Quartakk changes aren't completely necessary

[844448]

I'm glad that there are some changes surrounding quartakk as one of my favorite weapons when it's a newcomer, but I feel that some of the changes aren't needed or necessary. here's what i thought about the changes

• Converted the Quartakk to a burst fire that fires all 4 rounds at the same time instead of a semi auto that fires 4 bullets per shot.

I feel that quartakk has lost its unique feature where it shoot 4 bullets simultaneously to make that uniqe shotgun-rifle feeling. Now it's like most weapons in warframe, another burst weapon to add in the list. Also this makes Quartakk less useful in stealth as the burst mechanism gives the enemies that unalerted or under the effect of sleep a very small time frame to realize and get alerted, thus ruining the stealth

• Increased fire rate from 6.32 to 12.67.

Nothing to say from this one, this is the change I love to shoot more bullets on enemies. More DAKKA is always good

• Increased Accuracy from 58.8 to 90.9.

This is also a nice addition for better long range combat so i don't mind this

Reduced damage from 51 to 27.

This is what hurts me the most, the damage reduction is so severe. During my testing on my prototype meta build i can deal 950 bleed damage per tick, with nice amount of shot per trigger pull, now it drops to around 500 and becomes less powerful and lost the meaning of its high-caliber. I feel that high-caliber description is useless when it deals as much damage as Karak, a grineer assault rifle with lower caliber.

 

I hope you would consider about this changes and don't mind reverting some changes that seem unnecessary, which is 50% of the changes

Regards,

844448

[Airwolfen]

And now consider what will happen if Munitions drops off. from that point the current build will outpace the old version easily.

[Emulad0or]

So, before you could deal 1 bleed proc in x time for 950 damage/tick...

Now, you can deal 2 bleed procs in x time for 500 damage/tick each...

I know Math is not easy, but if you deal 500/tick but shoots twice as fast, how is this bad again?

[Arrichion]

Thing is, the change you liked the most (increased fire rate) can't be applied without the change you liked the least (reduced damage from 51 to 27).

 

EDIT: The change to accuracy made it possible to add heavy caliber with virtually no downsides as well, so you can still have something that works a great deal like the old Quartakk did if you invest the forma required.

Edited January 18, 2018 by Arrichion

[Aeon94]

I know damage reduction ( 51 to 27 ) is a bit much , I wouldn't mind some damage increase tho.

But it feels better now , I hated shotgun feel of Quartakk and glad that is changed to quad-burst.

[SnuggleBuckets]

58 minutes ago, 844448 said:

I feel that quartakk has lost its unique feature where it shoot 4 bullets simultaneously to make that uniqe shotgun-rifle feeling. Now it's like most weapons in warframe, another burst weapon to add in the list. Also this makes Quartakk less useful in stealth as the burst mechanism gives the enemies that unalerted or under the effect of sleep a very small time frame to realize and get alerted, thus ruining the stealth

This is completely false and I'm surprised you're spreading this kind of misinformation since you claim you've tested it.
The patchnotes stated they changed it to burst fire, BUT made it shoot all four bullets at the same time, and not in a burst.
So ultimately it might be in the underlying mechanism a burst fire rifle instead of a semi-auto, but is still functionally the same old semi-auto rifle that fires 4 bullets at once, just with better status chance.
If I had to speculate, they changed it like this to address the status chance complaints, and used burst fire as a clunky workaround in the limited code to change the status calculation from the previous shotgun like sum of all pellets to individually calculate status per projectile (whilst still technically firing 4 bullets at once, functionally like a shotgun, just using different calculations under the hood).

If you were claiming that they falsely advertised their change or somehow bungled and didn't manage to make the Quartakk shoot all 4 bullets at exactly the same time, thus creating that small window where AI can get alerted of getting hit before the rest of the 3 bullets land, then you'd have a reasonable complaint.
But that's not what you wrote now, is it?

[MirageKnight]

3 hours ago, 844448 said:

I'm glad that there are some changes surrounding quartakk as one of my favorite weapons when it's a newcomer, but I feel that some of the changes aren't needed or necessary. here's what i thought about the changes

• Converted the Quartakk to a burst fire that fires all 4 rounds at the same time instead of a semi auto that fires 4 bullets per shot.

I feel that quartakk has lost its unique feature where it shoot 4 bullets simultaneously to make that uniqe shotgun-rifle feeling. Now it's like most weapons in warframe, another burst weapon to add in the list. Also this makes Quartakk less useful in stealth as the burst mechanism gives the enemies that unalerted or under the effect of sleep a very small time frame to realize and get alerted, thus ruining the stealth

• Increased fire rate from 6.32 to 12.67.

Nothing to say from this one, this is the change I love to shoot more bullets on enemies. More DAKKA is always good

• Increased Accuracy from 58.8 to 90.9.

This is also a nice addition for better long range combat so i don't mind this

Reduced damage from 51 to 27.

This is what hurts me the most, the damage reduction is so severe. During my testing on my prototype meta build i can deal 950 bleed damage per tick, with nice amount of shot per trigger pull, now it drops to around 500 and becomes less powerful and lost the meaning of its high-caliber. I feel that high-caliber description is useless when it deals as much damage as Karak, a grineer assault rifle with lower caliber.

 

I hope you would consider about this changes and don't mind reverting some changes that seem unnecessary, which is 50% of the changes

Regards,

844448

You do realize that DPS is the same due to the corresponding increase in ROF and the fact that damage is now per bullet (4 total)...right?

Also, these changes arguably amount to a buff. It's now a very reliable status weapon (easily reaching a 93%+ status chance per bullet with 3 dual stat elemental mods) that can also be built as a hybrid crit / status weapon. It's also a bit more fun to use thanks to it now being semi-auto with a decent fire rate.

 

All it needs is an alt fire mode where you go full auto at the expense of some recoil and slight loss in accuracy. That would be perfect for mowing down large mobs.

[Windy_Wind]

well relying on hunter munition "meta" isn't gonna get your guns anywhere once damage 2.5 drop. The double fire rate and the damage reduction are to make sure the gun does the same dps as before so I don't mind. The big  thing here is the status chance mechanic change, it turns the gun into a beast of status and crit hybrid. The faster firate also make it proc corrosive faster thus kill things faster. 

[taiiat]

Quartakk is natively built for Crit Slash - and now it's much more capable of that.
don't need 5 Status Mods, and don't need a Rate of Fire Mod.

Quartakk doesn't even 'need' Hunter Munitions. it does that natively with high Status.

[Sloan441]

1 hour ago, Windy_Wind said:

well relying on hunter munition "meta" isn't gonna get your guns anywhere once damage 2.5 drop. 

We don't know this. We don't know much of anything about what DE is planning at present. 
IF...and it's a big if at this point...IF they decide to rebalance the relationships within the IPS physical damage paradigm, then slash will probably be somewhat less effective than it is now--since it's completely overwhelming at present. 

HM will still have a place on some weapons, mostly likely those with low base damage, high crit rates, and high RoF. 

Quartakk might not be one of them right now. The new Quartakk...still not sure quite what to think of it since I've only just revised it and have only used it in one mid-tier mission. It's more flexible than it was and I'm much less inclined to use HM on it. It's status effects are no longer held hostage by the shotgun paradigm; now you can build it like a rifle and it responds accordingly. 

I'm running a 90% status, crit-based corrosive (one combo) build on it at present--with Heavy Caliber. It seems to work, but I suspect I might move more towards RoF in this build. Needs some simulacrum time to see what's what. 

I actually like the weapon more now. It's less clumsy to use. It might find a home on Titania for her corrosive armor-stripping loadout. 

[Pixues]

Removed my post (i used wrong stats)

Edited January 18, 2018 by Pixues

[Cytobel]

I've been testing the new version, and I've gotta say I'm happy with MOST of the changes.

First off, the "burst rifle" change does NOTHING to change the way the weapon "feels", it only changes the way the Quartakk applies Status.  In this it is GOLDEN, as burst rifles apply Status beautifully and shotguns DON'T (aside from 100%).  I've not seen ANY stealth changes yet, but if they do exist I don't even care.  Not when you actually gain a second build on this gun.

Next, the RoF buff is good.  Nothing else to say.

Third, the accuracy.  Quartakk is now much better about grouping those shots.  Good good.

Finally, the damage.  I feel like we have more build variety, more possibilities for this gun.  I get that DE had to have a trade-off somewhere, but I feel as if we lost a small amount more than we needed to.  I do have a build that performs ALMOST as well against lvl 150 C. Bombards, hitting the same 8-shot kill most of the time, but it's slightly less certain to do it.  On the other hand my accuracy helps...  I don't know, we would be closer to even in the trade if it was 32 damage a bullet.

EDIT:  The stealth issues are not something I apply to this gun, but rather to stealth itself.  Stealth in Warframe needs some help still, and this gun's woes in that regard mirror larger issues in that system.

Edited January 18, 2018 by Cytobel

[844448]

10 hours ago, Emulad0or said:

So, before you could deal 1 bleed proc in x time for 950 damage/tick...

Now, you can deal 2 bleed procs in x time for 500 damage/tick each...

I know Math is not easy, but if you deal 500/tick but shoots twice as fast, how is this bad again?

it was 4 shots in one trigger pull with 47.5% chance to crit on each bullet, i was able to see up to 4 slash procs per pull, although there's no change on the crit chance, the damage per tick is 500 x 4, while i was able to deal 950 x 4 bleed tick

10 hours ago, Arrichion said:

Thing is, the change you liked the most (increased fire rate) can't be applied without the change you liked the least (reduced damage from 51 to 27).

 

EDIT: The change to accuracy made it possible to add heavy caliber with virtually no downsides as well, so you can still have something that works a great deal like the old Quartakk did if you invest the forma required.

about the fire rate, it's quite needed remembering the old fire rate was 1.53 and you need speed trigger to increase it to 2.35, and i was thinking that we could get 2.0 or 2.5 for fire rate after change

9 hours ago, SnuggleBuckets said:

This is completely false and I'm surprised you're spreading this kind of misinformation since you claim you've tested it.
The patchnotes stated they changed it to burst fire, BUT made it shoot all four bullets at the same time, and not in a burst.
So ultimately it might be in the underlying mechanism a burst fire rifle instead of a semi-auto, but is still functionally the same old semi-auto rifle that fires 4 bullets at once, just with better status chance.
If I had to speculate, they changed it like this to address the status chance complaints, and used burst fire as a clunky workaround in the limited code to change the status calculation from the previous shotgun like sum of all pellets to individually calculate status per projectile (whilst still technically firing 4 bullets at once, functionally like a shotgun, just using different calculations under the hood).

If you were claiming that they falsely advertised their change or somehow bungled and didn't manage to make the Quartakk shoot all 4 bullets at exactly the same time, thus creating that small window where AI can get alerted of getting hit before the rest of the 3 bullets land, then you'd have a reasonable complaint.
But that's not what you wrote now, is it?

during pre-change, i main quartakk to do adaro stealth for focus farming. Level 35 bombards that i met always die with one shot from pre-change quartakk on the body shot, now they don't since the burst is pretty fast, but still leave the bombard getting alerted from the shots. I don't know if i can see the change due to a lot of playing or 60 fps that i recently got but i can see that pre-change quartakk shoots 4 bullets at once, like shotgun pellets while post-change quartakk has that burst in a very short time frame, and i'm able to detect this with my eye

6 hours ago, MirageKnight said:

You do realize that DPS is the same due to the corresponding increase in ROF and the fact that damage is now per bullet (4 total)...right?

Also, these changes arguably amount to a buff. It's now a very reliable status weapon (easily reaching a 93%+ status chance per bullet with 3 dual stat elemental mods) that can also be built as a hybrid crit / status weapon. It's also a bit more fun to use thanks to it now being semi-auto with a decent fire rate.

 

All it needs is an alt fire mode where you go full auto at the expense of some recoil and slight loss in accuracy. That would be perfect for mowing down large mobs.

old stats were 200 damage for all bullets, similar to shotgun mechanism where total damage is based on number or multishot. the old mechanism was 200 damage and i was able to crank up elemental damage to 2000 per shot because of that, although maybe an alternate fire mode to change it back to semi-auto would be a way to get the old feeling back

[844448]

10 hours ago, Airwolfen said:

And now consider what will happen if Munitions drops off. from that point the current build will outpace the old version easily.

still does it better with Hunter Munitions + viral combo though, even with old version

[Cytobel]

I'm running a Viral + Hunter Munitions + Vigilante Armaments build right now, and things are MORE than working out.  3 Formas, all Vs.  The gun still does some work.

[Emulad0or]

1 hour ago, 844448 said:

it was 4 shots in one trigger pull with 47.5% chance to crit on each bullet, i was able to see up to 4 slash procs per pull, although there's no change on the crit chance, the damage per tick is 500 x 4, while i was able to deal 950 x 4 bleed tick

And now you can pull the trigger twice in the same amount of time, so it is 500 x 4 x 2... You are completely ignoring the firerate buff to criticize the damage decrease, and that alone invalidates the point you are trying to make here

[844448]

I find that reduction on damage is pretty unnecessary, since the fire rate of 2 can make this weapon deadly enough, especially when you can deal 950 x 4 x 2 with a mid ranked speed trigger