Working with Limbo: A guide for non-Limbo's

[Tengetsu96]

It doesn't help when Limbo players act as if their the messiah sent to save us from trash mobs - the only mission you can maybe fail on the starchart are spy missions

Melee-only is a sortie modifier designed to challenge/annoy the player. Limbo players have to perform some serious mental gymnastics to rationalize it in ability form

It doesn't really matter if there are "good-guy" Limbos - regular players shouldn't even have the option to forcibly change another player's gameplay. Limbo isn't the only frame guilty of it, but he is one of the most extreme cases

[(XBOX)Shodian]

I honestly don't understand the frustration when it comes to playing with Limbo. If you're in the rift and don't want to be, just backflip, if you see enemies frozen, melee them. If they're in the rift, just let the Limbo take care of them. It's not difficult. 

I play Limbo as a high target killer. I see a bombard or tech, I freeze time send them to the rift and kill them, rinse repeat.

[HisokaXEveryone]

10 minutes ago, Maqabir said:

I run with Glaive Prime, if there's a Limbo in my group I leave, tired of having my melee weapon stolen and unable to use my guns.

They should just allow other frames to shoot freely in the rift and attack any enemies regardless of whether they're in the rift or not.

If Limbo wants to stay safe in a parallell dimension then let him, it shouldn't affect my ability to kill.

Yeah, I'll actually say DE should allow for ranged weapons to be used by other players. Doesn't really change much to kill a stationary enemy in melee or in ranged, as they aren't going to be able to resist either way. However, for the moment, just wait to dodge until you see if they're using a small bubble setup, and if they are, let him clear inside it himself. And if they're going for large bubble, just say what's going on, and he'll probably drop it. Also, keep in mind that your abilities kill things in and out of the void no problem, so if you've got a warframe with solid ability damage, unload.

 

58 minutes ago, _Vortus_ said:

Zarr  or Kulstar will be standard when Limbo Prime comes out.   Or whatever other weapons that will overload Cataclysm.

Depends on how nice the Limbo is. As I point out in my guide, if he decides to be stubborn about stasis, you're going to run out of ammo before he runs out of energy.

 

1 hour ago, Oreades said:

I really don't get why it's so hard for people who play Limbo to process how disruptive they are and why people don't like to play with Limbos. When most people's experience with a Limbo is that they walk into a game, toss out a max range stasis field that essentially shuts down the game and invalidates two thirds of your weapons loadout.... and their response to peoples issues are a continual stream of "learn to play with Limbo" and "you still have one third of your load out left~ you should be happy~".

I would say that it is the onus of the Limbo players to learn to play in a way that is minimally disruptive to the rest of the game. Good on those Limbo players who have actually mastered the seemingly illusive art of NOT running max range stasis at all times, always. 

I explained to another guy earlier, but a large part of the reason that people play Limbo in that way is probably because when they first get access to the quest to unlock him they may not even know that Narrow Minded exists or that negative range is a valuable thing. Add to that the fact that adding more range is a very obvious way to increase what seems to be his "power", and you get the problem.

 

5 hours ago, Axio. said:

Why would I want a limbo when I could have instead had a Volt? A Banshee? A Trinity? A Harrow? A Frost? A Loki? A Nezha? If I am going into a mission where I already know the objective, I am going to take a frame specialized and good for that mission. Nekros goes into Survivals, Frosts and Garas and Nuke frames flock to Defense. CC Kings live in ecstatic delirium within Interceptions, stealth frames rule the Spies... Speed frames exceed Capture, Rescue, and Sabotage... Even Nezha is preferable to a Limbo because of his augment in a defection or sortie defense, because it doesn't inconvenience any other party members while doing almost the same thing.

 

Limbo is not useless because he has no use, he is useless because the situations where he is most useful (i.e. Defections and Humanoid-Defense Sorties) are too few and far between. In almost every other situation, I can think of several frames I would want to have, rather than a Limbo:

Mobile/Defense: Gara, Frost, Ember, Equinox, Saryn, Volt, Trinity, Vauban, Hydroid, Rhino, Nova, Nidus, Banshee, Nyx
Spy: Ash, Loki, Octavia, Ivara
Sabotage: Volt, Octavia
Rescue: Volt, Octavia
Capture: Volt, Octavia
Extermination: Volt, Octavia, Ember, Equinox, Saryn, Banshee
Interception: Literally any frame other than Limbo
Survival: Nekros, Hydroid, Ivara, Atlas, Oberon, Nidus, Banshee
Excavation: Gara, Frost, Khora, Volt, Vauban, Hydroid
Defection: Ivara, Nezha, Vauban, Trinity, Oberon, Harrow, Khora
Assassination: Chroma, Volt, Rhino, Inaros, Octavia

*** Just because a frame isn't listed here, such as Mirage, or Zephyr, that does not mean I'd rather see a Limbo than those frames. I'd rather never see a Limbo, because Mirage and Zephyr are not going to give me mental stress over what I am going to do if the player playing Limbo decides to be a jerk. ***

And don't even get me started on how horrendous his Plains of the Eidolon content is. About the only reasonably decent thing Limbo can do on the Plains is Rift out the lures.

It's not that Limbo is bad, he just suffers from Pre-work Oberon Syndrome. Why would you use him when better alternatives exist?

Two of Limbo's abilities have exactly 0 synergy with any other warframe or ability in existence. In a team-based game such as Warframe, Limbo's abilities are unanimously solo play viable. And that's it.

I don't want the playstyle of one person to disrupt and discourage the other three people in play. Limbo was poorly designed and ill-conceived, and you cannot honestly tell me, with a straight face, that any of these points can be easily refuted.

 

That's my two ducats on it, at least. Limbo cannot survive as being an explicitly solo-viable frame in a game that is 99% team based, and I will vehemently protest to preserve my right to leave a mission the moment I see someone playing this failed experiment of a warframe.

~~~~~

 

On a completely different note, you have an excellent speaking voice and the humor you use in videos, as well as the editing, are rather nice. You could stand to consider doing retakes of lines where you stammer, stutter, or stumble, but all in all the quality of your audio can be fixed simply with a better microphone.

First, thank you for your compliments on the videos. I'm still learning, and yeah, I need to work on my stuttering, but I've got a few video's planned for the future that aren't all about Limbo, so keep an eye out! 😄

 

Anyways, since I guess I didn't make it very clear in the video, and there's more stuff that I need to talk about in the addendum episode(Should come out next week), lemme cover what he can do on each mission type quickly.

Defense/Mobile defense/excavation/Kuva survival: Place small bubble(roughly 10-15 ft across) and stasis on target, refresh every 80 seconds or so if the point even needs that long. Gives complete immunity to damage unless effected by bugs or touched by an enemy that can nullify.

Assassination: Niche, but can do useful things on some bosses, mainly ambulus and Kela de thaym. He can place a mid-range cataclym on a hacked ambulus and prevent any enemies from getting near it to repair it. As for Kela, as I said in the video his cataclysm blocks off her orbital strike completely, so he can just turn it on for the duration of that attack, and then release. Like I said, it's niche, but solidly useful there.

Defection: Banish the NPC's and run to the exit. If it's on a low level mission, he might actually have to unbanish them and let them heal up at a point due to life support, but on higher level missions they don't care about the constant damage from the atmosphere, so he can just run them to the exit.

Survival/extermination: His weakest modes, but he does have some tricks here. That said, it's a bit more complex than I really want to get into in depth here, but basically he can life-steal tank his way through enemies up to level 100 content with the right build and a good enough melee, then swap to a ranged style if he ever gets in danger. I'm working on a full guide for the character that better explains this, but it's going to be rather in depth and take a bit to finish.

Interception: Block off the node completely, then go elsewhere. You shouldn't even notice having him on another point beyond the fact that enemies are dying, as he won't be using cataclysm, and he can watch his timers and go back to defend his area if they ever drop. It basically turns interception into a 3-node mission.

Capture: This mission type barely needs to be talked about, generally trivialized by anything, and speed can be best, but Limbo does have a trick here: he can capture from the void. So basically, step into the void next to a downed target and capture him and nothing can shoot or stop you unless they can drag you out of the void. That said, that's generally more useful for captures in the plains instead of the normal missions.

Rescue: There's basically two things I do here. First, I try to simply banish/stasis the wardens if I see them and there's not an ally in front of me, takes them off the map and since they're tanky it tends to save time and prevent people from being shot while hacking. Next, i banish the NPC and run to the exit. No NPC that Limbo's protecting should ever be at risk.

Sabotage: Hard to explain quickly, as there's too many variants of this mode. Some of them he really doesn't help, others like hive sabatage he can be useful(large bubble actually damages the tumor nodes, so he can just spam max-ranged bubble and take out all of the nodes without needing to search for them).

Spy: Activate stasis before going into an area, banish everything before they see you, including the cameras. Step into the rift and walk through all of the lasers and over all the mines. Either he doesn't know what he's doing, getting "help" from teammates, or he's successfully completing the objective within 30 seconds or so. The only thing that can realistically detect him are the camera's on kuva spy, and they're usually pretty easy to avoid.

 

Anyways, think that covers everything you mentioned. There's other things he can do too, but yeah, as I said at the start of the video: If it has an objective, he trivializes it, and usually, it's in a way that is either not really seen by other players(Spy/Interception. No reason for them to go to Limbo's points, they're taken care of), or is pretty unobtrusive, but strong, like banishing important NPC's and placing a small bubble on defense objectives. Hopefully this helps give you a better view of his capabilities.

[Saturmorn_Carvilli]

Here is the thing that people like the OP seem to forget.  While most of the player base doesn't actually know how Limbo works (or most frames for that matter so don't feel so special), those who go to the trouble of posting on a forum probably do. Even those players that don't know about it will usually be informed  in game by the messiah Limbo player or someone else in the squad who didn't abort right away.  Failing that, the player will probably just go to the wiki.

Limbo is on the higher end of knowing how to use your powers.  However, no warframe is calculus level difficulty to learn how to use their powers more like basic addition.  Limbo would be like double digit addition.  More difficult that most, but still not difficult.  Again, the reason most players don't know Limbo's powers is most of Warframe's player base only kinda knows the frames they actually have and almost nothing of the frames they don't.  Warframe is a fairly easy game, so it doesn't really require players to know all the ins and outs of even the frames the players use let alone the ones they are teamed up with.

That said, I completely agree that anything Limbo brings to the table can essentially be accomplished with another frame is a far less disruptive manner.  They may not completely lock down and area or have ways the enemies can ultimately breach the defenses, but they also don't stop allies from playing they want for nearly as much either.  The missions Limbo is best at turn them into waiting games.  For Mobile Defense all that is required is literally going from point to point and waiting.  There is absolutely no chance for failure at any point nor any reason to engage the enemy either.  Excavation is pretty much the same save you do actually have to kill some enemies to get batteries but can still do that in safety at the margins of the void.  I understand that some players just want to finish the mission and get on with what they were doing. With Limbo there is no need for other players, if that is how a player wants to accomplish it, they could easily go solo.  Just like if I encounter it, I abort most times since I want to play the mission even if it ups my chances of failure 0.1%.  Which is often another issue with Limbo players thinking they are carrying the squad who could just accomplish the mission without them anyways.  Most these missions are easy enough many players don't need any CC frame anyways.  I can do sortie level Mobile Defenses with Wukong and a polearm weapon just fine.

For all the talk of the dread Limbo Prime coming out, I still expect DE to re-work him.  Ultimately, I am not in favor of a nerf, but given that currently Limbo makes certain missions impossible to fail quite easily as the drawback of being disruptive to the squad, I see no way that a re-work can be done that won't be considered a nerf.  I am all for a Limbo re-work that doesn't shut ranged weapons of squad mates.  I would also be in favor of greatly reducing his 4 power's range which is usually the worst offender anyways.  I would even consider coming up with a way the enemy can actually breech Limbo's defense beyond have a nullifer to match other barrier frames who do often have their barriers compromised. I don't really mind how the re-work would be done for the most part, only that it makes Limbo more enjoyable to play as or with in a squad.

[-.SP.-G43riel]

Yeah a video telling limbo user HOW to play limbo would be better

Btw i used to like limbo more when his banish was a distance single targeting skill, limbo sniping build was great

1st stop using Dumb energy colors like Bright Green or Bright Yellow

2nd not everything needs stasis

3rd If you want to make a giant dome then.... 3.1 dont use stasis, the energy bonus from It already helps alone 3.2 dont use blinding energy colors

4th think about the team when using your skills

 

 

[Vanille]

8 hours ago, Starcanum said:

So where exactly is Limbo so detrimental that it warrants singling him out as a cancerous useless frame? It's far from limited to just the high level sorties.

He's not useless and I don't think anyone thinks that, in fact he's one of the most powerful frames, when done right. The issue is, what makes him powerful is overkill for anything not sortie-or higher-level. You don't need to be completely invincible for low-mid level content at all, and it comes with the tradeoff of being forced to use abilities only or melee, while there are other defensive frames that won't restrict other players that much, and the clear pace of low level mission stays the same regardless, except you get unhappy players that are forced with a gameplay style they don't like.

Edited May 29, 2018 by Kiwinille

[Oreades]

2 hours ago, HisokaXEveryone said:

Depends on how nice the Limbo is. As I point out in my guide, if he decides to be stubborn about stasis, you're going to run out of ammo before he runs out of energy.

Which is the exact reason that I focused my efforts into building the perfect anti-Limbo Cycron. Can't run out of ammo if your weapon regenerates all it's ammo in .5 seconds.

Admittedly I'm hopeful I won't have to use it...... but I'd rather be prepared.

Edited May 29, 2018 by Oreades

[Wind_Blade]

Another Bingo point 😄

25 : Limbo is misunderstood and you don't know how to use him (Even if he is good)

[Saturmorn_Carvilli]

1 hour ago, Wind_Blade said:

Another Bingo point 😄

25 : Limbo is misunderstood and you don't know how to use him (Even if he is good)

OMG! I am completely right about this and everyone is wrong if they disagree.  Am I the only smart person in this forum?  I could do a way better job that the devs even if they mean well (they do kinda suck).  Limbo and Excalibur Prime (so he can be brought back) need a mandatory re-work now to deal with the mandatory power creep in Warframe.  Because the RNG is truly abyssal.  I AM NOT SUPER OVER REACTING ABOUT THIS AS IT IS A MATTER OF ONLY EVERYTHING CONCERNING THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE!!!  If this isn't done, I will quit and let absolutely everyone know about it.  Especially since this game is totally pay to win.  This isn't just some random complaint here.  Limbo is completely misunderstood, however; he does need his powers nerfed but have his stats buffed like double of what they are now at the bare minimum because the otherwise it just proves how evil the Lotus actually is. This is the completely true lore of Warframe not just my own head cannon I have self inserted and ignored the parts that don't fit.  These are the objective facts and not just my opinion here.  Despite all of this I want to completely sincerely thank Digital Extremes.  Warframe is a great and can they doing awesomely amazing work there.

 

 

Edited May 29, 2018 by Saturmorn_Carvilli

[Starcanum]

6 minutes ago, Saturmorn_Carvilli said:

There you go, YOU ARE WINNER!

Now the only thing that's left is finding a conversation that stays civil and on-topic and.. oh no.

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

Limbo deserves about 90 percent of the salt he gets from other players. The 10 percent "not salt" is reserved for the minority, and that's what it is, the minority of limbo players who realize you don't need a football stadium sized rift to defend something in this game.

And honestly, "well if you knew how to work with limbo it wouldn't be an issue", is just a condescending opinion. Knowing how to make the best of a less than ideal situation doesn't mean it's less than ideal.

Why? Because none of the other frames can actively make parts of your loadout useless and while there are things like mesa, you don't get the courtesy of knowing you're goin to be matched with a troll main before you hit "start mission".

[Sickerton]

15 hours ago, (XB1)Evilpricetag said:

Scenario:

I want Mesa's passive of additional health while no melee is equipt. Enter game with large Cataclysm Limbo.

What do?

Mesa's Peacemakers ignore the Rift entirely, and entering the Rift gives you a passive energy restore to help you refuel it. It's actually a pretty effective setup to have a Limbo who can Banish Mesa, since Mesa gains 100% damage immunity from whatever's on the opposite side of the Rift barrier while giving her tools to go hog wild with her 4.

[Sickerton]

[Whoops, double post]

Edited May 29, 2018 by Sickerton

[(XBOX)Evilpricetag]

17 minutes ago, Sickerton said:

Mesa's Peacemakers ignore the Rift entirely, and entering the Rift gives you a passive energy restore to help you refuel it. It's actually a pretty effective setup to have a Limbo who can Banish Mesa, since Mesa gains 100% damage immunity from whatever's on the opposite side of the Rift barrier while giving her tools to go hog wild with her 4.

And when I'm out of energy I'm nearly 100% useless until my energy is fully restored, because of Limbo with a massive bubble in a small tileset in the first place. 

What about every player appropriately power leveling primary or secondary weapons on Hydronic. Aka only going in with a decent frame to level the weapon and there's a range Limbo (I know you Limbo mains know better, but this still happens) preventing me from killing properly, and  all the enemies are stuck at the edges even the best melee can't kill spread out enemies to catch up on that time loss, and now that we are spread out we are no longer receiving shared affinity.

And all I wanted to do is bring my 200% Rhino buff that makes even the worst guns one shot pretty much anything.

[Vanille]

The matter is not HOW to play with a limbo in your squad, but WHY. I'm pretty sure most people who complain about him know how to play inside a stasis cataclysm, it's just that they don't want to be forced to when they have other loadout choices unless you're in a premade and know beforehand that you'll have a Limbo in your squad and agree to work around him.

Edited May 30, 2018 by Kiwinille

[iuki.]

I don't mind limbo, but what I do mind is the trolls. Like a game I had earlier doing sortie 3 lephantis: had a limbo player who had max range/duration build....end result, we couldn't do anything while he sat there taunting us in chat. Me and the other 2 players had to quit which was a huge time waster. Now, these sorts are not that common but when they do show up, man do they give limbo a bad name. I just think limbo needs some tweaks to be more team friendly.

Edited May 30, 2018 by fizbit

[Drawer-san]

Wish I could change my avatar here so i dont get confuse with this Limbo feggs over here.

If you love Limbo, play solo. thats it.

Or is your "powerfull" frame not enough to deal with mission on its own?

Hisoka, your only good points is ur perseverance.

The "what he can do on each mission type" isnt a good response to "Other frames do better and more quick".

[-.SP.-G43riel]

12 minutes ago, Drawer-san said:

Wish I could change my avatar here so i dont get confuse with this Limbo feggs over here.

If you love Limbo, play solo. thats it.

Or is your "powerfull" frame not enough to deal with mission on its own?

Hisoka, your only good points is ur perseverance.

The "what he can do on each mission type" isnt a good response to "Other frames do better and more quick".

thats a bad argument which can be simply countered by
make your own squad instead of joining public games if you dont want "insert warframe name here" in your team.

[Tsardova]

It's sad that a frame has to have a dedicated thread on how others should play around it instead of on how to play it.... That's the most backwards logic way of making a frame more appealing/ approachable.

[Starcanum]

28 minutes ago, Tsardova said:

It's sad that a frame has to have a dedicated thread on how others should play around it instead of on how to play it.... That's the most backwards logic way of making a frame more appealing/ approachable.

There's a higher percentage of people who hate every Limbo they see without giving it a second thought than those who can't play Limbo, at least on this forum. So that logic doesn't seem that backwards at all.

[NocheLuz]

11 minutes ago, Starcanum said:

There's a higher percentage of people who hate every Limbo they see without giving it a second thought than those who can't play Limbo, at least on this forum. So that logic doesn't seem that backwards at all.

It's backward though... Like if you hate thief you should know how to live with them instead of trying to apprehend them? But Limbo is not a Thief!! you may argue but it's just a figure of speak. When you didn't bring Melee weapon with you (like me most of the time because I didn't install Len on my melee). Those who can't play Limbo well or not know how to adjust his ability will mostly make my range weapon useless. And I don't have Melee!! and I'm Rhino!! I just got rob of ability to fight normally!! how should I respond then? Oh, when I ask them to take it down they will still use it the second try feel like it... They even argue with me like don't tell them how to play... We should live with him... something along that line...

Well, as I state before I'm not hate Limbo. I like him. But when you trying to defend the player who can't play him well it really tick me off... I think there are higher percentage of player who can't play Limbo than player who hate him though... Because most of Sorties I do, squad member in PuG did stay in squad even they're couple with 1 or 2 Limbo.

[Tsardova]

2 hours ago, Starcanum said:

There's a higher percentage of people who hate every Limbo they see without giving it a second thought than those who can't play Limbo, at least on this forum. So that logic doesn't seem that backwards at all.

Source?

 

Be that as it may, the fact that it's gotten to the point where people are willing to admit Limbo's playstyle is disruptive as all hell is already indicative on how backwards thinking it is for people to play around a frame instead of with it.

 

Limbo's gimmicks are cool on paper, but it is the very definition of disruptive, forcing a change of pace and playstyle in the very minute manner constantly. There's no way where other frame can synergize with limbo's kit, it demands other frames/ players to play around it, it puts limitation to others' experience where there wouldn't be if Limbo wasn't there.

Limbo is never necessary to win a defense mission, or any other mission, but majority of limbo players I've ran into at hieracon act as if they are Jesus. Telling me off to another mining node or just sit and watch.

 

 

I've ran into my share of good Limbos and they do know when to stasis appropriate areas in a pinch, but the percentage of such a limbo player is extremely far and few in-between.

[Wind_Blade]

Il y a 18 heures, Kiwinille a dit :

The matter is not HOW to play with a limbo in your squad, but WHY. I'm pretty sure most people who complain about him know how to play inside a stasis cataclysm, it's just that they don't want to be forced to when they have other loadout choices unless you're in a premade and know beforehand that you'll have a Limbo in your squad and agree to work around him.

When i play limbo 90% of players don't even know what do limbo .... when i ask why they don't like him they say he just stop the bullet and do nothing else ... who is totaliy false (he do that but it's not the why we use stasie and the stasis do lot more things)

[HisokaXEveryone]

On 2018-05-29 at 10:08 AM, Saturmorn_Carvilli said:

Here is the thing that people like the OP seem to forget.  While most of the player base doesn't actually know how Limbo works (or most frames for that matter so don't feel so special), those who go to the trouble of posting on a forum probably do. Even those players that don't know about it will usually be informed  in game by the messiah Limbo player or someone else in the squad who didn't abort right away.  Failing that, the player will probably just go to the wiki.

Limbo is on the higher end of knowing how to use your powers.  However, no warframe is calculus level difficulty to learn how to use their powers more like basic addition.  Limbo would be like double digit addition.  More difficult that most, but still not difficult.  Again, the reason most players don't know Limbo's powers is most of Warframe's player base only kinda knows the frames they actually have and almost nothing of the frames they don't.  Warframe is a fairly easy game, so it doesn't really require players to know all the ins and outs of even the frames the players use let alone the ones they are teamed up with.

That said, I completely agree that anything Limbo brings to the table can essentially be accomplished with another frame is a far less disruptive manner.  They may not completely lock down and area or have ways the enemies can ultimately breach the defenses, but they also don't stop allies from playing they want for nearly as much either.  The missions Limbo is best at turn them into waiting games.  For Mobile Defense all that is required is literally going from point to point and waiting.  There is absolutely no chance for failure at any point nor any reason to engage the enemy either.  Excavation is pretty much the same save you do actually have to kill some enemies to get batteries but can still do that in safety at the margins of the void.  I understand that some players just want to finish the mission and get on with what they were doing. With Limbo there is no need for other players, if that is how a player wants to accomplish it, they could easily go solo.  Just like if I encounter it, I abort most times since I want to play the mission even if it ups my chances of failure 0.1%.  Which is often another issue with Limbo players thinking they are carrying the squad who could just accomplish the mission without them anyways.  Most these missions are easy enough many players don't need any CC frame anyways.  I can do sortie level Mobile Defenses with Wukong and a polearm weapon just fine.

For all the talk of the dread Limbo Prime coming out, I still expect DE to re-work him.  Ultimately, I am not in favor of a nerf, but given that currently Limbo makes certain missions impossible to fail quite easily as the drawback of being disruptive to the squad, I see no way that a re-work can be done that won't be considered a nerf.  I am all for a Limbo re-work that doesn't shut ranged weapons of squad mates.  I would also be in favor of greatly reducing his 4 power's range which is usually the worst offender anyways.  I would even consider coming up with a way the enemy can actually breech Limbo's defense beyond have a nullifer to match other barrier frames who do often have their barriers compromised. I don't really mind how the re-work would be done for the most part, only that it makes Limbo more enjoyable to play as or with in a squad.

First, this wasn't just posted on the forums. I put it on reddit and obviously youtube. Only reason it's on the forums is so that it can get attention and trigger discussion(And apparently people).

Second, the fact that Limbo is not super-complicated does not mean that guides showing what he is capable of and what other players can do when he's there have no value. Seriously, the worst case scenario with video's like this is that Limbo players can just share these videos with friends/new players who they want to play with, rather than having to explain this stuff themselves. You make it sound like having more information out there is a bad thing.

Third, the largest part of Limbo's seeming "problem" is due to all the large-bubble setups, which are awful, and honestly, I wish DE could find a way to suggest to players that big bubble isn't ideal. That said, if you're in a pug, and Limbo knows what he's doing you shouldn't really even notice that Limbo's on the field unless you step inside his cataclysm, which should be tiny, and only cover the objective. He "should" be quietly making it impossible to fail the mission by taking the objective off the map with a tiny cataclysm or banish.

Finally: there ARE some parts of Limbo that I would honestly like to gotten rid of for the sake of other players. Bullets shouldn't be stopped by the void, except maybe for Limbo himself, as once something is paralyzed for what is generally 20 seconds, it doesn't matter if it's killed by melee or not, there's nothing to stop it from dying. The portal on his roll should be removed from him in pve content, as it is almost never used intentionally by Limbo to get others into the void, and even if he did want them there, he's got cataclysm and banish, so it's just pointless and annoying. There should be some kind of way for players who are banished to know how to get out of the void without checking the wiki. And finally, considering how  troublesome he is, and that you basically need Narrow Minded just to make him acceptable to use in a pug, he shouldn't be given through a quest you can access at any MR, but rather at something like at least MR 10. 

But. None of that invalidates the points I'm trying to make about the current Limbo, or the value of any video's I make on him or working with him. Cause he's in the game, he's enjoyable, he does have value, whether you agree with it or not, and so people are going to play him. Trying to make him easier to work with, and trying to raise the community's knowledge of what he's capable of is not, in any way, a bad thing.

On 2018-05-29 at 10:42 AM, -.SP.-G43riel said:

Yeah a video telling limbo user HOW to play limbo would be better

Btw i used to like limbo more when his banish was a distance single targeting skill, limbo sniping build was great

1st stop using Dumb energy colors like Bright Green or Bright Yellow

2nd not everything needs stasis

3rd If you want to make a giant dome then.... 3.1 dont use stasis, the energy bonus from It already helps alone 3.2 dont use blinding energy colors

4th think about the team when using your skills

 

 

Videos on how to play limbo are in the works, but it's taking a bit, cause while you can dumb him down a lot by just saying "Do only this", I want to do a complete guide that covers things like how to clear nullifers, WHY you should generally prefer smaller bubbles, general rift etiquette(Yes, including stuff like colors), and more. Keep an eye on the channel, I've got a bit planned before that stuff comes out, and a couple of sortie-only mission varients I have to wait to record, but they're in the works. I just wanted the easier to make videos that can help the 95% of the community that don't play Limbo to come out first. 😄 

On 2018-05-29 at 11:34 AM, Kiwinille said:

He's not useless and I don't think anyone thinks that, in fact he's one of the most powerful frames, when done right. The issue is, what makes him powerful is overkill for anything not sortie-or higher-level. You don't need to be completely invincible for low-mid level content at all, and it comes with the tradeoff of being forced to use abilities only or melee, while there are other defensive frames that won't restrict other players that much, and the clear pace of low level mission stays the same regardless, except you get unhappy players that are forced with a gameplay style they don't like.

This. Though as I've said, a large part of the issue is that forcing large staticlysms on people feels awful for them, even though the reasoning behind it is fairly understandable. He really does become much easier for other players to tolerate when the bubble's only around the size of the defense coffin.

On 2018-05-29 at 12:04 PM, Oreades said:

Which is the exact reason that I focused my efforts into building the perfect anti-Limbo Cycron. Can't run out of ammo if your weapon regenerates all it's ammo in .5 seconds.

Admittedly I'm hopeful I won't have to use it...... but I'd rather be prepared.

>< Can't really counter that, though he can get energy back very fast with hunter adrenaline. Might just turn into a war of patience! 😄 

On 2018-05-29 at 2:23 PM, Starcanum said:

Now the only thing that's left is finding a conversation that stays civil and on-topic and.. oh no.

Civil? On topic? This is on a forum, and talking about Limbo of all things. You'd have better of finding that in a game of LoL! ><

20 hours ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

Limbo deserves about 90 percent of the salt he gets from other players. The 10 percent "not salt" is reserved for the minority, and that's what it is, the minority of limbo players who realize you don't need a football stadium sized rift to defend something in this game.

And honestly, "well if you knew how to work with limbo it wouldn't be an issue", is just a condescending opinion. Knowing how to make the best of a less than ideal situation doesn't mean it's less than ideal.

Why? Because none of the other frames can actively make parts of your loadout useless and while there are things like mesa, you don't get the courtesy of knowing you're goin to be matched with a troll main before you hit "start mission".

It's not condescending to offer information that might help players make their game easier, especially since they don't have to watch the videos(Though I'd hope they would). I'm not going to lie, not everything about Limbo is perfect. Just like how Roflcopters/ember/banshee/take your pick can make anything on the normal starchart rather boring for three other players. However, these video's offer ways around some of Limbo's problems, and until DE fixes the "issues" with his kit, it has value.

Also, just feel I need to point out: max-range kill everything AOE frames make your whole kit useless. 😄 

19 hours ago, fizbit said:

I don't mind limbo, but what I do mind is the trolls. Like a game I had earlier doing sortie 3 lephantis: had a limbo player who had max range/duration build....end result, we couldn't do anything while he sat there taunting us in chat. Me and the other 2 players had to quit which was a huge time waster. Now, these sorts are not that common but when they do show up, man do they give limbo a bad name. I just think limbo needs some tweaks to be more team friendly.

Yeah, Limbo has trolling potential. It's all over his kit, and it does not help his reputation. There's some thing's they can definitely remove, though I understand DE not really wanting to mess with him too much. There's stuff they COULD remove that would get rid of a lot of problems, but if they just removed every ability that has potential to troll people, it'd just mean removing his entire kit and passive. Hopefully some of the things in my first guide can help people deal with the troll Limbos, but beyond just telling people to dodge, that's about it.

19 hours ago, Drawer-san said:

Wish I could change my avatar here so i dont get confuse with this Limbo feggs over here.

If you love Limbo, play solo. thats it.

Or is your "powerfull" frame not enough to deal with mission on its own?

Hisoka, your only good points is ur perseverance.

The "what he can do on each mission type" isnt a good response to "Other frames do better and more quick".

While other frames can, yes, kill things faster, it's really hard to say any way of helping the objective is "better" than outright indestructibility.

19 hours ago, Tsardova said:

It's sad that a frame has to have a dedicated thread on how others should play around it instead of on how to play it.... That's the most backwards logic way of making a frame more appealing/ approachable.

Oh, a guide for him is coming, but this was faster to make and applies to more people. And yes, I admit it's unfortunate that it needs to exist, but I love Limbo, and I'd prefer to see him keep as much of his current self as possible if they ever do rework him.

18 hours ago, NocheLuz said:

It's backward though... Like if you hate thief you should know how to live with them instead of trying to apprehend them? But Limbo is not a Thief!! you may argue but it's just a figure of speak. When you didn't bring Melee weapon with you (like me most of the time because I didn't install Len on my melee). Those who can't play Limbo well or not know how to adjust his ability will mostly make my range weapon useless. And I don't have Melee!! and I'm Rhino!! I just got rob of ability to fight normally!! how should I respond then? Oh, when I ask them to take it down they will still use it the second try feel like it... They even argue with me like don't tell them how to play... We should live with him... something along that line...

Well, as I state before I'm not hate Limbo. I like him. But when you trying to defend the player who can't play him well it really tick me off... I think there are higher percentage of player who can't play Limbo than player who hate him though... Because most of Sorties I do, squad member in PuG did stay in squad even they're couple with 1 or 2 Limbo.

Like I said before, I don't like the people who play Limbo badly, I just fully understand why it's so easy for them to do so. I wish there was some way to convince people to just use only small bubbles, or better yet, to move the MR you need to access Limbo to a point where most players would have the mods/knowledge they need to play him intelligently. 

16 hours ago, Tsardova said:

Source?

 

Be that as it may, the fact that it's gotten to the point where people are willing to admit Limbo's playstyle is disruptive as all hell is already indicative on how backwards thinking it is for people to play around a frame instead of with it.

 

Limbo's gimmicks are cool on paper, but it is the very definition of disruptive, forcing a change of pace and playstyle in the very minute manner constantly. There's no way where other frame can synergize with limbo's kit, it demands other frames/ players to play around it, it puts limitation to others' experience where there wouldn't be if Limbo wasn't there.

Limbo is never necessary to win a defense mission, or any other mission, but majority of limbo players I've ran into at hieracon act as if they are Jesus. Telling me off to another mining node or just sit and watch.

 

 

I've ran into my share of good Limbos and they do know when to stasis appropriate areas in a pinch, but the percentage of such a limbo player is extremely far and few in-between.

On most maps, Limbo should NOT be changing gameplay much, at least not in pugs. Small bubble on defensive-type missions. Single target banish on certain NPCs. Occasional banish/stasis/murder on troublesome things like Bursa's. The problem is his potential to be troublesome is very easily accessed, while the build you really need to make him not a game-changing pain in the ass requires a rare mod from the orokin derilict.

1 hour ago, Wind_Blade said:

When i play limbo 90% of players don't even know what do limbo .... when i ask why they don't like him they say he just stop the bullet and do nothing else ... who is totaliy false (he do that but it's not the why we use stasie and the stasis do lot more things)

Aye, and that's what these guides were for, to try and give the community at large some kind of reference for what they can do around Limbo, and what he can do if played in a non-disruptive way. Not 100% sure I succeeded, but hopefully I helped a little.

[Oreades]

27 minutes ago, HisokaXEveryone said:

>< Can't really counter that, though he can get energy back very fast with hunter adrenaline. Might just turn into a war of patience! 😄 

More of a war of spite really 😛

I try to start off understanding but I can be real spiteful. As long as it doesn't actually threaten the mission I can see myself keeping it up as long as they do.