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Umbra is bad design.

swodaem

By swodaem,
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swodaem

swodaem

Posted
Posted

1. There is nothing new about umbra.

Its not a different excalibur, or a sidegrade, its just better.

2. Makes the value of primes worse/turns them to mastery fodder.

Why would someone grind for a prime only to have an umbra be much better? Sure all umbra is not out yet, but when they do start coming out why not just take the free easy to get umbra?

3. Its powercreep in the bad way. 

Its just creating a stronger version of another item.

4. Umbra had tons of potential that got wasted.

So mamy different ideas floating around and now they are just upgrades with a new look.

5. You are essentially given a better version of a prime for doing nothing. 

Here take this upgrade for your warframe. Don't worry about playing the game for rewards that have meaning, just do a short quest and take it.

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Lanadra

Lanadra

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2 minutes ago, swodaem said:

1. There is nothing new about umbra.

Yes there is, he's the first frame to be geared specifically towards combat against sentients, likely in preparation for sentient focused content to come.

2. Makes the value of primes worse/turns them to mastery fodder.

You're making baseless assumptions. You have no idea whether or not there will even be more Umbra frames. And even if there will be, you don't know whether or not they're going to be obtained exactly as Excal Umbra was. Which I rather doubt, I think they did it like this for Excal Umbra due to how long we've waited for him, as well as the hot topic of Excal Prime.

3. Its powercreep in the bad way. 

Powercreep is pretty much the norm in Warframe, always has been. Can't say I always appreciate it, but it is what it is.

4. Umbra had tons of potential that got wasted.

I'm pretty sure he was always going to be a different looking Excalibur with some new gimmicks.

5. You are essentially given a better version of a prime for doing nothing. 

Quite frankly, it was a refreshing change and I found it a pleasant surprise to not have to grind for once. Would I want it for future Umbra's? No.

-bleep-

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Echoes

Echoes

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Posted
hace 2 minutos, (PS4)LeBlingKing69 dijo:

Another angry Founder salty about his exclusive Warframe being outplayed by a Warframe that no one is forcing him to use.

Next.

But hey.. OP is right.

1. I was hoping for umbra to have another set of skills, thing that didn't happen.
2. Haven't use it a lot since I'm not fan of Excalibur, but I doubt it would make Prime ones fodder.
3. About the powercreep, the mods the Umbra has are worse and the actual Prime mods (except for that str mod)
4. Yeah, totally.
5. Nothing? Ah, now you are whining about that.

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swodaem

swodaem

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1 minute ago, Echoes said:

But hey.. OP is right.

1. I was hoping for umbra to have another set of skills, thing that didn't happen.
2. Haven't use it a lot since I'm not fan of Excalibur, but I doubt it would make Prime ones fodder.
3. About the powercreep, the mods the Umbra has are worse and the actual Prime mods (except for that str mod)
4. Yeah, totally.
5. Nothing? Ah, now you are whining about that.

This powercreep is the worst type. At least with new weapons or warframes you get a new experience. Umbra is the same exact thing with better mods.

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Beartornado

Beartornado

Posted
Posted (edited)

1. It needs some work but having a frame that distracts/ccs/fights enemies while you're using operator can be quite useful. Also Fashionframe is the lifeblood of this game, the fact that it looks different alone is good enough

2. This hasn't been an issue for mastery fodder weapons, this comes back around to fashionframe too. You know why people will bother with primes, you're just being facetious. DE isn't even going to make an Umbra for every frame if they decide to make more, they made that clear already.

3. Everything in warframe is powercreep the bad way. Warframe is the story of power creep out of control.

4. If you think the story we got out of Umbra was wasted then that's unfortunate for you. I expected nothing gameplay wise and still got more than that, what I was expecting was a good story and I got something great.

5. For how far you have to progress in this game to actually get to this point, it's quite a bit of work. We just don't see it because we've been here waiting for it to release, imagine how much lies before a fresh player to accomplish. To that end the quest is also difficult if you lack the gear, it makes a word of difference if you've had time to hoard power vs someone with still mostly vanilla mods and equipment.

Edited by Beartornado
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Lanadra

Lanadra

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6 minutes ago, Echoes said:

But hey.. OP is right.

1. I was hoping for umbra to have another set of skills, thing that didn't happen.
2. Haven't use it a lot since I'm not fan of Excalibur, but I doubt it would make Prime ones fodder.
3. About the powercreep, the mods the Umbra has are worse and the actual Prime mods (except for that str mod)
4. Yeah, totally.
5. Nothing? Ah, now you are whining about that.

They are designed for Sentient combat, their value and usefulness will likely change when content goes in that direction.

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peterc3

peterc3

Posted
Posted

Deja vu. I'm assuming the last one was deep sixed?

5 minutes ago, Echoes said:

1. I was hoping for umbra to have another set of skills, thing that didn't happen.

You were hoping that a frame variant was going to get a new set of abilities, something never mentioned nor supported by every other frame variant produced.

15 minutes ago, swodaem said:

So mamy different ideas floating around and now they are just upgrades with a new look.

Because every idea the community vomits out is great and DE should implement it?

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swodaem

swodaem

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2 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

Deja vu. I'm assuming the last one was deep sixed?

You were hoping that a frame variant was going to get a new set of abilities, something never mentioned nor supported by every other frame variant produced.

Because every idea the community vomits out is great and DE should implement it?

Actually DE said umbra could have different skills. Not sure when they said it, but someone can find it.

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Lanadra

Lanadra

Posted
Posted
Just now, swodaem said:

Actually DE said umbra could have different skills. Not sure when they said it, but someone can find it.

Well, you're saying it, soooo I'd say you should go find it to support your argument.

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Eldnacpeek

Eldnacpeek

Posted
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, swodaem said:

Actually DE said umbra could have different skills. Not sure when they said it, but someone can find it.

 

They didn't, sorry. It was just stated a few times that they don't want him to be "just a reskin". Some players interpreted this and every other message like it as "he will have entirely different abilities".

Edited by LazerSkink
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artemisfortune

artemisfortune

Posted
Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, (PS4)LeBlingKing69 said:

Another angry Founder salty about his exclusive Warframe being outplayed by a Warframe that no one is forcing him to use.

Next.

You're not very nice, are you?

Edit: Posts like this make me miss the downvote button.

Edited by Pent_
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Aeon94

Aeon94

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, swodaem said:

Actually DE said umbra could have different skills. Not sure when they said it, but someone can find it.

They have said there will be special mechanic TIED to Umbra , they never said they are gonna give him a whole new kit.

Maybe Sentient Arm Cannons will be available to Umbras ? Who knows?

Edited by Aeon94
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UrielColtan

UrielColtan

Posted
Posted

Power creep? Its just a prime with worse  prime mods under the Umbra theme, that suck in general without the whole set and have an inconvenient polarity that can only be used for those mods to boot, and you can't even forma to get the polarity back if you change your mind. 

 

The best thing about an Umbra is that they behave like a specter when you leave them.

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Aeon94

Aeon94

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, UrielColtan said:

Power creep? Its just a prime with worse  prime mods under the Umbra theme, that suck in general without the whole set and have an inconvenient polarity that can only be used for those mods to boot, and you can't even forma to get the polarity back if you change your mind. 

 

The best thing about an Umbra is that they behave like a specter when you leave them.

Free specter at best. :D

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artemisfortune

artemisfortune

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, UrielColtan said:

Power creep? Its just a prime with worse  prime mods under the Umbra theme, that suck in general without the whole set and have an inconvenient polarity that can only be used for those mods to boot, and you can't even forma to get the polarity back if you change your mind. 

 

The best thing about an Umbra is that they behave like a specter when you leave them.

With the Umbral mods maxed out he performs better than Excal Prime with his added passives. It's 100% power creep.

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Educated_Beast

Educated_Beast

Posted
Posted (edited)

It is a side grade.  Excal prime can fit higher damage mods / utility on both frame and exhaulted weapon.  

Umbra definitely has better defence mods, but who builds for defence?  One vitality mod is all you ever need, and even then, mostly not needed.  

Umbra is better versus sentients, prime is better versus all other factions.  The new mods < prime versions.

The passive on umbra requires you to lose exhaulted blade when return to frame.  It's a gimmick.  More damage if stay in frame woosh woosh wooshing.

Then again, versus sentients, it's a nice bonus.  

Definitely a side grade / specialty frame.  I love it, really cool.  Khora on the other hand, still farming for that crap.

 

Edited by Educated_Beast
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CoolDudeMcCool

CoolDudeMcCool

Posted
Posted

Warn DE against making future Umbras literally just better Primes.

Don't complain that Umbras are literally just better Primes. There's a difference. One is complaining, one is giving a suggestion for future content. Only one makes sense.

 We only have one Umbra so far, and he's a special case. Excalibur is special because he's the only frame without a Prime that won't get a Prime - that is, a Prime which is accessible to the general community. So giving him a second Prime in the form of Umbra is fine. We have no reason to think they'll do that for other frames.

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Educated_Beast

Educated_Beast

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2 minutes ago, Pent_ said:

With the Umbral mods maxed out he performs better than Excal Prime with his added passives. It's 100% power creep.

How?  More damage on frame, no.  Need all three mods to get the damage on intensify.  Regular intensify / transient fortitude better. 

Same with weapon mods.  Primed pressure point + elemental mod give more damage.  Especially when use chromatic blade.  

Better defence, yeah but so what.  It's overkill.  One vitality mod is all you ever need, if that much.  

Umbra will be vastly better at sentients when we get that material.  Umbra is a bane frame.

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