[Update 22.2.0] Saryn Revisted 2.0 Feedback MEGATHREAD

[S0V3REiGN]

So spores don't spread at the same alarming speed as before, you sort of have to go chase enemies and try to spread them. The gas electric ignis seems to ramp up the damage of the spores by a lot when shooting enemies, I try other weapons and see what else works good. Miasma seems overall stronger.

Edited May 18, 2018 by S0V3REiGN

[OhDeerG]

You asked for feedback. Here's feedback.

Spores: Why. I could understand a range cap, I could understand a limit on casts, I could understand a cast timer, or ability duration. But instead, you turned spores into paint thinner so that solo players would stop whinging about having to use CP or high corrosive proc weapons. What a fantastic change. Viral was useful in both team and solo settings, and the propagation wasn't hamstrung by requiring a second ability to actually work.

Molt: Great, an ability that meant nothing, still means nothing, only if you accidentally activate it you stumble into another dimension. Or off a cliff. Or into that lake. Seriously, Saryn is a slow tank, and we all accepted that, she just didn't keep up with the times.

Toxin Lash: Cool, you've forced me to use this ability to gain a minor damage buff and make my other ability actually work. This ability could have been reworked into something usable, but instead we just had a child harness put on and told what to do.

Miasma: The fart cloud has become an actual fart cloud. Good, great even. No wait, this ability is just an expensive waste of time, and a panic button at best. Also that new sound clip. I thought we agreed that warframes were pretty silent and stoic. Of course we have our exceptions but they have reasons to be as they are. It just sounds like she's in pain, and that's really annoying.

 

Overall thoughts on this whole thing:

You took something that was good, but outdated and misused and you, with best intentions I'm sure, turned it into endgame pandering, half broken, mindless mush. It's like strapping your baby into a car seat and putting their favourite show on the DvD player, then doing 200 down the nearest freeway into oncoming traffic. They won't know what's going on, but will be safe and entertained, while they are seconds from disaster at any given point, entirely at the mercy of the driver.

 

TL;DR -  Saryn is a baby frame, for baby framers, and the division between "This isn't great" and "No, it's perfect" grows with every post.

[Cibyllae]

4 minutes ago, PetTinks said:

You asked for feedback. Here's feedback.

Spores: Why. I could understand a range cap, I could understand a limit on casts, I could understand a cast timer, or ability duration. But instead, you turned spores into paint thinner so that solo players would stop whinging about having to use CP or high corrosive proc weapons. What a fantastic change. Viral was useful in both team and solo settings, and the propagation wasn't hamstrung by requiring a second ability to actually work.

Molt: Great, an ability that meant nothing, still means nothing, only if you accidentally activate it you stumble into another dimension. Or off a cliff. Or into that lake. Seriously, Saryn is a slow tank, and we all accepted that, she just didn't keep up with the times.

Toxin Lash: Cool, you've forced me to use this ability to gain a minor damage buff and make my other ability actually work. This ability could have been reworked into something usable, but instead we just had a child harness put on and told what to do.

Miasma: The fart cloud has become an actual fart cloud. Good, great even. No wait, this ability is just an expensive waste of time, and a panic button at best. Also that new sound clip. I thought we agreed that warframes were pretty silent and stoic. Of course we have our exceptions but they have reasons to be as they are. It just sounds like she's in pain, and that's really annoying.

 

Overall thoughts on this whole thing:

You took something that was good, but outdated and misused and you, with best intentions I'm sure, turned it into endgame pandering, half broken, mindless mush. It's like strapping your baby into a car seat and putting their favourite show on the DvD player, then doing 200 down the nearest freeway into oncoming traffic. They won't know what's going on, but will be safe and entertained, while they are seconds from disaster at any given point, entirely at the mercy of the driver.

 

TL;DR -  Saryn is a baby frame, for baby framers, and the division between "This isn't great" and "No, it's perfect" grows with every post.

you should post your builds for pre ST-PO and ST-PO

Edited May 18, 2018 by Cibyllae

[Patzer]

I have had zero issues with Spores spreading, they seems to work exactly as it says "on the tin". Here is test scenario anyone can try themselves.

[OhDeerG]

5 minutes ago, Cibyllae said:

you should post your builds for pre ST-PO and ST-PO

My "Build" was a little something I call "Flavour of the day", with Saryn or otherwise. For you this is probably what you call a "Casual" build.

I never fell into the trap of Min-Maxing because I play the game to have fun, not see how fast I can melt brain cells.

[Cibyllae]

2 minutes ago, PetTinks said:

My "Build" was a little something I call "Flavour of the day", with Saryn or otherwise. For you this is probably what you call a "Casual" build.

I never fell into the trap of Min-Maxing because I play the game to have fun, not see how fast I can melt brain cells.

I just asked to see your builds mate, if you don't want to post them you don't have to.

Edited May 18, 2018 by Cibyllae

[OhDeerG]

Just now, Cibyllae said:

I just asked to see your builds mate, if you don't want to you don't have to.

Like I said, it pretty much changed daily, based on how I felt. If you want to see my build, go look at the warframe mod page.

[msami]

Saryn is amazing in her current state. Now I actually utilize all of her abilities, instead of spamming her spores on her molt as before. 

I've been playing here for several hours and really enjoying her

She scales pretty well and her survivability is better.

I think you did a really good job on this one.

Thank you and keep it up 😃

[catastrophy]

2 hours ago, Patzer said:

I urge you to try something like this for starmap. Spreads just fine in my opinion.

How about balancing it around mods that can be collected by regular play?

[Patzer]

Just now, catastrophy said:

How about balancing it around mods that can be collected by regular play?

Like which ones? Hunter Adrenaline is by no means mandatory nor is Fleeting Expertise. Primed Continuity can be swapped to normal one.

[HidesHisFace]

Ok, I did some more testing on Saryn new spores.

It works reasonably well, but I still have this feeling of wonkiness to it, and not because of a bug.

I figured what was the problem on my end - the fact that only a single spore spreads normally and the fact that spores really love to appear on hard to reach body parts is the issue. Sometimes the game doesn't register the hit when I think I hit the spore, hence it doesn't spread. It also explains why toxic lash is so ludicrously effective, because you no longer have to hit the spore itself. It can also leave an enemy "depleted" from spores with infected enemies around - this adds to the feeling of wonkiness - chaos in combat and this enemy may appear unaffected.

 

In any case - the problem with synergy with the rest of your team still is a thing that needs to be addressed - Saryn's effectiveness drops drastically if your team mates are any good. Corrosive debuff won't matter and won't help your team, if they themselves stop the spores from spreading, and therefore applying the debuff on larger groups of enemies - in this state, saryn's powers are no alternative to 4x corrosive projection, sadly and worse of all... they become redundant.

Another problem I see with spores spreading... your sentinel can actually cause you problems now, which is annoying.

 

Lack of ability to recast can be the issue if you have two+ groups of enemies coming from different directions. The single cast feels forced, and as many mentioned before, the exploding of spores binded under the same key more often than not leads to killing your spores by accident. Instead of using spores multiple times, you now have to do it only once - and it is annoying and hard to suddenly change the way you use the ability by 180 degrees. Why not allow her to "store" three casts or so - and after that every new cast would destroy the spores of the oldest cast? It would be far more intuitive in my opinion, and far more versatile.

 

As for her other abilities:

Molt is about as useful as before... The only good change is that it no longer gets insta-killed in higher level missions. Speed buff is nice, but feels a bit out of place. Sadly, molt augment is still pretty much a must.

Toxic lash - I actually use it now, but mostly to compensate for the fact that only a single spore spreads. Lack of energy regen on it hurts. The fact that it affects ranged weapons now is a fantastic change.

Miasma - it is stronger than before, by far thanks to built in health debuff due to viral proc. It makes it ridiculously efficient against mid to high level enemies. Too efficient if you ask me.

[Naneel]

After further testing : 

• in ESO her spores spread good, just as before and her damage build-up is alot faster. I only reached 1000 damage per tick, but we were 2 saryns and my spores often ended.
• Miasma could use a bit more damage, but is otherwise really nice.

So it seems you need a lot of reach to spread her spores reliable or have a lot of enemies, which is okay as she was designed to fight infested, which mostly come in hordes.

[catastrophy]

5 minutes ago, Patzer said:

Like which ones? Hunter Adrenaline is by no means mandatory nor is Fleeting Expertise. Primed Continuity can be swapped to normal one.

Primed and corrupted can be really hard to get. Max range I can realize is 190% and that is with that 15% buff on range on cunning drift.

[catastrophy]

Is it just me or do the spores like to appear on lower body parts now? Especially feet and legs?

[Patzer]

1 minute ago, catastrophy said:

Primed and corrupted can be really hard to get. Max range I can realize is 190% and that is with that 15% buff on range on cunning drift.

Overextended is kind of the only really important mod. Seems to be around 20-30p currently.

 

[OhDeerG]

The biggest issue I'm seeing with a lot of the posts in this thread is that they all seem to go along the lines of "These changes are good because my endgame build is now really good", I'm seeing no consideration for those who are new to the frame/game or those in mid-game.

The fact that her effectiveness is directly related to being able to strip armour now, means that she's only really effective/worth using at high levels, which can be really off-putting for more casual players.

Not to mention there are more viable options for team play. Solo players making decisions on the worth of changes in a heavily co-op focused game is both redundant and harmful.

[(PSN)MaSiuChu]

Maybe move the Spores detonating function to the fourth ability, Give us a manual spreading function by recasting the first ability to another enemy.

[OhDeerG]

5 minutes ago, Patzer said:

Overextended is kind of the only really important mod. Seems to be around 20-30p currently.

 

Insinuating that should someone be unable to obtain a mod on their own they should just fork out some plat. I can see those inexperienced in warframe trading getting gouged over this.

[Whachamalica]

18 hours ago, [DE]Danielle said:

Hey! When you say "locked" what do you mean? As in the ability is no longer able to be cast? Thanks for the details! 

 

Yup. Skill 1 is stuck at the detonation stage, but there are no spores to detonate, so the skill gets stuck and become unable to cast. Problem can be rectified by forcing a revive after suiciding your warframe, but still, it affects the gameplay in a negative way if the player is not careful.

-edit-

Been trying to figure out what might be going on, screengrab was taken on a fissure survival map. Notice bottom right hand corner.
Skill 1 was cast, target died, skill became frozen and unable to be used.

i.e Could not detonate a non-existing spore, and could not cast another spore until the previous non-existing spore is gone. or until player forces a revive.

as for the problem in Onslaught, the -going through the portal with a spore still on enemy causing the skill to lock up- issue seemed to not happen anymore. but theres still some random instances when all 4 skills and transferrence lock up and become unable to cast.< Not sure how this interaction occured. >

 

Hope these information helps somehow.

Edited May 18, 2018 by Whachamalica
adding more information to the post without adding more replies before getting a response

[Patzer]

Just now, PetTinks said:

Insinuating that should someone be unable to obtain a mod on their own they should just fork out some plat. I can see those inexperienced in warframe trading getting gouged over this.

Or you can just run with 30m spread range instead 44m. It is not 100% mandatory either.

[OhDeerG]

2 minutes ago, Patzer said:

Or you can just run with 30m spread range instead 44m. It is not 100% mandatory either.

The idea of any mod being any % "mandatory" is kind of the issue in general here. With molt, the augment is pretty mandatory for it to be good, range mods are mandatory, efficiency is mandatory, etc. etc. etc.

This is an issue that really needs to be fixed across the board with attitudes in this community.

[HidesHisFace]

15 minutes ago, catastrophy said:

Is it just me or do the spores like to appear on lower body parts now? Especially feet and legs?

They always had this tendency - but before it was easier to get multiple spores on a single enemy, so it was harder to notice.

[BL4CKN0ISE]

She just feels so inconsistent, so I can't feel confident playing her right now. You changed a lot about how spores work, but one thing I really don't understand is why casting feels so clunky. I don't know what I'm supposed to do with her now. She strangely seems terrible at low level. Of course anything can kill enemies at low levels, so it's not a big deal. It just makes no sense to use spores if they insta-kill everything and then you're spamming more than before. At least the old spamming didn't feel as bad because it was much easier to cast spores and they spread like an actual infection. You couldn't "uncast" either. Why is that even a thing now? Casting while spores are active should just cast spores at the current damage multiplier. Why would I ever want to destroy my spores when they do a good job of that on their own? 

At high level there is some potential, but I still don't understand why she scales in such a ridiculous way. I can solo Elite Onslaught easier than I can solo the low level one. It's just this weird "find the spore!" game, and the spores need to survive long enough for me to do that.

Saryn was always a unique AoE frame, but now she just feels odd and not in a good way. It's like you want us to fail while using her. It's so strange. You want us chasing around spores so they don't become useless. I don't even know how, but I've had a single infected enemy 300 meters away during a survival. I should've just recast Spores, but it was so weird and I wanted to keep the damage, so I chased him down. It's such a stupid way to play this game. I get anxiety playing Saryn now. 

[NezuHimeSama]

18 minutes ago, PetTinks said:

The idea of any mod being any % "mandatory" is kind of the issue in general here. With molt, the augment is pretty mandatory for it to be good, range mods are mandatory, efficiency is mandatory, etc. etc. etc.

This is an issue that really needs to be fixed across the board with attitudes in this community.

So, let me get this straight...

You want, in a progressionary game, to be able to run with no progressive builds, and achive the same as someone who's invested time and energy into progress?

Because if that's the case, you should probably play something that doesn't have stats or progression. The best builds should always require the hard to get mods for optimal play. Otherwise, what's the motivation to get those mods?

Also, corrupted mods aren't hard to get. They can take time, but that's part of your beginner progression. Saver those hunts. They're straightforward, easy, and have guaranteed rewards for a 4p squad.

[OhDeerG]

5 minutes ago, NezuHimeSama said:

So, let me get this straight...

You want, in a progressionary game, to be able to run with no progressive builds, and achive the same as someone who's invested time and energy into progress?

Because if that's the case, you should probably play something that doesn't have stats or progression. The best builds should always require the hard to get mods for optimal play. Otherwise, what's the motivation to get those mods?

Also, corrupted mods aren't hard to get. They can take time, but that's part of your beginner progression. Saver those hunts. They're straightforward, easy, and have guaranteed rewards for a 4p squad.

I think you missed the point. The key word there was "Mandatory", which seems to be something 'endgame' obsessed players seem to fight and die for. The idea that any mod be mandatory for a warframe to be good completely obliterates the free flowing and open gameplay that warframe sets up. "Look at all these options and choices you can make, but also here's these five things you MUST have otherwise you shouldn't even use this frame".

It's counter-intuitive and limiting, and THAT'S the issue. 

 

Edit: I also don't mean to nitpick, but not everyone has three friends to run with, or even wants to play in a squad, which can be incredibly frustrating when farming corrupted mods. Even helping out my newer friends hunt for corrupted mods is a pain because of the random nature of the missions, in both needing the numbers, the keys, and then the RNG behind what mod it actually gives you.

Edited May 18, 2018 by PetTinks
Nitpicking