[Update 22.2.0] Saryn Revisted 2.0 Feedback MEGATHREAD

[Cibyllae]

31 minutes ago, VoidFlux said:

Some maps spread Very well, others not so much. try playing Mot, some of the doors and obstetrical block spores.  other maps spores spread like wildfire. problem is that some tiles sets are just a nightmare to keep spore up others it works very well. normally the more open maps have less problems, the maps with more close quarters are more difficult. it doesn't seems like every object will stop it, but a good number will.

its still incorrect to say that the issue is a "LoS" requirement. We don't know what the issue is, there is inconsistency between players that's all we can say.

Edited May 18, 2018 by Cibyllae

[DarkRuler2500]

Multiple Saryn's are blocking each other out.
An enemy spored by one Saryn, cannot be spored by another.
Hence this causes the enemies to be cured accidentally because the spread system doesn't work anymore.

Since you've cared about cooperative instead of competitive gameplay, i doubt that is intended, DE!

[Cibyllae]

2 minutes ago, DarkRuler2500 said:

Multiple Saryn's are blocking each other out.
An enemy spored by one Saryn, cannot be spored by another.
Hence this causes the enemies to be cured accidentally because the spread system doesn't work anymore.

Since you've cared about cooperative instead of competitive gameplay, i doubt that is intended, DE!

This was an issue before ST-PO

[SyBuhr]

A Quality of life change : Allow a spore'd enemy to remain spore'd when becoming corrupted during void missions, otherwise spore becomes completely useless to use in void missions, either from nullifiers (which are a given, sure), or from the void portals eating up your spores.

Also, Spore range at 87 meters, and it doesn't seem to spread "like wild-fire". Are we 100-and-10-percent sure there isn't an issue with that?

[Cibyllae]

2 minutes ago, SyBuhr said:

Also, Spore range at 87 meters, and it doesn't seem to spread "like wild-fire". Are we 100-and-10-percent sure there isn't an issue with that?

You're looking at cast range not spread range

EDIT: Also, spread range is halved when enemies die. This was apart of Pre-ST-PO

Edited May 18, 2018 by Cibyllae

[SyBuhr]

Just now, Cibyllae said:

You're looking at cast range not spread range

 

You're right. But even at 23.2 meters, it doesn't spread to targets behind me, if there is one right in front as well...

 

Also, 23.2 meters, with stretch? That's NUTTY.

And by that, I mean that sucks. pretty badly. It's not cutting it for Survival, even 10 minutes in, and I can tell that.

[Cibyllae]

3 minutes ago, SyBuhr said:

Also, 23.2 meters, with stretch? That's NUTTY.

Half that, often times that's the actual spread radius as spores spread more often from enemies dying than the actual popping of spores. Your range radius of spores on enemies who die is 11.6.

EDIT: It's also the spread radius* so its not that bad. The full diameter of a popped spore with stretch is 46.4 meters.

Edited May 18, 2018 by Cibyllae

[VoidFlux]

7 minutes ago, Cibyllae said:

its still incorrect to say that the issue is a "LoS" requirement. We don't know what the issue is, there is inconsistency between players that's all we can say.

you might be right that the issue isnt PURE LOS problem, its almost like the new Melee fix of not going through walls is coming in to play. Also from experience, saying something just doesn't work right makes it ALOT harder to troubleshoot, if I say it is a LOS issue, they at least have a place to start looking. Since the Issue seems to be that the LOS system is randomly engaging when it shouldn't be  it could still be considered a LOS issue but not to the extent of LOS is fully enabled. All i know is that there has been times were it doesnt spread to a target standing on the other side of a divide, but spreads to an enemy on a stair case.  

Edited May 18, 2018 by VoidFlux

[SyBuhr]

Just now, Cibyllae said:

Half that, often times that's the actual spread radius as spores spread more often from enemies than the actual popping of spores. You range of spores on enemies who die is actually 11.6.

W-O-W.

I didn't even read it, but you're right. It says radius, but they really meant diameter.

[dan.io.wal]

I'm having a couple frustrations with the new Saryn.

Here are some positives:

1. Damage is good. The corrosive on spores is a really good addition, gives her some additional armor stripping, gives her more power overall. Makes Corrosive projection not a must have so I can slide in Energy Siphon instead.

2. Toxic Lash changes are fantastic. Absolutely devastating on some weapons I tested.

3. The damage type switch from viral to corrosive, and corrosive to viral respectively, was smart.

4. Armor increase. This is just fantastic overall. Allows for more potent melee gameplay.

That being said... I'm having a couple negatives as well.

1. Give the spores duration again. I went on Hydron, cast spores once, and the "Enemies Infected" meter got stuck at 7. It went from 80 something to 7.Like even after the message telling us the wave was over, it was still up, and I couldn't cast spores anymore. This was after wave six I believe. To put this much emphasis on not allowing us to use spores in a certain way and then to not be able to use it at all is rather discouraging.  Damage is good but having to press it again feels clunky. That's a good word for it. It feels extremely forced. Saryn before felt rather effortless, and not in a bad way. You built up a pattern with her, and as long as you used your weaponry correctly, your chance of dying was low. 

(Ignore them talking about how mag, don't touch her, she's perfect the way she is and doesn't need any more work)

2. Let us place spores on our Molt again. It wasn't that big of a deal. I found myself going back to place spores by the defense spot like I usually do, so I can run around the map and take care of business. 

But yeah that's after just 10 waves on hydron. That's all I played with her today. Needless to say I miss the now old saryn. I see the potential of the new saryn but it just feels clunky to me. I don't know about anyone else but it feels very forced, not to sound redundant but that's the best term for it honestly. 

Edited May 18, 2018 by dan.io.wal
Realized one of my complaints sounded bratty.

[Cibyllae]

9 minutes ago, VoidFlux said:

you might be right that the issue isnt PURE LOS problem, its almost like the new Melee fix of not going through walls is coming in to play. Also from experience, saying something just doesn't work right makes it ALOT harder to troubleshoot, if I say it is a LOS issue, they at least have a place to start looking. Since the Issue seems to be that the LOS system is randomly engaging when it shouldn't be  it could still be considered a LOS issue but not to the extent of LOS is fully enabled. All i know is that there has been times were it doesnt spread to a target standing on the other side of a divide, but spreads to an enemy on a stair case.  

I get that you're trying to help. I just don't think going 100% in on the idea that the issues, which the issues can only be established as inconsistency between players so far so the idea that there are actual issues needs to be resolved first, I just don't think going 100% in on the idea that there is an LoS problem with her spores and acting as if that is a true statement helps. I think its spreading misinformation which then in turn muddies the issue and makes it more difficult to get at the root of the problem.  The melee update hasn't even dropped yet, so unless I missed patch notes, I don't see why that code would be in the live version of the game and affecting it in some way.

Edited May 18, 2018 by Cibyllae

[dkt0404]

The glitch where her 1st ability gets stuck on something that dies is still present.

Infested died to a pit from Vaubauns tripwire and my Saryn's spores were stuck active.

[dan.io.wal]

Just now, dkt0404 said:

The glitch where her 1st ability gets stuck on something that dies is still present.

Infested died to a pit from Vaubauns tripwire and my Saryn's spores were stuck active.

We had a khora in the group using Strangledome, I was probably experiencing the same problem as you then. 

[Liquidpaperx]

I've had some playtime with Saryn, and I really love her changes.  Toxic lash on guns is sweet, and the rang increase on miasma is excellent. 

Two things - the spores bug is still present, so fixing that would be cool.  Also, could you look at increasing the spore spread range a bit? My range is at 190% and sometimes I feel like my spores didn't spread to someone they should have. 

[UncaIroh]

Spores:

"infinite scaling and damage" - nope.

I can't maintain my spore counter for two reasons.

1. Enemies die too fast especially since I shoot them to spread the spores.

2. I accidentally press 1 and detonate the spores. <- highly annoying.

Please fix this so we can manually spread spores around for longer than currently possible. At some point there the spores will hit a wall and reset because they kill too fast.

Suggestion: tapping 1 allows you to keep spreading spores, holding it detonates them, esc or some other key can cancel the held detonation. Increase the base propagation range might also help.

It's also counter intuitive that I actually have to SLOW DOWN killing to spread my spores more. Please allow the recast to manually spread spores more.

Molt: Cool, it just got better. I have no issues with not being able to cast spores on it. Question though - how does molt's damage work now?

Toxic Lash - doesn't seem to be spreading the spores? Also if spore becomes recastable again, bring back the 2 energy restore for every one 

Miasma - it me or did the cast/stun get slower? This was an fast stun ability before.

 

 

 

[SyBuhr]

2 minutes ago, UncaIroh said:

Spores:

"infinite scaling and damage" - nope.

I can't maintain my spore counter for two reasons.

1. Enemies die too fast especially since I shoot them to spread the spores.

2. I accidentally press 1 and detonate the spores. <- highly annoying.

Please fix this so we can manually spread spores around for longer than currently possible. At some point there the spores will hit a wall and reset because they kill too fast.

Suggestion: tapping 1 allows you to keep spreading spores, holding it detonates them, esc or some other key can cancel the held detonation. Increase the base propagation range might also help.

It's also counter intuitive that I actually have to SLOW DOWN killing to spread my spores more. Please allow the recast to manually spread spores more.

Molt: Cool, it just got better. I have no issues with not being able to cast spores on it. Question though - how does molt's damage work now?

Toxic Lash - doesn't seem to be spreading the spores? Also if spore becomes recastable again, bring back the 2 energy restore for every one 

Miasma - it me or did the cast/stun get slower? This was an fast stun ability before.

 

 

 

I really like the idea of scaling damage corrosive to compensate for the lost scaling damage of viral (due to how it worked, anyways).

I agree, with your points. Maintaining your 1st ability shouldn't be this difficult, but I don't think players should have an infinite number of spores out, because then it's essentially a nidus with corrosive damage. I think at most, maybe two sets of spores out, that way you can cover a bit more area.  Toxic lash works "as intended" for me. 

I feel like, somehow the over-all range for spores spreading was nerfed somehow. I recall spores being able to go room wide, and yet I am struggling to keep them alive at all, even with enemies up.

Also, just tested spores with khora.

 

Don't.

 

[VoidFlux]

5 minutes ago, Cibyllae said:

I get that you're trying to help. I just don't think going 100% in on the idea that the issues, which the issues can only be established as inconsistency between players so far so the idea that there are actual issues needs to be resolved first, I just don't think going 100% in on the idea that there is an LoS problem with her spores and acting as if that is a true statement helps. I think its spreading misinformation which then in turn muddies the issue and makes it more difficult to get at the root of the problem.  The melee update hasn't even dropped yet, so unless I missed patch notes, I don't see why that code would be in the live version of the game and affecting it in some way.

 

a small fix for melee release today not melee 3.0 .  in the patch notes first line in the changes section.  Also i understand muddling the waters and the multi saryn problem, most of the testing i did was solo as its easier to see what is really happening with spread dynamics. Also gave me a chance to figure out the flow with the rework and how to use her with out making people mad because i'm messing around.  In solo, it seemed a lot like LOS was kicking in, unless there is something not talked about at all  that was added in the patch to make her spread only have a 70% change of spreading on death/toxic lash. without looking at the source of the game and understand how each node of the code interacts its hard to say exactly what the problem is for sure, but look at this from a logical perspective. LOS code/element was added, rework show signs that would appear to be related to LOS to a degree.  I've played Saryn before rework and normally used very few casts of spores to keep it going, now its a fight to keep spores going on close quarter maps where before it was spreading like wild fire. in maps that allow enemys to walk in chains it still moves fast between them, but when they start to hide around corners it just doesn't spread like it use to. (could also be selected tile sets that are causing issues, but with out me mapping each tile out and spread possibilities its hard to say.) 

 

[SyBuhr]

15 minutes ago, VoidFlux said:

 

a small fix for melee release today not melee 3.0 .  in the patch notes first line in the changes section.  Also i understand muddling the waters and the multi saryn problem, most of the testing i did was solo as its easier to see what is really happening with spread dynamics. Also gave me a chance to figure out the flow with the rework and how to use her with out making people mad because i'm messing around.  In solo, it seemed a lot like LOS was kicking in, unless there is something not talked about at all  that was added in the patch to make her spread only have a 70% change of spreading on death/toxic lash. without looking at the source of the game and understand how each node of the code interacts its hard to say exactly what the problem is for sure, but look at this from a logical perspective. LOS code/element was added, rework show signs that would appear to be related to LOS to a degree.  I've played Saryn before rework and normally used very few casts of spores to keep it going, now its a fight to keep spores going on close quarter maps where before it was spreading like wild fire. in maps that allow enemys to walk in chains it still moves fast between them, but when they start to hide around corners it just doesn't spread like it use to. (could also be selected tile sets that are causing issues, but with out me mapping each tile out and spread possibilities its hard to say.) 

 

Yeah, between the spread-issues, the issue with it not letting you recast despite all spores being eliminated (tested on taveuni, could also be an issue with the respawning turrets, as I did see tick-damage crop up, but not the counter itself), saryn right now is a veritable mess.

I think I'm just going to stay away from her. If she doesn't get better or fixed up soon (relating to bugs/glitches), then I don't see a reason to invest my time in her anymore to even attempt to try out this new "rework".

[Cibyllae]

51 minutes ago, VoidFlux said:

 

a small fix for melee release today not melee 3.0 .  in the patch notes first line in the changes section.  Also i understand muddling the waters and the multi saryn problem, most of the testing i did was solo as its easier to see what is really happening with spread dynamics. Also gave me a chance to figure out the flow with the rework and how to use her with out making people mad because i'm messing around.  In solo, it seemed a lot like LOS was kicking in, unless there is something not talked about at all  that was added in the patch to make her spread only have a 70% change of spreading on death/toxic lash. without looking at the source of the game and understand how each node of the code interacts its hard to say exactly what the problem is for sure, but look at this from a logical perspective. LOS code/element was added, rework show signs that would appear to be related to LOS to a degree.  I've played Saryn before rework and normally used very few casts of spores to keep it going, now its a fight to keep spores going on close quarter maps where before it was spreading like wild fire. in maps that allow enemys to walk in chains it still moves fast between them, but when they start to hide around corners it just doesn't spread like it use to. (could also be selected tile sets that are causing issues, but with out me mapping each tile out and spread possibilities its hard to say.) 

 

post the build you were using and maybe we can remove user error we start looking for issues in the code

[Bouldershoulder]

I'm sad that instead of fixing enemy armor and health scaling DE chose the path of power creep. Saryn essentially becomes mandatory for high level grineer missions.

As for the spores, they are great against really high level densely packed enemies, but the problem is that a team mate does "kaboom" and there is no enemies and no spores, and they do "kaboom" pretty often. Also, when kill rate of spores exceed enemy spawn rate, they leave no-one to spread the spores onto the next spawn, which essentially makes spores a logarithmic killer which takes time to ramp the damage and then just kills everything fast leaving none behind to spread the disease.

[NytemareRhosyn]

Ok as for los, im talkign about fact i watched spores not spread through walls in hydron sedna, even if the spored enemy was touched the wall and enimies were right through it on other side. Other peopel have said the same dam thing. 
 

Also theres only 1 game mode saryn is good at survival, anything else honestly dont touch her. 

After playign her she just cant do defense missions for several reasons, Here are the main points. 1 wave resets, forced spore resets. 2 allies kill not you? no spreading spores. 3 due to 4th and 4rd first ability will rarly be used even if its a "click" and not click again power. which atm it kinda is. After runnign missions withit of all types. only survival feels ok for her to play in. For everything else is just moot. allies will kil lthigns faster then u, waves will reset, theres no point aiming for a spore count. 

 

As for poe? i made a max range "sniper" saryn for poe missions i would "snipe" with my spores and run around leaving death in my wake. now? i have to get uber close compared to before to start my mayem and when i go to cast on another camp if other is still goign i just ended it.

O wait this happened to me in survival allot, as ur runnign around being forced to end ur spores so u can restart them in new location. or having allies clear the area ur "building" them up in. 

And main reason for thisd post is after watchign people on fb, instagram and such bash peopel for not "accepting" her op. or that you are bulding her wrong which is the poitn of warframe MULTIPLE WAYS TO PLAY. this is startign to lock ppl to 1 style

 

 

Now for another poimt, before he passive and first power interacted and gave a "mini" duration bonus for the viral proc. whats the point of her passive on a power that has infinate duration??? a infinate proc? does not need her passive right?;

[Purity]

It's honestly not as bad as I thought it would be. Spores needs sanding here or there, but it's bearable. Only thing that hurts still are team compositions. Spores seem to less of a debuff casting which I'll miss personally, that has synergies to heavy hitting and other debuff frames

[Cibyllae]

4 minutes ago, NytemareRhosyn said:

Ok as for los, im talkign about fact i watched spores not spread through walls in hydron sedna, even if the spored enemy was touched the wall and enimies were right through it on other side. Other peopel have said the same dam thing.

need a video of it mate no one's word is good on the internet

[MurderMurderMurder]

Saryn was a frame that I rarely played because I wasn't a fan of her most used meta. I found it boring and being that I use a razer hex mouse spamming her one would tire my thumb out super fast. With her current changes she is now a frame that I am way more likely to use though there are a few things I wish were a bit different.

1. Her spore spread seems like it can be wildly inconsistent. (probably a bug or something close to that which can be fixed.)

2. Her 1 will often freeze making it unusable. (definitely a bug that I imagine will be fixed soon)

3. Often I found myself with just one mob with a nice stack of damage ticks on him but he's nowhere to be seen while at the same time I have a bunch of mobs right in front of me. Thus currently I have two choices a. Kill the mobs in front of me with in some other way an hope that one mob somewhere dies near some other mobs to preserve my nice damage ticks. Or... b. recast my one on the mobs in front of me and have to start over again with ramping up my damage. I would love to see the recast mechanic change to where I can just continue casting spores to spread them instead of having to reset. In truth I'm not even quite sure why the recast to detonate mechanic exists. The mechanic just works against the player as it is.

4. Saryn can be quite powerful but I found myself losing my fun factor when I'm repeatedly disappointed by seeing my spore damage go away to nothing when all the mobs with spores on them die. From the the perspective of getting the mission done things dieing is generally a good thing. But as it is with the damage ramp up I also feel like some squad compositions really work against Saryn. I can end up feeling like I'm playing Nidus with my stacks constantly being reset. What would instantly make the situation nicer would be if the spore damage decayed like combo points instead of going completely away. 

So all in all I quite appreciate the bulk of the changes and if you didn't touch her again except to fix the mentioned bugs I would probably still play her way more than I did before. But with the extra changes I think she would be a lot more fun, and more useful in a wider range of missions and group compositions. 

[frostymir]

There seems to be a bug that makes spores require line of sight to spread. I can't tell if this is intended or not since I didnt read it on the description but it seems odd to me that a warframe ability like spreading spores would require you to see them. It would be ok with me if the range was nerfed in order to remove line of sight. Even to the point of reducing it all the way down to a base of 25 meters. This is only cause in the current state a barrel of thin wall can block this ability and that seems rather odd.