Boring Mechanics

[dead.rabit]

There are some things you have to do in-game that're just boring.. Mechanics where you're trying to stretch out gameplay by making it difficult to farm certain resources so the player-base is using the most effective way possible to work around that and those workarounds are not as intended. The player-base are farming this way, even though it's a chore because the "official" farming technique aren't nearly lucrative enough to merit our time. I'm concerned that this is putting new player off warfarm.

• Cetus wisps
  The most effective way to farm these is to enter plains solo and run around the big lake and reset. Rinse and repeat for an hour and you can build your amp
• Cephelon Simaris standing
  Solo stealth scanning every enemy in a mission is more effective then hunting targets.
• Focus
  Like Simaris, stealth bonuses to affinity are too large.
• Argon Crystals & Void Vault
  Using my ninja-death-robot to open every container and check every room is not compelling gameplay.
• Ember & (to a lesser degree) Banshee
  I immediately abandon any mission where Ember also joins that mission... There's nothing for me to do in that mission except walk to the exit. Make world of fire do % health damage so it's primarily a cc tool instead of a murdering tool.

What I would suggest.. Is introducing new, fun ways to farm these resources effectively rather then making these techniques ineffective. The fact that people are trying to work around the systems using the tools you're presenting them with I think is a sign of player engagement and nerfing these would upset people. However I firmly believe introducing new or tweaking existing fun farming methods sufficiently to make these workarounds obsolete is the way to go.

All the best,

D.R

 

[RayxAyanami]

On 3/2/2018 at 4:53 PM, dead.rabit said:

There are some things you have to do in-game that're just boring.. Mechanics where you're trying to stretch out gameplay by making it difficult to farm certain resources so the player-base is using the most effective way possible to work around that and those workarounds are not as intended. The player-base are farming this way, even though it's a chore because the "official" farming technique aren't nearly lucrative enough to merit our time. I'm concerned that this is putting new player off warfarm.

• Cetus wisps
  The most effective way to farm these is to enter plains solo and run around the big lake and reset. Rinse and repeat for an hour and you can build your amp
• Cephelon Simaris standing
  Solo stealth scanning every enemy in a mission is more effective then hunting targets.
• Focus
  Like Simaris, stealth bonuses to affinity are too large.
• Argon Crystals & Void Vault
  Using my ninja-death-robot to open every container and check every room is not compelling gameplay.
• Ember & (to a lesser degree) Banshee
  I immediately abandon any mission where Ember also joins that mission... There's nothing for me to do in that mission except walk to the exit. Make world of fire do % health damage so it's primarily a cc tool instead of a murdering tool.

What I would suggest.. Is introducing new, fun ways to farm these resources effectively rather then making these techniques ineffective. The fact that people are trying to work around the systems using the tools you're presenting them with I think is a sign of player engagement and nerfing these would upset people. However I firmly believe introducing new or tweaking existing fun farming methods sufficiently to make these workarounds obsolete is the way to go.

All the best,

D.R

 

Wisps can be obtained quite easily through bounties
Argon Crystals are easy to farm, I still can't comprehend how people complain about them.

Standing and Focus do need to be looked at again. 

Ember is fine, She's been through so much nerfing, and people still complain, Leave the poor fire chicken alone and get good for once. People can do the same with a lot of other frames (Even better). Where's the "Nerf Volt becaus his discharge gets all the kills" or "Nerf Equinox" Thread.

And as a forum tradition,

Spoiler

 

 

Edited March 3, 2018 by RayxAyanami

[hellodownthere]

i always will find that bingo list funny because yesterday (i think) there was a guy asking for excalibur prime to return

[theninthchevron]

Bring back excalibur prime.

[xS0nico]

7 minutes ago, doctor_rush said:

Bring back excalibur prime.

No.

[GinKenshin]

16 minutes ago, doctor_rush said:

Bring back excalibur prime.

Like your thread wasn’t bad enough lol 

[throwaway987654321]

7 minutes ago, GinKenshin said:

Like your thread wasn’t bad enough lol 

Not his thread, they just have the same glyph haha

[Guest]

The only valid complaint I see is the affinity/focus system.  Affinity should encourage a far greater variety of play styles and not reward people for leeching.  Fixing affinity will help fix focus, though additional changes should be made to focus.  Other than that, the rest of the stuff is fine, including banshee and ember.

[dead.rabit]

it's really OK to have a 50/50 chance at 2 cetus wisps from a bounty that takes 15-20 minutes to complete, considering 30-60 are needed for each Amp? Running around the lake at night you get 3-5 within 3 minutes and it still takes up to an hour to farm up the high level amps. Scanning 156 enemies whilst invisible by yourself, whilst moving at 1/2 speed is fun? opening every container in a random void mission? Following a warframe that kills everything within 20m immediately? (even after all the nerfs I've never seen Ember with < 75% of damage and kills)

You laugh that these are common complaints.. But that's because people complaining about these things are right. Warframe is an action game, it's core engagement with it's audience is fast paced action where you get to slaughter space bankers, a cloned slave race and giant bacteria by the thousand and each item on this list is juxtaposed to that endeavor.

[True_Naeblis]

None of what you mentioned is what's ever turned me off of playing, especially since none of them are must haves. All of them are resources that are meant to be gained over time. Choosing to take on the attitude that you need maxed focus, every item built, and all resources delivered in a single run is what's wearing you out.

There are issues, like how tedious Plains' standing becomes to get initially, and how useless it is once you've bought everything, or how the scanner missions are still broken and counter-intuitive years in, or how for any and everything worth doing we have to look outside of the game to other players for info on how to get it done after they've banged their heads on the wall getting it puzzled out through the glitches.

Argon is not needed in any great amount that a run here and there breaking crates or doing it the slower way and hoping for drops on a defense is going to kill you. The slow farm on focus and standing isn't going to kill you. Private squads solve your issue with Ember and Banshee, because no game will ever be exactly what you want, and frames shouldn't be nerfed to suit your needs alone, esp when they're already in a good place for most others.

[(XBOX)Tucker D Dawg]

5 hours ago, dead.rabit said:

s really OK to have a 50/50 chance at 2 cetus wisps from a bounty that takes 15-20 minutes to complete, considering 30-60 are needed for each Amp? Running around the lake at night you get 3-5 within 3 minutes and it still takes up to an hour to farm up the high level amps

its 50/50 several times, and you should be looking at the wisp hots spots while you do the bounties to double dip.  and an hour of farming for something you only need to farm once in the game is nothing.

 

5 hours ago, dead.rabit said:

Scanning 156 enemies whilst invisible by yourself, whilst moving at 1/2 speed is fun?

I assume this is for simaris - and there isn't that much to be had from him once you get the basics.  This is more I need all my stuff now.  If you approach this and the wisps and everything else in the game by doing a bit of everything all the time, you will constantly be reaching new milestones.  But instead people get tunnel vision and just  think "I need this one thing now and all I'm going to do is farm one thing at a time to get it".

6 hours ago, dead.rabit said:

even after all the nerfs I've never seen Ember with < 75% of damage and kills

And yet its entirely possible and not even that hard.  earlier today I beat her damage and kills 60 to 30 (the other two players combined for the last 10%) using inaros and a polearm and no abilities. on an exterminate.  Sure it wasnt a lith fissure - but even if it had been, there are plenty of ways to out DPS the chicken.

 

6 hours ago, dead.rabit said:

But that's because people complaining about these things are right. Warframe is an action game, it's core engagement with it's audience is fast paced action where you get to slaughter space bankers, a cloned slave race and giant bacteria by the thousand and each item on this list is juxtaposed to that endeavor.

And yet they can slaughter and kill at a fast pace - what they are complaining about is Warframe being a collecting/farming game - and they can't collect and farm fast enough because they want their new shiny bauble faster.  Simply because you could do every mission on every planet in a days time, doesn't mean you can collect and farm so quickly.  The very core of WF is built around people grinding again and again with things position just barely within reach.  And that they are - within reach. Barely.

[dead.rabit]

Quote

None of what you mentioned is what's ever turned me off of playing, especially since none of them are must haves. All of them are resources that are meant to be gained over time. Choosing to take on the attitude that you need maxed focus, every item built, and all resources delivered in a single run is what's wearing you out.

Quote

what they are complaining about is Warframe being a collecting/farming game - and they can't collect and farm fast enough because they want their new shiny bauble faster.  Simply because you could do every mission on every planet in a days time, doesn't mean you can collect and farm so quickly.  The very core of WF is built around people grinding again and again with things position just barely within reach.  And that they are - within reach. Barely.

I'm a founder, I've already farmed all this stuff up. All I need is endo now. My concern is for new players that see a huge amount of farming in front of them where some of the fastest methods to farm (recommended across youtube) are boring exploits. There are lots of things you need to farm often, like polymer bundle, orikin cells, nitain, credits etc.. But the most effective way to farm these resources is "healthy" for the game. The farm pushes you towards the engaging parts of the game.

I completely understand why the farm is there, you always have 2-3 missions in mind for your next item to build, it's all that held the game together before it had a story-line. You don't play for the grind though, you play for the action, the acrobatics and the fast pace low risk adventure that the farm brings you too.

However, sometimes, your next item build has you afk running around a river for an hour. And who wants to come home from work to that sort of chore? I suppose Argon is the least offensive item on the list, Ember legit ruins the game for new players though.

It's only natural to seek the most effective way to achieve our goals. Don't you dare tell people they're playing the game wrong! It's simply poor design that the most effective way to farm a small number (very much the minority minority) of resources is not fun.

Edited March 3, 2018 by dead.rabit

[oSPoJellyz]

20 hours ago, dead.rabit said:

 

• Ember & (to a lesser degree) Banshee
  I immediately abandon any mission where Ember also joins that mission... There's nothing for me to do in that mission except walk to the exit. Make world of fire do % health damage so it's primarily a cc tool instead of a murdering tool.

 

Someone hasn't been experiencing much of an endgame gameplay, I presume. 

EDIT: I take it back, since I read that you're a founder. Although regardless, the only situation that left you with nothing to do is on the lower end of the navigation levels, which prompt my question on why were you there in the first place. Anyway, if you are worried about Ember ruining the game for new players, DE just needs to implement the Mastery Rank-relevant auto-match system, since it's mostly the veteran's Ember who could attempt such a clear. Not to mention that one has to unlock and grind Sargas Ruk and Saturn for the parts. In my opinion, you are over exaggerating the Ember situation, as much as I like DE to actually change her to be more mechanically fun. 

Edited March 3, 2018 by oSPoJellyz

[dead.rabit]

3 hours ago, oSPoJellyz said:

Someone hasn't been experiencing much of an endgame gameplay, I presume. 

EDIT: I take it back, since I read that you're a founder. Although regardless, the only situation that left you with nothing to do is on the lower end of the navigation levels, which prompt my question on why were you there in the first place. Anyway, if you are worried about Ember ruining the game for new players, DE just needs to implement the Mastery Rank-relevant auto-match system, since it's mostly the veteran's Ember who could attempt such a clear. Not to mention that one has to unlock and grind Sargas Ruk and Saturn for the parts. In my opinion, you are over exaggerating the Ember situation, as much as I like DE to actually change her to be more mechanically fun. 

I regularly introduce all my friends and partners to my favorite game, help them navigate the inordinate amount of information you need to get started. Each time I introduce something new, these are the bits that frustrate.

Lvl 60+ I believe full build Ember works as intended and world on fire is primarily a cc tool. In low-mid tier content which people need to run  frequently (alerts, syndicate, invasions, nightmare missions to name a few) she's extremely popular as you can just walk through the level without the need to interact with it, and prevents most of her comrades from interacting with it. 

[HellVOps]

Quick, Someone paste Warframe Bingo I think we got a winner!

[(XBOX)THANOTOS OMEGA]

On 3/2/2018 at 5:34 AM, RayxAyanami said:

Wisps can be obtained quite easily through bounties
Argon Crystals are easy to farm, I still can't comprehend how people complain about them.

Standing and Focus do need to be looked at again. 

Ember is fine, She's been through so much nerfing, and people still complain, Leave the poor fire chicken alone and get good for once. People can do the same with a lot of other frames (Even better). Where's the "Nerf Volt becaus his discharge gets all the kills" or "Nerf Equinox" Thread.

And as a forum tradition,

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

I believe the reason for the Argon Crystal hate is that you can't build up a stock pile over time like other resources, so you have to go collect them usually from the void, where you can run into Nullifiers, which most people hate and will avoid at all cost,

[RayxAyanami]

6 minutes ago, (Xbox One)THANOTOS OMEGA said:

I believe the reason for the Argon Crystal hate is that you can't build up a stock pile over time like other resources, so you have to go collect them usually from the void, where you can run into Nullifiers, which most people hate and will avoid at all cost,

Still not a good enough reason. Not everything has to be spoonfed.

[(XBOX)THANOTOS OMEGA]

2 hours ago, RayxAyanami said:

Still not a good enough reason. Not everything has to be spoonfed.

It's not about being spoon fed it's about having the flow of the game messed with because of a weird choice to have one material decay over time, it's awkward to have to go to such a specific place to farm it when ever it comes up, it's not a game ruining thing it's a mild annoyance, but those tend to add up over time, like the first few times you refine a relic and get a forma once or twice it's a bother, 10+ times and it becomes game defining,

[Teoarrk]

21 hours ago, (Xbox One)Tucker D Dawg said:

And yet its entirely possible and not even that hard.  earlier today I beat her damage and kills 60 to 30 (the other two players combined for the last 10%) using inaros and a polearm and no abilities. on an exterminate.  Sure it wasnt a lith fissure - but even if it had been, there are plenty of ways to out DPS the chicken.

 

And yet they can slaughter and kill at a fast pace - what they are complaining about is Warframe being a collecting/farming game - and they can't collect and farm fast enough because they want their new shiny bauble faster.  Simply because you could do every mission on every planet in a days time, doesn't mean you can collect and farm so quickly.  The very core of WF is built around people grinding again and again with things position just barely within reach.  And that they are - within reach. Barely.

Let me play devil's advocate. If you're getting used to the game and see an Ember flying around mopping up enemies with WoF before you get to shoot any of them, you're gonna be disheartened.  Sure, you're getting a boost but it's not entirely fun to be sat watching someone else play the game for you. The number of threads that still pop up talking about fire chicken suggest to me that people are still unhappy with what she's capable of on the receiving end. I don't think she should be nerfed per se, because on defence she is a fairly useful janitor, but at the same time she's a lot more powerful than other frames at low level.

Edited March 3, 2018 by Teoarrk

[(XBOX)Erudite Prime]

On 3/2/2018 at 3:34 AM, RayxAyanami said:

Where's the "Nerf Volt because his discharge gets all the kills" or "Nerf Equinox" Thread.

 

Delete this before the threads start popping up. Besides, wasn't discharge already super-nerfed with range?

[Teoarrk]

4 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Erudite God said:

Delete this before the threads start popping up. Besides, wasn't discharge already super-nerfed with range?

The difference between Volt and Ember is that Volt has to stop everything he's doing to nuke the entire room. Ember's 4 is a channeled ability and she's free to move and do general warframe stuff while it's active. I guess the reason why Equinox doesn't have the same reputation is because he's available much later and typically people that use him aren't running low level content. By the time that Equinox is out there using maim to kill anything and everything most other players either have more understanding of the game and their place in the squad or the mobs are tough enough that other players will at least see the enemies before they die.

[RayxAyanami]

12 hours ago, (Xbox One)THANOTOS OMEGA said:

It's not about being spoon fed it's about having the flow of the game messed with because of a weird choice to have one material decay over time, it's awkward to have to go to such a specific place to farm it when ever it comes up, it's not a game ruining thing it's a mild annoyance, but those tend to add up over time, like the first few times you refine a relic and get a forma once or twice it's a bother, 10+ times and it becomes game defining,

it takes less than 20 minutes to farm 10+ argon crystals. It doesn't mess with the flow at all. And this is a single resource we're talking about. It's decay is justified by the lore.

Maybe if people bothered to get out of Hydron and actually bothered to do void missions, they wouldn't complain so often.

[kgabor]

People still use WoF Ember? Literally any build on Ember is better than the one centered around WoF now(also Accelerant is a better cc) and i prefer Discharge Volt for fast nuking, the update that removed the damage cap finally made Volt usable and i hope that means people realize there is more into this frame than speed spam.

Banshee just outright deserved a better ability than Quake/RQ that actually synergizes with the frame's kit, Nova got a cc slow ability, Equinox got a cc slow ability so why Banshee don't? It would make a Sonar focused ranged build actually functional and fun at high levels instead of a generic nuke ability that gets redundant at sortie 2 levels with full power strength and is only used for fast syndicate/ Hydron focus farming.

[(XBOX)THANOTOS OMEGA]

1 hour ago, RayxAyanami said:

it takes less than 20 minutes to farm 10+ argon crystals. It doesn't mess with the flow at all. And this is a single resource we're talking about. It's decay is justified by the lore.

Maybe if people bothered to get out of Hydron and actually bothered to do void missions, they wouldn't complain so often.

Can and does are different things, it can take 20 minutes to get 10+ argon crystals, or it can take an hour to get 1, all the while fighting one of the most annoying factions, i walked away with lots of argon crystals lately, doesn't erase the multiple runs looking for them where i couldn't find even one,

[Spectre-8]

On 3/2/2018 at 1:57 PM, doctor_rush said:

Bring back excalibur prime.

How about , no ?