Update 22.12.0: Weapons Changes Feedback Megathread

[mazzinia]

 

5 minutes ago, Recel said:

Beam weapons now waste a ton of ammo on doing a fraction of their actual damage

Exactly. My question, now, is if DE is open to listen about this issue

[Recel]

10 minutes ago, mazzinia said:

 

Exactly. My question, now, is if DE is open to listen about this issue

Knowing DE, they won't touch Beam weapons for another two-three years.

[mazzinia]

Maybe, but they also said in writing that these changes are subject to feedbacks and tuning... 

[TwilitAngel]

I honestly don't find the ramp up that bad, but after seeing everyone lose their minds over it... I haven't seen anyone suggest the beam ramp up just be changed to the gun itself and not "per target" as people have said it currently is. I do agree with some points made like Convextrix never dealing full damage because of the firing mechanic, but that will probably be looked at. I do find fire rate not useful on them right now, so possibly we'll see a change when people calm down about the issue and address it more professionally.

My suggestion would be to move the ramp up from "per target" to the weapon, maybe increase the ramp up time to 3 seconds, and let fire rate reduce the ramp up time. Possibly increasing the ramp up starting damage to at least 25%. Slower firing beams take more time to ramp up. Makes sense to me. It would be cool if the sound team made some sounds for the ramp up too.

I think the issue they are trying to address is not just holding the fire key down and spinning around watching everything die without really aiming. Or even just tapping the fire key and instakilling things. DE should be more clear as to why they make changes like this so the community doesn't go crazy. The only thing mentioned is that they're trying to balance them because they know how strong they are.

Edited February 23, 2018 by TwilitAngel

[(PSN)lhbuch]

In a hoard based game, having both ramp up and reseting the dmg per target is a terrible idea. Really terrible.

With this, players will MOST of the time deal only a fraction of the weapon damage.

It looks wonderful on simulacrum vids with invulnerability turned on but on real gameplay, when iyou really need a weapon to do damage, you dont have that extra time to ramp up the damage.

Picture a survival with at least a respectable level, you kill a trash mob doing 100k damage , turn around and see an eximus HG and think, great lets start with 10k, maybe in a couple seconds he will be dead.

[POIKILO]

5 hours ago, TwilitAngel said:

I honestly don't find the ramp up that bad, but after seeing everyone lose their minds over it... I haven't seen anyone suggest the beam ramp up just be changed to the gun itself and not "per target" as people have said it currently is.

I haven't see anyone losing their minds over the damage ramp up...everyone's rightfully losing their minds over the damage ramp up per target.

The single target beam weapons were probably hit the hardest with the damage ramp up mechanic, and lots of people have provided feedback on it. There appears to be a consensus that if the damage ramp up mechanic stays, there should be differences in the ramp up times for the individual single-target beam weapons. The beam weapons are unique and trying to slap on umbrella mechanics won't work well due to each weapon's unique behavior. Phage doesn't work like Amprex, Glaxion doesn't work like Convectrix, and you certainly don't see Ignis behaving like Quanta. I honestly don't know where you're reading but I'm also seeing people saying the damage ramp up should be applied to the individual weapons, like the ramp up times not only could be different but also be affected by fire rate mods, for example. However, everyone seems to agree that the "damage ramp up per target" mechanic is bad.

DE panic-nerfed the beam weapons literally the day after they buffed them because they realized they made beam weapons as strong (some stronger) than other weapon types. Most single target beam weapons went from dusty arsenal accessories to being useful, but then immediately became shelved again after the "damage ramp up per target" came into play. DE said in their original workshop "damage ramping up from 10% to 100% over 0.8 seconds when firing and decays back to 10% over 1 second after stopping." They said nothing about it being "when firing at a target." Everyone thought it was a conventional damage ramp up, like how Gorgon and Soma work.

Of course the "damage ramp up per target" nerf made people upset. They have the right to be upset because it was a careless and thoughtless move on DE's part. And it was even worse for DE to try and pass it off as a BUG FIX when it very clearly stated in their original workshop post that the first implementation damage ramp up mechanic was intended.

 

Edited February 24, 2018 by POIKILO
clarification

[Fallen_Echo]

7 hours ago, POIKILO said:

I haven't see anyone losing their minds over the damage ramp up...everyone's rightfully losing their minds over the damage ramp up per target.

The single target beam weapons were probably hit the hardest with the damage ramp up mechanic, and lots of people have provided feedback on it. There appears to be a consensus that if the damage ramp up mechanic stays, there should be differences in the ramp up times for the individual single-target beam weapons. The beam weapons are unique and trying to slap on umbrella mechanics won't work well due to each weapon's unique behavior. Phage doesn't work like Amprex, Glaxion doesn't work like Convectrix, and you certainly don't see Ignis behaving like Quanta. I honestly don't know where you're reading but I'm also seeing people saying the damage ramp up should be applied to the individual weapons, like the ramp up times not only could be different but also be affected by fire rate mods, for example. However, everyone seems to agree that the "damage ramp up per target" mechanic is bad.

DE panic-nerfed the beam weapons literally the day after they buffed them because they realized they made beam weapons as strong (some stronger) than other weapon types. Most single target beam weapons went from dusty arsenal accessories to being useful, but then immediately became shelved again after the "damage ramp up per target" came into play. DE said in their original workshop "damage ramping up from 10% to 100% over 0.8 seconds when firing and decays back to 10% over 1 second after stopping." They said nothing about it being "when firing at a target." Everyone thought it was a conventional damage ramp up, like how Gorgon and Soma work.

Of course the "damage ramp up per target" nerf made people upset. They have the right to be upset because it was a careless and thoughtless move on DE's part. And it was even worse for DE to try and pass it off as a BUG FIX when it very clearly stated in their original workshop post that the first implementation damage ramp up mechanic was intended.

 

Exactly, i reread that line many times and i cant intrepet it in any other way than ramp up per magazine.

Your damage resets when you stop firing thats all.

Every multiple beam weapon is now back on the shelves collecting dust while those few what were used are still used and became better but not much.

Whenever i see my amprex unable to kill a chained trash mob i get sad. 

[Guardians6521]

So after the thrown explosives changes I went back to test them because the Talon Buffs seemed like they were going to be great after the buff. The change

• Multishot now spreads additional projectiles horizontal only

to the thrown explosive weapons Castanas, Sancti Castanas, and Talons made them essentially useless. It was a nice idea, but does not work in practice. With full multishot mods, you lose 66% of your damage because the middle one lands on target and the spread now is so extreme that the projectiles to the left and right land on another planet. A a lot of the tile sets have corridors, small hallways, and the spread now is so excessive that if you try to use these weapons in a hallway the left and right projectiles stick to the wall really close to you (because of the extreme spread angle) and have an astronomically high chance of getting you killed.

The 3 Bright dots are where I exploded the talons, the bright dot under the reticle and above the console is a talon explosion animation in its first few frames. If you observe my ammo count, you'll notice its 1 and not 3. Because the capacity is 4. I just didn't reload before I took the screenshot. Would've if i took the screenshot again.

As you can see the spread is so excessive, that if you're trying to hit an enemy, or the group rather at any feasible safe range/effective range you'll lose out on 66% of your damage because the explosion radius isn't big enough to compensate for the massive spread to overlap damage fields. This is exactly why no one used the Cernos prime till the alt fire was given the ability to change spread patterns. Personally I thought the spread changes before were fine, tight grouping and concentrated damage on target worked great. 

If I were to change these, or suggest a change I'd suggest that the projectiles have a set spread distance with multishot, say 2 meters between each projectile (no more angle they just fly 2 meters apart) or revert the changes. I'd lean to the revert.  I was really excited to dust off my talons after all the changes to them, but unfortunately the 1 change I listed above makes them less useful than before the change, although the change was in good spirit.  I hope someone with power will see this and give it some consideration.

TL;DR: The spread changes to thrown explosive secondaries needs a look

-Guardians6521

[GA-Bulletproof]

Enemies affected by Vortex take no damage

 

Edited February 25, 2018 by GA-Bulletproof

[Ozent]

2 hours ago, GA-Bulletproof said:

Beam weapons and Vauban is very buged

 

Currently any ragdoll effects make beams do no damage, think devs knoe about it now, theres been a few feedback posts about it

[TwilitAngel]

7 hours ago, Ozent said:

Currently any ragdoll effects make beams do no damage, think devs knoe about it now, theres been a few feedback posts about it

Apparently they don't apply damage correctly to some objects like blunts either.

[Fallen_Echo]

Okay soo far heres my list of problems:

1. The ramp up damage per target is just horrible and made several weapons again unuseable.
2. That ragdoll bug is painful.
3. The embolist changes to the beams cone spread makes it change in a way that if you cant aim atleast 40cm close to the target 3m away from you you will deal no damage. If this is intented then change the animation so we can actually see how that cone works.

[Gene_Freak]

On 2/18/2018 at 2:47 AM, TheSunless said:

Re: The AkJagara.  

I've been playing with them for several hours now, and I have a few issues related to the rework.

1: The hyper-satisfying POP firing sound has been changed to a less impactful pPop, which I feel reduces its audiovisual impact.  Perhaps the burst is not simultaneous, and is actually separated by a single frame?

Wanted to go back and agree with this. The two-shot burst sound is less satisfying than it used to be. It lacks the authority it once had, for lack of a better word.

And speaking of sounds, I've noticed the Paris Prime has sounded a lot meatier to me since the rework. Not meaty in the heavy, powerful sense, but in the "hitting a wet side of beef ribs with a crowbar" sense. That could entirely just be me, though 

[MunsuLight]

It kinda explain why I do feel that most Beam Weapons does feel a little bit more Clunky since the latest hotfix ..  

And from the Dev Workshop post DE  "Damage ramping up from 10% to 100% over 0.8 seconds when firing and decays back to 10% over 1 second after stopping." I'm alright with ramp up damage.. I'm alright with the "per target" thing if not the smallest movement just reset it to 10% .. Because as seen in his test.. At the speed, he is doing his reticle movement, it's really not the Decay back to 10% over 1 seconds.. It decays to 10% as he move from the target...  In a horde shooter, if you can't move your reticle it's kinda bad ..

[Akimbo]

Just realised there were zero buffs to the Stug. Any chance of throwing a bone to one of the most interesting guns in the game?

[blueThunder24]

Actually any ramp up mechanics, even buffed, kills Convectrix as it seems to be designed as AoE weapon to sweep through enemies spreading slash procs. Keeping both beams together is an option for tougher targets.

[Goenndyr]

While Nidus' Larva is active beam weapons such as amprex deal 0 dmg to the targets within that tentacle mass. I guess thats not intended.

Edited February 26, 2018 by God_of_Salt

[(PSN)El_Rey94]

i  have a quick question regarding the new update. If i currently own a weapon i.e Braton Vandal and have built and maxed it out but am currently not master rank 4, does the change of MR make the weapon unusable to me or will i still be able to use it? 

[DarcnyssWolfe]

1 hour ago, (PS4)El_Rey94 said:

i  have a quick question regarding the new update. If i currently own a weapon i.e Braton Vandal and have built and maxed it out but am currently not master rank 4, does the change of MR make the weapon unusable to me or will i still be able to use it? 

No, mr locks are only on the purchase/building of a weapon. If you own it, you can use it.

[(PSN)El_Rey94]

37 minutes ago, DarcnyssWolfe said:

No, mr locks are only on the purchase/building of a weapon. If you own it, you can use it.

Thank you 

[Fallen_Echo]

4 hours ago, DarcnyssWolfe said:

No, mr locks are only on the purchase/building of a weapon. If you own it, you can use it.

 

4 hours ago, (PS4)El_Rey94 said:

Thank you 

Thats not true at all. I gifted one of my low mr friend a weapon bundle from the market and they cant use it. Its in their inventory but they cant equip it because they are low mr.

[Recel]

46 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

 

Thats not true at all. I gifted one of my low mr friend a weapon bundle from the market and they cant use it. Its in their inventory but they cant equip it because they are low mr.

Just to clarify, did he get the gift before or after the changes?

[Fallen_Echo]

45 minutes ago, Recel said:

Just to clarify, did he get the gift before or after the changes?

Good question, im not really sure. I think it was after the changes.

[Recel]

24 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Good question, im not really sure. I think it was after the changes.

Than that would explain why he can't use it. I mean, it would be sort of silly if you could circumvent the MR requirement with gifts and such.

[(PSN)El_Rey94]

3 hours ago, Recel said:

Than that would explain why he can't use it. I mean, it would be sort of silly if you could circumvent the MR requirement with gifts and such.

Even though i dislike the changes in some weapon's MR im with you on that. If that would be a glitch to bypass the update then thats something then DE would have to patch that up quick.