Energy, Energy, Energy...

[Recel]

57 minutes ago, Darkuhn said:

I didn't, but I don't see any problem with how energy is working right now.

if the OP refrains from using all the tools we were given to manage energy consumption than that is his choice. With such Builds/Playstyles you will run out of energy rather quickly but with the right weapons/Arcana you can play certain frames (e.g. Inaros/Valkyr) without ever spending Energy.

If OP wants to field a Max Power Strength Min Power Efficiency Saryn to wreck whole Tilesets then he should use the means DE gave to us to sustain such a build. Or he should find a Team willing to spend Energy Pizzas for him.

Back when I started Playing we only had Trinity and the Aura Mod to generate Energy. With the many ways we can generate Energy now, I think we are in a good spot.

 

Honestly, energy isn't "working" at all. You either get a ridiculous amount through RNG, Trinity, Harrow, pizzas or any other means, or non at all. And with pizzas and how they work, there is no need to manage energy at all if you don't mind having to build them and throw them down by the dozens everywhere like landmines. Which means there is no energy management truly required by the game.

And while having an infinite pool of energy at all times in your pocket is a "good spot". It kind of also makes the whole energy system pointless to have.

[_junguler]

for me the whole reason to play this game is the abilities these warframes have, i don't like to shoot weapons and i rarely use melee weapons since i got nidus. i want to use my abilities and alot! i like to spam them because that's fun gameplay to me, running out of energy is the worst feeling i have playing this game and not even using rage and p flow with zenurik is enough to keep the energy going.

so i don't know why the devs are trying so hard to keep us away from using the only thing that makes their games unique and stand out, why do we even need balance in a pve games is the question i have, let us be op and spam our abilities because that's why i play and love this game to begin with.

[Birdframe_Prime]

19 minutes ago, _junguler said:

why do we even need balance in a pve games is the question i have

Because it's a co-op PvE game, where it's not just you playing. The 'balance' is so that things work better with other players, rather than on your own, so that you're encouraged to be in a team and help each other.

[Darkuhn]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb Recel:

And with pizzas and how they work, there is no need to manage energy at all if you don't mind having to build them and throw them down by the dozens everywhere like landmines. Which means there is no energy management truly required by the game.

so just because you could have "enough" energy, the system is broken?

You choose to use Pizzas, they give Energy, Health, Shields and Ammo, so following your logic there is no need for limits on Health/Shields/Ammo/Energy in this game as we have unlimited access to them.

But you don't have to use them and its the same with extreme Energy hungry Builds, You decide to use them and then you have to live with the consequences of that decision.

Your solution to the "broken" System would be what exactly? Cooldowns like Destiny has them? A passive Regeneration of say 5Energy/s and all other means gone?

Regarding the Cooldowns: The Idea doesn't fit Warframe as the Devs stated Years ago. The really fun part of Warframe is that you don't have any Cooldowns preventing the Spamming of Abilitys. 

Most of my Builds can sustain their Abilitys regardless of Dropps or Enemys with Zenutik or Energy Siphon alone. So I don't see a need for universal Energy Regeneration. Also Pizzas were meant to give emergency access to what they provide. If you decide to play a Build which requires you to spam pizzas to work, then its your problem and you have to keep using/building them or change your build.

Also if you rather have Cooldowns than Energy I would advise you to try Destiny.

Edited March 20, 2018 by Darkuhn

[_junguler]

42 minutes ago, Thaylien said:

Because it's a co-op PvE game, where it's not just you playing. The 'balance' is so that things work better with other players, rather than on your own, so that you're encouraged to be in a team and help each other.

well with my experience playing this game i always see people wanting to do the mission as quickly as possible and having op builds that just kills enemies as they come is actually better for them. because they can do more missions and farm more stuff with the freed up time.

also i do help the team-mates with being op and tanky because i can help that low mr player who gets killed easily because they don't have good gear and mods yet, or can't do a mission on his own and open up star chart because the early goings in this game is not new player friendly.

also the loot is shared between all players and not killing an enemy is not a problem where you might loose something, now i accept some of the cheese builds are annoying to play with but those get nerfed regardless of me spamming my powers or not.

[Kronxito]

On 17/3/2018 at 6:19 PM, RayxAyanami said:

The reason why Operators "recharge" is because they use pure void energy and are connected to it, Warframes can't enter the void, they are basically Infested. But then again we have limbo so screw this..... Fix your lore DE.. Geez.

Limbo can go to another dimension. And that dimension is NOT the void.

[sixmille]

What you're asking for already exist in this game, it's called Energy siphon.

/thread.

 

[TKDancer]

6 hours ago, Darkuhn said:

I didn't, but I don't see any problem with how energy is working right now.

the problem is that only 1 focus school provides regen, not all frames can make use of rage/adrenaline, energy drops are pure RNG and unless u have max efficiency 1 or 2 energy drops arent a lot(unless u have energize, which is way too rare and expensive for the majority of players), the energy regen aura is god awful, and energy economy pretty much doesnt exist for new players as powers suffer from "too good to use" syndrome due to high base costs and the mentioned RNG drops

[TKDancer]

39 minutes ago, sixmille said:

What you're asking for already exist in this game, it's called Energy siphon.

/thread.

 

0.6 energy per second per person

 

woohoo /s

[TKDancer]

6 hours ago, Thaylien said:

Then let's make it make sense ^^

Rather than RNG based drops, have it more reliable, where either certain numbers of enemies killed generates a certain number of energy orbs, and/or killing specific enemies always rewards an energy orb.

Target priority has always appeared to be a challenge to most of the new players that I've taught, if there was a solid reward for making sure they took out Ancients, Nullifiers, Heavy units, Mutalists, Eximus units and so on first, then gameplay overall would improve, good habits would be drilled in from the start, as it were.

That kind of thing would be easier to implement and balance for DE than a universal passive energy regen. It would fall in line with their previous changes and policies about energy where you have to perform an action in order to get a reaction, earn energy from doing things. Even the current Zenurik is like that; earn all the Focus for it, then every time you want it you have to activate it with the little Operator dance.

While I'm convinced that we're never going to get actual passive energy regen...

There's still options to work with what we have, instead of trying to break DE's back over their existing policies.

i meant that it doesnt make sense cause why are random grineer lads dropping blue orbs that can fuel my frames

 

but your idea is at least a start for an alternative to pure RNG, and for better or worse its way more likely to be implemented than universal energy regen(altho i'd really like universal regen myself)

[Guest]

Eh if I had a say, I'd support raw energy regen on all frames ... and total removal of all other sources of energy except maybe pizzas (yes, even Zenurik which I grind and grind focus for), which would have a cool down between uses. The blue orbs are not just very random, on a channeling frame they tend to pick up every time you use 0.5 energy which is plain wasteful. Someone's idea of frames having generator skills that give energy rather than take it is also not too bad. I don't have energy problems as a Zenurik user, but honestly I simply hate the way energy orbs work as a pickup, and would rather not have them.

While I know some like the current system, my opinion is that it is simply silly.

[Birdframe_Prime]

35 minutes ago, TKDancer said:

i meant that it doesnt make sense cause why are random grineer lads dropping blue orbs that can fuel my frames

For the same reason that they drop Health ^^ Warframes are infested-based tech constructs, even if they get all the energy they need to move and be animate from their Tenno pilots, they still need to catalyse that power into effects, the same as they must make up for physical loss of their mass (from bullet holes and so on) with something.

Health and Energy are drops because, while the frames are our puppets, they aren't just 'things', we've got to feed them and patch them up from time to time ^^

[motorfirebox]

7 hours ago, Darkuhn said:

 

If OP wants to field a Max Power Strength Min Power Efficiency Saryn to wreck whole Tilesets then he should use the means DE gave to us to sustain such a build.

You did miss op's point, then. He didn't say that there shouldn't be a need to manage energy. He said that the means of energy management that we currently have available are bad. 

Edited March 20, 2018 by motorfirebox

[UpHighDownLowTooSlow]

Forget everything about a passive energy regen, just buff the orbs themselves and scale in accordance to the Energy Pool and efficiency, similarly to Nidus's Virulence. Frames could also get a much greater chance at getting orbs if the enemy killed/affected then killed by an ability as opposed to just having a simple "X enemies to get Y energy orb"

Some examples would be: A 300 Energy Frame with 100% efficiency gets 50 energy per orb dropped, and the drop chance is 1/40 (just an example + accounting for that faction's drop tables). Frame kills 20 enemies with damage ability and at least 4-5 enemies drop orbs, but only give 25. (it grants less as to alleviate nuke abilities from instantly getting energy back from a cast).

Another example: A 450 Energy Frame with a 25/50/75/100 kit with 130% efficiency gets 35 energy per orb dropped, and the chance is still 1/40. That frame uses a CC ability and kills about 10 enemies under its effects. Out of those 10, 5 drop orbs that grant only 25.

Don't take these values seriously, the general idea is that energy orbs should create an ideal balance between the player's build and the player's usage of it. By rewarding less energy yet more orbs with nuke/CC abilities, players should encourage more reasonable and responsiable ability usage instead of seeing 3 enemies in a room then casting Peacemaker to kill them. If DE were to take this idea a step further, they could adjust energy orb drop rate/energy intake by how an individual Warframe's ability/kit functions (i.e easy-to-use abilities like WoF or Radial Blind should give less energy for enemies affected and/or killed than enemies affected and or killed by Mesa's 2 or Ivara's 4.)

TL;DR We don't need to have some sort of passive energy regen or to gain energy directly from killing enemies. We just need to buff base energy orb amount then have it scale based on a Warframe's energy pool, its efficiency, enemies affected and or killed, and whether or not it's damage, CC, or a buff. If this was taken to an extra step, DE could setup a Disposition-type system for energy orbs based on how the Warframe's kit/ability works for the most accurate results.

[low1991]

Implement a new function where players can medicate (medicate emote) to recover energy? Of cuz, slow rate & make you vulnerable to attacks.

And as for players whom unlock operator, frame in energy medication is cover in 'aura. (visual effects)

Those unlock AMP, frame looks like is partially in 'void' dimension (?)

Edited April 1, 2018 by low1991