These Are Not Scythes

[Mental_Omega]

On 2018-05-08 at 10:03 PM, SneakyErvin said:

And yet you need to repeat what I said yet another time without the full context?

Anyways, my point was more that while stupid, they can still be implemented the right way as I said with the D3 comparison. I think the stabby-hatchet versions we have has done a good job with it aswell. They arent bulky and there are weapons that are actually similar to them irl, like helmet-crushers with their long piercing beak-like design. The cetus scythes follow this "logic" theme due to the short haft making them some form of piercing option compared to a regular cutting or slashing hatchet or a blunt hammer.

Now dont get me wrong, I love the long scythes... in fantasy games where it kinda can feel appropriate (gods know I loved my sylvan valewalker). But the whole idea of a scythe feels so far fetched in a modern setting and even more so in a sci-fi futuristic setting.

Nearly every melee weapon is stupid and impractically designed.  The Scindo Prime and literally every hammer's head is so large that you shouldn't be able to practically swing it no matter how strong.  The galatine prime is literally the only heavy weapon with a sensible blade designed.   Nearly all the single handed blades are horrendously balanced.  None of the gunblades would be practical as guns or as blades.  The whips are more likely to hurt yourself than the enemy.  Silva and Aegis prime would be bad as a mace or a shield.

It's all stupid to the eyes of a martial arts practicioner.  But it doesn't matter because it's all made for the purpose of looking cool.

 

Also Warframe is not science fiction.  It is Space Fantasy; just like Star Wars and Warhammer 40,000.   The "Science fiction" is a thin veneer of aesthetic but almost all the actual tropes in use are born from fantasy stories, not science fiction.  The leaders of the grineer are evil witches, instead of the science fiction veneer of "psionics" the void is just straight up magic born of actual hell complete with demons in the form of the man in the wall, the Tenno are an order of what amounts to knights or samurai, and so on so forth.

Edited May 12, 2018 by Mental_Omega

[Kaokasalis]

The scythes in Warframe are as much a scythe in any other game were they are used as weapons which they aint.. They are farm tools.

Edited May 12, 2018 by Hieracon

[SneakyErvin]

5 hours ago, Mental_Omega said:

Also Warframe is not science fiction.  It is Space Fantasy; just like Star Wars and Warhammer 40,000.   The "Science fiction" is a thin veneer of aesthetic but almost all the actual tropes in use are born from fantasy stories, not science fiction.  The leaders of the grineer are evil witches, instead of the science fiction veneer of "psionics" the void is just straight up magic born of actual hell complete with demons in the form of the man in the wall, the Tenno are an order of what amounts to knights or samurai, and so on so forth.

Never heard anything called space fantasy. I've seen Space Opera refering to Star Wars and I'd call this aswell as WH40k sci-fi/techno/science fantasy much like Warzone/Mutant Chronicles (no not the S#&$ty movie, the awesome swedish rpg). All also have a very dystopian backstory. "Science Fiction" isnt thin, it is what it is. Here it is both that it is set in our very own solar system aswell as us using weapons and equipment of fictional science. Fantasy and Sci-fi doesnt have to be exclusive to one another, they go well together and explain different things in their setting.

This isnt unlike WH40k that has several sci-fi elements just as it has several fantasy elements. Mostly the two combine but at times on or the other takes a more clear step ahead of the other. The strong presence of bth can be seen in Chaos Marines just as sci-fi is pretty much null and void when it comes to demons and fantasy isnt present much with the Tyranids or Nekrons.

In Warzone/Mutant Chronicles you have the Dark Legion and the Brotherhood that are very much fantasy inspired. The Dark Legion also draws heavy inspiration from Clive Barker, very notably the Cenobites. Then you have the corporations, the new rulers of our solar system after all governments are gone, that are highly sci-fi inspired. Each drawing inspiration from different cultures, countries or human vanities of today. High tech weaponry, cybernetics and warmachines being a big focus, anything from small high tech machine pistols to mechanical Samurai suits or warbots.

[Mental_Omega]

17 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Never heard anything called space fantasy. I've seen Space Opera refering to Star Wars and I'd call this aswell as WH40k sci-fi/techno/science fantasy much like Warzone/Mutant Chronicles (no not the S#&$ty movie, the awesome swedish rpg). All also have a very dystopian backstory. "Science Fiction" isnt thin, it is what it is. Here it is both that it is set in our very own solar system aswell as us using weapons and equipment of fictional science. Fantasy and Sci-fi doesnt have to be exclusive to one another, they go well together and explain different things in their setting.

This isnt unlike WH40k that has several sci-fi elements just as it has several fantasy elements. Mostly the two combine but at times on or the other takes a more clear step ahead of the other. The strong presence of bth can be seen in Chaos Marines just as sci-fi is pretty much null and void when it comes to demons and fantasy isnt present much with the Tyranids or Nekrons.

In Warzone/Mutant Chronicles you have the Dark Legion and the Brotherhood that are very much fantasy inspired. The Dark Legion also draws heavy inspiration from Clive Barker, very notably the Cenobites. Then you have the corporations, the new rulers of our solar system after all governments are gone, that are highly sci-fi inspired. Each drawing inspiration from different cultures, countries or human vanities of today. High tech weaponry, cybernetics and warmachines being a big focus, anything from small high tech machine pistols to mechanical Samurai suits or warbots.

Space Fantasy is a relatively new appelation for works that wear science fiction clothes but are really all about fantasy tropes like star wars and 40k. 

Also the Necrons are literally the Tomb Kings from Warhammer Fantasy dressed up with a paper thin facade of being science fictionish.  They draw far more on undead tropes than robot tropes which is why people have asked for a men of iron army for more proper robots instead of possessed golems.  

[rune_me]

Technically, those should be called a sickle.

[rune_me]

5 hours ago, Mental_Omega said:

Space Fantasy is a relatively new appelation for works that wear science fiction clothes but are really all about fantasy tropes like star wars and 40k. 

We used to just call that soft science-fiction. Which was sort of a term for anything that didn't care too much about the science or engineering of things. How does that hyperdrive actually work? Oh you know, it's sci-fi, so it's just there.

[SneakyErvin]

4 hours ago, Mental_Omega said:

Space Fantasy is a relatively new appelation for works that wear science fiction clothes but are really all about fantasy tropes like star wars and 40k. 

Also the Necrons are literally the Tomb Kings from Warhammer Fantasy dressed up with a paper thin facade of being science fictionish.  They draw far more on undead tropes than robot tropes which is why people have asked for a men of iron army for more proper robots instead of possessed golems.  

Neither of it removes the part of sci-fi in them. Space Fantasy, Space Opera, Space Western and so on are just subgenres of sci-fi. Just as you have Cyberpunk, Steampunk and even post-apocalyptic settings that are subgenres of sci-fi. It all mixes well with other genres, like Fantasy mixed with Sci-Fi to bring us things like Star Wars, 40k and also a large part of the Marvel Universe.

[Mental_Omega]

1 hour ago, rune_me said:

We used to just call that soft science-fiction. Which was sort of a term for anything that didn't care too much about the science or engineering of things. How does that hyperdrive actually work? Oh you know, it's sci-fi, so it's just there.

It's not about how "soft" it is.  It's about the tropes in use and the kinds of stories told.

 

if you have to rescue a space princess from a space dragon with space magic, it's a fantasy story even if the lance they use shoots lasers and their armour is powered.

 

How advanced a setting is is nothing more than aesthetics.  Percy Jackson and Homestuck are both fantasy stories despite taking place in the modern era because of the kind of stories they are.  40k is usually used to tell what are ultimately fantasy stories, and so is Warframe; so it's more of a fantasy setting than a science fiction setting.

 

 

Edited May 13, 2018 by Mental_Omega

[rune_me]

5 minutes ago, Mental_Omega said:

It's not about how "soft" it is.  It's about the tropes in use and the kinds of stories told.

 

if you have to rescue a space princess from a space dragon with space magic, it's a fantasy story even if the lance they use shoots lasers and their armour is powered.

I get it. I just never heard the term before. Space Opera covers the same genre, like Star Wars, Flash Gordon, etc. Star Wars was always classified as a space opera. Pretty sure it still is. Space Opera usually focuses on typical fairy tale tropes like knights (not necessarily a literal knight) and chivalry, and good vs evil. 

 

[Mental_Omega]

2 minutes ago, rune_me said:

I get it. I just never heard the term before. Space Opera covers the same genre, like Star Wars, Flash Gordon, etc. Star Wars was always classified as a space opera. Pretty sure it still is. Space Opera usually focuses on typical fairy tale tropes like knights (not necessarily a literal knight) and chivalry, and good vs evil. 

 

Space Opera covers a very specific kind of story involving war, melodramatic adventure, and romance primarily.

Fantasy covers a much wider variety of stories than that.  

To make it simpler, Space Opera is a kind of story which is rather often Space Fantasy (but not always, Mass Effect is a Space Opera but does not use fantasy tropes very much; and so falls into Science Fiction), Space Fantasy is a subgenre of fantasy.

 

 

Edited May 13, 2018 by Mental_Omega

[Soki01]

heavy blade with the scythe strike looks good

[GreyEnneract]

9 hours ago, Soki01 said:

heavy blade with the scythe strike looks good

Still looks like a coat hanger :^)
And my friends still just think it's a big boomerang  👀

[caffarella]

just an idea..

How about set all current small scythe weapon class into "sickle" ? all current scythe stance like stalking fan should be changed into sickle too..

and make a new weapon class, which a bigger, proper scythe that use a new 2H stance to match it..
no need to make it so big, just have staff / polearm length is enough..
this would clear everything up..

what do u guys think?

[FreeWilliam]

On 2018-04-20 at 5:01 PM, GreyEnneract said:

I've put up with it long enough.The pre-built "scythes" were already small and insulting enough. 
But these? Who designed these? Have they played any other game with a Scythe in it?

This is such a surreal thing to see people getting pedantic about. It's not even a real weapon, it's an ineffective cartoon one.

I mean, this is a game with a rocket bow...so I'm not going to obsess over accuracy, but if I was going to focus on weapons being realistic any two-handed scythe type weapon would be out the door or converted into a decent polearm.  (Also, we'd get spears)

[GreyEnneract]

57 minutes ago, FreeWilliam said:

This is such a surreal thing to see people getting pedantic about. It's not even a real weapon, it's an ineffective cartoon one.

I mean, this is a game with a rocket bow...so I'm not going to obsess over accuracy, but if I was going to focus on weapons being realistic any two-handed scythe type weapon would be out the door or converted into a decent polearm.  (Also, we'd get spears)

There are many unrealistic,ineffective, "cartoon" weapons in this game. You failed to understand as soon as you brought up being realistic.
You wouldn't call a katana a nodachi (which is why they're releasing the nodachi as its own weapon class next), and you wouldn't call a longsword a greatsword. It's that simple.
This is about video game culture, and this is a video game in case anyone forgot. They even recently very quickly scaled up the Mortier Heavy Blade, so I know it isn't difficult.

You also already have your spears, they just honestly look ungodly due to how Zaw parts attach themselves.
If you meant that you want a stance that focuses on stabbing, or spears that aren't Zaws, then I can agree.

As a side note, not sure why the thread was necro'd this early.
There's nothing else to say until the Melee rework actually releases.
So cheers until then.

[Salenstormwing]

Something something hand scythes vs. yadda yadda two-handed scythes. It's too early for more than that.

Let me know when I can melee someone with a lawn mower.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

On 2018-04-20 at 6:19 PM, GreyEnneract said:

I'm going to assume you're just flaming. Poorly.
Only the small grips create a "Scythe" in this game.
No other grips create what this game mistakenly calls "Scythes."
You literally call the other grips "polearm" and "staff".
Meaning they aren't             ?
I'll let you figure it out.

Until they give us a Kaszas in PvE, the best alternative IS the Dokrahm heavy blade.

Get past the label and have fun with it.

I get it...you want something with a wide, sweeping arc.

Just keep in Mind the farmer’s “REAPING SCYTHE” is an extraordinarily romanticized weapon, more Symbolic than functional. 

Good thing this is Warframe.  I applaud you carrying the torch on Scythes...keep fighting the good fight, but do it with respect.