The Saryn Nerf Really guys?

[peterc3]

16 minutes ago, Mardomus said:

Saryn was good with the current content compared to other frames

And completely falls down on any other content. Which the person doing the rework has pointed out as why he is going over Saryn again.

17 minutes ago, Mardomus said:

how much its being processed when Veterans, Youtubers, and partners been asking for things for a LONG time

People asking for things for a long time, so what? Lots of things being asked for. An idea being popular does not make it right for the game. It doesn't make it wrong for the game either.

19 minutes ago, Mardomus said:

to buff Saryn over other lacking frames

This was one dev doing this. He didn't like where he had her last time and now he's had the chance to go over her again, and still wants to make her better.

[Mardomus]

19 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

And completely falls down on any other content. Which the person doing the rework has pointed out as why he is going over Saryn again.

People asking for things for a long time, so what? Lots of things being asked for. An idea being popular does not make it right for the game. It doesn't make it wrong for the game either.

This was one dev doing this. He didn't like where he had her last time and now he's had the chance to go over her again, and still wants to make her better.

I'm not saying an IDEA being popular or by any individual be used, but if that content is being less played like the raid they took out, and frames are being less used, that alone tells you, as a dev, that individuals who are playing your game don't find parts of it interesting. That is why many individuals ask for reworks with many ideas that can help focus on a frame  "rebirth", instead of playing other frames in order to be valuable in groups by doing dmg, cc, or what ever role those individual's prefer when the frame they expect doesn't meet content expectations. "People asking for things for a long time, so what?" <-- That is the problem. Frames still have bugs and are under performing for a long time, and content, old, still have bugs that can screw over individuals who are farming for materials and your response to that is... "so what"? Whelp I'll be ending this conversation. 

Edited May 20, 2018 by Mardomus

[peterc3]

1 minute ago, Mardomus said:

That is why many individuals ask for reworks

Sure, lots of people ask for reworks on everything from the least used to the most used equipment. DE generally doesn't take people's words at face value.

2 minutes ago, Mardomus said:

many ideas that can help focus on a frame  "rebirth"

Again, just because the players think they know something better than the devs, doesn't mean they do. Those myriad reworks tend to not fit in with a frames theme or its intended place in the game. If DE wanted every frame to do damage, CC and heal, they'd just make one ability set and turn everything into skins.

5 minutes ago, Mardomus said:

Frames still have bugs

Bugs are not immediately located or dealt with. There are countless systems that intertwine that could cause problems. Should development grind to a halt until a given bug is dealt with?

6 minutes ago, Mardomus said:

your response to that is... "so what"? Whelp I'll be ending this conversation. 

My response of "So what?" was to people asking for things. People asking for things does not obligate DE to do those things. People ask for there to be a MOBA mode or for there to be a Battle Royale mode to be added. Should DE add those?

[Edzhang]

I dont know about you guys, but imo frame should have some mission preference where they can be good at.. loki/ash/ivara/octavia/(wukong for me) being best at spy or survival, inaros/nidus/wukong/valkyr at survival, frost/limbo/gara? at excavation or defense, and so on.. so saryn being good at higher level mission and SO/ESO is no difference than ember on lower level mission.. please make her 1 recastable and that’s it, no more..

[(XBOX)Kaldwin1571]

1 hour ago, seprent said:

i think they only care is ONE frame is doing the 1 shotting if your working together then thats fine personally i dont remember 

You see, no sense lol

[Morthal]

30 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

If DE wanted every frame to do damage, CC and heal, they'd just make one ability set and turn everything into skins.

Isn't that right, Khora?

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

vor 6 Stunden schrieb (PS4)NouhArch:

But heres the thing there were more ways to play her! A melee saryn build is SUPER fun to be frank and people who played saryn alot could tell you that. You could try to use molt as a decoy and hit a crowd with your plasmor etcetc etc. there were MORE play styles but the more known one cause this rework. 

They literally buffed every aspect of her melee playstyle where it was lacking and addet another status to her kit, what benefits CO by a lot. Your point exactly?

She was over the top on one thing and too darn weak with everything else. It is not like they took from her, she was rebalanced to work equally well whatever you do with her. They adressed everything about her, not just the one obvious playstyle. (The way they did with ember)

Edited May 20, 2018 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

14 hours ago, (PS4)NouhArch said:

I really don't like to complain but you guys first rework Saryn a frame that was fine in the first place? There are plenty of other frames that could have got the love but.... saryn? okay its cool! Really after I saw the rework it looked sorta fun then BOOM because she's more broken in onslaught you're gonna nerf her? I feel as if you shouldn't nerf a frame because its outperforming in your new game mode. Ex ( Chroma) Are you going to nerf a nuking trin or Equinox next because i'm pretty sure they do amazing in Onslaught. It really sucks because you guys do this all the time and I love warframe but me and all my friends who play are getting kind of tired of this cycle. You give us something good then nerf it to crap call it "fair and balanced" then move on. Not to mention I play saryn more then anything. Look DE please just leave her alone... Also i'm aware of the hate i'm going to get for this but if you don't care for my view why speak on it?

1) her kit was not "fine."  You clearly don't know Saryn if you truly believed that.

2) She was addressed because the dev who worked on her wanted to do more work since warframe changed a bit sense then.  They mentioned this.

3) She's not being nerfed because she breaks ESO.  She's being tweaked further because her current kit has several issues.  Spores as is break ESO but don't function well in star chart.  They allow you to AFK which isn't good from a power perspective and terrible from a play perspective.  Her miasma and lash don't work well with other saryn spores.  Losing all of her damage after an infection dies out (which you have no control over btw) feels bad.  It's a good base for an updated saryn.  the pieces are there.  Some adjustments need to be made.

4) Chroma was changed because vex armor was not functioning properly.  They made note of this on their streams forever ago and specifically stated they would go back and adjust it one day.  Him OHKing a group activity boss only pressed the issue of his kit.  Not created it.  Chroma is also not done being tweaked.  They also mentioned after fixing Chroma that he still isn't in a great spot and they will get back to him at some point.

5)  Nuking trin is going to go for the same reason nukong went.  it's an unintended exploit.  Trinity needs to be reworked anyway.  Which again is something they've already mentioned on stream forever ago.

6) Equinox will absolutely get addressed at some point because they're moving away from the easy peasy area nuking that is still in the game.  They want players to feel powerful but they also want players to actually be playing more.  They started this journey awhile ago.  Them continuing to address this should be expected.

7) To my knowledge since i've been with Warframe (which is when abilities were mods you equipped) I can't recall them nerfing anything into true dead status except synoid secondary.  And it got buffed back eventually.  If you think any change as of recent was "nerfed to crap" then you clearly have bad builds.  Because everything is viable.

You're going to get hate not because we hate your view based on clashing views alone.  You're getting hate because you're ignorant and stuck in your way in terms of mentality.  "not to mention I play saryn more than anything."  Must hurt having all that play time with her and not actually knowing her.  Which you clearly don't because you thought her kit pre recent update was actually fine.

[Kletse]

18 hours ago, (XB1)TRL kaldwin said:

You see, no sense lol

No?

[(XBOX)Kaldwin1571]

17 minutes ago, Kletse said:

No?

Completely no, can you find a sense to nerf Chroma and not immortal warframe or equinox nuke? Or just gara that have a greater damage reduction? ( don't nerf Gara too just buff Chroma, he need great buff). 

Edited May 21, 2018 by (XB1)TRL kaldwin

[Derethevil]

Just gonna say it because no one else does.

Since Saryn got really good at this one thing right now and they hate it so much it seems... What about the others? Volt? Trinity? Equinox? They can pretty much do the same thing yet they don't get nerfed. 

About that crappy Eidolon one shotting thing. This argument is so old and stale that i do not even know what to say anymore. I can one shot eidolons with Trinity too. Chroma just had it a bit easier but got nerfed into the ground for that. Then i demand every other Warframe to get nerfed too. Take away all the things that makes a Warframe special. So soon we can play purely Fashionframe and don't have any special abilities no more. No survivability. No Tank. No CC. No dmg. Nothing. 
Then no one can cry a round for someone being "OP" or so. That is the only logical thing to do if we go by DE's logic. 

So either do that or leave Saryn alone and buff Chroma back where he belongs. At least his survivability. That is all what i really kinda start hating DE for right now. Constantly screwing you over your invested time, then crawling up to you with a pesky Forma for everything and think it is enough to make me forget about the fact that i spend days and weeks for nothing. 

This has to stop. Seriously. Just happy that State of Decay 2 is around the corner and i can finally shelf Warframe for a good while. 

[(XBOX)Kaldwin1571]

DE has no logic, he does things randomly, senseless ... 1 thing I just ask DE and this game ....

TAKE CHROMA SURVIVABILITY Back,

And a bit more damage

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

10 hours ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

1) her kit was not "fine."  You clearly don't know Saryn if you truly believed that.

2) She was addressed because the dev who worked on her wanted to do more work since warframe changed a bit sense then.  They mentioned this.

3) She's not being nerfed because she breaks ESO.  She's being tweaked further because her current kit has several issues.  Spores as is break ESO but don't function well in star chart.  They allow you to AFK which isn't good from a power perspective and terrible from a play perspective.  Her miasma and lash don't work well with other saryn spores.  Losing all of her damage after an infection dies out (which you have no control over btw) feels bad.  It's a good base for an updated saryn.  the pieces are there.  Some adjustments need to be made.

4) Chroma was changed because vex armor was not functioning properly.  They made note of this on their streams forever ago and specifically stated they would go back and adjust it one day.  Him OHKing a group activity boss only pressed the issue of his kit.  Not created it.  Chroma is also not done being tweaked.  They also mentioned after fixing Chroma that he still isn't in a great spot and they will get back to him at some point.

5)  Nuking trin is going to go for the same reason nukong went.  it's an unintended exploit.  Trinity needs to be reworked anyway.  Which again is something they've already mentioned on stream forever ago.

6) Equinox will absolutely get addressed at some point because they're moving away from the easy peasy area nuking that is still in the game.  They want players to feel powerful but they also want players to actually be playing more.  They started this journey awhile ago.  Them continuing to address this should be expected.

7) To my knowledge since i've been with Warframe (which is when abilities were mods you equipped) I can't recall them nerfing anything into true dead status except synoid secondary.  And it got buffed back eventually.  If you think any change as of recent was "nerfed to crap" then you clearly have bad builds.  Because everything is viable.

You're going to get hate not because we hate your view based on clashing views alone.  You're getting hate because you're ignorant and stuck in your way in terms of mentality.  "not to mention I play saryn more than anything."  Must hurt having all that play time with her and not actually knowing her.  Which you clearly don't because you thought her kit pre recent update was actually fine.

Why so rude man and in all honesty as a guy who plays Saryn literally everyday I can say her kit was fine for a lot of things. It wasn’t the best nor really really broken but it got the job done. I’m not an spores molt Saryn and even so she didn’t have a bad kit if you were doing that she was fun and her kit was tailored to her (still is) 

2.she kinda is in all honesty. She’s being looked at again because of eso and her not peforming well in the star chat. But you said it right there and admitted she breaks eso which is a huge part. And it’s very clear to see. Lol when de drops new game modes the frames who perform the highest get looked at a lot of times and we all know this 

4. They knew how chroma was and admitted such earlier before the rework and had ample updates to fix him before they learned he could oneshot an eidlon and it’s not nice to simply call me out and say “I have bad builds” because I don’t think like you frankly I think you have a bad attitude bro ❤️😓 bless and I hope you enjoy future updates 

[Kletse]

1 hour ago, (XB1)TRL kaldwin said:

Completely no, can you find a sense to nerf Chroma and not immortal warframe or equinox nuke? Or just gara that have a greater damage reduction? ( don't nerf Gara too just buff Chroma, he need great buff). 

Ow, i thought working together to get max damage output didn't make sense to you. My bad.

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

23 hours ago, peterc3 said:

Yeah, DE doesn't listen to the community. They rarely take feedback. Right.

It couldn't be that players don't have the best view of the game. It couldn't be that the players don't have to make a business around the game. It couldn't be that what you think is best for the game isn't the best thing for the game.

The whole point is Saryn can't deal with all of the current content, which includes everything made before SO, a point explicitly made by the person doing the rework.

If DE doesn't listen to the community or its feedback, why would it matter if they spoke up?

I just realized though bro why are you so aggressive it’s a simply discussion we’re not witch hunting de we’re just like woah why Saryn n S#&amp;&#036;. If you don’t have anything to say in a non rude manner pls don’t be a butt and come aggressive on forums you look like a white night who try’s to hard in life

[(XBOX)Kaldwin1571]

14 minutes ago, Kletse said:

Ow, i thought working together to get max damage output didn't make sense to you. My bad.

And you like to stay 1 cm from the ass of your teammates to get some armor buff? 

If u like it ok but Chroma is a tank damage dealer not a support. 

Even if now is considered a support his buff to squad is very bad, you have to play with 3 chroma to get a good buff. 

Not worth 

[Kletse]

51 minutes ago, (XB1)TRL kaldwin said:

And you like to stay 1 cm from the ass of your teammates to get some armor buff? 

If u like it ok but Chroma is a tank damage dealer not a support. 

Even if now is considered a support his buff to squad is very bad, you have to play with 3 chroma to get a good buff. 

Not worth 

Nope, you quoted seprent and he quoted someone who said something about oneshotting with chroma through volt shield. So i was refering to that.

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

2 hours ago, (PS4)NouhArch said:

Why so rude man and in all honesty as a guy who plays Saryn literally everyday I can say her kit was fine for a lot of things. It wasn’t the best nor really really broken but it got the job done. I’m not an spores molt Saryn and even so she didn’t have a bad kit if you were doing that she was fun and her kit was tailored to her (still is) 

2.she kinda is in all honesty. She’s being looked at again because of eso and her not peforming well in the star chat. But you said it right there and admitted she breaks eso which is a huge part. And it’s very clear to see. Lol when de drops new game modes the frames who perform the highest get looked at a lot of times and we all know this 

4. They knew how chroma was and admitted such earlier before the rework and had ample updates to fix him before they learned he could oneshot an eidlon and it’s not nice to simply call me out and say “I have bad builds” because I don’t think like you frankly I think you have a bad attitude bro ❤️😓 bless and I hope you enjoy future updates 

You can say whatever you want.  Doesn't mean you're right.  Her kit being functional doesn't mean her kit is fine.  Never claimed her kit was bad.  Just that it wasn't fine.  Any season saryn player should know how buggy she was.  And that we never really knew what was and wasn't intended with spore interaction.  Half the point of the revisit was to fix her bugs and make clear of what she should and shouldn't be doing.

Yes.  ESO is apart of it.  But ya'll are only looking at that when there are other just as important reasons behind her being changed.  Focusing on only one to try to make a point just makes your side of the debate look weak.  Do you work at DE?  Just because you think they have time doesn't mean they actually do.  If you've been with De for a long time you should know how often something is placed on a back burner.

My attitude towards you is because of how you come off.  Maybe if you don't want people assuming you're a cheesy meta hog who looks at DE in the light of "nerf everything that's fun" you shouldn't post like that.

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

3 hours ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

You can say whatever you want.  Doesn't mean you're right.  Her kit being functional doesn't mean her kit is fine.  Never claimed her kit was bad.  Just that it wasn't fine.  Any season saryn player should know how buggy she was.  And that we never really knew what was and wasn't intended with spore interaction.  Half the point of the revisit was to fix her bugs and make clear of what she should and shouldn't be doing.

Yes.  ESO is apart of it.  But ya'll are only looking at that when there are other just as important reasons behind her being changed.  Focusing on only one to try to make a point just makes your side of the debate look weak.  Do you work at DE?  Just because you think they have time doesn't mean they actually do.  If you've been with De for a long time you should know how often something is placed on a back burner.

My attitude towards you is because of how you come off.  Maybe if you don't want people assuming you're a cheesy meta hog who looks at DE in the light of "nerf everything that's fun" you shouldn't post like that.

If you’d pay attention youd see I’m an advocate for the rework and even stated it seemed cool but to nerf because it’s peforming well in the game mode to where you’re supposed to kill enemies at a rapid pace seems kinda redundant and also I’m far from meta bro 😔 2 hour solo mot melee Saryn ☺️ I’m upset because they keep touching at my favorites frame and coming from such is why I posted it’s not just onslaught that caused the nerf but we all know it’s the biggest portion and no I don’t work I de. I play their game I’m not demanding much and I’m not being pushy but as a player who’s invested time in the game I feel as if I can have a say rather then be like oh well

[Attel_Malagate]

Le 20/05/2018 à 16:29, Artek94 a dit :

The Saryn was reworked again because the synergy of her skills felt forced and her 2nd and 3rd skills were almost useless.
There was literally only 2 ways to play her: spam spores everywhere to spread the viral or do the setup of Molt > Spores > Miasma to nuke the room you are in.

The rework brought about general quality over her entire kit and made her less of one-trick-pony. I see that as a good thing.
Unfortunately, as it is often the case. there happened to be some unforseen consequences to that. So now DE have to adress that because - and i said these words so many times im getting tired of repeating them - DE had showed CLEAR pattern of disliking passive gameplay styles that revolve around spaming same set of abilities from safety of a corner of the room and are slowly, one by one, they adress all the Warframes (or weapons) that can do that.

That's why Ash has to look at the enemy in order to assassinate.
That's why Ember got... whatever she got.
That's why Banshee's augment was changed (although i would argue it made her even worse, so look up to nerf of that).
That's why suicidal Trinity is most likely to be adressed in the near future.
That's why Mesa now requires some general imput from the player to aim at the potential victims, instead of being an all-seeing turret.
That's why LoS was added to melee, radial blind and many other things.

The pattern of nerfing passive low-effort high damage output across a large area tools is clear and i would propose to people to take any tool that is capable of that with a grain of salt, because its a very likely event that its going to get nerfed at some point, one way or the other.

I'm sorry, but that's just how this is, this is how DE see their game being played, and frankly - i agree with them.

I'd like you and DE to define "passive" because the new Saryn is legit the only frame in years where I find myself using all 4 abilities of her kit, if warframes like ember exist, I don't see why her spore should not have a right to exist as well, saryn is a DPS frame after all, she is entitled to a good damage dealing ability,  frankly she is supposed to be "op" but if she gets nerfed I will just go back to my Mesa and enoy that sweet DPS combines with 95% DR of her 3, meanwhile Saryn gets regenerative molt as a defensive ability and thats it, I just don't see the logic here.

 

[Artekkor]

26 минут назад, nononimous сказал:

I'd like you and DE to define "passive" because the new Saryn is legit the only frame in years where I find myself using all 4 abilities of her kit, if warframes like ember exist, I don't see why her spore should not have a right to exist as well, saryn is a DPS frame after all, she is entitled to a good damage dealing ability,  frankly she is supposed to be "op" but if she gets nerfed I will just go back to my Mesa and enoy that sweet DPS combines with 95% DR of her 3, meanwhile Saryn gets regenerative molt as a defensive ability and thats it, I just don't see the logic here.

 

Well i described it right there, didn't i? Using the same 1-2 abilities from safety of a corner of the map.

Apparently the new Saryn is overpowerd in Sanctuary Onslaught. She can cast cast spores and then LITERALLY go afk in a corner while spores murder everything.

 

[Attel_Malagate]

il y a 15 minutes, Artek94 a dit :

Well i described it right there, didn't i? Using the same 1-2 abilities from safety of a corner of the map.

Apparently the new Saryn is overpowerd in Sanctuary Onslaught. She can cast cast spores and then LITERALLY go afk in a corner while spores murder everything.

 

Yeah a mode that is literaly "lets cram a lot of ennemies  and 4 warframes into a shoebox and see what happens" isn't exactly the benchmark of all gameplay, not my fault of DE created this abomiantion of a gamemode that makes de facto every AOE ability broken.

[Artekkor]

9 минут назад, nononimous сказал:

Yeah a mode that is literaly "lets cram a lot of ennemies  and 4 warframes into a shoebox and see what happens" isn't exactly the benchmark of all gameplay, not my fault of DE created this abomiantion of a gamemode that makes de facto every AOE ability broken.

Not every, only the ones that can deal insane amounts of damage without much interaction from the player.
Right now Saryn is the only warframe that has an ability that can essentially work forever, hence why she can literally own the onslaught.

And there's a possibility that Onslaught was made with a plan in mind to trick the players into using the mettiest of the map-nuking metas, so that DE could see them and nerf them as soon as they see them. So, yeah...

Sanctuary Onslaught? More like Meta Slaughter (hurhurhur)

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

3 minutes ago, Artek94 said:

Not every, only the ones that can deal insane amounts of damage without much interaction from the player.
Right now Saryn is the only warframe that has an ability that can essentially work forever, hence why she can literally own the onslaught.

And there's a possibility that Onslaught was made with a plan in mind to trick the players into using the mettiest of the map-nuking metas, so that DE could see them and nerf them as soon as they see them. So, yeah...

Sanctuary Onslaught? More like Meta Slaughter (hurhurhur)

But here’s the kicker they made Saryn like this when she didn’t need to be touched at all

[Artekkor]

6 минут назад, (PS4)NouhArch сказал:

But here’s the kicker they made Saryn like this when she didn’t need to be touched at all

I would argut that she did. She was... "fine", but her gameplay style felt forced. 2nd and 3rd abilities felt weak. Especially 2nd.
And the only 2 ways to play her properly was to either spam viral spores everywhere, or do the classic setup of Molt > Spores > Miasma.

There were melee builds but... They weren't the best, not even near. I mean, who mains melee, right? Especailly now, that LoS was added and super-reach atterax is no longer a thing in most of the game. So the change to her 3rd (applied to firearms too) was needed even more now.

My only "why?" why swaping her spores and her ult in damage types, but we'll see where DE will end up with her.