The tweaks Stasis actually needs: from an actual Limbo main.

[Insizer]

Introduction:

Ok, so lets get this off the plate.  Limbo is a powerful frame with his hard CC, but this CC, particularly Stasis, can be a sore point for many players who don't play Limbo.  Many suggest changes to Stasis which I believe are well-intentioned, but misguided.  So I'm writing this thread to give my two cents as a Limbo main who often gets thank you's in public play.

Please note: this thread is more focused any issues regarding Stasis rather than anything else.

 

The Stasis "problem":

Stasis freezes enemy and allied fire.  People say that this and other tangent issues ("being forced to change my playstyle", etc) are the problem with Stasis.  My experience says different.

From my experience as a Limbo main, the problem is not so much the scope of Stasis itself (freeze every shot) rather the scale of its effects.  I only play public matchmaking and I do so with a small range (46%) build.  When I drop a CataStasis my allies can see the Stasis'd area, can see the few numbers of enemies frozen, and can easily avoid the area or choose on their own to jump on in and engage the enemies mostly on their terms.  They are not surprised by suddenly being tossed in a Stasis and not stripped of some of their capability without their consent.  This is what I see time and time again on both defensive and offensive missions.

Frankly, people don't really complain if can easily avoid a Stasis'd area, and if there aren't a large number of frozen enemies.  They see a relatively small bubble, say "oh, well that's Limbo's area" and turn their attention to other enemies because there are always other enemies.  They do complain on the other hand if they are unable to reasonably avoid being thrown into Stasis and if especially if they have to hunt around for frozen enemies like some Easter egg hunt.  All this comes down the "range" of Stasis, which means the range of Cataclysm 99% of the time. 

Think about it.  Imagine if Frost popped a default range Snowglobe that froze 7 enemies inside of it (without kicking them away).  Now imagine a Limbo dropping a Cataclysm the same size on those 7 enemies and Stasising them.  How annoying would that be, which one would be more annoying?  You can't shoot through Snowglobe and you can't shoot enemies in Cataclysm from outside of the Rift, both sets of enemies are frozen, and when you enter the respective bubbles you are within close/melee range.  But in the case of the CataStasis you can shoot through the Cataclysm to hit enemies on the other side and, if you were so possessed, you can enter the bubble and line up your shots with impunity.  Both of these have very similar effects and have very similar affects on gameplay.  Some may say this is still annoying, but it is clearly tolerable.  Now compare this smaller Stasis'd Cataclysm to a much larger one. There is no comparison which is more annoying.

My point to all of this: The range of Cataclysm functions as a multiplier for the effects of Stasis.  A smaller localized bubble of Stasis is not annoying.  What is annoying is a large Stasis'd area that you cannot avoid.

The main issue is "range" of Stasis, not scope.  There is not reason for max range builds to allow you to freeze an entire tile.

The Solution

Based on my experience, the best things the devs could do to "fix Stasis" is to:

1. Nerf the size of Cataclysm to match Snowglobe.
   1. Snowglobe is a good size already, allies are used to maneuvering around a "barrier" of that size, and they can more or less be avoided unless they are deliberately put in the way (in which case you can shoot through the Cataclysm to hit enemies on the other side (yes you can do this, and it feels great)). While max range builds can lead to an impressive size, it is not big enough to cover a tile and a half.
   2. The range of Rift Surge could also use a look at because max range of that can make things crazy as hell.  On the flipside, 50% range of it makes it pretty useless.
2. Make the activation of Stasis a faster one-handed action, or at least faster.
   1. This would make toggling much more practical and less annoying to do often.
3. Make Cataclysm's swirling animation change significantly when Stasis is active.
   1. For example, if the swirling animation stopped when Stasis was active then this would help early player comprehension by showing "something that usually swirls froze, something related to time control likely happened".  This will also help signal allies that this area is Stasis'd without them having to go inside to check. Furthermore it will help reveal trends of Limbos in match to their allies; they would be able to tell with certainty if that Limbo tends to drop Stasis'd Cataclysms all the time or not.
   2. A HUD icon that represents Stasis would be nice as well.

The first two tweaks will dramatically shift Limbo Stasis gameplay from a "hard lockdown everything" role to a much more tactical role without changing the scope of Stasis itself which, imo, is rather balanced.  The final tweak will better relay information to allies which is always nice.

[-AoN-CanoLathra-]

I think nerfing the range of Cataclysm would be fine if they made it not shrink over time. Plus, it would make Cataclysm's augment far more useful.

[ShogunGunshow]

Or just let players shoot things.

As cool as freezing your projectiles is in a thematic sense, it's just irritating all around. And it's not like there aren't frames that already CC just as hard, and don't impose goofy restrictions on peoples' damage output. 

[PsiWarp]

Not strictly about Stasis but it would help a lot if you are in the Rift, rift-bound enemies had an Argonak zoom-like highlight around them, so you instantly know who you can attack (and see clearly if they are standing completely still, hinting Stasis is active).

Edited April 2, 2018 by PsiWarp

[Bobtm]

While these changes could work to a degree, they still in all honesty miss the mark of wherein the core issues lie.  There's simply no two ways about it that Stasis has no right to be allowing one player to arbitrarily control the gunfire of others, period.  Changing Cataclysm's range is not more than a simple workaround that skirts the real problem without making any noteworthy improvements to the real problem that's at center stage.  In addition shrinking its range down also further cements Limbo into the shoehorned role of "automatic win button in "defend the thing" type missions" which is a bit disheartening given how varied his kit could allow him to be during combat otherwise.

If it were down to being these changes or no changes at all, I'd regretfully accept these ones.  However I sincerely think this is clearly the wrong direction to go in, with regards to the Limbo problem.  All it does is shrink the scope of things, without really fixing anything.

A better solution that's both more mechanically intriguing and overall superior for Limbo's interactions with others is to open up control of his mechanics to the squadmates paired with him.  Many Limbo posts, with some recent ones being extra noteworthy, touch on this particular concept.  And those are the kinds of changes that would do much better for Limbo as a frame among many varied frames in Warframe.  Things like but not limited to;

• Making Stasis cast by Limbo effect only his own bullets, and the enemies within the Rift.
• Allowing allies to better enter and exit the Rift at their own discretion after coming into contact with Limbo's effects.  Like allowing allies to dodge forward to enter/exit the Rift after they touch a portal or have Banish cast upon them.  Rather than immediately sending them to the Rift.
• Allowing allies to freeze and unfreeze their own gunfire in some manner.  Commonly suggested to be tied to rolling to enter/leave the rift, or other simple actions.
• Allowing allies to backflip and remove any current buffs/effects placed upon them by interacting with Limbo's effects.
• Incorporate melee channeling as a cross-Rift mechanic in some variety.

These kinds of changes are those that speak to actually fleshing out Limbo's interactions with others and streamlining how his powers work in a squad.  Removing the current flaws created by giving one player an arbitrarily large amount of control of their allies' movements and actions.  While simultaneously opening up many new strategies and combinations by allowing those same allied players much more control of when and how the Rift's abilities happen to them.

And if his powers were changed like this, allowing a Limbo player to essentially impart his gift unto others in a temporary and more limited manner (since allies couldn't do nearly as much as he can with the Rift), it would immediately make folks welcome a Limbo to their party.  Because instead of taking away options and gameplay, he would add to it, which is a great thing.  Atop that it could also open up room for giving Limbo one new trait just to spice up his combat options a bit when not living down in Rift-town;  An Augment for Stasis which would allow the Limbo player to freeze and unfreeze their own gunfire whether they're in the Rift or not.

[EinheriarJudith]

1 hour ago, Bobtm said:

While these changes could work to a degree, they still in all honesty miss the mark of wherein the core issues lie.  There's simply no two ways about it that Stasis has no right to be allowing one player to arbitrarily control the gunfire of others, period.  Changing Cataclysm's range is not more than a simple workaround that skirts the real problem without making any noteworthy improvements to the real problem that's at center stage.  In addition shrinking its range down also further cements Limbo into the shoehorned role of "automatic win button in "defend the thing" type missions" which is a bit disheartening given how varied his kit could allow him to be during combat otherwise.

If it were down to being these changes or no changes at all, I'd regretfully accept these ones.  However I sincerely think this is clearly the wrong direction to go in, with regards to the Limbo problem.  All it does is shrink the scope of things, without really fixing anything.

A better solution that's both more mechanically intriguing and overall superior for Limbo's interactions with others is to open up control of his mechanics to the squadmates paired with him.  Many Limbo posts, with some recent ones being extra noteworthy, touch on this particular concept.  And those are the kinds of changes that would do much better for Limbo as a frame among many varied frames in Warframe.  Things like but not limited to;

• Making Stasis cast by Limbo effect only his own bullets, and the enemies within the Rift.
• Allowing allies to better enter and exit the Rift at their own discretion after coming into contact with Limbo's effects.  Like allowing allies to dodge forward to enter/exit the Rift after they touch a portal or have Banish cast upon them.  Rather than immediately sending them to the Rift.
• Allowing allies to freeze and unfreeze their own gunfire in some manner.  Commonly suggested to be tied to rolling to enter/leave the rift, or other simple actions.
• Allowing allies to backflip and remove any current buffs/effects placed upon them by interacting with Limbo's effects.
• Incorporate melee channeling as a cross-Rift mechanic in some variety.

These kinds of changes are those that speak to actually fleshing out Limbo's interactions with others and streamlining how his powers work in a squad.  Removing the current flaws created by giving one player an arbitrarily large amount of control of their allies' movements and actions.  While simultaneously opening up many new strategies and combinations by allowing those same allied players much more control of when and how the Rift's abilities happen to them.

And if his powers were changed like this, allowing a Limbo player to essentially impart his gift unto others in a temporary and more limited manner (since allies couldn't do nearly as much as he can with the Rift), it would immediately make folks welcome a Limbo to their party.  Because instead of taking away options and gameplay, he would add to it, which is a great thing.  Atop that it could also open up room for giving Limbo one new trait just to spice up his combat options a bit when not living down in Rift-town;  An Augment for Stasis which would allow the Limbo player to freeze and unfreeze their own gunfire whether they're in the Rift or not.

i was and still am heavily against them removing rift walk and replacing roll with going into the rift. 33 out of 34 frames use roll as a dodge parkour mechanic. to add that same function to every other frame when limbo is in the squad would make me quit altogether. the biggest problem with limbo is The Rift imo. the rift removes enemies from play, removes players from play, removes objects from play and when combined with stasis removes guns from play. that mechanic has no place in this game (im not saying its bad). i said it in one of the other threads. this isn't a single player game or a tactical shooter where the rift would actually be good.

The rift causes a significant disruption in playing the game. players have to fight on one side or the other (which again doesn't fit this game) they could have done stasis like how it is in mass effect. they could have instead made banishing enemies to the rift lethal rather than banishing them there as a way to displace them to be dealt with later. the only missions where you don't have to kill to complete the objective are: hijack, mobile defense, rescue, defection, hive, and spy (unless lotus says change of plans). all of those modes can be done with frames that do not disrupt combat. there is not one single mode in this game that makes The Rift stand out imo.

lastly i would like to say i dont want to have to micromanage the rift and manage my own frames powers when a limbo enters the squad.

Edited April 2, 2018 by EinheriarJudith

[PsiWarp]

@EinheriarJudith Perhaps it would be beneficial to introduce conditions to balance out the usage of the Rift Plane mechanic, so that on the surface it keeps the combat experience relatively similar to games without Limbo (like normal) and have the game optimized to automate these interactions.

• All forms of damage are no longer blocked by the Rift Plane. Shield & Health points will drop when you and enemies receive any damage.
• Damage from Rift-bound and material-bound ranged weapon attacks & melee attacks are taken into consideration to create a pseudo-invulnerability effect:
  • Enemy damage you receive is reduced by a flat 50% if from the opposite dimension. Ally damage is still 100% all the time.
  • All entities (players, companions, friendly AI, enemies, and objectives) cannot die to damage they receive from the opposite dimension. Lethal damage is nullified and stops at 2 HP, much like Quick Thinking.
  • But, they can die to damage dealt in the same dimension, just like normal.
  • Ability damage is exempt from this restriction, they will always be able to kill enemies.
• Enemies that receive opposite dimension damage are forced out from the Rift (ending Banish and Surge-Banish), if the damage received results in their current health dropping below 50% of their maximum health.
  • Damage received from same dimension will not kick them out from the Rift.
• Enemies inside Cataclysm that are kicked out by opposite dimension damage become immune to Cataclysm for 3 seconds, but can be forced back into the Rift by Banish & Rift Surge during that time. After 3 seconds, Cataclysm will affect those enemies again, keeping them in the Rift as long as they are in range.
  • Designed to avoid exploitation from player shooting into Cataclysm just being able to keep popping enemies in and out of the Rift, while they are re-frozen by Stasis over and over instantly.
• Allies and Limbo are never forced out from the Rift by opposite dimension damage from enemies. Only timers, rolling, backflip, and nullifying effects can make them exit.

So these are quite specific conditions but they do encompass almost all mission types. Assuming that they are implemented as an underlying system, what the players see are much simpler:

• "Hey my weapons hurt enemies touched by Limbo, nice."
• "I take less damage from some enemies, huh."
• "Hey this guy on fire can't kill me, and I can't seem to die if my screen looks funny, cool."
• "This guy I was gunning down was on fire, then he wasn't and I killed him. Sweet."
• "Wow I can actually kill enemies in Limbo's bubble with my guns, and I am standing a room away"

And for Limbo players, all they have to do to ensure their safety against Rift-bound enemies is turn on Stasis, while having some way to heal themselves before going out to the material plane.

Edited April 3, 2018 by PsiWarp
clarified

[EinheriarJudith]

1 hour ago, PsiWarp said:

 

• All forms of damage are no longer blocked by the Rift Plane. Shield & Health points will drop when you and enemies receive any damage.

this one right here will turn him from the most hated into the most loved. it will also mean DE can just remove what ever mechanic they use to allow you to pick items up from one plane or the other (no more not being able to hack or hold objects). your other points are also amazing. having DR rather than invulnerablity i really like solves the issue of him being squish without having to forego killing to stay in the rift.  staying in the rift will be amazing at this point no one will want to not be in it so prolly wont need an opt out. stasis will need repurposing.

Edited April 3, 2018 by EinheriarJudith

[Olianu]

I read this post and had deja vu.  I ran into a low range limbo on the kuva Fortress and it was quite tolerable to be around.  But you're 100% right.  Cataclysm could use those changes and possibly not collapse until the last 5/10 seconds of the duration for explosive damage to enemies inside?

 

Coming from someone that usually melee attacks, I rarely have a problem with Limbo, but have seen the frustration in other players.

[Somb3rBivalve]

5 hours ago, ShogunGunshow said:

Or just let players shoot things.

As cool as freezing your projectiles is in a thematic sense, it's just irritating all around. And it's not like there aren't frames that already CC just as hard, and don't impose goofy restrictions on peoples' damage output. 

Hmmm. I don't think there are any frames that can CC as hard as limbo can. Completely shut down ALL enemy action within an entire room for upwards of a minute? I'm having a hard time thinking of anything.

[EinheriarJudith]

1 hour ago, Somb3rBivalve said:

Hmmm. I don't think there are any frames that can CC as hard as limbo can. Completely shut down ALL enemy action within an entire room for upwards of a minute? I'm having a hard time thinking of anything.

Stomp, Sound Quake, Avalanche. to name a few an none of the 3 turn off peoples guns. stasis is Over Excessive CC. the enemies can be as easy as a hot knife cutting through butter but limbo will still turn off peoples guns with stasis.

Edited April 3, 2018 by EinheriarJudith

[Helaton]

Just some ideas:

Banish

Let it work like Blade storm of marking targets.  Have a small energy cost per target.  (I prefer this method as banish can be a bit inaccurate. While target marking is very deliberate and takes a little time to mark targets that might be easy trash kills for other players, while tougher enemies may stay marked.)

Stasis

I always wanted stasis as a 'bullet-time' effect.  For x meters around Limbo (say 3 + range enhancement), bullets come to a stop. (If bullets are outside of this range, i.e. Limbo moves out of range of the bullets), the bullets resume their journey where Limbo once was. This would make the AoE of stasis smaller and more of a personal protection for a Limbo, rather than wide ranging. Also stasis would work off energy drain.

By making it small and centered on limbo, you can run out, shoot lots of bullets in a general direction, move away a short distance and all those bullets go down the hallway when they are out of range of stasis. If limbo runs into the bullets, he'll still take the damage.

Rift Surge

Allow rift surge to destroy stasis'd bullets. (In case limbo is surrounded by bullets and can only run into them).

Cataclysm

Cataclysm doesn't automatically throw everyone into the rift.  You need to be banished to the rift to be affected by cataclysm.  Make the cataclysm 'pulse' as it shrinks. Each pulse does damage and restores warframe energy to any friendlies/enemies in the rift versus what it does now. Allow the manual 'popping' of a cataclysm with rift surge. For a small energy burst and some damage/knockdowns.

 

[Femuru]

u kno im one of the ppl who truly hate limbo and it feels good to see a limbo main who giving good ideas instead of saying git gud to everyone else who just hate limbo trolls. so now i want to toss in some quick idea thatll probly make ppl stop raging from having a particular frame in the party.

Cataclysm: i like the idea of making it smaller and be less a nuisance, but how about it gets a fixed size (so range mods have no effect) and at the same time not suffer from shrinking in size as well. 

Stasis: this could be fixed wit banish keep reading lol

Banish: just make it so he cant banish allies this is the one thing that annoy ppl idc if im hitting a random enemy thats in the rift ill say oopsie and kill something else but on u the player thats in the same party gets banished is a different feeling. id be fine if i cant shoot in/thru cataclysm wat gets me and everyone else is wen a random limbo follow u the entire match and keep banishing u non stop. ps dont give me the rolling excuse it gets annoying after awhile.

[EinheriarJudith]

36 minutes ago, ShenRyujin said:

u kno im one of the ppl who truly hate limbo and it feels good to see a limbo main who giving good ideas instead of saying git gud to everyone else who just hate limbo trolls. so now i want to toss in some quick idea thatll probly make ppl stop raging from having a particular frame in the party.

Cataclysm: i like the idea of making it smaller and be less a nuisance, but how about it gets a fixed size (so range mods have no effect) and at the same time not suffer from shrinking in size as well. 

Stasis: this could be fixed wit banish keep reading lol

Banish: just make it so he cant banish allies this is the one thing that annoy ppl idc if im hitting a random enemy thats in the rift ill say oopsie and kill something else but on u the player thats in the same party gets banished is a different feeling. id be fine if i cant shoot in/thru cataclysm wat gets me and everyone else is wen a random limbo follow u the entire match and keep banishing u non stop. ps dont give me the rolling excuse it gets annoying after awhile.

PsiWarp had the best suggestion imo. again the problem is the rift. if they dont use even his first bullet point, any change they make will be complete garbage.

Edited April 3, 2018 by EinheriarJudith

[Viges]

Leave Limbo alone and change all these annoying speed buffing Volts. Doing backflip every few seconds is way worse than avoiding rift.

 

And your changes to Limbo are bad. If you want to play him as Frost, then just play Frost. Limbo can do much much more than just protecting small areas. Fake Limbo main is fake.

[(XBOX)Artakka]

This topic I do not agree with. Range on cataclysm is invaluable. I often spec for range and duration, and keep it up for the energy restore. Having a huge range on cataclysm allows me to cover an entire area with a nonstop energy restore. I generally don't use stasis, and WHEN I ask, if my squad requests stasis (sortie cheese) then I will use it. Stasis (in my personal opinion) should be changed to a 90% or so slow on enemy movement and projectile speed, and should not affect squad members at all. "But this would make limbo too op!!" Well, to counter this, decrease our weapon damage, but not melee. This way, we can use our weapons, at full speed, not have limbo too overpowered, still give players the option to melee, and also give players the option to spec for range or not. We saw what happened when DE nerfed embers range. I doubt cataclysm would be much different. It's range is not the issue, stasis is.

[Gandergear]

If players cant play with a min range limbo its a clear sign theyre not capable of moderate critical thinking

[SixDimensions]

22 hours ago, Helaton said:

(snip)

You know, these are some really interesting changes.  I haven't been a fan of a lot of rework ideas that I've seen for Limbo but this is one I would definitely be interested in playing.  In your version of Stasis, are enemies still frozen or does it just affect their shots as it gets to him?

I also had an idea of Stasis being a pulsed ability. Basically enemies and bullets and frozen, then they pulse forward momentarily in accelerated movement before freezing again.  (Think red light, green light as a kid) This would give enemies a very creepy, disjointed appeal to and for a brief window they could cause a lot of damage if you don't plan properly

[BlackCoMerc]

On 4/2/2018 at 7:23 PM, EinheriarJudith said:

i was and still am heavily against them removing rift walk and replacing roll with going into the rift. 33 out of 34 frames use roll as a dodge parkour mechanic. to add that same function to every other frame when limbo is in the squad would make me quit altogether. the biggest problem with limbo is The Rift imo. the rift removes enemies from play, removes players from play, removes objects from play and when combined with stasis removes guns from play. that mechanic has no place in this game (im not saying its bad). i said it in one of the other threads. this isn't a single player game or a tactical shooter where the rift would actually be good.

The rift causes a significant disruption in playing the game. players have to fight on one side or the other (which again doesn't fit this game) they could have done stasis like how it is in mass effect. they could have instead made banishing enemies to the rift lethal rather than banishing them there as a way to displace them to be dealt with later. the only missions where you don't have to kill to complete the objective are: hijack, mobile defense, rescue, defection, hive, and spy (unless lotus says change of plans). all of those modes can be done with frames that do not disrupt combat. there is not one single mode in this game that makes The Rift stand out imo.

lastly i would like to say i dont want to have to micromanage the rift and manage my own frames powers when a limbo enters the squad.

Finally. Someone else gets it.

It's time for The Rift to go. It does not work in a multiplayer game. Period.

If you want Limbo to stop enemy movement and projectiles, fine. Let him do that. Without the Rift gimmick.

The only thing that should ever enter the Right is Limbo. That's it. Period.

[BlackCoMerc]

How bout this Limbo:

Dodging toggles Void walk. While Void Charged, Limbo restores energy to himself and nearby allies, but cannot deal or take damage.

1. Void Surge: Limbo fires off a cone shaped surge of Void energy. Allies affected gain Shield and Energy restore over a few seconds. Enemies affected have their armor/shields reduced by a percentage of their totals.

Augment: Crushing Surge. Surged enemies are knocked down.and pushed away. Enemies hit convey the surge to other enemies nearby. If the enemies are knocked outside of a Cataclysm they take damage from the transition, but remain Supercharged (see below).

 

2. Stasis: Enemies and enemy projectiles  are slowed up to 50%. This amount is doubled if enemies are affected by Void energy.

Augment: Stasis Trap. Limbo instead leaves a Stasis Trap at his current or a target location, slowing enemies and their projectiles that come into contact with it. Enemies in the trap are Void Surged.

 

3. Void Blast: Limbo channels a gradually increasing amount of Void energy. Enemies within range are pulled toward the energy. 

Upon release, the charge explodes. Enemies in range are dealt significant Void damage and ragdolled. These enemies remain Void Surged for up to 10 seconds following the explosion.

The longer you channel, the more powerful the blast. Enemies can.be slightly staggered (quick cast) all the way to knocked down (longer channel). Limbo has full ground movement while channeling, but cannot bullet jump or Dodge roll.

Augment: Void Bomb. The Boid Blast leaves Limbo and travels quickly in the direction you aim, gaining size, speed and strength the longer you channel it.

 

4. Void Storm: Limbo envelops an area in Void energy, walling it off from our universe. The longer you channel before releasing, the larger the Storm.

While inside Limbo and allies gain energy and shield restoration and are safe from ALL enemy projectiles originating outside the Void Storm, however, allies can shoot and use abilities on, enemies outside.

Enemies inside the Void Storm are rift surged. When the Cataclysm ends, enemies are Supercharged with Void energy and are stunned. While Supercharged, enemies take additional damage and all effects and damage from Limbo abilities are doubled.

Augment: Cataclysm. Upon cast, the Void Storm expands rapidly, filling an area with Void energy. Then the storm explodes, Void Surging enemies and allies within range.

Enemies are dealt damage upon being enveloped as well as when the storm explodes. Enemies already Void Surged take double the damage.

Note: enemies affected by Stasis have the duration eextended whenched hit by new Void Surges. Allies have energy Regen/shield restore extended.

Void Blasting inside a Storm extends the storms duration and strength, and will knock enemies around inside the storm for more damage.

Void Surge increases the diameter of a Void Storm, of cast inside. If cast outside, it collapses the storm violently, dealing additional damage.

So there. Similar to the current version, no Rift. And even synergizes with Operator, with the swap to Void energy.

 

[(PSN)ForNoPurpose]

best ways to fix limbo one of two changes

 

Stasis not affecting projectiles

or

Way to damage enemies cross-dimension.

 

I propose that Rift Surge allow the affected target to be damaged and deal damage to targets reguardless of dimension (risk of taking damage but reward of being able to shoot the target while it is in stasis in the rift)

also i feel that all allies in the rift should gain energy from kills, not just limbo. Base this effect on Affinity range around limbo and have the total energy restored be = half limbos regain on rift kills.

 

 

i have said before its the inability to damage across dimensions that is a bigger issue to stasis, as if you could damage enemies reguardless of dimension, limbo could safely use stasis while his allies stay out of the rift to attack enemies in stasis.

Edited April 4, 2018 by (PS4)ForNoPurpose

[(XBOX)Artakka]

2 hours ago, Gandergear said:

If players cant play with a min range limbo its a clear sign theyre not capable of moderate critical thinking

It's not that they're not capable of "critical thinking". A min range Limbo is really no better than frost. Cover the map in an energy restore without stasis and we'll see how many people begin to appreciate limbo.

[BlackCoMerc]

51 minutes ago, (XB1)Young Boy HT said:

It's not that they're not capable of "critical thinking". A min range Limbo is really no better than frost. Cover the map in an energy restore without stasis and we'll see how many people begin to appreciate limbo.

Exactly this.

Honestly, Rift as a separate plane doesn't work. Especially since DE just disregard it whenever they desire to.

[DeliciousDoob69]

22 minutes ago, (PS4)ForNoPurpose said:

best ways to fix limbo one of two changes

 

Stasis not affecting projectiles

or

Way to damage enemies cross-dimension.

 

I propose that Rift Surge allow the affected target to be damaged and deal damage to targets reguardless of dimension (risk of taking damage but reward of being able to shoot the target while it is in stasis in the rift)

also i feel that all allies in the rift should gain energy from kills, not just limbo. Base this effect on Affinity range around limbo and have the total energy restored be = half limbos regain on rift kills.

 

 

i have said before its the inability to damage across dimensions that is a bigger issue to stasis, as if you could damage enemies reguardless of dimension, limbo could safely use stasis while his allies stay out of the rift to attack enemies in stasis.

I kinda talked about this in another post called "Limbo and the Mountains of Salt" The Rift shouldn't totally divide the 2 Dimensions. Obviously we can run into enemies and walls, why can't we hack a console or shoot someone? It's apparent we're still on the same plane right, we're just in a ghostly realm. Limbo should receive damage reduction while being attacked cross rift, base 60% max 90% based on strength (150% Power Strength to reach the max 90%). Also while attacking cross rift enemies you deal reduced damage, lets say 40% reduced damage minimum 20% reduced damage based off Efficiency (150% Power Efficiency for the minimum 20%). Your allies receive and suffer the same bonuses as you would if you were to banish them into the rift. If you banish enemies into the rift (via cataclysm, rift surge, or banish) they deal a flat 50% reduce damage to those inside and outside of the rift, this represents their unfamiliarity with attacking in the ghostly realm of the Rift. 

Of course let him do everything else cross rift as well then such as picking stuff up, pressing buttons, hacking console, and etc.

I also think all of his powers should be one handed casts just cause.

I really do think a change like this would pretty much clear up all the problems with Limbo haters in general. It would open up different play styles and stasis would probably be used more sparingly or precisely.

[PsiWarp]

Hmm. What if we altered the drawbacks and benefits necessary to balance Stasis, to be less severe and absolute while keeping to the theme of controlling time in the Rift?

Idea

Stasis = active

• All rift-bound enemies and their attacks are frozen.
• Only the Limbo who cast Stasis has his rift-bound attacks frozen. Allies' rift-bound attacks are unaffected, this includes Sentinel's weapon attacks.

Stasis = expires, reaches limit, or deactivated

• If only 1 Limbo in squad, rift-bound enemies and their attacks resume movement.
• If 2 or more Limbos in squad, as long as 1 Stasis is still active, rift-bound enemies and their attacks stay frozen.
• As long as you are a Limbo who doesn't have his Stasis turned on, your rift-bound attacks keep moving.

Stasis-ed enemies

• Stasis-ed enemies that take sustained weapon damage gradually regain their movement and attack speed, but quickly decays back to 0% speed (frozen again) if they haven't taken damage recently.
• When Stasis-ed enemies are killed, any rift-bound projectiles they made while they are alive will instantly disappear (poof, gone, erased from existence, do no damage).
• Damage from abilities do not cause Stasis-ed enemies to move.

Examples

Spoiler

 

• Banished teammate unloads a Soma at Stasis-ed Heavy Gunner, the bullets connect dealing damage, Heavy Gunner regains 1% speed on the first hit and slowly crawls away or reacts by shooting. Teammate keeps gunning the gunner doing damage to her, as she gradually walks and attacks faster (2%, 3%, 4%, etc). Teammate stops to reload, Heavy Gunner slows down very quickly and then is frozen again (drop from 50% speed to 0% over the course of 2 seconds, for example).

 

• Inside Cataclysm, Limbo spins to win with a Riven-ed Atterax against enemies stuck at the borders, keeping his distance while those enemies inch closer into the bubble. He is safe from their projectiles but he has to keep his distance from melee attacks that can hurt him. Since he is inside Cataclysm, any Banishes he casts will only do damage and knockdown, so he can CC any enemies close enough to actually touch him and do ground finishers.

 

• Limbo turns on Stasis then banishes enemies and a teammate in front of him. Under normal circumstances, the teammate can only use melee to do instant damage to those enemies. After the changes, he can now shoot his guns hitting his targets, which will slowly move again depending on how long they are taking damage. The teammate can also use abilities to prevent enemies from moving at all, or melee to his heart's content. Limbo can choose to leave them alone or join the fight. Teammate can choose to roll out from Banish at any time.

 

Analysis

Spoiler

 

So now, we eliminate the problem with Limbo delaying his team's ranged damage output inside the Rift. The newly re-enabled ranged attack interaction between players and enemies during Stasis is balanced by the fact that, targeted enemies hit by weapons can retaliate, but they are put at a huge disadvantage by having all their actions slowed, as well as having their newly created ranged attacks frozen by Stasis; players can choose to stop their advance to take a breather, and those enemies will promptly freeze in time again.

Since Limbo's very own rift-bound ranged attacks are frozen too if his Stasis is active, he is limited to using melee or actually taking advantage of the situation by preparing a barrage of gunfire to unleash hell when he is ready. Multiple Limbos can work together to prolong Stasis, and also unfreeze their own ranged attacks to fight at their discretion (keeping in mind that enemies hit will move, but are effectively restricted to melee to do any instant damage against players in the Rift).

Because ally gunfire are no longer affected, their ranged attacks won't count toward Stasis' 300 limit. Limbo now has to worry less about Stasis abruptly ending because of allies (unless they are other Limbos who turned on Stasis as well, their shots do count), and monitor the amount of ranged attacks from Stasis-ed enemies unfrozen from weapon damage. As long as those enemies were killed, their ranged attacks will disappear, therefore no longer count towards Stasis' 300 limit.

If Limbo can't kill enemies quickly enough before their ranged attacks fill the Rift and break Stasis, then he will need to dodge and/or quickly reactivate Stasis, keeping him on his toes. There's now also a good reason to use Banish inside Cataclysm for the AoE knockdown to CC enemies.

 

I believe that would address the problem with Stasis halting gunplay inside the Rift, fix the clunky control issue with Stasis for multiple Limbos on a team, heavily reduce the amount of times Stasis can break from ally gunfire and make Sentinel weapons a viable option in the Rift, create incentives to Banish/unbanish and Rift Surge more often.

Edited April 4, 2018 by PsiWarp
sectioned off, added more examples