functionally, you're going to swing spam these weapons unless there's a combo/function worth using.  It's not like taking an automatic rifle versus a shotgun in the majority of cases.

Further, there are stats that are never touched, specifically, the channeling stats.  The Galatine eats 5 energy per channeled swing, same as a dagger.  It's BS.  Some of the lesser weapons in a family could be totally saved by granting them desirable channeling stats.  Shoot, I'm rather appalled the skana series (and other "newb" melee) and especially the Dakra Prime isn't channeling efficient.  That's a good learning and power boost opportunity for new players while keeping these weapons relevant later.  Or you know, when you realize they'll all be replaced by a quest reward otherwise.

Edited January 17, 2018 by Littleman88

[(PSN)BattleCry1791]

15 hours ago, BornWithTeeth said:

@(PS4)BattleCry1791

If you want to be able to rack up combo meter buffs and simultaneously fight at range, switching easily between pure melee and quick melee without sacrificing combo stacks for being out of combat, that’s easy. Use the new Naramon focus tree, and what happens is that each time your combo meter times out, instead of losing all stacks, you only lose five.

 

That's good info to have and I'm glad you piped in...however!  Somewhat defeats my purpose.  If I'm just looking for a quick hitter that's just there to compliment the Primary gun game, then I'd be using just about any other Focus tree other than Naramon or Unairu (and I might actually use Unairu for a couple of frames I'm on PS4 so we don't have focus 2.5 yet).  

9 hours ago, Sader said:

This is a classic example of overthinking melee weapons. Let me give you the breakdown of how to make *Every melee weapon in the game completely viable for killing everything.

Condition Overload + Healing Return + All Dual Status mods (Blast + Corrosive) + Berserk + Pressure Point

Done. Simple, put that build on everything you own and you'll kill everything.

Condition overload is very simple, apply statuses, and have as many status types as possible. For every status you add to your weapon your damage increased by 1.6.

In your standard IPS + Blast + Corrosive build you are doing 6 statuses. If you apply 6 statuses to a target (assuming the haven't already exploded) you will do...

1.6 * 1.6 * 1.6 * 1.6 * 1.6 * 1.6 = 16 times your base damage. Which then multiplies by your combo counter.

Why did I list 6 multiplies but only 5 statuses? Because blast counts as two statuses! Blast + knockdown, immediately making it the best status in the game for Condition overload.

So, in short: 

Does a melee weapon have atleast 15% status chance? Great, Condition overload and kill everything done.

*Weapon must be capable of at minimum 15% status chance.

This is also great info, but doesn't fit what I'm looking for and supports what I'm laying down.  Situational;

You're running on Lua or in the void, levels are getting higher, your Plasmor is out of ammo, that Heavy Gunner in front of you isn't quite dead, is about to spool up, so you slide and hit R1 a couple of times on the controller to finish her off.

Do I really need to be carrying Berserk?  On a status heavy build (which it has to be for Condition Overload)?  For a quick hitter?  And if you're carrying a Crit build primary, condition overload won't kick in until the second strike because it only activates off of existing procs prior to the hit.  So if you manage to get your soma to proc slash, that's 1 x until you take another swing.  Multiply this over 4 or 5 higher level enemies in a small area, it can be problematic.

And this becomes super effective if you're using Saryn or any other proc generating frame and if your sentinel gets a proc...just make sure that your gun, your melee, your frame, and your sentinel are all using different procs for maximum efficiency.  And I'm bad at math, so maybe I'm not understanding this correctly...but if a melee is slash heavy, say the Galatine Prime, that means it has a whopping 4.1 impact damage as it's base...so even with pressure point it's going to be > 5 points of damage as modified damage before applying the 1.6 to the overall modified damage.  And it's so low, it probably doesn't proc.  And this only works...if you actually have condition overload....and with it's .02% RNG drop rate, not everyone does.

Again, I wasn't asking for a loadout...I was lamenting the fact that the quick hitter...a melee build that compliments those of us that prefer to shoot and cast more so than melee, has been lost in the push to make melee a primary damage playstyle.  And I get it, it's fun for a lot of folks, can even be challenging with the combos.  But the design of the melee system hurts those of us that prefer to shoot as it's not easy to build those massive damage weapons that have a ceiling but can compliment your non melee playstyle. 

All you really have to ask yourself to understand my overall point is this...when you focus farm, what are you using?  Did a primary weapon even come to mind?   

 

[BornWithTeeth]

1 hour ago, (PS4)BattleCry1791 said:

l

Again, I wasn't asking for a loadout...I was lamenting the fact that the quick hitter...a melee build that compliments those of us that prefer to shoot and cast more so than melee, has been lost in the push to make melee a primary damage playstyle.  And I get it, it's fun for a lot of folks, can even be challenging with the combos.  But the design of the melee system hurts those of us that prefer to shoot as it's not easy to build those massive damage weapons that have a ceiling but can compliment your non melee playstyle. 

All you really have to ask yourself to understand my overall point is this...when you focus farm, what are you using?  Did a primary weapon even come to mind?   

 

That’s fine, but...what you’ve said here can be phrased as ‘Melee is really good when you focus on it, but that’s not fair for people who don’t focus on it. I want melee to be just as good for people who don’t use melee intensive builds.’

The answer to that is that melee should be better for players who specifically build hard into having effective melee which ramps up when they actively use it. You’re kind of asking to be able to keep your preferred playstyle and also have the benefits of another playstyle at the same time.

[(PSN)BattleCry1791]

2 hours ago, BornWithTeeth said:

You’re kind of asking to be able to keep your preferred playstyle and also have the benefits of another playstyle at the same time.

If that's your take away then I've done a horrible job at explaining my point (considering my walls of text you'd think I'd have gotten there by now).  I don't want to take away from the players that melee as a main.  What I want is to be able to equip a sword for the R1 melee that fits for the instance I'm in.  example;

I'd like to be able to make an R1 that is good to go for T3 T4 linear missions in conjunction with shooting.  Sure you can take it into an endless mission, but would have a ceiling as it doesn't stack the way melee mains do.  You can't really spec for both....it's all or none in one direction.  Stack builds lean towards low base or modified base damage relying heavily on multipliers....which doesn't bode well for R1 play.  Even in your own example, it's the dual stat mods that are preferred over their higher damage counterparts because of the status/proc chance increase.  

Most weapons in Warframe have a purpose, but with the changes to legacy weapons in the current system....as it was so elegantly described....they've become either fantastic or inferior.  Why not take some of those inferior weapons, like swords or daggers (Fang Prime lol) and crank up the base damage, but really drag down the crit and status to make them R1 specific weapons that compliment gun and casting play, but cap out and cannot compete with melee mains in the higher end game?  The Melee mains (that don't run excaliber) are all running lesions, zaws...polearms for the most part.  I don't group up, so I PUG all the time and I'm not seeing people running Nikanas, dakras etc.   This would also help the "trash riven market" which would drive more plat sales.

 

[Sader]

6 hours ago, (PS4)BattleCry1791 said:

That's good info to have and I'm glad you piped in...however!  Somewhat defeats my purpose.  If I'm just looking for a quick hitter that's just there to compliment the Primary gun game, then I'd be using just about any other Focus tree other than Naramon or Unairu (and I might actually use Unairu for a couple of frames I'm on PS4 so we don't have focus 2.5 yet).  

This is also great info, but doesn't fit what I'm looking for and supports what I'm laying down.  Situational;

You're running on Lua or in the void, levels are getting higher, your Plasmor is out of ammo, that Heavy Gunner in front of you isn't quite dead, is about to spool up, so you slide and hit R1 a couple of times on the controller to finish her off.

Do I really need to be carrying Berserk?  On a status heavy build (which it has to be for Condition Overload)?  For a quick hitter?  And if you're carrying a Crit build primary, condition overload won't kick in until the second strike because it only activates off of existing procs prior to the hit.  So if you manage to get your soma to proc slash, that's 1 x until you take another swing.  Multiply this over 4 or 5 higher level enemies in a small area, it can be problematic.

And this becomes super effective if you're using Saryn or any other proc generating frame and if your sentinel gets a proc...just make sure that your gun, your melee, your frame, and your sentinel are all using different procs for maximum efficiency.  And I'm bad at math, so maybe I'm not understanding this correctly...but if a melee is slash heavy, say the Galatine Prime, that means it has a whopping 4.1 impact damage as it's base...so even with pressure point it's going to be > 5 points of damage as modified damage before applying the 1.6 to the overall modified damage.  And it's so low, it probably doesn't proc.  And this only works...if you actually have condition overload....and with it's .02% RNG drop rate, not everyone does.

Again, I wasn't asking for a loadout...I was lamenting the fact that the quick hitter...a melee build that compliments those of us that prefer to shoot and cast more so than melee, has been lost in the push to make melee a primary damage playstyle.  And I get it, it's fun for a lot of folks, can even be challenging with the combos.  But the design of the melee system hurts those of us that prefer to shoot as it's not easy to build those massive damage weapons that have a ceiling but can compliment your non melee playstyle. 

All you really have to ask yourself to understand my overall point is this...when you focus farm, what are you using?  Did a primary weapon even come to mind?   

 

Honestly, the situation you're describing is a non issue, because ultimately you should be designing your character to do a thing, and do that thing well, very rarely is the game ever difficult enough to force my character to do the thing that its not designed to do.

Let me explain:

I have builds for the following characters: Mirage, Trinity, Valk, Nova, Volt, Excalibur, Frost, Mag, Nyx, Nezha, Saryn, Oberon, Wukong

I have other frames but these are the warframes I consider to be "solved" in my case. They have their builds and they rarely change weapons. In all cases they carry a melee weapon and a primary.

I can split these characters into categories of: Melee Heavy, Gun Heavy, Both.

I'm going to focus on my most gun heavy characters, characters that when I play I ultimately shoot with and pretty much don't ever stop shooting: Mag and Mirage

My Mag build runs a Scourge, Secura Dual Cestras and a Mewan Zaw polearm.

My Mirage runs a Scourge, Lato Vandal, and a Galatine prime.

The fact is these characters rarely if ever swing their melee weapons, in almost all cases I can probably count on one hand the amount of times I've ever bothered to swing my melee weapon on these characters. Why? Because they're designed to shoot, and shoot really well, to be forced to melee is almost a failure of the build, or at least a failure to read the mission objective correctly. My melee weapons in this case, Mewan Zaw Polearm and Galatine Prime. Are more than capable of providing that "heavy hit" you seem to want, but I could also just shoot my enemy dead and be done with it.

In the case of both Mirage and Mag, my Scourge and Secondary are so ludicrously powerful and synergistic with their skills, theres no room or need to melee. The "heavy hitting melee" i have, which I could quite easily clear the map with is ultimately pointless on these characters. Pointless to the point where I wonder why they would be worth a forum post.

If I were to talk about my melee heavy characters, the description would be the exact same but opposite. On Valkyr, Wukong, Oberon, Saryn, Nezha, Trinity, Excalibur, I vary rarely use my primary as my most effective killing tool. Opting to generally carry a weapon I find amusing to use between melee slaughter, like a Daikyu. If ever I'm forced to use my primary on these characters in a truly dire situation, it is likely because I planned incorrectly or didn't bother to read the mission type: Like bringing my Valky Prime with my Daikyu to a lephantis sortie. Could I kill Lephantis with Valkyr and a Daikyu? Probably, but why not just bring a Mirage and an Opticor instead?

Which brings us to the last category of character: Both.

In order to plan for a "both" category character you have to be willing to understand that melee ultimately will always be the stronger option when it comes to dealing with your opponents as levels progress past 100+, but there is a way to synergize weapons as long as you understand game mechanics, which is what this long winded post i'm making is about. You need to learn to design a character to fit into the role you design. Key word here is DESIGNING that character.

I've already explained to you why condition overload is very, very strong. Due to its ability to gain an immense amount of damage by stacking status' onto a target. One of my favorite characters to play is my Frost build that relies incredibly heavily on condition overload.

 

 

This is a video that shows how you can use condition overload and a gun to synergize. It also allows a gun to be useful far beyond the point where its damage no longer matters. In the case of this video I set enemies to level 120, the arca plasmor build does nearly no damage to the enemies but it does have a 100% chance to apply Impact / Radiation / Gas to my targets, setting them up to be slaughtered by my Ninkondi which is specced to do huge damage with conditon overload.

In my case my Frost does cold damage, the Ninkondi does  Blast + Corrosive, and the arca plasmor provides Gas + Radiation.

This gives us a grand total of  5 status procs, 6 because blast counts as two for a total of 1.6*1.6*1.6*1.6*1.6*1.6 = 16.77 times damage (before your combo multiplier).

My arca plasmor build, which you can see in the video, is actually not setup to do any damage at all, in my case it hits for a mere 3600 damage total. It's very existence is to pass statuses onto targets, carrying a huge mag and reloading quickly. However, many status guns can be made to do enormous damage while still providing status effects for a melee weapon to capitalize on.

And therein lies your solution: Instead of complaining that something doesn't exist. Search the game tools that currently exist and make what you want to happen a reality. There are millions of mod combinations in the game. If anyone looked at my Ammo Stock, Tactical Pump, Fatal Acceleration Arca Plasmor, they would think I was insane. Anyone who would have looked at the Ninkondi would have thought it was the most terrible weapon in the game. Yet combining Frost, a Bad Arca Plasmor build, a bad melee weapon I created a set of weapons that synergize with each other for explosive results.

The game provides the means to build what you want, just start thinking outside the box.

Edited January 18, 2018 by Sader

[--Q--Savokki]

No buff needed for single melees, add a gimmic like thrown weapons.   Being able to mix shooting and atleast quick & charge attacks, this would breathe new life to single handed weapons. In a perfect fit i would see being able to freely mix shooting to melee combos, this would provide very cool looking ways to kill enemies for a master of gun and blade.

[(PSN)BattleCry1791]

On 1/18/2018 at 12:40 PM, Sader said:

 

You took a lot of time to reply, so I wanted to 1) compliment you on your indepth post, and 2) explain to you all the things that are wrong with it.  I want to avoid a wall of text, so I'm going with bullet points.

• The very thing I'm talking about building, is a primary centric build, that uses melee and casting to accent.  Specifically Rhino, Frost, and Nova, where the heavy lifting for my builds is done by shooting.  Not looking to create synergy.
• The thing I see lacking is viable options for a "quick hitter" melee weapon that compliments the shooting game due to the way melee game play favors melee only and not as a back up/secondary item
• I'd like to see some swords and other lesser used melee weapons changed into high base damage 0%-5% status and crit weapons with a huge combo timer drop off, making them pretty much useless for combo builds but making them extremely useful as complimentary weapons for linear missions.  It would also prevent players from having to continually change builds as three configs doesn't cut it.  I basically have to leave all my polearms in full endless mission melee mode or I have to change everything around in them all the time.  I have a pretty *@##$in Guandao riven build that I never use because of this.  There's a reason why I have built multiple Krohkurs. 
• You ignored all of this and instead chose to go on an acid trip relating all the things you like to do and how you play the game.  
• Your post pretty much reeked of "just do what I do". 
• What you, and most message board folks fail to understand, is that every post represents not just an individual viewpoint but a representation of a cross section of the player base.  This list of frames you posted; Mirage, Trinity, Valk, Nova, Volt, Excalibur, Frost, Mag, Nyx, Nezha, Saryn, Oberon, Wukong...I only use two of those on a regular basis.  And five of them I might use once a month on a lark.
• I predominately use Rhino, Ember, Frost, Nidus, Loki, Nekros, and Nova.  As a MR24 on the PS4 I have all the slots...and I have builds in all of them, but I tend to stick to my endurance builds as that's what works for me.  
• We have completely different ways of playing an enjoying Warframe.  So what works for you won't work for me and vice versa from the standpoint of play style. And that isn't just limited to you and me, that's pretty much a general rule. 
• Pretty sure I proved in a previous post I don't need a lesson on Condition Overload.  
• Why would you use a puncture heavy weapon against a fossilized boss?  Any answers other than "Because I wanted to" (which is completely cool-player choice should always trump all) or "It's the best weapon I have"...not so sure you grasp the concept of damage 2.0.  
• You strike me as the kind of player that:
• Favors DPS over defense
• Utilizes one size fits all builds instead of specified builds
• I'm usually reviving in Stage III sorties.
• In no way, shape, or form, did your post add to anything on this thread

Now, as to anyone in the general audience...I think I may have found my quick hitter.  One handed zaws.  You can totally load up on the base damage.  Makes them insanely slow and useless as a melee main...but with a good riven, gilding, forma, and a Primed Fury...it does the thing I want.  Problem here, is for other players like myself who would like to have such a weapon and don't care to melee all the time...the process is a long and winding one to build it.    

And with that, I'm done with this thread. 

[Thunderchief0]

When you slash at a container 1 metre directly in front of you and miss then something is wrong. A single slash should be able to hit anything in a 45degree cone in front of you

[PR1D3]

i would argue that stances just need a little update. A lot of the newer stances have not only limited combos but additional effects on those combos. When the new ones have either better multi hit, guaranteed procs, and of course built in damage multipliers/boosts on certain parts of it they tend to do better than the old ones. There are some stances that don't have or barely have any of these things, and maybe going back to a few could help a bunch of weapons across the board. Maybe after that, we can seriously look at the melee weapons one by one.