Chroma Needs Higher Base Health/Armor After The Vex Armor Changes

[MJ12]

The changes to how Vex Armor calculates mean that Chroma is now significantly less durable than before. Given that the intent of the changes were to reduce Chroma's ability to one-shot things like Eidolon weakpoints, it seems that the reduction in durability was somewhat inadvertent.

Improving Chroma's health/shields/armor would make up for this reduction without leading to increases in his damage, and furthermore would provide him with somewhat more tankiness when Vex Armor is off, which would allow for some potentially more interesting builds (especially if Effigy gets an energy cost reduction or is otherwise buffed).

[chofranc]

It would be better if they keep the old Scorn effect for chroma and the new Scorn effect for allies.

[MJ12]

1 minute ago, chofranc said:

It would be better if they keep the old Scorn effect for chroma and the new Scorn effect for allies.

Increasing health/armor would be much simpler than recoding Vex Armor. The latter might require significant changes that introduce new bugs into the ability, increasing health and armor just changes variables.

[DeadlyCreation]

still keeps the dmg problem. the dmg and his tankyness was chromas only redeeming feature. he has no cc what so ever. so even if he is abit stronger than rhino it doesnt matter . because being abit stronger doesnt with help that he has nothing else.

IF you are only good at one thing you better be f*cking good at it - not mediocre like everbody else with other redeeming factors!

[Aleksi134]

Chroma's first ability should be scrapped entirely and i would say the same for his 4th and add actual abilities on those two that dont suck. I just dont see at least spectral scream ever being useful.

[NinjaZeku]

1 minute ago, DeadlyCreation said:

he has no cc what so ever

I've really not used Chroma a whole lot, but, doesn't casting Effigy cause it to deliver a radial stun, at least?

Also, FWIW, there's the Guided Effigy Augment that allows quickly-repeated radial stuns, apparently.

[DeadlyCreation]

yeah it does. takes around 5 seconds until the cc is casted. the range is bad and chroma looses some tankyness. so still way worse than rhino in any way.

[(PSN)MrNishi]

I beginning to think it would make more sense for Vex Armor Scorn to be changed to straight Damage Mitigation rather than an Armor buff.

 

Even if 95% Damage Mitigation Cap (or 90% since Team buff applicable??), this would make pesky armor ignore Bleed procs no longer a hassle and would assist in the diminishing returns of Powerstrength towards current Vex Armor Scorn and base damage Fury buffs.

His Shields would benefit from the Damage mitigation buff and thus it would be an overall larger effective health pool for Chroma versus old Vex Armor with diminishing Armor mitigation, which was susceptible to aforementioned Bleed procs.

 

Edit: Would still benefit Decaying Dragon Key users as new DR applies before Chroma's base Armor. Like Shield of Shadows+Health Conversion Nekros or Nidus where they have 90% Damage Reduction and then their armor values (1400+ Armor (82% Armor Mitigation)for Nekros Prime & 450 Armor(60% Armor Mitigation) for Nidus)

Edited February 11, 2018 by (PS4)MrNishi
Decaying Dragon Key

[xmegarockx]

and also chroma NEED more duration on 2 and 3.

[PrivateRiem]

5 hours ago, MJ12 said:

The changes to how Vex Armor calculates mean that Chroma is now significantly less durable than before. Given that the intent of the changes were to reduce Chroma's ability to one-shot things like Eidolon weakpoints, it seems that the reduction in durability was somewhat inadvertent.

Improving Chroma's health/shields/armor would make up for this reduction without leading to increases in his damage, and furthermore would provide him with somewhat more tankiness when Vex Armor is off, which would allow for some potentially more interesting builds (especially if Effigy gets an energy cost reduction or is otherwise buffed).

Not before Volt gets a survivability buff.

[Yaohru]

Chroma is in a bad place right now.

I can appreciate his damage multiplier was considered 'OP' (in a sodding PvE game but that's a different discussion) but he's gone from a tanky frame that needed you to put in effort to keep powerful to a crappy Rhino rip-off that needs constant attention to just survive. I can't support my teammates as Chroma anymore, I can't revive them when they need it or help them out of jams when they're overwhelmed.

I'm disappointed with what you've done to my favourite frame, and as this happens more and more, I'm more and more put off by Warframe. A continually increasing grind (hooray for Zaws and Amps needing to be levelled twice for any MR. Hooray for components that require fishing/mining. Hooray for having to funnel even more resources into components [mined gems] before you can even use them) plus the fact anything at any moment could be rendered useless by DE is making me feel so apathetic to this game as time goes on.

This update brought a lot of smaller, great changes to Warframe, but holy sh*t are the bad decisions bad.

I've been playing this game for a long time and I've gladly supported it, but as it has grown in popularity it feels as though the focus has changed from making a genuinely fun 4 player PvE game to making it a flashy source of income for DE that draws on things being as long and addictive as possible, to try and keep players only playing Warframe as they won't have time for anything else. A true AAA title where the priority is player retention and revenue, and fun is a secondary concern. I'm not completely clear on when this started but I really wish it would stop.

I'm disappointed in all of you at DE who have been letting the game go this way, and I truly hope you'll take on the feedback from those of us who hold Warframe in a very special place in our hearts and only want it to be as great a game as possible.

Edited February 16, 2018 by DoctorBagPhD
Typo

[TKDancer]

1 hour ago, DoctorBagPhD said:

-snip-

chroma's survivability and dmg output got nerfed so bad, his buff, despite listing an increase in the hundreds is weaker than rhino's roar cause roar actually multiplies dmg after mods

 

instead of fixing the bug of vex armor double/triple dipping its multiplier in elemental mods/weapons they changed him to be so weak its sad

 

cant survive as well, cant kill as well, rest in piss dragon frame(until they fix him, if they do)

[(PSN)Crixus044]

The simple solution is to just do this. Swap Scorn and Ice Elemental Ward's stats and make Elemental Ward be a base 4.5x Armor multiplier. Elemental Ward could have Scorn's 4.5x buff as a total armor modifier, and Vex Armor can continue to act as it does now, but use Ice Elemental Ward's stats instead of Scorn's so it is a +150% base armor multiplier. In terms of EHp, nothing would have changed, and in terms of gameplay, nothing changes either. It's a win-win.

[MJ12]

On 2/10/2018 at 8:16 PM, (PS4)Crixus044 said:

The simple solution is to just do this. Swap Scorn and Ice Elemental Ward's stats and make Elemental Ward be a base 4.5x Armor multiplier. Elemental Ward could have Scorn's 4.5x buff as a total armor modifier, and Vex Armor can continue to act as it does now, but use Ice Elemental Ward's stats instead of Scorn's so it is a +150% base armor multiplier. In terms of EHp, nothing would have changed, and in terms of gameplay, nothing changes either. It's a win-win.

This still sounds far more complicated than "Chroma has 200 base health/525 base armor" or something else which would improve his survivability. IIRC Chroma's eHP fell by something like 70%, so increasing armor by 50% (+50% eHP) and health by 100% (+100% eHP, multiplicative) would put him in roughly the same spot as he was before (~3x current eHP, so roughly 90% of pre-nerf durability).

Frankly, DE using higher base stats to make up for slightly weaker powers is something DE should consider as an option. If a Warframe is slightly undertuned, it might sometimes be better to just boost their stats than to keep playing with their powers.

Edited February 14, 2018 by MJ12

[fatpig84]

I would start by giving him 600 armor and just 150 flat hp (450 hp at level 30 like Ash). DE has issues with mathematical calculations (like the pre damage 2.0 spore that did triple digits millions of damage) and will only break things. 

Just keep it simple will do.

And maybe an increase to his buff range as well from 18m to 25m.

[Andele3025]

On 2/11/2018 at 3:20 AM, (PS4)MrNishi said:

Edit: Would still benefit Decaying Dragon Key users as new DR applies before Chroma's base Armor. Like Shield of Shadows+Health Conversion Nekros or Nidus where they have 90% Damage Reduction and then their armor values (1400+ Armor (82% Armor Mitigation)for Nekros Prime & 450 Armor(60% Armor Mitigation) for Nidus)

Here is the thing tho, Nekros and Nidus both have ramp time (more notable for nekros on high level maps, more notable on/obvious on low enemy density open maps for nidus) and upkeep/maintenance of their DR values, with Nekros being less stuck to a place than Nidus since the AI is merely mostly braindead instead of getting turned off.

With new refresh buff Vex that doesnt apply (same rules as Trinity), thus any DR over 75% should have some heavy downside (or be something like 25-30% DR base thus require most strength mods).

Edited February 14, 2018 by Andele3025

[TKDancer]

54 minutes ago, Andele3025 said:

With new refresh buff Vex that doesnt apply (same rules as Trinity), thus any DR over 75% should have some heavy downside

invisibility makes one nearly immortal due to enemies not targeting u and it has no downsides on most of the frames that have it, ivara being the exception due to how she channels it instead, and iron skin just adds thousands of EHP without any downside, and then theres inaros, splinter storm, shattershield....

 

basically there was no balance reason to make vex armor not multiply mods instead of just fixing the elemental double dipping bug

[Andele3025]

1 hour ago, TKDancer said:

invisibility makes one nearly immortal due to enemies not targeting u and it has no downsides on most of the frames that have it, ivara being the exception due to how she channels it instead, and iron skin just adds thousands of EHP without any downside, and then theres inaros, splinter storm, shattershield....

 

basically there was no balance reason to make vex armor not multiply mods instead of just fixing the elemental double dipping bug

Invisibility doesnt actually prevent damage, Iron Skin only upscales with enemy damage if build is dedicated to it (as in 4-5 ironclad charge hits) with you taking damage after cast (Nezhas Halo cant scale/melts a few seconds after invul drops in such cases and is paper on levels where it matters at all), Shattersheild is ranged only same as Zephyrs reflect.

You do ring true with splinter storm which ALSO should require a lot more power strength (as in at least require 180% power strength total if not even 200/so full Transient+Intensify+Power Drift) to hit its DR cap (as just putting in Intensify in build to hit DR cap IS INSANELY DUMB).

[TKDancer]

12 minutes ago, Andele3025 said:

Invisibility doesnt actually prevent damage

not being attacked is preventing damage, and when u are solo enemies wont attack, at all

 

shattershield and turbulence being ranged-only is a non issue as most of the game is fought against enemies using ranged weapons both have the means to quickly dispatch/CC melee combatants

 

nezha is weak, i'll give u that, but it isnt weak cause it has a downside for the sake of balance, its just weak

 

and that rhino dedicated build is the optimal build, and its very easy to get 4-5 enemas hit in 1 charge in this game

 

and then we can add in QT builds on characters with huge ammo pools+primed flow

[(PSN)Crixus044]

5 hours ago, MJ12 said:

This still sounds far more complicated than "Chroma has 200 base health/525 base armor" or something else which would improve his survivability. IIRC Chroma's eHP fell by something like 70%, so increasing armor by 50% (+50% eHP) and health by 100% (+100% eHP, multiplicative) would put him in roughly the same spot as he was before (~3x current eHP, so roughly 90% of pre-nerf durability).

Frankly, DE using higher base stats to make up for slightly weaker powers is something DE should consider as an option. If a Warframe is slightly undertuned, it might sometimes be better to just boost their stats than to keep playing with their powers.

It's not complicated at all. It's basically exactly what we had before, just Vex Armor has the Base Damage buff and Ice Elemental Ward has the total buff. You're still pressing 2 and 3, and the results are exactly the same, modding is exactly the same, and Team share is not broken, neither is vex armor. It's a win win. Let me tell you the problem with simply raising his base stats.

Let's say his base armor is raised to Valkyr Prime's Level of 700 base, the highest of all the warframes and double his current. This is higher than any suggestion I've seen. At 299% Power Strength with Steel Fiber, ice elemental ward and Vex Armor, you'll have 14028 armor. This is still far less than he had before. With Vitality and Quick Thinking, his EHp would be 108,415. Let's break down the problem with this. Armor is not the best of damage reductions because of its weaknesses to damage types. Warframe have ferrite armor, which means puncture damage ignores 50% of that armor. a primarily puncture damage enemy like the corpus will only be dealing with about 7014 armor. Thus, having 55,342 EHp. Trinity, Nekros, and Nidus can have more than his max, and over double his effective DR. This is because their abilities work off of percentage DR and not armor. So make no mistake in thinking that making chroma the highest EHp on paper means anything, because he was never the tankiest of warframes, yet he was sitting just fine comparatively due to his other uses. We don't need ALMOST his pre-nerf durability. We need it and more. His old mechanics will due, so simply bring it back.

[WutsKraken]

He needs a way better/different 1 and 4. They're both pretty useless

Also, I agree, he really needs something to compensate that big defensive nerf. While I'm a bit sad about the damage nerf, the thing that REALLY annoys me is the tankiness nerf. Being able to facetank level 150+ corrupted enemies while being able to hit em really hard was what drew me to Chroma in the first place

A base armor/hp buff would help immensely. However I don't expect this to realistically happen soon, if anything they'll give that to Chroma Prime which is probably a year off

Edited February 14, 2018 by WutsKraken

[DeadlyCreation]

vor 7 Stunden schrieb WutsKraken:

He needs a way better/different 1 and 4. They're both pretty useless

Also, I agree, he really needs something to compensate that big defensive nerf. While I'm a bit sad about the damage nerf, the thing that REALLY annoys me is the tankiness nerf. Being able to facetank level 150+ corrupted enemies while being able to hit em really hard was what drew me to Chroma in the first place

A base armor/hp buff would help immensely. However I don't expect this to realistically happen soon, if anything they'll give that to Chroma Prime which is probably a year off

yeah i expect chroma prime in a half to one year..

[Valgaarv]

Im the only one that feels chroma is still a monster with 96% damage reduction and X8 damage buff? Just tested him against 20 eximus corpus tech lv 145 and no problems, 1+ hour orokin survival and still see one shots on bombards, yes he should have  a better 1 or 4 but what he has now it´s good and consistent.

Edited February 14, 2018 by Valgaarv

[Aleksi134]

38 minutes ago, Valgaarv said:

Im the only one that feels chroma is still a monster with 96% damage reduction and X8 damage buff? Just tested him against 20 eximus corpus tech lv 145 and no problems, 1+ hour orokin survival and still see one shots on bombards, yes he should have  a better 1 or 4 but what he has now it´s good and consistent.

I feel like you just contradict yourself with your own profile pic.

[DeadlyCreation]

vor 5 Stunden schrieb Valgaarv:

Im the only one that feels chroma is still a monster with 96% damage reduction and X8 damage buff? Just tested him against 20 eximus corpus tech lv 145 and no problems, 1+ hour orokin survival and still see one shots on bombards, yes he should have  a better 1 or 4 but what he has now it´s good and consistent.

cna you please tell me how you get the 96% reduction. i only go up to 90%. and these 6% mean alot in terms of EHP. id love to see your math / build behind it.