why not universal vacuum

[jan_Pike]

On 2/18/2018 at 2:28 PM, Blade_Wolf_16 said:

Are people still complaining about that bs? -_-'

Just grab the loot by yourself, use Mag (Bullet Jump/GP) or use a Sentinel if you're lazy, it's not so damn complicated! 

People are already lazy enough that they complain for the need of actual moving to get their loot. They just want to get all the loot without doing anything and most of the time people think pets are worst than Sentinels just because of the Vacuum. 

the issue is that i dont want to exclusively use sentinels.

who the F*** is going to use the pet moas, kavats, or kubrows if it's just more fun to play with a sentinel because of the vacuum

it's a quality of life thing, obviously. you look at how much loot is on the floor, 2m of univac isn't nearly enough for the size of the game. 

having univac means i can use the companions i want, essentially, without relying on an okay warframe or a sentinel.

[Zeclem]

2 minutes ago, jjpdn said:

Huh, maybe Kavats are different. My Kubrows die instantly no matter how much health they have and I just give up reviving. 

they have better ai(they can roam on the walls and stuff like that too) and a whole precept just to boost their survivability so i'd say yes. only real issue kavats have when it comes to avoid damage is they keep standing in infested puddles and sapping osprey aoes if you dont move much.

[jan_Pike]

i think univac should be a thing at least in the form of a mod. increasing warframe pickup range from 3m to 5, maybe 6m would be good enough for me if theyre going to be stingy on it.

why dump resources into moas when you can put that S#&$ to raids or dark sectors, or improving the next open world or poe.

not like

yknow

a useless pet because the vacuum is way too short,.

since people have already said this sort of thing, i might as well edit my post.

unstead of a univac, maybe make it possible for the pets themselves to have just as big as a vacuum as the warframes since their running around so much. that way, you're still picking up a lot of the stuff, just not all of it I guess.

Edited February 20, 2018 by krekireftw
addition

[jjpdn]

6 minutes ago, Zeclem said:

they have better ai(they can roam on the walls and stuff like that too) and a whole precept just to boost their survivability so i'd say yes. only real issue kavats have when it comes to avoid damage is they keep standing in infested puddles and sapping osprey aoes if you dont move much.

Wow, didn't know that. Wall running cats lol. 

[SilentMobius]

41 minutes ago, krekireftw said:

the issue is that i dont want to exclusively use sentinels.

who the F*** is going to use the pet moas, kavats, or kubrows if it's just more fun to play with a sentinel because of the vacuum

Me, (and it's 3m BTW)

I started using my Kavat because of the potential doubling of void traces, and found I didn't miss vacuum at all. Obviously I had to manoeuvre more but as people have said, Warframe is a very mobile game so more manoeuvring wasn't an issue.

This is why DE provide the option to have the weaker sentinels that can have vacuum, or the possibility of the future sacrifice of a Warframe mod slot, if they absolutly don't want to have to do that.

Edited February 20, 2018 by SilentMobius

[Zeclem]

50 minutes ago, jjpdn said:

Wow, didn't know that. Wall running cats lol. 

well tbf, they only do the wall run thing when theyre attacking. it generally ends up in a bunch of torn down enemies tho so its cool.

[jjpdn]

38 minutes ago, Zeclem said:

well tbf, they only do the wall run thing when theyre attacking. it generally ends up in a bunch of torn down enemies tho so its cool.

Nice... I'll go farm for them then. Just not very excited to do the scanning mini game. Fishing, fun. Mining, fun. Playing the lottery? Not fun. 

[Hypernaut1]

1 hour ago, SilentMobius said:

Me, (and it's 3m BTW)

I started using my Kavat because of the potential doubling of void traces, and found I didn't miss vacuum at all. Obviously I had to manoeuvre more but as people have said, Warframe is a very mobile game so more manoeuvring wasn't an issue.

This is why DE provide the option to have the weaker sentinels that can have vacuum, or the possibility of the future sacrifice of a Warframe mod slot, if they absolutly don't want to have to do that.

This is why I think DE it's against it. It allows players to try something new with consequence. 

I also discovered that my efficiency was more or less the same without vacuum. I honestly don't get why other players are so hung up on it. It's like a willful ignorance. Either that, or maybe my playstyle just evolved to not depend energy and healthy drops. Resources I couldn't care less about. I have tons of everything without even trying.

I use all companions as needed, but having vacuum doesn't make or break anything for me at all.

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

tbh, noone here has even mentioned that when SPECIFICALLY farming, one can also use tactics such as Nekros/Hydroid (Mag was mentioned) to increase your chances of getting MORE loot, as well as mods like Spare Parts to make those dead sentinels really count, and so on.....In other words, DE does plenty to give us the ability to focus our farming and make the most of it...but it's never enough for this community. :/  We need vacuums on everything, scanners on everything, everything needs max armor/health/shield with all damage types....

It's like balance is a foreign concept to most, and yet it is the first thing people cry about when it's out of whack.

I really feel for DE.  Just can't win with this playerbase.  I for one am grateful for the game as-is, and think the current looting system is great. :)

[Blade_Wolf_16]

Il y a 2 heures, krekireftw a dit :

the issue is that i dont want to exclusively use sentinels.

who the F*** is going to use the pet moas, kavats, or kubrows if it's just more fun to play with a sentinel because of the vacuum

it's a quality of life thing, obviously. you look at how much loot is on the floor, 2m of univac isn't nearly enough for the size of the game. 

having univac means i can use the companions i want, essentially, without relying on an okay warframe or a sentinel.

I use Sentinels when I need heal when I'm not using Syndicate weapons/Vazarin/Healing frame, when I want to scan things or if I'm using a weapon with very low ammo economy, such as my Tenora or my Kohm. Otherwise, I don't use any.

 

I use my Kavat.... almost everytime. The Smeeta is awesome for farming (especialy Argon Crystals since it can give one out of nowhere) either ressources and xp, helps trigger the Syndicate procs and gives nice tactical advantages, such as the insane damage buff from the orange crits, the instant reload (very good for Ak pistols, Sobek, Supra, etc.) and damage conversion to overshield. The Adarza is more reliable in terms of buffs since it's not rng and still pretty effective, but more focused on weapons that are already crit based.

Kubrows focus on defense/tactical aspects. Disarm, AoE Fear+Guardian, VIP stunlock, extra loot, invisibility. They do need some changes, but they're not useless, even if a lot of people say so. 

I don't need Vacuum because I learn how to pick up loot by myself. it's not that hard, really, and this way I can use what I really like, aka crittykats.

[Hypernaut1]

23 minutes ago, Blade_Wolf_16 said:

 

I use Sentinels when I need heal when I'm not using Syndicate weapons/Vazarin/Healing frame, when I want to scan things or if I'm using a weapon with very low ammo economy, such as my Tenora or my Kohm. Otherwise, I don't use any.

 

 

Kubrows heal better now with the hunter mod. 

[SilentMobius]

3 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

This is why I think DE it's against it. It allows players to try something new with consequence. 

I also discovered that my efficiency was more or less the same without vacuum. I honestly don't get why other players are so hung up on it. It's like a willful ignorance. Either that, or maybe my playstyle just evolved to not depend energy and healthy drops. Resources I couldn't care less about. I have tons of everything without even trying.

I use all companions as needed, but having vacuum doesn't make or break anything for me at all.

I use the various loot radar mods and I don't miss any loot,regardless of how much I have stocked, but it really isn't an issue to jet over for a moment over those dots on the mini-map.

 

[(PSN)HurricaneHugo76]

I like the introduction points this guy made. And I feel the issue of communication is key to the problem here:
 

 

[-Reinhardsson-]

Vaccum actually is the only reason, why i use Sentinels. They have no other use to me.

And we need Vaccum in the Void because there often are caches behind walls, that (theoratically) can be opened, but often fail or are not meant to do so.

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

17 hours ago, (PS4)HurricaneHugo76 said:

I like the introduction points this guy made. And I feel the issue of communication is key to the problem here:
 

 

I REALLY like this video/post, and it has amazing points that I believe this conversation could benefit from.  However, I do wish to point out that for the argument FOR "Easy Modes" and alternative options that this guy advocates, these are SINGLE-PLAYER games, and therefore someone playing it on an "easier" setting doesn't affect other players, whereas here on Warframe, or any other MMO, one player having an easy-mode for something like Vacuum WOULD affect their gains/looting vs other players, and it'd make no sense.

I like his point, though, about "Developers have the right to portray their game as they envision it."   To me, this has always been obvious, but....reading -some- responses on here, I'm starting to think it may not be so clear, for whatever reason.

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

Also, as promised, the poll:  https://strawpoll.com/hxw2h498

I meant to post it 24 hrs after I mentioned it, but there was a sudden death in the family, and the last 48 hrs has been funerals and sad faces, so I apologize for the lateness.

In any case, go ahead and vote.

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

Also, real classy kid....

https://imgur.com/a/nYM7q

Way to "stay civil and honest" as you claim to be doing.  Didn't send -you- a message, so....Meh, I'll let that speak for itself.

[(PSN)HurricaneHugo76]

4 hours ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

I REALLY like this video/post, and it has amazing points that I believe this conversation could benefit from.  However, I do wish to point out that for the argument FOR "Easy Modes" and alternative options that this guy advocates, these are SINGLE-PLAYER games, and therefore someone playing it on an "easier" setting doesn't affect other players, whereas here on Warframe, or any other MMO, one player having an easy-mode for something like Vacuum WOULD affect their gains/looting vs other players, and it'd make no sense.

I like his point, though, about "Developers have the right to portray their game as they envision it."   To me, this has always been obvious, but....reading -some- responses on here, I'm starting to think it may not be so clear, for whatever reason.

I think the most important part of the video is the idea people have about how games should be played and the idea of devs making their intent clear.

I see the issue of universal vacuum as equally part of both issues. Alot of players here have just convinced themselves that universal vacuum is the way they want to play the game and that they should be allowed to play the game however they see fit, even if it breaks the game. This perceptions bleeds into alot of other parts of the game and is at the heart of alot of dissatisfaction among older players. They have a vision of how the game is played and what the game is about and they feel entitled to claim that their vision is the only one that counts.

And that perception I feel was caused because the devs both didn't communicate clearly about their design intent in the game and their rather lackadaisical maintenance and development of core aspects of the game. The devs have allowed players to do things in this game which was not part of their vision for how the game was intended to be played and seem unwilling to communicate clearly this vision for fear of turning away players and creating bad will. They have instead resort to a more passive aggressive approach where they incrementally modify and adjust the game to better fit the vision they have, but never really telling anyone what went behind those decisions for the most part. Vacuum i think is a perfect example of this, they could easily release a statement explaining why vacuum works the way it does, what their intent for vacuum is, and why they do not believe a universal inherent vacuum would fit into their vision of the game.

[Tyrian3k]

5 hours ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

I REALLY like this video/post, and it has amazing points that I believe this conversation could benefit from.  However, I do wish to point out that for the argument FOR "Easy Modes" and alternative options that this guy advocates, these are SINGLE-PLAYER games, and therefore someone playing it on an "easier" setting doesn't affect other players, whereas here on Warframe, or any other MMO, one player having an easy-mode for something like Vacuum WOULD affect their gains/looting vs other players, and it'd make no sense.

I like his point, though, about "Developers have the right to portray their game as they envision it."   To me, this has always been obvious, but....reading -some- responses on here, I'm starting to think it may not be so clear, for whatever reason.

 

Yes, all players that already use vacuum would still use vacuum and all who don't like it still don't use it. The change in gains/looting is pretty much 0.

What changes is that players can use kubrows and kavats while also having the benefits of vacuum and can finally collect enough ammo to feed an ammo-hungrier gun while doing so. And you could even use all those fancy parkour moves they added to the game to collect said loot, but I guess using a bullet-hose and doing parkour while taking your cat or dog for walkies isn't part of DE's vision for the game.

And if univac makes the poor sentinels obsolete, then vacuum is currently only covering up the fact that their abilities are awful to begin with and need a buff.

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

10 hours ago, (PS4)HurricaneHugo76 said:

I think the most important part of the video is the idea people have about how games should be played and the idea of devs making their intent clear.

I see the issue of universal vacuum as equally part of both issues. Alot of players here have just convinced themselves that universal vacuum is the way they want to play the game and that they should be allowed to play the game however they see fit, even if it breaks the game. This perceptions bleeds into alot of other parts of the game and is at the heart of alot of dissatisfaction among older players. They have a vision of how the game is played and what the game is about and they feel entitled to claim that their vision is the only one that counts.

And that perception I feel was caused because the devs both didn't communicate clearly about their design intent in the game and their rather lackadaisical maintenance and development of core aspects of the game. The devs have allowed players to do things in this game which was not part of their vision for how the game was intended to be played and seem unwilling to communicate clearly this vision for fear of turning away players and creating bad will. They have instead resort to a more passive aggressive approach where they incrementally modify and adjust the game to better fit the vision they have, but never really telling anyone what went behind those decisions for the most part. Vacuum i think is a perfect example of this, they could easily release a statement explaining why vacuum works the way it does, what their intent for vacuum is, and why they do not believe a universal inherent vacuum would fit into their vision of the game.

I whole-heartedly agree with you here.  I don't fully fault DE for their lack of communication, or rather...hesitation to do so directly.  When the majority of players are so fanatic that they act like middle school emo kids when things are threatened to be "taken away" and resort to "Well, I'll leave!  I'll protest the game!  I'll jump off a bridge if this happens!!!"  and that takes up thread after thread here on the forum, saying NOTHING of the endless Youtube/Twitch rants...

It can kinda cause DE to step back and just be like "Woah, okay...uh....slow down there, it's fine.  Jkjk, bruh!" 

Not saying that is the CORRECT behavior, but having had many people in my life act that way, as well as having been a game dev myself for several years, I have seen that first hand and understand how it can complicate things.

That being said, while DE could certainly do a better job in some respects, I still believe we need to meet them in the middle and give them a little slack to do their own thing, ya know?  They brought us an amazing game for almost 5 years now...been nominated for awards, set records, and they're only improving....They clearly know what they're doing, so why do we act like they don't?

[(PSN)BLOOD-LINE-01]

16 hours ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

Also, real classy kid....

https://imgur.com/a/nYM7q

Way to "stay civil and honest" as you claim to be doing.  Didn't send -you- a message, so....Meh, I'll let that speak for itself.

I like how you act like you didn’t start off pointing out the poll had more in favour of sentinel exclusive vacuum in the beginning, which you did. So pretending like you’re completely mature is a lost cause.

I was being civil at the start and honest the whole way, while you were being hostile and hiding your poll for some unknown reason.

Edited February 23, 2018 by (PS4)BLOOD-LINE-01

[Zeclem]

16 hours ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

Also, real classy kid....

https://imgur.com/a/nYM7q

Way to "stay civil and honest" as you claim to be doing.  Didn't send -you- a message, so....Meh, I'll let that speak for itself.

ngl that is quite hilarious. and its just another reason why that guy isnt that useful to discuss things with as well. 

[(PSN)BLOOD-LINE-01]

1 minute ago, Zeclem said:

ngl that is quite hilarious. and its just another reason why that guy isnt that useful to discuss things with as well. 

Maybe you’d like to take a look back to when he did the exact same thing he’s calling me out for:

On 20/02/2018 at 10:11 AM, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

Oh, I can see.  That 50% of players, so far, is clearly a minority voting for it to stay "as-is".   :p

 

[-Temp0-]

В 19.02.2018 в 02:28, Blade_Wolf_16 сказал:

Are people still complaining about that bs? -_-'

Just grab the loot by yourself

One simple question.

Why the *** would you.

It's like asking why use washing machines why can't you just wash your junk old fashioned way, why use a toilet paper over a leaf or some newspaper and why use cars when you can just walk. If everyone thought like you there woudl be no progress at all, ever. I don't see a single reason why I should play a game like it's still early 1990s and settle for this. Picking all the numerous trash from the floor is uninteresting, time consuming annoying and boring. Especially when you have 4 people running around up to 1000 meters in all directions and just wandering around killing mobs. That's why no sane person wants to do so.

That's all not to mention the actual *amount* of loot in Warframe and the fact that it gets stuck in some uranus quite often, some like Eidolon cores and now arcanes can get suspended in the air, reactant used to gwt stuck on the ceiling and fall under the floor, same with boosters in raids. It is virtually, literally impossible to collect without vacuum. And those that you can - you have to pick it one by one, one by one, one by one like some caveman. All that solely because someone's in DE is stubborn like a 4 years old. And no other reason.

Цитата

I also discovered that my efficiency was more or less the same without vacuum. 

If you have nothing better to do than collect every single ****. The amount of resource you need for everything in warfarme is too high to even consider avoiding resource drops unless it's some nano spores that everyone have millions of or salvage. People who can afford to do so are those that been playing for more than a year and farmed and stockpiled most of resources. But even if you do that there's still energy orbs and health orbs and things like eidolon cores and arcanes and boosters and life support. It doesn't end on on resources alone. So don't even begin to talk about "efficiency".

Edited February 23, 2018 by -Temp0-

[Ethorin]

idea to satisfy both parties

 

Pets get a new slot in Loadout instead of sharing sentinel slot.