So word has it a Nerf to Saryn is coming. Surprise...

[SneakyErvin]

4 hours ago, JDxBarracka said:

This is where Pablo statement regarding saryn is true.

Here spore is utterly useless at low levels. The spores need to spread and increment in damage but things die very quickly that its pointless

However  in onslaught that effect is over powered because not only does it spread to 20- 30 + units, its damage reaches well over 10k per tick. All you need to do is spore one target and kill it then just be spectator and watch the plague devour everything

But this isnt really true. While spores may not be optimal in lower level content (exactly where do people draw the line of low/high content?) it still doesnt mean Saryn isnt useful in lower level content. When you level Saryn spores will be strong and weak enough to carry on, problem is other players, but that is the same case for every frame if there is a stronger, better AoE frame present in the same mission. At mid level missions like Hydron you have the use of both spores and miasma. Spores deal enough damage to kill quickly and also spread across the whole map. You also have the option to skip the spore focus and just use miasma to wipe the map clean in a Volt kinda fashion.

Little change is needed in low-mid content, people simply nead to learn how to play Saryn, just like with other frames. ESO does need a change, but I dont know what can be done to effect ESO without ruining her kit in all other parts of the game.

edit: People also need to stop throwing around the word nerf. Never once have Pablo mentioned a straight nerf, just rebalance when it comes to ESO and regular gameplay to get her into a better spot overall.

Edited May 21, 2018 by SneakyErvin

[tundra--]

2 hours ago, Leland_Gaunt said:

That just shows again that they have no bigger plan/no roadmap when they do stuff like this. How is it possible that barely a week after the 2nd rework, they want to nerf her again? It's absolutely ridiculous, and I'm not just saying that because Saryn was/is/and will be one of my favorite frames no matter what. But I'm a bit concerned about the course of action they are taking.

Why not re-work something "right" in the first place? Why not adress issues that are more urgent than Saryn? Does anybody actually know what the other one is doing at DE? Why not rework frames that actually need it like Wukong, Titania or Khora?

It's just a weird concept for me.

Oh well, I'm glad I haven't even had the possibility to really try the "new" Saryn yet. Won't matter now anyway.

Great point you have there and my thoughts exactly.  It's so illogical to release a newly reworked frame, only to nerf (or BALANCE, whatever you want to call it....)  one week later.  Doesn't DE test these changes before releasing them to the general public?  If they had, the rework would have been released in it's intended state and the community backlash could have been completely prevented.

Saryn is one of my most played frames and I'm really hoping she doesn't get ruined....  I guess we wait and see.

Edited May 21, 2018 by tundra--

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

15 hours ago, CrunchyCloud said:

Wow what a bunch of arrogant and clueless nonsense, you're quite the handful.

DE's playtime cannot ever hope to compare to the hundreds of thousands of vets that have (each) played for a long time and know the ins and outs of the game simply because they have so much experience with it. A person who plays a game for hundreds of hours obviously has a better understanding of how it feels to play it than even the devs.

Cute. Tell me, how exactly is she broken?

Also, if you think that what makes a warframe useful is the ability to hold a gun or a meele weapon and kill enemies with that then you're playing the wrong game. COD and Battlefield are more for you.

If a developer doesn't listen to the people that have played the game for hours on end when they tell him that this or that mechanic is bad/unfun then they're doing something wrong. The sheer volume of experience of indirect player QA is a resource that a good developer should use often.

The toggle idea is good because there are some weird people that like running over every pile of loot just to collect it(in a game with a ridiculous amount of loot to be collected), so it would ensure that they get what they want, and the vast majority of the playerbase gets vacuum while being able to bring their pets and not worry about collecting loot like a garbage man (this makes the game laborious and unfun, shocking i know).

Also, what's with this competitiveness? What "advantage" are you talking about? This isn't a PVP game, again - you're playing the wrong game. Go play R6S or something.

Arrogant, clueless nonsense, indeed.

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

15 hours ago, rune_me said:

Which is fine and all. But what do you do when half of those people says "please nerf this" and the other half says "please don't nerf this". Because that is the warframe playerbase in a nutshell. Listening to all the people all the time is impossible for the developers, because all the people wants wildly different things in the game, usually things that cancels out other players wishes. We are not a unified hivemind. This thread and the dozens of others like it, is proof of that.

 

This is one reason I fight against "absolute" declarations here on the forums (though people seem to think me a "troll"... sigh...)  because stating that one player, or even a small group of like-minded players', opinions are facts, or that they somehow represent ALL of us and MUST be listened to by DE, is just wrong.

We whine and demand so much that sometimes it pushes DE into doing things they aren't intending to do, then we complain when THAT happens.  All I'm saying is stop putting them in a bad place and trust that the company that brought us Warframe in the first place, and has continued developing it for half a decade now, knows how to fix their game.  Feedback is helpful, yes, but throwing tantrums and making demands like toddlers isn't the way to get things done.  

People need to accept that their idea of how the Mona Lisa SHOULD be painted is not necessarily in line with DaVinci's vision of his own art piece.  DE is the artist, this is their creation.  I just think we need to stop acting like it's our piece to paint as we demand.

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

If they release something as intended, we complain it isn't good enough.
If they release something that then gets retweaked a bit to fix a few issues, we complain that they didn't do it "right" the first time.

DE is damned if they do, damned if they don't, with this community.  It just pisses me off to see everyone making such a big deal over something so small. Be glad Saryn is getting attention at all.  They're not breaking her, just patching her up to work as intended so other game modes can ALSO work as intended.

And yeah, there are other frames in need of reworks as well.....but mind you, who said that DE was only working on one frame at a time?  Just because they aren't telling us every little detail down to the color of sock they're wearing doesn't mean they aren't doing more.

[Vanille]

21 hours ago, Leland_Gaunt said:

That just shows again that they have no bigger plan/no roadmap when they do stuff like this. How is it possible that barely a week after the 2nd rework, they want to nerf her again?

If you watched the Prime Time that lasted 30 mins longer with Pablo and Reb playing her revisit in the simulacrum, he said they were aware of her possible strength with "infinite" scaling up to 100k, and that it might affect content with lots of enemy density (eso) being too good. And she ended up not performing well outside of that because of gaps between enemies in normal missions not spreading her spores.

[CrunchyCloud]

10 hours ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

Arrogant, clueless nonsense, indeed.

Really? that's your counter-argument? Why do you bother posting then?

[SenorClipClop]

On 2018-05-20 at 12:46 PM, MattM01 said:

So incoming Nerf to Saryn.

What's happening is that in Onslaught, Saryn gets to press two buttons and then the mission plays itself. Meanwhile, many players are having a difficult time using Spores effectively outside of Onslaught.

Nothing about how Saryn will be changed is out yet, but the intention as described here by the designer is to nerf Saryn's Spores within Onslaught (one game mode), and buff Spores for literally every other game mode it can be used in.

[seprent]

10 hours ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

If they release something as intended, we complain it isn't good enough.
If they release something that then gets retweaked a bit to fix a few issues, we complain that they didn't do it "right" the first time.

DE is damned if they do, damned if they don't, with this community.  It just pisses me off to see everyone making such a big deal over something so small

^ This ^ i been here since damn 2013 and this is the community response:

DE: Hey Tenno were gonna do a thing and show you it over a few dev-streams and talk about it and we hope you enjoy it 

Player-base: DE is trying to ruin all the fun who could have guessed/DE why are you doing this X needs this more/WTF IS THIS IM QUITTING OVER THIS REEEEEE/DE is so damn stupid i could do there job better/*Blatantly over powered and badly thought out rework suggestion*/Stop changing the game DE it wont be fun if you do that/ Why are you trying to balance a PVE game this is stupid DE do something more important/*entitled and arrogant post about being a vet and how everything sucks*/DE killed meta build well game is dead gg/

Have a made my point yet? Y'all are the reason we have damn bingo game to make fun of salt i'm on my 23rd #*!%ing card soon to print out my 24th

• i have 3k hours dont call my self a vet i am just a tenno playing a game having fun who occasionally question how some people get from A to B with their stupidity and lightly post 
• i enjoy/hate watching Doomsday Sayers fires burn and eat popcorn while watching and laughing at the fire like a cultist
• i also like Pink Floyd
• And crouching moa is best moa

Edited May 22, 2018 by seprent

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

21 minutes ago, seprent said:

^ This ^ i been here since damn 2013 and this is the community response:

DE: Hey Tenno were gonna do a thing and show you it over a few dev-streams and talk about it and we hope you enjoy it 

Player-base: DE is trying to ruin all the fun who could have guessed/DE why are you doing this X needs this more/WTF IS THIS IM QUITTING OVER THIS REEEEEE/DE is so damn stupid i could do there job better/*Blatantly over powered and badly thought out rework suggestion*/Stop changing the game DE it wont be fun if you do that/ Why are you trying to balance a PVE game this is stupid DE do something more important/*entitled and arrogant post about being a vet and how everything sucks*/DE killed meta build well game is dead gg/

Have a made my point yet? Y'all are the reason we have damn bingo game to make fun of salt i'm on my 23rd #*!%ing card soon to print out my 24th

• i have 3k hours dont call my self a vet i am just a tenno playing a game having fun who occasionally question how some people get from A to B with their stupidity and lightly post 
• i enjoy/hate watching Doomsday Sayers fires burn and eat popcorn while watching and laughing at the fire like a cultist
• i also like Pink Floyd
• And crouching moa is best moa

Don't forget that we just get labelled as "White Knights" or "fanbois" if we defend anything DE does..  *rolls eyes*

I don't know why anyone would think that a company would purposely sabotage their players' experience.  It's dumb to even suggest, but here we are, several hundred forum complaint and conspiracy threads later...

I know me posting about it doesn't do much, but I can't stand the idea that the ONLY thoughts represented on the forums would be from people like those you described.  Someone needs to tap their friggin' breaks

[seprent]

7 hours ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

Don't forget that we just get labelled as "White Knights" or "fanbois" if we defend anything DE does..  *rolls eyes*

I don't know why anyone would think that a company would purposely sabotage their players' experience.  It's dumb to even suggest, but here we are, several hundred forum complaint and conspiracy threads later...

I know me posting about it doesn't do much, but I can't stand the idea that the ONLY thoughts represented on the forums would be from people like those you described.  Someone needs to tap their friggin' breaks

Yep agreed alot of people need to take a collective chill pill and take 5 to think get a drink maybe make a sandwich i know this video is pretty much on one topic but the message is pretty damn clear Get a new attitude and things might be better 

 

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

31 minutes ago, seprent said:

Yep agreed alot of people need to take a collective chill pill and take 5 to think get a drink maybe make a sandwich i know this video is pretty much on one topic but the message is pretty damn clear Get a new attitude and things might be better 

 

THAT video was FANTASTIC!  And spot on, tbh.  I've said it before, but when people get all mad at me for commenting on threads like these because "Well your ideas are dumb!  You have no reason for blah blah blah"  they miss the point.  If DE wants to change things, they will, and I'll adapt.  I don't mind.  They made this game great to begin with, so I'm sure they'll continue to do so.

But I do NOT appreciate people just making constant demands and threats, the toxicity etc is just...ugh.   I just hate to see that behavior going unchallenged and even worse - encouraged!  

I just don't understand the sheer disrespect for DE on these forums.  I'm not a "fanboi" , though I am absolutely a fan, but I do not believe in biting the hand that feeds you.  If someone supplied you with free food and water, would you spit in their face and demand steak and fine wine instead, telling them they're being oppressive if they don't comply?  No!  That'd be ridiculous and bullying.   And yet....here we are...

[seprent]

16 minutes ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

THAT video was FANTASTIC!  And spot on, tbh.  I've said it before, but when people get all mad at me for commenting on threads like these because "Well your ideas are dumb!  You have no reason for blah blah blah"  they miss the point.  If DE wants to change things, they will, and I'll adapt.  I don't mind.  They made this game great to begin with, so I'm sure they'll continue to do so.

But I do NOT appreciate people just making constant demands and threats, the toxicity etc is just...ugh.   I just hate to see that behavior going unchallenged and even worse - encouraged!  

I just don't understand the sheer disrespect for DE on these forums.  I'm not a "fanboi" , though I am absolutely a fan, but I do not believe in biting the hand that feeds you.  If someone supplied you with free food and water, would you spit in their face and demand steak and fine wine instead, telling them they're being oppressive if they don't comply?  No!  That'd be ridiculous and bullying.   And yet....here we are...

This is why i keep my forum browsing to a minimum and mostly come here TO 

• Play Bingo finished my 23rd card starting my 24th now
• Laugh at people being salty because they failed to do something requiring common sense or is way too pissed off to see
• Watch things burn and then they realize their being stupid for doing that Maiming strike when melee rework got announced for example that S#&$ was gold
• Occasionally comment some nonsense that has entered the void that is my mind and i feel must be said
• Vent pent up months of anger that were basically playing dark souls with DE's development road on how we react one can only take so much stupid
• Occasionally poke a bear in a thread so they make a ass of them self because i think its funny to see someone rage at some simple logic 
• Rarely have a Civil conversation seems this one is getting rarer every day 
• Listen to Money by Pink Floyd while i farm credits or valuable resources because it fits and i love the song 

[CrunchyCloud]

1 hour ago, seprent said:

Yep agreed alot of people need to take a collective chill pill and take 5 to think get a drink maybe make a sandwich i know this video is pretty much on one topic but the message is pretty damn clear Get a new attitude and things might be better 

 

I disagree with that video on some points.

First off, besides the usually vitriolic and toxic players that behave as he describes, there are a ton of good-intentioned and polite people that present their reasoning with clarity and good manners. Warframe's community is one of the best communities of any online game, and i don't think many will disagree with that.

Second, the line "I haven't heard a good argument against univac" exists because arguments for univac have been around for years and no good argument (i scoured reddit and the forum for them they're all non-existent) was presented against it. And despite that DE simply won't comment on univac at all. Also, if you have one, please write it. I'd love to hear it.

Third, comparing the community's relationship with DE to a regular 2-person relationship is absurd. There are a lot of factors that make them uncomparable, chief among them is DE being a company which needs to make money. Also it's not as if they haven't done some shady S#&$ in the past (and the not so distant past).

Edited May 22, 2018 by CrunchyCloud
Grammar

[Kalvorax]

11 hours ago, Kiwinille said:

And she ended up not performing well outside of that because of gaps between enemies in normal missions not spreading her spores.

maybe what they need to change it. There is the fact that spore spread on enemy death is 1/2 the listed range, where as the way to get full spread is toxic lash or aoe weapons (or aoe status like gas or blast)

Edited May 22, 2018 by Kalvorax

[seprent]

1 minute ago, CrunchyCloud said:

I disagree with that video on some points.

First off, besides the usually vitriolic and toxic players that behave as he describes, there are a ton of good-intentioned and polite people that present their reasoning with clarity and good manners. Warframe's community is one of the best communities of any online game, and i don't think many will disagree with that.

Second, the line "I haven't heard a good argument against univac" exists because arguments for univac have been around for years and no good argument (i scoured reddit and the forum, for them. they're all S#&$) was presented against it. And despite that DE simply won't comment on univac at all.

Third, comparing the community's relation ship with DE to a regular 2-person relationship is absurd. There are a lot of factors that make them uncomparable, chief among them is DE being a company which needs to make money. Also it's not as if they haven't done some shady S#&$ in the past (and not so distant past).

1. Yes there are good people in this community but normally or from what has been seen they mostly get buried in all the toxic peoples rage threads when DE announces there changing something
2. DE could flat out say no to this and people would still be asking for it the argument could exist for every action there is a equal or opposite reaction just because you haven't found it doesn't mean it doesn't exist 
3. pretty sure he wasn't comparing it he was saying put it into a different context then player to developer of game yeah there are alot of factors to makes them non-compatible but there still people like you or me 
4. I mostly posted the video to show that just because people can have good intentions and occasionally good ideas but your attitude about communicating those ideas is a big deal breaker because its not ourselves we need to convince its the devs You can have the best idea in the world but it talked down to everyone and acted like a prick then no one is really gonna listen to you heh in this day an age your more likely to be fined cash because you hurt someones feelings with your idea and how you communicated it 

[Misgenesis]

Time to derail because i simply CANT resist

Spoiler

37 minutes ago, CrunchyCloud said:

Second, the line "I haven't heard a good argument against univac" exists because arguments for univac have been around for years and no good argument (i scoured reddit and the forum for them they're all non-existent) was presented against it. And despite that DE simply won't comment on univac at all. Also, if you have one, please write it. I'd love to hear it.

Just because someone disagrees with arguments against it doesnt mean there hasnt been any good arguments against it. I could similarly brush off arguments for univac. Reddit from my understanding is such a echo chamber that of course no one would argue against it there. They only want whats best for them.

37 minutes ago, CrunchyCloud said:

DE being a company which needs to make money

If people arguing for univac were to think outside of what they personally want for once, they'd realize this is one aspect of arguments against univac and one DE is most likely taking into consideration. In short; monetary incentives and gameplay implications.

 

 

[Saturmorn_Carvilli]

1 minute ago, Misgenesis said:

Time to derail because i simply CANT resist

  Hide contents

 

Just because someone disagrees with arguments against it doesnt mean there hasnt been any good arguments against it. I could similarly brush off arguments for univac. Reddit from my understanding is such a echo chamber that of course no one would argue against it there. They only want whats best for them.

If people arguing for univac were to think outside of what they personally want for once, they'd realize this is one aspect of arguments against univac and one DE is most likely taking into consideration. In short; monetary incentives and gameplay implications.

 

 

Thanks, I also wanted say it, but as a de-rail; I didn't want to comment that, "Just because you haven't been convinced there is a good argument, doesn't mean there isn't one.  It more likely means you haven't thought/encountered it yet or was unconvinced by it."  I personally haven't been convinced there is a need for universal vacuum.  Huh? Funny how people have different opinions on things. I am sure there are good arguments for it, but they haven't convinced me that universal vacuum is necessary yet.

Back to the tread, so this post wasn't a complete waste of time, but I have already stated that the Saryn re-work came out of nowhere when half dozen or more frames could actually use a re-work.  Was put out into the wild perceived to be overly strong (for the new game mode) and now it is likely to be reduce in strength for that same game mode.  While I am sure this wasn't the case, but it does come off as buffing Saryn to keep the unrest minimal initially to let players get a feel for what the re-work can do.  Now that players have mostly accepted the re-work reducing its effectiveness to the place Saryn is likely to see the most game play.

Considering that few (any) people were clamoring for a Saryn re-work and the update has a decently large amount of changes.  I don't see why DE had to put the re-work out knowing that it would have drastic effects to the new game mode that still needs fine tuning itself.  I think everyone would have been better off if DE had kept the Saryn re-work under their hats until they get Onslaught where they want it then make sure Saryn isn't going to do things to the game mode they don't want.  It isn't like the new spores thing is a minor bug on how it works in Onslaught.  It seems like the sort of thing DE doesn't need some 10,000 players to inform them of the results.  They could have waited get things much closer to what they wanted and created a lot less grumbling in doing so.

[Ketec]

This is why i don't play like 80% of the frames - the reworks+nerfs have turned them into very niche boring and ineffective mastery fodder.