Dagger for Ash

[Lucavee]

I would like to finish my Ash set up for Vodyanoi / Index, but im missing a dagger for Covert Lethality + Fatal Teleport. And since i dont use melee that much, i would like to ask for your opinions on my 2 options:

1. Should I stick with Rakta Dark Dagger? If yes, why?

2. Should I build a Dagger Zaw? If yes, do you have any build recommendation?

Resource is not an issue for me, and I dont mind grinding for the Zaw parts. Im just wondering whether its worth it to grind for it.

Thank you in advance.

[DarthKadra]

23 hours ago, Lucavee said:

Resource is not an issue for me, and I dont mind grinding for the Zaw parts. Im just wondering whether its worth it to grind for it.

As others have said, for Covert Lethality the dagger doesn't matter. What matters is the animation speed, which is affected by mods. If you have Primed Fury it will be enough to maximize your animation speed, if not you can use a Riven or a combination of Fury+Gladiator Vice, for example. Or combine mods with Arcane Strike, if you want (I never tested this personally, but I see no reason for it to behave differently). Whatever way you choose, the finisher animation cap is at around 150% attack speed.

However, for other purposes I would recommend using either

Sheev - it is the only slash based dagger and pairing it with Relentless Combination will allow you to quickly build up the combo multiplier for Ash's Bladestorm. Its slash proc damage and duration will also be increased by Ash's passive, but even without that buff it's the strongest named dagger.

Zaw Dagger - they are much stronger than named daggers DPS wise, if you plan on actually engaging in melee much.

Rakta Dark Dagger is an honorable mention because of its Syndicate proc (but that very proc can still play a bad joke on you in Spy missions). 

[Railgun]

I strongly recommend building a Zaw dagger. mine is BALLA + KORB + VARGEET II RUHANG, a nice crit dagger that deals 110 damage, nearly twice as much as the strongest normal dagger and about as much as our strongest sword. If you don't have time for a zaw dagger, I also recommend trying the Ceramic Dagger. It's super fast, which speeds up finishers, and has high riven disposition.

[Canach]

I use fatal teleport with covert lethality in the index on a regular basis. The dagger really doesnt matter because CL works fine. I recommend you select and mod for speed as your first priority, which means a Zaw, unless you're like me - I use the Rakta Dark Dagger because it is cool-looking, not goofy looking. I also like the ceramic dagger.

Also, map that FT to your mouse wheel.

Also, if your FT doesn't work because you land on a bursa-chicken or a flying drone, don't try to melee - get some distance and then use your gun!

Edited May 23, 2018 by Canach

[venon23]

 Warframe
the infinity Void

black khora - "and get this man a dagger"

[(XBOX)motionROTATION]

I built a zap because I haven’t traded for Rakta and didn’t want to spend platinum. But my zaw ended looking like Saba from Power Rangers and I made Ash look like the Green Ranger so I’m infinitely more happy I built a zaw. 

So I say if you can model it after s favorite dagger then go for it

[Nazrethim]

hace 31 minutos, Lucavee dijo:

I would like to finish my Ash set up for Vodyanoi / Index, but im missing a dagger for Covert Lethality + Fatal Teleport. And since i dont use melee that much, i would like to ask for your opinions on my 2 options:

1. Should I stick with Rakta Dark Dagger? If yes, why?

If you proc a Rad onto an enemy then Fatal Teleport, you will completely refill your shields and get max overshields. You also get access to the Red Veil mod for a Viral blast.

hace 31 minutos, Lucavee dijo:

2. Should I build a Dagger Zaw? If yes, do you have any build recommendation?

Superior damage and speed, but nothing else. If you plan on just fatal teleporting then it the most desired trait is Attack Speed to speed up finisher animations.

 

[(XBOX)ThermalStone]

1 hour ago, Nazrethim said:

If you proc a Rad onto an enemy then Fatal Teleport, you will completely refill your shields and get max overshields. You also get access to the Red Veil mod for a Viral blast.

Superior damage and speed, but nothing else. If you plan on just fatal teleporting then it the most desired trait is Attack Speed to speed up finisher animations.

 

This.  Doesn't matter what dagger you use as long as it has Covert Lethality.  Might as well use Rakta DD for its extra abilities.  In addition to the ones mentioned above it also decreases the range at which enemies can spot you.

[Kyoresh]

Really doesn't matter which sagger you use. 

But for modding: Put covert lethality and primed fury(or all other atk speed mods) to increase the finisher speed and maybe add all the combo duration mods, because your 4th Skill scales with the combo counter.

[BL4CKN0ISE]

The extras you get with the Rakta Dark Dagger are kinda pointless because you're using it with Ash. Dagger Zaws are the best because you can actually build them to be fast like a dagger should be. Just choose all the fastest attack speed parts. Nothing else can really help Fatal Teleport Ash. 

[ScurdyCat]

If you want to speed up the finisher animation. You only need attack speed mod (eg. Fury)
The attack speed on daggers DON'T contribute to the time it takes for the finisher to complete.
eg. Karyst (slowest dagger in the game) has the same finisher animation time as Rakta D Dagger (fastest dagger not including zaws)

[DatDarkOne]

On ‎2018‎-‎05‎-‎23 at 11:25 AM, Nazrethim said:

If you proc a Rad onto an enemy then Fatal Teleport, you will completely refill your shields and get max overshields. You also get access to the Red Veil mod for a Viral blast.

Superior damage and speed, but nothing else. If you plan on just fatal teleporting then it the most desired trait is Attack Speed to speed up finisher animations.

 

 

23 hours ago, (XB1)ThermalStone said:

This.  Doesn't matter what dagger you use as long as it has Covert Lethality.  Might as well use Rakta DD for its extra abilities.  In addition to the ones mentioned above it also decreases the range at which enemies can spot you.

 

6 hours ago, ScurdyCat said:

If you want to speed up the finisher animation. You only need attack speed mod (eg. Fury)
The attack speed on daggers DON'T contribute to the time it takes for the finisher to complete.
eg. Karyst (slowest dagger in the game) has the same finisher animation time as Rakta D Dagger (fastest dagger not including zaws)

To add to what these fine Tenno have said, the Rakta Dark Dagger with the mod will also give back energy on syndicate procs.  

When you consider all the benefits you can get with the RDD, it's probably the best Covert Lethality dagger to use.  another bonus is that you might not even need to forma it to equip the mods necessary for it to work well.  I didn't.  😀 

Edited May 24, 2018 by DatDarkOne

[(XBOX)deathopz123]

Use arcane strike and fury for attack speed boosts too unranked ones are like 40 to 50p ea

[Canach]

6 hours ago, ScurdyCat said:

If you want to speed up the finisher animation. You only need attack speed mod (eg. Fury)
The attack speed on daggers DON'T contribute to the time it takes for the finisher to complete.
eg. Karyst (slowest dagger in the game) has the same finisher animation time as Rakta D Dagger (fastest dagger not including zaws)

Scurdy, I tried to check you on this, but couldn't find any info this direction. Is this something you've observed yourself? Not doubting you, just would like to know. I'm considering building a Zaw dagger for speed, but if this is true, then it would be a waste.

Deathopz, regarding Arcane Strike - EDIT - does that accrue that chance on each hit from say my rifle shooting at 22/s? Is this like an always up melee speed increase??

Edited May 24, 2018 by Canach

[(XBOX)ThermalStone]

3 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

 

 

To add to what this fine Tenno have said, the Rakta Dark Dagger with the mod will also give back energy on syndicate procs.  

When you consider all the benefits you can get with the RDD, it's probably the best Covert Lethality dagger to use.  another bonus is that you might not even need to forma it to equip the mods necessary for it to work well.  I didn't.  😀 

I put one forma on it just so it will show up near the top when I sort my weapons by forma.

[(PSN)Crixus044]

In terms of Fatal Teleport Ash, there's no reason to use anything other than Rakta Dark Dagger or Zaws. Covert Lethality negates the damage of a dagger, and finisher speed is equal among all daggers, affected by attack speed modifiers only, with exceptions here and there. Primed Fury is all you'll need. Because of this, we must look at the QoL of each dagger type.
Zaw Daggers are pretty ok because they have Exodias for extra effects, and can be built for really high attack speed, which won't help the finisher, but it will help with aerial and slide attack speed, which help mobility. It's very satisfying to dodge bombard rockets with a roll+slide attack combo.

Rakta Dark Dagger has a decent attack speed for mobility, Augment mod gives you free energy and +10% to movement speed as well as a 1000 damage viral AoE with guaranteed proc on effect, can completely refill you with shields when you get a radiation proc on it (easy since it's base damage is radiation and augment give you status chance) with its passive, which also gives you reduced visibility from enemies from far away (Good for spies, but you should take off the augment mod as the AoE proc is buggy and may alert some enemies). It also has one of the best fashion with it.

Up to you.

[(XBOX)Oussii]

On 2018-05-23 at 7:50 PM, Lucavee said:

I would like to finish my Ash set up for Vodyanoi / Index, but im missing a dagger for Covert Lethality + Fatal Teleport. And since i dont use melee that much, i would like to ask for your opinions on my 2 options:

1. Should I stick with Rakta Dark Dagger? If yes, why?

 

Ash is my all time favorite frame and i always play high level survival with him

I can confirm that when you use Rakta dark dagger with blade storm the animation is faster then if you are using any other melee weapon

[DarthKadra]

5 hours ago, (XB1)Oussii said:

can confirm that when you use Rakta dark dagger with blade storm the animation is faster then if you are using any other melee weapon

Not if we're talking about daggers. All daggers have the same animation speed, regardless of the attack speed listed for the weapon. So you can take Karyst or Sheev with their much slower atk speed and they will perform the animation just as fast as the RDD. Only mods matter.

As concerns BS speed using a dagger vs. other weapon classes,  I'm not very comfortable going into that area right now, but after some initial very quick testing without timing it precisely and not with every weapon class, just what my naked eye tells me: it looks the same across the classes I tried. So it stands to prove (or disprove) that all that matters for Bladestorm are mods, not even the weapon class.

Edited May 26, 2018 by DarthKadra

[DatDarkOne]

16 hours ago, (PS4)Crixus044 said:

In terms of Fatal Teleport Ash, there's no reason to use anything other than Rakta Dark Dagger or Zaws. Covert Lethality negates the damage of a dagger, and finisher speed is equal among all daggers, affected by attack speed modifiers only, with exceptions here and there. Primed Fury is all you'll need. Because of this, we must look at the QoL of each dagger type.
Zaw Daggers are pretty ok because they have Exodias for extra effects, and can be built for really high attack speed, which won't help the finisher, but it will help with aerial and slide attack speed, which help mobility. It's very satisfying to dodge bombard rockets with a roll+slide attack combo.

Rakta Dark Dagger has a decent attack speed for mobility, Augment mod gives you free energy and +10% to movement speed as well as a 1000 damage viral AoE with guaranteed proc on effect, can completely refill you with shields when you get a radiation proc on it (easy since it's base damage is radiation and augment give you status chance) with its passive, which also gives you reduced visibility from enemies from far away (Good for spies, but you should take off the augment mod as the AoE proc is buggy and may alert some enemies). It also has one of the best fashion with it.

Up to you.

When you really think about it, it IS a much harder choice than it seems.  I had just remembered that zaw daggers can also benefit from Ash's passive where the RDD doesn't.  So depending on playstyle and/or intended use for Ash, the best dagger could be either one.  

Hehe, you just gotta love a game that gives you options on how you want to do something.  This is why I like Warframe so much.  You can tune it to better fit "you".  

 

[(PSN)teacup775]

I’ve used both. Rakta is a lot of fun but my Zaw dagger, built for speed as a joke, three strokes 145 enemies with any frame and i simply love it on Ash. Zaws seem to have a bit more range over ratka.

 A properly modded Ash will murder everything with either. efficency and duration = murder fest.

[(XBOX)ThermalStone]

I had some more thoughts on this as I rolled my Dark Dagger riven looking for attack speed.  All you really care about for Fatal Teleport is Covert Lethality and attack speed. There are three ways to put attack speed on your dagger: (Primed) Fury, Gladiator Vice, and a riven.  Rakta DD has faint riven disposition.  I'm only getting +26.something to attack speed with a two attribute riven.  Perhaps the answer to the OP's question is any dagger with a strong disposition as long as you have an attack speed riven.

[(PSN)Lord-Reikaz]

Public service announcement. 

 

If you are not actively holding the RDD (as in still can fire your primary rifle) gleaming blight does not collect affinity and will not AOE burst. You dont have to remove it for spy missions, just dont hold the dagger primarily. 

[ScurdyCat]

On 2018-05-25 at 12:09 AM, Canach said:

Scurdy, I tried to check you on this, but couldn't find any info this direction. Is this something you've observed yourself? Not doubting you, just would like to know. I'm considering building a Zaw dagger for speed, but if this is true, then it would be a waste.

Deathopz, regarding Arcane Strike - EDIT - does that accrue that chance on each hit from say my rifle shooting at 22/s? Is this like an always up melee speed increase??

Sorry for not replying to you earlier @Canach
Been away for awhile... not sure if you've already built your zaw dagger but this was the thread I read a looong time back.

And this is quoted from Warframe Wiki
Fury, Quickening,  Arcane Strike and the weapon type have an influence on the Finisher animation speed while Berserker and the weapon's base attack speed do not.

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Finisher

[Canach]

@ScurdyCat Thanks for the reply! Makes sense.