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Maybe I'm Crazy? - A Nyx Revist


(PSN)thefallenloser
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Am... am I the only one who thinks Nyx needs a revisit?

Sure, Nyx is a good in play, but when you really step back an look at her from an objective standpoint, she really could use some improvement.

___

So yeah, hey Tenno. Welcome back to another one of these things if you've been following my revisit and rework threads for some of these Warframes. Today I'm doing Nyx because I'm really bored and have nothing better to do so... yay!

I think the problem with Nyx is that she has too much of the same. Nyx is supposed to be the... THE crowd control Warframe, and while she kinda' is, she's just... forgotten about over other options that players think would work better. Honestly, the last time I've heard someone ask for a Nyx is when raids were still a thing. Even so, it's just ChaosChaosChaos everywhere and no other types of play. While I get it, it's CC, she's the Mind Warframe, Chaos (and Absorb, with the Assimilate augment) really over-shines the rest of her kit, and it doesn't help that her kit is otherwise not very good.

So today, I'm gonna' look at all of her kit, and try to change it to make it more interesting for everyone to use, and a lot more viable. We'll start with the current state of her abilities, and then move on to the revisit part.


Where is Nyx Now?

Passive : Relinquish - Enemies effected by any of Nyx's abilities have a chance to give up their weapons, putting them into a permanent disarm state.

1st : Mind Control - Nyx takes over the mind of a single target, forcing them to fight only for her team temporarily. They are invincible to allied damage and instead it will be accumulated and dealt on them when the ability ends.

  • Augment Mod : Mind Freak - Everything under the effects of a Mind Control will deal 500% more damage.

2nd : Psychic Bolts - Nyx launches bolts of psychic energy that automatically seek out enemies and deal light damage to them, before doing area damage that can confuse enemies into attacking anything.

  • Augment Mod : Pacifying Bolts - Enemies hit with Psychic Bolts will be stunned for a short amount of time.

3rd : Chaos - Enemies within a long radius of Nyx will have their minds altered, making them all think that their allies are Nyx, attacking them.

  • Augment Mod : Chaos Sphere - Casting Chaos will create a bubble that shrinks over time. Any enemies that enter the bubble will have the effect of Chaos applied to them, inflicting them with 50% of the duration of the initial Chaos.

4th : Absorb - Nyx starts meditating, making her stationary but invincible. Nyx is surrounded in a sphere that stores any damage that would be dealt to her. The more damage Nyx absorbs, the more energy is drained. When released, Nyx will let out all damage dealt (as magnetic) within a short radius to enemies, also inflicting a knockdown.

  • Augment Mod : Assimilate - Nyx can now move freely, cast abilities, and use weapons while in Absorbing mode, but radius is decreased by half and allies cannot add to damage.

But these do not work in the way they sound. When practicing with them, you can really see that some of these really need a buff or change to make it more unique. Mind Control has the aggro use, but the enemy damage doesn't scale unless you're using the Augment, and even so, it's not worth it, as you can still kill 10 times faster. Psychic Bolts is just utterly useless in the midst of combat. The radiation procs aren't reliable enough and the damage is just horrid. Pacifying Bolts pretty much just extends the duration of the stun you get when you proc radiation, which is just... useless? You're going to kill them faster than the stun will last. Chaos is her go-to CC which really solidifies her position as the de-facto CC Frame, but is just kinda'... boring. If you're not using the Augment you're spamming it. If you are using the Augment, you're still spamming it to get the initial stun. And Chaos suffers from have such low range and a bad damage type attached to it.

Nyx as a whole just embodies how first generation Warframes can either succeed as their own and still be competition, or just fall flat, and start lagging behind as newer, more well-thought designs are added to Warframes. Nyx should not fit into that second category at all, as she is the MIND Warframe. Crowd-control should be at its greatest when it's directly effecting the mind. This is what Nyx could be like that.


Lose Yourself - The Nyx Revisit

(the game evolves faster than some can keep up)

(NEW) Passive : Dead Psyche

Nyx's psychic influence is the most powerful in the stars. Her effect on your mind is so drastic, it can make you black out for a short amount of time.

  • Nyx has a 10% chance to send enemies into a sleeping state for 3 seconds, opening them to finishers.
    • does not work on Mind Controlled enemies

1st : Mind Control

Nyx invades a single target's mind, making them fight for her cause. The target effected is hyped-up by Nyx, improving their effectiveness on the battlefield.

  • target fights for Nyx for 30 seconds (scales w/ duration)
  • target controlled does 500% increased damage (affected by power strength)
  • target has double movement speed (scales w/ strength)
  • target gains an armor bonus of a multiplicative 30%

(NEW) Augment - Mind Transfer

Nyx can now hold the ability key to direct her mind controlled target on which enemy to attack. When her mind controlled target attacks that enemy, they deal 300% more damage.

(NEW) 2nd : Psychic Bolts

Nyx creates a frontal psycho-shield. All weapon fire that hits it will fire back out of the shield in the form of a Psychic Bolt.

  • all weapon fire that hits will fire back a Psychic Bolt that deals 30% of the total damage from it in the form of radiation
    • Psychic Bolts have a 20% status chance
    • the more weapon fire that hits, the more Psychic Bolts = higher damage and status
  • charge for duration
    • tap, 15 seconds
    • 2 second charge, 20 seconds
    • 3 second charge, 30 seconds
  • Psychic Bolts do not fire directly back at the enemy who shot the shield, the will fire in the direction Nyx is facing
  • what isn't affected?
    • melee attacks can bypass the Psycho-Shield
    • attacks from behind can still hit Nyx
    • Nyx cannot shoot through the shield to gain additional Psychic Bolts
    • allies do not effect base Psychic Bolts

(NEW) Augment - Psychic Blasts

Shots absorbed by the Psycho-Shield will now let out a wave of radiation damage around Nyx, dealing damage will a 100% chance to proc blast status.

  • status chance raised to 30% for radiation
  • 3 second delay between each blast
  • blast radius is 7 meters

3rd : Chaos

Won't really change anything on this ability. Just add in something.

  • charge for additional duration, decreases range
    • tap, standard version, 25 seconds/meters
    • stage 2, 30 seconds, 20 meters
    • stage 3, 40 seconds, 15 meters

Though I think Chaos could have a much better Augment, could also make the spreading of Chaos much easier than it is with Chaos Sphere.

(NEW) Augment - Controlled Chaos

Chaos is no longer a radius around Nyx. Instead, it is a targeting ability and will be cast where Nyx is aiming. Enemies within a short radius of where Nyx was aiming will also be affected. Killing enemies under the influence of Chaos will spread it's effect to nearby enemies for the remaining duration.

  • radius of cast is 5 meters
  • spreading effect is 15 meters
  • both can be influenced with range mods
  • this form of Chaos is a single-handed action

4th : Absorb

Nyx calms the mind, and in doing so, makes her body take no damage, but Absorb it all and send it back in a deadly blast to her foes. Any survivors will go insane...

  • increased range to 15 meters (influenced by range)
  • changed damage to Radiation based
  • reduced energy drain to 3 per second
  • reduced additional drain to 3 per 1000 damage
  • change damage cap depending on strength
  • status chance of 50%
  • any survivors have a 10% chance to be Mind Controlle

Augment - Assimilate

Keep it, it's pretty well thought out.


Now as to why I made the changes I made...

Standard Mind Control was changed for the obvious reason that enemies don't deal enough damage to each other. They weren't meant to. They deal low damage because we have low health while their health is insane. I thought that letting them be able to deal a good amount of damage to themselves would have to be done like this. That takes away the augment (which totally isn't worth it). What I suggested what another way to further increase your Mind Slave's damage output. I thought letting Nyx have even more control over her Mind Controlled subject would be nice an appreciated.

Psychic Bolts is something that I felt needed to be completely overhauled. I felt that making it this way would not only open up more room for Nyx to have CC in every aspect, by also a more reliable way to proc Radiation. The Augment is something I felt more defensive players would like to have while also being able to effectively spread radiation procs.

My Chaos Augment change my feel a bit Equinox-y... but I felt that in the end it would be more reliable that Chaos Sphere while also giving a change in gameplay. I can see people disagreeing with me, but this was an expected point of contention and I'd like to see your suggestions too!

Absorb... jeez it just needed a buff already, lol.

___

So... that's all I have you guys. Tell me what you thought about what I have to say. Do you think Nyx is already fine or no? Do you think this revisit fixes up some of the problems?

Thanks for your time Tenno.

Edited by (PS4)ArtPrince17
Passive Clarification (5.4.2018)
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2 hours ago, Aeon94 said:

Oh boi , I love your ideas. 

She has good CC and survivability but her kit is very very old , an updated kit would be nice.

Thank you, thank you!

True, she really does need some updating. She feels too first gen.

55 minutes ago, (PS4)atpbx said:

I wouldnt change chaos or her 4.

Her two other abilites are completely useless however.

I didn't change Chaos at all, just the augment. And I buffed Absorb because it's a bit lacking. Why would you keep them the same?

And I also wouldn't go as far to say she has 'useless' abilities, they just severely under-perform in comparison to the rest of her kit.

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1 hour ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Her 4 needs a serious damage buff.

It's not really the damage in itself, but rather the form of damage coupled with how long you can maintain Absorb.

I attempted to fix that up by changing the damage type to something more versatile and effective against multiple factions while also effectively increasing how long you can maintain your Absorption state AND increasing the range with will all effectively increase Absorb's overall burst damage.

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You are not alone in thinking Nyx needs a good once over!

There's something that's always bothered me with Nyx that I didn't see you mention:  would Mind Control (1) actually have a chance to be affected by the passive?  that's one of the larger gripes (my own included) of her kit as it stands now.

My issues with your idea for psychic bolts.  Even thought it is minuscule, I do like the idea of Nyx's psychic bolts at the moment of having a slash proc as well as a for a little more versatility outside of just raw radiation damage.  And I also like the idea of having the ability be more proactive in harming a foe instead of passively waiting for the target to shoot me to reflect damage back.

Outside of the psychic bolts thing, Your ideas look really good.

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@Olianu

9 hours ago, Olianu said:

You are not alone in thinking Nyx needs a good once over!

There's something that's always bothered me with Nyx that I didn't see you mention:  would Mind Control (1) actually have a chance to be affected by the passive?  that's one of the larger gripes (my own included) of her kit as it stands now.

My issues with your idea for psychic bolts.  Even thought it is minuscule, I do like the idea of Nyx's psychic bolts at the moment of having a slash proc as well as a for a little more versatility outside of just raw radiation damage.  And I also like the idea of having the ability be more proactive in harming a foe instead of passively waiting for the target to shoot me to reflect damage back.

Outside of the psychic bolts thing, Your ideas look really good.

totally forgot to mention that this Nyx will not have enemies that are Mind Controlled effected by the passive. Thank you for pointing that out!

I 100% see where you're coming from on your thoughts on Psychic Bolts, as sometimes Nyx will need to be the first one to take action. If enemies aren't around to shoot you, you really won't get much of a use at all of Psychic Bolts. So, a little challenge for you. Could you give me a base as to what you'd like to see Psychic Bolts become and I can see what it can turn into from there? It'd be much appreciated.

Thank you for joining in Olianu.

___

@(PS4)Chris_Robet

9 hours ago, (PS4)Chris_Robet said:

I'd prefer the only change to her passive is to not affect mind control. Disarming enemies gives her alot of survivability.

That is true, but I feel like it treads a bit too close to Loki's Irradiating Disarm. I tried to give her something a bit different.

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1 hour ago, (PS4)ArtPrince17 said:

That is true, but I feel like it treads a bit too close to Loki's Irradiating Disarm. I tried to give her something a bit different.

I do understand that but the passive you proposed is incredibly weak. 10% chance is not alot nor is a 3 second (partial) stun. If it's opening them up to finishers being the big thing about it then Gara has a MUCH better passive for that, which activates without needing to use abilities and also activates fairly often.

 

Edit: I do like your rework though! Don't get me wrong, it's great! I'm just trying to offer some constructive criticism to help it!

Edited by (PS4)Chris_Robet
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6 minutes ago, (PS4)Chris_Robet said:

I do understand that but the passive you proposed is incredibly weak. 10% chance is not alot nor is a 3 second (partial) stun. If it's opening them up to finishers being the big thing about it then Gara has a MUCH better passive for that, which activates without needing to use abilities and also activates fairly often.

Edit: I do like your rework though! Don't get me wrong, it's great! I'm just trying to offer some constructive criticism to help it!

Oh it's fine. I just wasn't sure at all what the percentages on Relinquish were so I just said 10% If you know could you help me out here?

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10 minutes ago, (PS4)ArtPrince17 said:

Oh it's fine. I just wasn't sure at all what the percentages on Relinquish were so I just said 10% If you know could you help me out here?

The current relinquish chance seems to be about 20% (from what I gathered through testing when the passive first came out) which you have to understand currently a disarm is far more effective cc than sleep since you can jump up to avoid all damage from a disarmed enemy and any enemy to be hit by a decent damage AOE is going to be woken up and have full control (thus rendering the stun useless) plus ontop of that enemies are meant to fight eachother for Nyx and they can't do that of they're asleep. Thematically I can kinda see where you're coming from but from a gameplay perspective it just doesn't work in my eyes.

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2 hours ago, (PS4)ArtPrince17 said:

I 100% see where you're coming from on your thoughts on Psychic Bolts, as sometimes Nyx will need to be the first one to take action. If enemies aren't around to shoot you, you really won't get much of a use at all of Psychic Bolts. So, a little challenge for you. Could you give me a base as to what you'd like to see Psychic Bolts become and I can see what it can turn into from there? It'd be much appreciated.

You can take whichever parts of the idea you like.  It's totally up to you.

Up the damage from 200 at max rank to being 200 + 35% enemy's max health.  Duration increasing the number of bolts Nyx makes.  The bolts will aim for the enemies closest to you or to the center of the targeter, should the enemy(ies) die and there are unused psychic bolts, it they will seek out other enemies within a 10 meter radius (increased by range.)  Enemies affected by Chaos have a 100% chance of being hit with a slash proc (seriously, what's the use of confusing enemies that are already confused?)  Damage would be split between slash and radiation 50/50.

Edited by Olianu
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On 2018-05-03 at 8:55 AM, (PS4)ArtPrince17 said:

(NEW) Passive : Dead Psyche

You mean to apply this on any enemy that is affected by Nyx's ability correct? If so 10% is enough but 3s is too short, probably 6s minimum.

On 2018-05-03 at 8:55 AM, (PS4)ArtPrince17 said:

(NEW) Augment Mind Transfer

Idk this seems like a lot of attention to try to hold to the Mind Controlled enemy. Personally I just want to be able to turn my Mind Controlled enemies into a bomb that explodes dealing damage equal to it's current health. Make them kamikaze soldiers.

On 2018-05-03 at 8:55 AM, (PS4)ArtPrince17 said:

(NEW) 2nd : Psychic Bolts

Nyx creates a frontal psycho-shield. All weapon fire that hits it will fire back out of the shield in the form of a Psychic Bolt.

  • all weapon fire that hits will fire back a Psychic Bolt that deals 30% of the total damage from it in the form of radiation
    • Psychic Bolts have a 20% status chance
    • the more weapon fire that hits, the more Psychic Bolts = higher damage and status
  • charge for duration
    • tap, 15 seconds
    • 2 second charge, 20 seconds
    • 3 second charge, 30 seconds
  • Psychic Bolts do not fire directly back at the enemy who shot the shield, the will fire in the direction Nyx is facing

So long as this isn't a shield that actually blocks bullets but is a Psy-Bolt producing field I think that's cool. Probably OP though. Enemies shoot a lot. I'd like for the ability on cast to shoot it's initial bolts as it currently does. Rather for returning bolts I think it should basically operate as a battery ammo based turret. like how Archwing weapons or the cycron auto regen ammo over time except it doesn't have a refractory period so it's constantly recharging. This just means it cant return fire on every single shot. I'm also probably not going with that damage model, and I'm not convinced this ability would need a charge timer. Being able to send tons of bolts back also would mean almost guaranteed passive effect. I do like the return fire bolts, I'd prefer they were homing projectiles though.
The augment also isn't quite what I'd like to see either unfortunately, it just sounds like generic radial CC to me.

I'll pitch one here, how about Psychic antenna where bolts have a 30% chance of temporarily mind controlling an enemy to steal/disarm an enemy. So they go and run snag someone's gun before returning to the fight. Maybe they strap a grenade to the weapon and blow it up dealing some damage too. I think it'd be good. And hilarious to see. 

Ideas for her 3rd and 4th sound fine to me. Although screw the 4th having a damage cap, in my opinion. Enemies don't have a cap on the damage they deal, and her increasing drain is pretty heavy. Overall good ideas

 

On 2018-05-04 at 7:45 AM, (PS4)Chris_Robet said:

10% chance is not alot

10% of enemies hit by Chaos would be quite a bit already, I think. And sleeping enemies hit by revenge Psy-bolts from return fire I mean Heavy Gunners would constantly be sleeping. Although I suggest that should be changed a bit. 3s is too short though.

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@Stykera

On 2018-05-04 at 3:24 PM, Stykera said:

She needs some changes. Her passive, 1 & 2. Thats it. 

I disagree. Care to explain why you feel this way?


@Sasuda

On 2018-05-06 at 12:44 AM, Sasuda said:

You mean to apply this on any enemy that is affected by Nyx's ability correct? If so 10% is enough but 3s is too short, probably 6s minimum.

10% of enemies hit by Chaos would be quite a bit already, I think. And sleeping enemies hit by revenge Psy-bolts from return fire I mean Heavy Gunners would constantly be sleeping. Although I suggest that should be changed a bit. 3s is too short though.

I thought 10% was suitable considering how many enemies Nyx can already hit with her abilities. By the way, yes, this is enemies affected by Nyx's abilities. The reason I say three seconds is because I felt that it was already pretty substantial for a passive. What I can do is make enemies effected by multiple of Nyx's abilities have a higher chance and extended duration.

On 2018-05-06 at 12:44 AM, Sasuda said:

Idk this seems like a lot of attention to try to hold to the Mind Controlled enemy. Personally I just want to be able to turn my Mind Controlled enemies into a bomb that explodes dealing damage equal to it's current health. Make them kamikaze soldiers.

And it is. That is exactly what I intended when I made the augment, for you to build around and keep a constant focus on your Mind Controlled subjects. However, your idea sounds super cool! How about this, we can mix the augment in. It'll go something like this...

  • Mind Breaker
    • Mind Controlled enemies can now be sent after a specific target, and will attack it for seconds before exploding, dealing 30% of the damage it took in meters with a guaranteed blast proc.
On 2018-05-06 at 12:44 AM, Sasuda said:

So long as this isn't a shield that actually blocks bullets but is a Psy-Bolt producing field I think that's cool. Probably OP though.

I totally forgot to talk about the damage reduction. It'll be at 80% non-modifiable, considering that Nyx is quite the squishy Frame. I think this is pretty reasonable considering that Nyx still won't be able to just soak up all the bullets considering her low health and armor.

On 2018-05-06 at 12:44 AM, Sasuda said:

The augment also isn't quite what I'd like to see either unfortunately, it just sounds like generic radial CC to me.

I want to take some of what you made in your proposed Augment and some of my proposed Augment to mix it up to something different. It'll go like this...

  • Illusion Wave
    • Nyx will now store up incoming weapon fire, channeling them into a huge wave of radiation. Releasing this wave will send it at any nearby enemies, afflicting them with radiation status and raising their threat levels.
      • Nyx will not deal damage with the wave
      • the longer Nyx holds the wave, the longer the duration of the effect
      • waves will home in on the closest 5 enemies
On 2018-05-06 at 12:44 AM, Sasuda said:

Ideas for her 3rd and 4th sound fine to me. Although screw the 4th having a damage cap, in my opinion. Enemies don't have a cap on the damage they deal, and her increasing drain is pretty heavy. Overall good ideas

I was thinking about that, so yeah, screw the damage cap!

And thank you for joining in Sasuda!

(sorry for the delayed response, Chromebooks have been freezing up lately since the most recent Google update)

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Switch ability 1 with ability 2 (for energy purposes)

Have knocked effect from ability 4 cause enemies too retarget each other after ability 3 casted (currently if your targeted by a enemy, even after knockdown while enemies are effected by ability 3, they still have you targeted)

Edited by Grimmstyler
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Neat ideas, I'm pretty okay with a rework falling anywhere between mine and yours really.

7 hours ago, (PS4)ArtPrince17 said:

It'll be at 80% non-modifiable

80% is actually huge like 50% would already be plenty, I think. Even if it's only blocking from 1 direction. Nyx is squishy and having a way to round corners without being slaughtered would be a nice addition but she does have a good amount of options for avoiding and protecting herself with her abilities, she just could use that little bit to keep her from dirty one shots.

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5 hours ago, Sasuda said:

Neat ideas, I'm pretty okay with a rework falling anywhere between mine and yours really.

80% is actually huge like 50% would already be plenty, I think. Even if it's only blocking from 1 direction. Nyx is squishy and having a way to round corners without being slaughtered would be a nice addition but she does have a good amount of options for avoiding and protecting herself with her abilities, she just could use that little bit to keep her from dirty one shots.

I thought this is exactly. Now that you're saying it, makes much more sense.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I am also in for a rework of Nyx. I like her but I rarely play as she has to few uses in Low to mid level content.

Here are some ideas for her rework, maybe you can take some inspiration from this :

 

Also  my suggestion on her : 

I don't like her passive as it seems to be a hindrance to her 3rd skill, maybe her 1st too, I actually didn't pay much attention if this is affected.

Am 3.5.2018 um 16:55 schrieb (PS4)ArtPrince17:

(NEW) Passive : Dead Psyche

Nyx's psychic influence is the most powerful in the stars. Her effect on your mind is so drastic, it can make you black out for a short amount of time.

  • Nyx has a 10% chance to send enemies into a sleeping state for 3 seconds, opening them to finishers.
    • does not work on Mind Controlled enemies

This is a nice idea, but i guess 3 seconds is not enough, as you would only be able to get 1 or 2 enemies to kill in this time. 

What I always missed on her, is an Ability to be seen as one of the enemies by the enemies. She would not be invisible, but she would count as one of them. For me this would perfectly fit her theme as Mind-Controller. This could replace Psychic Bolts or Absorb as both do not really fit her Theme (Absorb more than the Bolts). I would make it an Aura, which costs for every Enemie inside its Range (which should be 25m at least). Technically it could be handeld as invisibility without making her invisible. Shouldn't work against drones or cameras, as they don't have a mind (Maybe an Augment for this ?), if this is dooable.

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Zitat

I HAVE A NYX PARTIAL REWORK IDEA. PLEASE READ IT AND CRITIQUE IT

Why : there is 2 (or one) way to play nyx : chaos and terminator. I want to have another way to play her, which is more of a support role without overlapping with other support. the psychic bolt change is to increase her effectiveness.

What :

Changes to mind control : - augment is combined in the base ability (250% innate damage) - MC can be charged to raise damage up to 500% (cost is proportional). affected by STR - new augment : "Psychic Propagation". all damage dealt to to the MC'd target is stored and multiplied by 5 (target done by tennos is ignored). when the MC is released (on death or by Nyx), enemies in a 20m radius with vision on the target will be dealt the damage (damage is not split).

example : mc target is dealt 500 dmg by 2 enemies in a 20m radius with a line of sight on the mc target. they will be take 2500 dmg each (2x2500, not 2500/2).


Changes to Psychic bolts : -replaced by Psychic aiming -togglable ability. Adds innate scourge effect (helps getting headshots, like when you throw the scourge). costs 10 energy per headshot. Affects all enemies in a 20m radius, only for Nyx (allies do not get the effect) -new agument : Mind Over Matter. When Nyx suffers a status effect, it's duration is limited to 2 seconds. costs 20 energy/status effect. Allies within range will also take reduced status effects, costs 20 energy/status to Nyx.

from the Warframe wiki

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I think part of Nyx's problem is that her biggest "thing" is literally a rad proc. Chaning radiation effects would also go a long way to helping Nyx stand out.

 

I do wonder about pyschic bolts though. It's always seemed a wee bit... Out of place, on nyx. Maybe some interplay between it and her other abilities could help?

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Another idea for her passive came to my mind. If she can control minds maybe she can also read them .

Passive Mind Reading : As Nyx can read the minds of her enemies, she is able to predict their movements. 

  • 5-10% Evasion
  • or because it is easier to concentrate on few minds rather than many 50% Evasion -5% per Enemy in 20-30m Radius (can go either to 0% or stay at a minimun 5/10%)
  • or to make it even more complex, it could also depend on type of attack (melee or ranged, as it is easier to dodge a sword then a bullet)
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