Dev Workshop: Warframes Revisited

[Almagnus1]

14 minutes ago, Zahnny said:

I wasn't stating Nova is bad just that her abilities tend to rely on Molecular Prime. I wasn't counting Wormhole as it's more of a movement skill than an active combat skill.

So how do you think Mesa players would feel if DE announced they were going to axe Shattershield?

That's effectively what the WoF nerf Ember is getting is going to play out as because nothing else in her kit even remotely allows for the level of CC that WoF + Firequake [augment] allows, on top of a warframe that's fairly squishy - even as the primed version.

[Robutt]

2 minutes ago, GinKenshin said:

the devs need to scrap wof and give us something new. What’s wrong with wof is it’s concept 

This is very true, the ability has seen very little change over the years aside from the occasional nerf.

[Yachooo]

3 minutes ago, Lancars said:

*sighs* yea. Mag was my first Warframe so i care a lot. But unless you're a Reddit post with high point, Friend with a Dev or A Warframe Partner streamer your words don't go anywhere. It wasn't like this a bit back but now the see of angst washes away everything.

Mine first to.And proud owner of mag prime so all of this hurt me a bit. One thing that we can do is wait and try to make post that matters. Maybe someday devs will take ouer suggestions

[Vance.Stubbs]

Just now, Cryptix123 said:

Nidus was released in December 2016 with Update 19.5

Gara was released in October 2017 with Update 22.0

In that time the following items were released:

- Shotgun and Secondary Rivens

- Infested Salvage

- Hema

- Hirudo

- The Helminth Cure

- Ohma

- Sovereign Outcast

- Astral Autopsy

- Ayatan Anasa Sculptures

- Quick Steel Conclave Mode

- Taxon

- Defection PVE Mode

- Ferrox

- Ignis Wraith

- Octavia

- Tenora

- Pandero

- Captura

- Helminth Charger

- Cycron

- Oberon Rework

- Ambulas Rework

- Endura

- Cyclone Kraken

- Harrow

- Scourge

- Knell

- Guandao

- Zakti

- Jat Kusar

- Lenz

- Hydroid Rework

- Hydroid Prime

- Ballistica Prime

- Nami Skyla Prime

- Arca Plasmor

- Arca Sciscor

- Arca Titron

- Plains of Eidolon!!

- Gara

- Volnus

- Astilla

- Zaws

- Amps

- Augur, Vigilante, and Gladiator Mod Sets

- Volt Rework

- Mirage Prime

- Kogake Prime

- Akbolto Prime

- Quartakk

- Stubba 

- Gunsen

Which brings us to present day. Note that I did not include any bugfixes, warframe augments, events, and no doubt I missed some things as well.

 

 

Nice long post which completely missed my point. 

OP states that DE updates and balances the game consistently, which is abolutely not true, as the majority of patches only bring new generic stuff like weapons, warframes and cosmetics, while completely ignoring mechanics that were left abandonned years ago, only some Frame/Weapon reworks come though and that's it. If current rebalance becomes a trend, it would be welcomed, but stating that DE pays attention to the balance consistently is beyong ridicilous.

PS: as you mentioned "other games'" updates adding "new content once a quarter", Path of Exile for example, another F2P grindy PvE game, rolls out patches with both new content and balance overhauls at much more consistent rate and they don't threat game balance as rocket science, like many apologists from forums think.

[(PSN)Dublincore]

1 hour ago, Marine027 said:

Also coulld we first try it out maybe before dooming it all.

Yes please. Same goes for all the upcoming changes

[DreamsmithJane]

6 minutes ago, DroopingPuppy said:

It is false because it doesn't insta-kill anything by just walking, nor it have so insane range. It only have about 21m range, and the fire bursts has limited numbers so it needs to hit the enemy.

 

Also it is false that 10.875m is fine either. It is so close enough to make the melee attack. You better use the slide attack with some long ranged melee weapon and have much better result, and you don't need for an Ember.

I never said "insta-kill", but it actually does do that in most of the star chart. And it has the range I said when you use the mods I said, so that's also true. And yes, it needs to hit the enemy to do damage, so be in range, or re-cast it, or don't rely on running WoF constantly.

Everything I said was true. You are apparently not understanding me, and I'm sorry for that, but there doesn't seem to be anything I can do about it.

[GarnetSan]

Ok, so, just an idea here, see how you guys like it. Make petrify a one handed ability and remove it's speed penalty. Picture Volt's shield picked up. You cast petrify with your left hand while you shoot with your right hand's secondary.

Also, any attacks coming through the petrify cone have a reduced damage, make it a heavy tanking ability, great for shielding yourself while taking on a boss and the like(Since we essentially get atlas by killing juggernauts, how about making him able to stop his quills attack to a certain degree? It would make sense lore-wise, at least).

As an extra comment on the rework, when he casts Petrify on landslide, for the love of god, make the wall get bigger! Unless you are on the grineer Galleon or Asteroid tile, it's blocking capabilities are nonexistent. It's like putting your backpack on your highschool's main hallway, expecting it to stop every student when the bell tolls.

[F8ted]

Pretty sure this is just going to buff ember. I spent most my mods on power strength, and I'm pretty sure this is a free blind rage. Range nerf? K, guess I'll swap intensify with augur reach. Still a buff.

[-Shavo-]

These changes for Ember take her out of the game for the moment. The already difficult late game will be impossible to play her right now. Under level 30 the complete nerfs can be counter acted with ovextended resulting in -10% range and +40% damage with a greater loss of energy at the 100% stacks. I think you missed the target here. It will just take Ember 15 seconds to rush the content again like always.

I realy hope that you have a complete Ember rework in the pipe and that this nerf is just a short term solution. It would be great if you finaly make Ember a real caster. Let her throw fireballs, waves of fire or what ever and give her an active playstyle. I main her since the beta and even for me the run WoF and cast Accelerant for low to mid level and WoF with Firequake for high level is boring but love her fire theme and her design too much to not play her.

Edited February 3, 2018 by Yamichi

[taiiat]

i assume you mean along with like, dividing the Damage Resist value of Overheat by like, 3, right?

5 minutes ago, GinKenshin said:

no she doesn’t need overheat, the devs need to scrap wof and give us something new. What’s wrong with wof is it’s concept 

i sort've agree - but World on Fire could work via being something of a primer for the other Abilities, where World on Fire doesn't do much on it's own but the other Abilities radically increase the effectiveness of it.

and then if each 'explosion' on World on Fire is changed from a single Enemy hit to an actual like, geyser-esque explosion of fire? would be some very pretty VFX to go along with, and able to be very effective in an active manner via the other Abilities heavily feeding into it.

 

or a new Ability entirely, i'd be fine with that.

[Almagnus1]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)Dublincore said:

Yes please. Same goes for all the upcoming changes

Would you have said the same thing about the Damage 2.5 changes?

[Keyhound]

Hello there Fellow Tenno.

First of all, im glad to see that DE is still trying to make Mag a better and overall more fun frame to use. however, i think that in order to balance thigns out, and set her apart from other frames with some similar skills, DE ended up making Mag into a more generic warframe. Dont get me wrong, she is one of my favorite frames, i really like the idea of a character capable of manipulating magnetism, but unfortunatelly, thats NOT what Mag really is. 

 

Right now, Mag is just another frame capable pf creating death zones like oberon, vauban, limbo or octavia(and more) or a frame capable of recharging shields, like Harrow, Volt, or Trinnity. her magnetize is incredibly fun to use, but its also very situational, her pull can be used for cc, but its effects dont last long enough to compensate its long cast time. on the other hand, her polarize is mostly used to refil shields, since its strip capabilites is very limited, even with max power, and multiple casts, but even then, most players cant really make use of it, since(at least until now) warframe doesnt have a shield gate, and since shields dont gain bonus from armor, it can be stripped incredibly fast. finally her crush was meant to be the ultimate skill in the game, but now it takes too long, leave her open to enemy attacks, and even if she has the mod equiped, is unable to actually make use of it in most situations.

 

so i decided to look into what Mag is supposed to be, and see if i could find a middle ground of reworking her skills, making her unique, while keeping the spirit of how her skills work.

in a way, this "rework" is meant to change her into a frame that becomes stronger against stronger enemies, and that is able to use their defenses against themselves.. 

 

P) passive: right now, Mag is able to pull items towards her when she bullet jump, however, while it may have been usefull at one point, the speed of bullet jumping and the new vacuum(both the universal and the sentinel mod), made it much less effective, if at all noticeable, so instead, i would actually change it for a larger natural vacuum.

1)Pull: Like pointed out before, pull is an usefull cc ability, but its not as good as it should be, so instead, pull should also gain a stripping property, i would say around 5-10% of the enemy armor or enemy max shield. and like polarize, create shards she can later use as well. Pull would also gain a secondary effect; Mag can use it to pull shards to herself, if its an armored unit, it will create a Yellow shard, that will give bonus armor, if its a shield unit, it will create a blue shard that will give her overshield/refill her shield, and if its an infested unit, it will have a low chance to create a health globe. her mod would need a bit of a rework, like stated, its pretty underwhelming as it's effects arent worth the cost of equipping it. In its place i would give pull a very small chance to pull an energy orb(10% when maxed) from enemies it hit(not killed, as it is now). 

2)Magnetize: Mag's bubble still is her most iconic skill, and is already strong enough as it is. however, with the changes to pull, i belive magnetize should also sinergize; by entering a bubble mag will cast out her bonus armor/overshield, and add it to the shards already in it. not only that, mag can also use pull to control the bubble(and like volt's shield it would cost energy as it is in use), and even collide it with another to stack the enemies inside and the shards/damage, giving her a mobile use of the skill that could be utilized in multiple inventive and fun ways.(like collecting multiple enemies not already inside the bubble, or swinging it around like a giant club, or maybe using it like a giant shield that she can aim to defend herself or others. her mod would stay basicaly the same, 

3)Polarize: similarly to pull, Polarize should still strip armor and shields, however, being able to magnetize enemies, mag should also be able to affect their weapons, ranged weapons will gain a penalty for accuracy, meanwhile melee attackers will have more dificulty swinging their weapons, making them attack slower. her mod would also require no changes.

4)Crush: Crush is a skill that, in theory, makes sense, but because of how damage works, it end up being less pratical and more dangerous to use as enemies get stronger, however, Mag should be the opposite, her crush should become more powerfull based on the amount of armor/shield the enemy has (since she is using that weight to crush the enemies inside). The way i would do it would be for crush to deal damage directly to the enemy hp, based on its armor(in the case of the grineer) or shield(in the case of corpus) and turn them into a crushed mass dealling damage per second while they are in that "crushed" state and it would last based on its duration. for its mod, i would change it so when killed, enemies will explode dealing a % of their max health(similar to mods like acid shells or vulcan blitz but probably not as strong)in an area, affected by range mods.

 

so there it is, its not perfect, but i belive that making her closer to a "the bigger they are the harder they fall" while also giving her more control over the battlefield, is the way to make her better.

Edited February 3, 2018 by Keyhound

[SSI_Seraph]

The funny thing is that the circle will never end. People whinning on the forums and reddit about embers and RQ banshee will just move to another AOE frame after this just like they did with ash, limbo's nuke reworked 4 and literally every fix/nerf because what they all having in common is clearing trash quickly. 

At this point they should just give every AOE %hp damage to insure it's never gonna be bad and will still leave ennemies on low level healthy for a longer period of time so that people that love their unmodded gunplay and wasting time so much on Hydron get some stuff to shoot at.  

Losing double your range and amping your drain for doubling your damage should "push her endgame viablity" lol. Have you guys checked ennemy scaling recently, doubling your damage is laughable at best and getting in range to deal that damage just means certain death for a squishy frame. 

Edited February 3, 2018 by SSI_Seraph

[Prophet92]

As i see ovar all channges are a welcomed sight, all exept embers. In higher level content the damage falls of quait fast so most people don't build the ability for damage rather cc via firequake augment and efficiency. Withe changes proposed makes moding for upkeep is realy taxing on the builds (not to mention energyzing dashes enery regen does not work since it is a chanelling ability) and making the rest of the abilitys useles. So what i propose since the intent was to make this more situational and used when needed, making it be duration based again, but with recastability.

[(PSN)majid52]

Dont rework ember and banshee pls we dont have time for realize all activities in warframe kuva sorties raids poe....need warframe to farm xp ty

[schilds]

They've *proposed* changes before actually making them to get feedback.

 

That's what people are giving.

[Robutt]

Just now, F8ted said:

Pretty sure this is just going to buff ember. I spent most my mods on power strength, and I'm pretty sure this is a free blind rage. Range nerf? K, guess I'll swap intensify with augur reach. Still a buff.

My issue isn't with the range nerf, it is with the energy cost. It's excessive considering Ember already chews through energy like a starving animal. I generally build her mid-ranged with maxed strength, and the problem is you need to use Accelerant on enemies with heaps of armor like napalms; you wont be able to afford this if you do not own Primed Flow. 

[taiiat]

so by the way you describe in your OP, like Mag meaning in that Players don't understand how the Abilities work at all and say everything is useless when that's definitely not true wholesale and is only partially true at best? :)

Accelerant doesn't rely on any other Abilities, it makes everything Ember has drastically better. 
Fire Blast does what it is supposed to do for the most part, clear Enemies out of an area. the Ring having a 100% Status Chance would give it some reliable use as always but there's a nice uh.... 139 page Ability discussion thread that has many possibilities proposed for the Ring via introducing new mechanics.

Fireball lacks purpose other than DPS for sure, ironically one could say (for those that remember when the opposite thing was said by Digital Extremes even if that meant some very uninteresting things at that time), Fireball should learn from Freeze, via leaving a lingering object in the world and the Abilities as a whole making use of it.

 

but it comes back to the same usual things then - Ember is capable of dealing Damage at high Levels, you just won't do it with the same garbage the internet keeps bouncing around that's entirely focused on AFK'ing Lv20 Missions. you're going to have to use the Warframe differently.
doesn't mean there aren't issues but unfortunately it is the few that understand the Warframes, not the many.
but, such comes when Players have only used one of the Abilities and are oblivious of the traits the others bring, and that those Abilities could probably solve their problems.

Edited February 3, 2018 by taiiat

[BadWeatherGaming]

RIP Ember, was fun while it lasted. Now she will just bleed out in the storage spot of the ship listening to "Sound of Sorrow" over and over.

[Glavenusaur]

8 minutes ago, Vance.Stubbs said:

PS: as you mentioned "other games'" updates adding "new content once a quarter", Path of Exile for example, another F2P grindy PvE game, rolls out patches with both new content and balance overhauls at much more consistent rate and they don't threat game balance as rocket science, like many apologists from forums think.

So you've done game balances before on huge games like warframe? because if you haven't you're making yourself sound pretty silly making comparisons without even having a shred of knowledge on how difficult game balancing is or is not.

[HolySeraphin]

19 minutes ago, dataman88 said:

in case you never played anything harder than Neptune, nobody use ember in Sortie for damage. They maximize on range for WoF Augment, which dropped enemies like blast proc for the CC,

here's a tip for you: CC beats damage everytime. especially in level 50+. So, congratulations, you whining babies who armed with Gorgons are basically nagging DE to make a mediocre frame to become trash. clap clap.

By the way I gave a suggestion for a more reasonable change for WoF if you haven´t noticed my other comment. I also use WoF for CC but I still think it is very annoying at lower levels (and I DO USE ember for farming too)

 

"My ideas fro Ember to make other skills more relevant while still leaving WoF good:

Fireball: Leaves 5m AoE on the target´s feet that deals damage for a few seconds

WoF: The damage falls off with distance (50% at max range, in other words 200) but in turn Ember gradually gets an "overheat". This overheat increases energy cost of WoF by 200% when fully charged (takes 15 seconds) but in turn buffs the other abilities with special effects like:

1:Fireball: Fires three instead of 1 (spread)

2:Accelerant gets damage buff

3:Fireblast: 6 fireballs will fall towards the enemies at the beginning of the animation, pretty much like a meteor shower"

Edited February 3, 2018 by HolySeraphin

[schilds]

10 minutes ago, F8ted said:

K, guess I'll swap intensify with augur reach. Still a buff

Which will reduce the strength of abilities like accelerant.

[rune_me]

Just now, Glavenusaur said:

So you've done game balances before on huge games like warframe? because if you haven't you're making yourself sound pretty silly making comparisons without even having a shred of knowledge on how difficult game balancing is or is not.

I've never cooked a 5-star 2000 dollars meal in my life. So you're saying that if I bought one at a restaurant and they served me cat food on a tray I'm not allowed to complain about it, because I "don't have a shred of knowledge on how difficult" it is to cook a 5-star meal? Sorry, that's nonsense.

[Vance.Stubbs]

Just now, Glavenusaur said:

So you've done game balances before on huge games like warframe? because if you haven't you're making yourself sound pretty silly making comparisons without even having a shred of knowledge on how difficult game balancing is or is not.

I don't have to be a certified cook to tell that food tastes bad or a game designer to tell that game balance is a pretty sad state. But please, we may also close all feedback sections and only be allowed to mindlessly praising devs, because MAKING GAMEZ IS HARD!

Also, Warframe balance is not nowhere as complex as Path of Exile balance, since, for example, current Warframe meta offers little to no creativity for players' builds.

[Zahnrad]

17 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

So how do you think Mesa players would feel if DE announced they were going to axe Shattershield?

That's effectively what the WoF nerf Ember is getting is going to play out as because nothing else in her kit even remotely allows for the level of CC that WoF + Firequake [augment] allows, on top of a warframe that's fairly squishy - even as the primed version.

I wouldn't be too bothered. It's an armor ability but if you can survive long enough it doesn't do that much.