Differences between primes and Umbra [spoilers]

[Lockheed]

11 hours ago, Tricky5hift said:

Primes never mattered to begin with.

Primes absolutely mattered.

Primes were touted as "The first" and "The original" and "the best", speaking both lore wise and stat wise, this was pretty much always the case after they made the decision to have Primes be a general upgrade to their base counterparts.

Umbra goes directly against that. Between the mod issues, forma dumps that have happened to... pretty much every prime, stat changes on Excal umbra and differing effect vs sentients (radial howl wiping Sentient immunities clean, compared to "energy from a void ball, in which pretty much nobody goes in after it was made completely irrelevant").

11 hours ago, AtoKitsune said:

Excalibur Prime isn't about being the best, he's about being there.

While technically true, that doesn't mean there's not going to be salt about it - it's still kinda a blow to founders. Technically speaking, Excalibur Umbra is a prime in all but name. His stats are identical at base (though Umbra Exalted blade is better), effectively what they did was rip off the chinese excal prime (Which is exactly what it was) and give it to the entire playerbase for free. He is in every way, a direct upgrade to Excalibur - and is in fact better than Excalibur prime because of the minor change to his 2 and his Exalted Blade buff - the same way Nova Prime is a direct upgrade to Nova.

Excal needs to be brought up to par.

Edited June 15, 2018 by Lockheed

[puppycorpse]

19 minutes ago, OoKeNnEtHoO said:

You are fine with his body being regular excal with 2 stripes?

Even if they visually update Frost Prime, Rhino Prime, and all the other old primes in future?

Well, to each his own.

I am for this but I will not try to change your mind.

We will agree to disagree.

Idk I guess I just like it and in the same sense it reminds me of the good old beta days. I get people wanna rework for his cosmetics and that's fine. I just like the old body is all.

[ShogunGunshow]

Wait, you can't use forma to get the new polarity?

Doesn't that mean you kinda have to forma every single other slot to fit those in?

That's.... kinda bad.

[OoKeNnEtHoO]

Just now, ShogunGunshow said:

Wait, you can't use forma to get the new polarity?

Doesn't that mean you kinda have to forma every single other slot to fit those in?

That's.... kinda bad.

Yup.

Currently, the only frame that can pull off the 3 mod set bonus for 1.5x of what Vitality, Steel Fiber and Intensify can give is Umbra.

Not entirely sure if this is just missed out.

If they do add in the ability to forma that polarity in then all's good.

 

[(XBOX)Solargeo]

17 minutes ago, OoKeNnEtHoO said:

I am neutral on the helm issue though.

If they do it, I get to use another helm.

If they don't, I can live with it. I bought that helm because I liked its look. Still do but the newer ones are nicer.

This is my Excalibur Prime which nobody will ever know is one unless they look at my loadout.

On the issue of Excalibur Prime visual update however, it is because there have been proposals to update the old primes.

I am for that proposal but my addition to it is that Excalibur Prime shouldn't be excluded now that Umbra is already here.

So, that's my stand.

We will just agree to disagree.

Anyway, it is DE's decision not ours.

I say update all the old primes looks . even excal his prime is honestly stupid looking.

 

25 minutes ago, (PS4)lagrue said:

Not bullying, just sensible business. 

If you join me in my campaign for separation of function and fashion for Arcane Helmets, then I'll back your cause for Excal. P.

im going to be honest i kinda agree with the founder here. Excalibur Prime looks Horrible. most of the old primes need a bit of a touch up. so what if it eats up some resources . FASHION FRAME DEMANDS IT. some skins look heka better than the primes.

[puppycorpse]

1 minute ago, OoKeNnEtHoO said:

Yup.

Currently, the only frame that can pull off the 3 mod set bonus for 1.5x of what Vitality, Steel Fiber and Intensify can give is Umbra.

Not entirely sure if this is just missed out.

If they do add in the ability to forma that polarity in then all's good.

 

Looks like it may just be and umbra thing which isn't a bad thing cause other frames will eventually get umbras to.

[DomoSapien]

2 minutes ago, (XB1)Solargeo said:

I say update all the old primes looks . even excal his prime is honestly stupid looking.

Obviously subjective here, but you have to consider value lost.

 

The argument goes both ways. People want his looks updated because they feel his cosmetic value isn't up to par (Just because he is an exclusive doesn't mean he's devoid of treatment).

 

On the other hand, the hand I side with, the Orokin Key Helmet is extremely appealing and I have A LOT of value in it.

 

It's sort of a double-edged sword. One way, I can see the desire to update, if anything, his body because... I mean, there's a reason Excal Prime owners don't use it as much as other ones. However, conversely, it's ORIGINAL and how it was made by DE; the same people that granted us access to it. It's emblematic of a time past.

 

Perhaps I'm getting a little too personal with it, but just looking at the lore of Warframe through the lens of the quests, the story is all about history and the past. The change his body, no matter how unceremonious it is, is like erasing history.

[(PSN)N7_Dredgen]

6 minutes ago, puppycorpse said:

Looks like it may just be and umbra thing which isn't a bad thing cause other frames will eventually get umbras to.

are the mods not useable on all frames?  I was under the impression they were and only the actual polarities were restricted to it?

[(XBOX)Solargeo]

Just now, DomoSapien said:

Obviously subjective here, but you have to consider value lost.

 

The argument goes both ways. People want his looks updated because they feel his cosmetic value isn't up to par (Just because he is an exclusive doesn't mean he's devoid of treatment).

 

On the other hand, the hand I side with, the Orokin Key Helmet is extremely appealing and I have A LOT of value in it.

 

It's sort of a double-edged sword. One way, I can see the desire to update, if anything, his body because... I mean, there's a reason Excal Prime owners don't use it as much as other ones. However, conversely, it's ORIGINAL and how it was made by DE; the same people that granted us access to it. It's emblematic of a time past.

 

Perhaps I'm getting a little too personal with it, but just looking at the lore of Warframe through the lens of the quests, the story is all about history and the past. The change his body, no matter how unceremonious it is, is like erasing history.

make a skin for it. either make a skin for updating excali or update excal and give a skin of old prime.  and the other primes?

[OoKeNnEtHoO]

Just now, (PS4)lagrue said:

are the mods not useable on all frames?  I was under the impression they were and only the actual polarities were restricted to it?

They are usable but they cost obscene amounts of mod capacity.

Basically, using them without the polarity will not allow you to use 2 or 3 of them.

If you use only 1 of the mods, then there is no bonus and it is essentially same as Vitality, Steel Fiber or Intensify but with the Tau bonus.

[puppycorpse]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)lagrue said:

are the mods not useable on all frames?  I was under the impression they were and only the actual polarities were restricted to it?

So you can use the mods but u can get the polarities so there is a downside.

[The_Lunatic_]

2 hours ago, (PS4)lagrue said:

Not bullying, just sensible business.

This might surprise you, but, Video games are a creative endeavour, and as such, aren't entirely the cold hard world of profit.

DE has made it pretty clear they're willing to put passion before profit, you're telling them to go against that just to #*!% with Founders.

It would be "Sensible business" to add lootboxes and P2W aspects, DE doesn't do this because it'd piss off the existing player base.

[DomoSapien]

5 minutes ago, The_Lunatic_ said:

This might surprise you, but, Video games are a creative endeavour, and as such, aren't entirely the cold hard world of profit.

DE has made it pretty clear they're willing to put passion before profit, you're telling them to go against that just to #*!% with Founders.

It would be "Sensible business" to add lootboxes and P2W aspects, DE doesn't do this because it'd piss off the existing player base.

Daaaang. Truth bomb.

[OoKeNnEtHoO]

17 minutes ago, OoKeNnEtHoO said:

Frame vs Frame:

  Hide contents

Base stats

Base stats

Blade vs Blade

  Hide contents

Mods vs Mods (HP)

  Hide contents

With Bonus and at Rank 5: +420%

Without Bonus and at Rank 5: +240%

Regular at Rank 10: +440%

Mod vs Mod (Armor)

  Reveal hidden contents

With Bonus at rank 5 (+105%)

Without Bonus at rank 5 (+60%)

Regular mod at rank 10 (+110%)

Mod vs Mod (Power Strength)

  Reveal hidden contents

With bonus at rank 6 (+42%)

Without bonus at rank 6 (+28%)

Regular Mod at rank 5 (+30%)

 

Umbral Fiber (16 capacity cost):

+192.5% Armor

+11% Tau Resist

Umbral Vitality (16 capacity cost):

+770% Health

+11% Tau Resist

Umbral Intensify (16 capacity cost):

+66% Ability Strength

+11% Tau Resist

Edited June 15, 2018 by OoKeNnEtHoO

[-Krism-]

13 hours ago, Cleesus said:

Please remember to remain respectful and do not flame bait. 

Is a dabbing Valkyr considered flame bait? X)

[rune_me]

Okay, but Umbra's scarf totally clips through him in his resting stance. Do Excalibur Prime have any clipping parts? Because if no, then he is still superior.

[Cleesus]

1 hour ago, Xenox_Ilz-ot said:

Is a dabbing Valkyr considered flame bait? X)

Of course not  🙂

[Bigamo]

No point in updating Excal prime visuals, it is useless now. Why use Excal prime if Excal umbra is free and simply better at everything?

 I wanted it to be a sidegrade, not a downright replacement. For instance, Excal Prime having better blade and umbra having best finishers. Or Prime having better armor and Umbra having a better passive damage increase, making it more agressive and so. 

 I got really disapointed. Its like make Ryu and Ken in SF and giving then exactly the same stats. 😞

[(PSN)randy_lahey__--]

5 hours ago, Lockheed said:

Primes absolutely mattered.

Primes were touted as "The first" and "The original" and "the best", speaking both lore wise and stat wise, this was pretty much always the case after they made the decision to have Primes be a general upgrade to their base counterparts.

Umbra goes directly against that. Between the mod issues, forma dumps that have happened to... pretty much every prime, stat changes on Excal umbra and differing effect vs sentients (radial howl wiping Sentient immunities clean, compared to "energy from a void ball, in which pretty much nobody goes in after it was made completely irrelevant").

While technically true, that doesn't mean there's not going to be salt about it - it's still kinda a blow to founders. Technically speaking, Excalibur Umbra is a prime in all but name. His stats are identical at base (though Umbra Exalted blade is better), effectively what they did was rip off the chinese excal prime (Which is exactly what it was) and give it to the entire playerbase for free. He is in every way, a direct upgrade to Excalibur - and is in fact better than Excalibur prime because of the minor change to his 2 and his Exalted Blade buff - the same way Nova Prime is a direct upgrade to Nova.

Excal needs to be brought up to par.

Idk why he needs to hes a trophy frame. And lore wise it would not make sense to have exal prime have better stats. 

[Helch0rn]

17 hours ago, Vladimir said:

Exal prime's exalted blade > Umbra's blade stat wise

I call BS and demand proof

[Midas]

56 minutes ago, Helch0rn said:

I call BS and demand proof

As you wish.

Damage statistics are nearly doubled:

[Helch0rn]

1 minute ago, Vladimir said:

As you wish.

Damage statistics are nearly doubled:

your Excalibur Prime has mods on it that affect Exalted Blade. Get rid of them to see the real numbers

[Floockde]

5 minutes ago, Vladimir said:

As you wish.

Damage statistics are nearly doubled:

You probably have Power Strength on your frame. 

There was already a few post here that shows the stats of Primed/umbra blade having the same stats. 

Like this one here: 

[Midas]

2 minutes ago, Floockde said:

You probably have Power Strength on your frame. 

There was already a few post here that shows the stats of Primed/umbra blade having the same stats. 

Like this one here: 

Oh then yeah, it's a big slap in the face lol.

[The_Lunatic_]

2 hours ago, Vladimir said:

Oh then yeah, it's a big slap in the face lol.

The difference is pretty minor in the frames. Umbra is still better, but, it's not by a huge margin.

Umbra has two passives where as Excal has one.

Howl is probably better than Blind. But, that's kinda a situational one.