Option to vote kick players

[Alaeacus]

1 minute ago, Ryim_Drykeon said:

I chimed in because this is an old, rehashed topic. Also, if you think not a single online game has problems with vote-kick, then you need to do more research. I'm not doing it for you, regardless of any "challenge". If you wish to take that as my opinion is "worthless", so be it.

Lastly, if you actually want to get such a system in place, come up with as detailed an idea as you can, and then put it in FEEDBACK, since devs don't read General much and things just go to pot here anyway.

I thought so. "Research" is a search for facts. It is fact that it has never been a widespread problem, or cause of epidemic, in an online game by virtue of your inability to find evidence supporting your claim. Thus, your argument holds no weight.

[Ryim_Drykeon]

Just now, AlMcFly said:

I thought so. "Research" is a search for facts. It is fact that it has never been a widespread problem, or cause of epidemic, in an online game by virtue of your inability to find evidence supporting your claim. Thus, your argument holds no weight.

Okay.

[Zimzala]

The incredible civility and reasonable discourse within just this thread shows how much repect and patience players have for each other...

The level of love/hate about the topic alone is enough to keep any sane developer from even discussing it for fear of getting fired.

Unless it can be fiscally/reputationally proven not having said mechanic is losing money/players of the game, then why add any mechanic that is surrounded by such irrational emotion and crazy theories on boths sides of the argument?

We can all post all day long about our individual anecdotal encounters, they don't mean jack.

IME, playing online since MUDs, vote-kick for anything other than link problems or similar is a fraction of the times I have seen it used.

IME, vote kick is used by elitist trolls that think they own the games they play 'better' than everyone else.

Not the right meta? Kick. Not the right ...? Kick. Our fourth friend showed up...Kick.

Again, my singular experience means nothing, but if I had a vote, it would be No, because I hate the elitists that try to make a game turn into work and then try and force everyone lese to play that way.

Personally, I have played _this_ game about 4 days now and I have not yet even ventured beyond solo mode, so the community here could be excellent to each other, I have no idea, other than the glorious forums we are interacting on now.

In general, I take personal responcibility, so I simple leave online groups that are causing me to have an unpleasant experience during my super-happy-fun-times playing video games. 

Life is too short to entertain jerks, be they trolls, elitists, or just pushy-busy-bodies.

Play your way, mine is just to drop out and/or put the jerks on ignore, especially the ones yelling about having to 'carry' someone not as awesome as they are.

[Alaeacus]

10 minutes ago, MajorPrankster said:

The incredible civility and reasonable discourse within just this thread shows how much repect and patience players have for each other...

The level of love/hate about the topic alone is enough to keep any sane developer from even discussing it for fear of getting fired.

Unless it can be fiscally/reputationally proven not having said mechanic is losing money/players of the game, then why add any mechanic that is surrounded by such irrational emotion and crazy theories on boths sides of the argument?

We can all post all day long about our individual anecdotal encounters, they don't mean jack.

IME, playing online since MUDs, vote-kick for anything other than link problems or similar is a fraction of the times I have seen it used.

IME, vote kick is used by elitist trolls that think they own the games they play 'better' than everyone else.

Not the right meta? Kick. Not the right ...? Kick. Our fourth friend showed up...Kick.

Again, my singular experience means nothing, but if I had a vote, it would be No, because I hate the elitists that try to make a game turn into work and then try and force everyone lese to play that way.

Personally, I have played _this_ game about 4 days now and I have not yet even ventured beyond solo mode, so the community here could be excellent to each other, I have no idea, other than the glorious forums we are interacting on now.

In general, I take personal responcibility, so I simple leave online groups that are causing me to have an unpleasant experience during my super-happy-fun-times playing video games. 

Life is too short to entertain jerks, be they trolls, elitists, or just pushy-busy-bodies.

Play your way, mine is just to drop out and/or put the jerks on ignore, especially the ones yelling about having to 'carry' someone not as awesome as they are.

I like this post, despite it not agreeing with me. 

I just want to point out, nobody is saying "Leeching is a problem, even though I can solo this mission."  Personally I barely even notice if I am playing a mission that is so easy, it's laughable.  I am saying "Leeching is a major problem when you NEED someone contributing."  THAT is when it becomes infuriating.  Not everyone in the game is godlike.  When a PUG teammate and I are a Defense Mission with enemies all level 100+, and through cheese-tactics I get chain-Bombarded or chain-Imbalanced until my health drops due to some Crit proc.  I immediately start looking around for the location of the teammate I haven't seen for the last five minutes, only to see they are 300m away hiding behind some pillar not moving, while our Defense target is quickly losing health due to being attacked...needless to say it gets INFURIATING.  

To use your own phrasing, IME, I see a leeching teammate at least once every single night of the week.  During events, 50% of every PUG has a leeching teammate.  Just because it isn't always a problem, doesn't mean we should be accepting of the behavior this encourages.  

[CupcakesMoo]

Also we don't need this cancer ruining the Pug Army. Learn to use recruit chat. 

[Alaeacus]

4 minutes ago, CupcakesMoo said:

Also we don't need this cancer ruining the Pug Army. Learn to use recruit chat. 

You don't want me asking if you're planning to contribute the team in a Bounty after I've watched you fish for the last five minutes 400m away from the Bounty target?  Okay.  /s

[JuanS]

A troll weapon, remember when we were able to downvote on forum? guess why it was removed.

[LupisV0lk]

1 minute ago, AlMcFly said:

You don't want me asking if you're planning to contribute the team in a Bounty after I've watched you fish for the last five minutes 400m away from the Bounty target?  Okay.  /s

Rather have that than some snowflake kicking people because they don't like their choice of warframe.

[LupisV0lk]

1 minute ago, JuanS said:

A troll weapon, remember when we were able to downvote on forum? guess why it was removed.

Because it was totes McGoats used in the correct and proper manner right? /S

[Alaeacus]

1 minute ago, LupisV0lk said:

Rather have that than some snowflake kicking people because they don't like their choice of warframe.

A "vote" kick usually requires three snowflakes kicking people because they don't like your warframe.  If you got into a three-person snowflake group, they are doing you a favor by kicking you.  

[LupisV0lk]

Just now, AlMcFly said:

A "vote" kick usually requires three snowflakes kicking people because they don't like your warframe.  If you got into a three-person snowflake group, they are doing you a favor by kicking you.  

....Yeah and? Have you seen what the forum/community does when Limbo is mentioned? Yeah the game would be better off with power not given to those people.

[Alaeacus]

Just now, LupisV0lk said:

....Yeah and? Have you seen what the forum/community does when Limbo is mentioned? Yeah the game would be better off with power not given to those people.

Yep.  I've seen what the forum community has done.  When they made the NECESSARY change to Limbo, the vast majority of the forum community immediately said "Thanks, I appreciate Limbo now."  Are you saying that when a majority of players are continuously grievanced by a single Warframe ability, DE should be ignoring all those player's grievances?  You may want to rethink your stance on that thought.  

[LupisV0lk]

Just now, AlMcFly said:

Yep.  I've seen what the forum community has done.  When they made the NECESSARY change to Limbo, the vast majority of the forum community immediately said "Thanks, I appreciate Limbo now."  Are you saying that when a majority of players are continuously grievanced by a single Warframe ability, DE should be ignoring all those player's grievances?  You may want to rethink your stance on that thought.  

When people outright discriminate against a single frame that in the grand scheme of things is the least offending frame, then yes DE should ignore them.

People still are triggered by Limbo even after DE did the much needed fix.

[Zimzala]

3 minutes ago, AlMcFly said:

I like this post, despite it not agreeing with me. 

I just want to point out, nobody is saying "Leeching is a problem, even though I can solo this mission."  Personally I barely even notice if I am playing a mission that is so easy, it's laughable.  I am saying "Leeching is a major problem when you NEED someone contributing."  THAT is when it becomes infuriating.  Not everyone in the game is godlike.  When a PUG teammate and I are a Defense Mission with enemies all level 100+, and through cheese-tactics I get chain-Bombarded or chain-Imbalanced until my health drops due to some Crit proc.  I immediately start looking around for the location of the teammate I haven't seen for the last five minutes, only to see they are 300m away hiding behind some pillar not moving, while our Defense target is quickly losing health due to being attacked...needless to say it gets INFURIATING.  

To use your own phrasing, IME, I see a leeching teammate at least once every single night of the week.  During events, 50% of every PUG has a leeching teammate.  Just because it isn't always a problem, doesn't mean we should be accepting of the behavior this encourages.  

While I empathize with your outlook, my own brain chemistry is such that what seems to 'infuriate' you and other gamers simply has no noticable negative impact on my emotional state.

I just don't care in the way some people seem to be wired to get emotionally impacted by these things.

I simply put the bad player on ignore or whatever, finish the mission if I/we can and drop if not.

Just being completely and totally honest here.

If I allowed the actions or inactions of other players in the games I play to influence my emotional state, I would never be able to begin to deal with the rest of life in a rational manner. In my personal opinion, it is simply unhealthy to become attached to the events in a video game at that level.

In this specicifc case, I see the tool in question to be one more used by overly-invested players _in the long run_ which is the _real_ issue.

Sure, at the start, since if we go with the claim there are so many AFKers, they get kicked/blacklisted/whatever.

Then what?

After the initial wave of potentially changing the player-base, still a stretch based on anecdotal evidence, and the AFKers have been dealt with...we are back to a tool that gets used more by elitists than people just playing the game who _might_ be reasonable enought to only kick for the right reasons?

Now we hacked off some portion of the playerbase because some people thought they were leeches...

Now we hack off the players still learning/trying/casually playing/etc. because (even a few) elitists start using the tool, propagating the whole 'play the meta or GTFO' game.

So, vote kick is, IMO/E, just another mechanism for overly-invested people to make other play 'thier way'.

IMO, any of the right reasons to kick or remove rewards can be done programatically, because I have played those games...

Allowing the Internet Warriors another tools is just not on my todo list... 🙂 

If there was no way to make private groups, then perhaps, since there was no other way, but not is not the case here.

[Alaeacus]

10 minutes ago, LupisV0lk said:

When people outright discriminate against a single frame that in the grand scheme of things is the least offending frame, then yes DE should ignore them.

The highlighted portion above in red is your personal opinion.  Hundreds of forum posters over months disagree with your opinion.  DE will not ignore hundreds and hundreds of complaints about a single warframe, just because you personally do not think they are the worst offender.  If there was a worse offender, there would be hundreds of people complaining about THAT warframe.  There aren't, so there isn't.  Fact.  

11 minutes ago, MajorPrankster said:

Just being completely and totally honest here.

If I allowed the actions or inactions of other players in the games I play to influence my emotional state, I would never be able to begin to deal with the rest of life in a rational manner. In my personal opinion, it is simply unhealthy to become attached to the events in a video game at that level.

Please.  Do not be that cliche internet person who implies someone being "bothered" by something must not function properly in real life.  Appeal to Emotion implying that this is affecting my emotional state, therefore my argument is subject to question.  A bit of Ad Hominem for trying to use my reaction as a person to detract from position formulated from my own personal point of view.  Also, likely Hypocritical or Dishonest for trying to convince your internet audience that you've never once been frustrated or angry at a single thing in videogames, thus your "brain chemistry" is superior to mine in question.  Give me a break.  

Is that a successful tactic?  When talking to a friend in real life, do you say "Bro, how do you even function in your day to day life if you get angry after stubbing your toe?!? Personally I don't get angry over that, so you probably shouldn't."  it implies that nobody should be angry about the things you care little for.  It's arrogant and purposefully disparaging to other's viewpoints.  Not to mention detracting from the topic at hand.  

[Zimzala]

2 hours ago, AlMcFly said:

Please.  Do not be that cliche internet person who implies someone being "bothered" by something must not function properly in real life.  Appeal to Emotion implying that this is affecting my emotional state, therefore my argument is subject to question.  A bit of Ad Hominem for trying to use my reaction as a person to detract from position formulated from my own personal point of view.  Also, likely Hypocritical or Dishonest for trying to convince your internet audience that you've never once been frustrated or angry at a single thing in videogames, thus your "brain chemistry" is superior to mine in question.  Give me a break.  

Is that a successful tactic?  When talking to a friend in real life, do you say "Bro, how do you even function in your day to day life if you get angry after stubbing your toe?!? Personally I don't get angry over that, so you probably shouldn't."  it implies that nobody should be angry about the things you care little for.  It's arrogant and purposefully disparaging to other's viewpoints.  Not to mention detracting from the topic at hand.  

Not a tactic, not a ploy, just my honest outlook.

IMO, some people take these things too seriously, even when they have the tools at hand to mitigate the terrors of having to game with people not good enough for them.

IMO, there is a huge difference in having frustration at mission gone awry, I think you said 1 once day, and advocating vote kick to change the game.

I am arguing the reason for adding a vote kick is an emotional response to an emotional outlook that I do not share.

You find that to be abhorrent. OK.

[Alaeacus]

23 minutes ago, MajorPrankster said:

I am arguing the reason for adding a vote kick is an emotional response to an emotional outlook that I do not share.

And I'm arguing "The Sky would Fall" rhetoric for NOT instituting a vote-kick system is part of the problem.  I can't think of a single online game that doesn't have a vote-kick system.  People still try to ruin matches, but players then have the tools to combat trolls.  In Warframe, I see leeches and rude people every single day not participating in missions.  These so-called "elitist-boogeymen" you worry about.  It only occurs in recruitment chat, and nobody wants to join them anyway.  It's just a myth you've all convinced yourself will happen, even though it barely ever happens in the 30 - 40 other online games on the market.  Warframe is actually in the minority of Coop online games that doesn't have this protection for groups.  

But far be it from me to poke any holes in your irrational paranoia.  You see how little people care about leeching right?  Do you honestly think people will care enough to band together with strangers and vote a party member out just for his choice of warframe?  You are nuts.  People are way too lazy for that.  Maybe if an MR5 tries to jump into a Tridolon hunt, but those nooblets deserve to be vote-kicked unless they ask super super nice for the carry.  Don't jump into sh*t you can't possibly be ready for and expect to be carried or leech.  

P.S.  The vast majority of leeches I have seen are usually MR 24+.  Disgruntled scumbags who feel they have played long enough to have entitlement.  Or maybe they're just bots (but they usually have something smart @ssed to say, so I don't think so).  

Edited July 13, 2018 by AlMcFly

[CupcakesMoo]

I will go above all of you and blindly disagree. I say we should go ahead and add vote kicking because I'm bored and want to see what will happen. 

[Ouinpis]

well I hate to talk about of MR cuz a MAN DOWN needs help 0 MR or 25 MR.All equal to me

yes MR 24 you all talk about can be obtain in between 700~800 hours with optimized time.lol

got 7.5k hours in game.MR25 didn't do test cuz in last year I lost interest I have nada to prouve and even less to be proud about.I just played

Soo Poe is a time gate for those efficient players and  youtuber .feel sad for them

but having to compare warframe to other games to obtain a kick\vote or ban or any other needs.Is typical from peoples that just want to run fast and play other game

I will revive all regardless if you called them AFKER or Leeches.PoE is issue for some,Soo be it.Its DE job to look at PoE if ppl cry soo much

and leave regular warframe.Its just like Sortie revisited complain.you want you arcane work for it

 

[PorkedPork]

Just host your own games.

[Zimzala]

 

12 hours ago, AlMcFly said:

And I'm arguing "The Sky would Fall" rhetoric for NOT instituting a vote-kick system is part of the problem.  I can't think of a single online game that doesn't have a vote-kick system.  People still try to ruin matches, but players then have the tools to combat trolls.  In Warframe, I see leeches and rude people every single day not participating in missions.  These so-called "elitist-boogeymen" you worry about.  It only occurs in recruitment chat, and nobody wants to join them anyway.  It's just a myth you've all convinced yourself will happen, even though it barely ever happens in the 30 - 40 other online games on the market.  Warframe is actually in the minority of Coop online games that doesn't have this protection for groups.  

But far be it from me to poke any holes in your irrational paranoia.  You see how little people care about leeching right?  Do you honestly think people will care enough to band together with strangers and vote a party member out just for his choice of warframe?  You are nuts.  People are way too lazy for that.  Maybe if an MR5 tries to jump into a Tridolon hunt, but those nooblets deserve to be vote-kicked unless they ask super super nice for the carry.  Don't jump into sh*t you can't possibly be ready for and expect to be carried or leech.  

P.S.  The vast majority of leeches I have seen are usually MR 24+.  Disgruntled scumbags who feel they have played long enough to have entitlement.  Or maybe they're just bots (but they usually have something smart @ssed to say, so I don't think so).  

I am not saying the sky will fall, at all, you are the one running with the emotions

You even state there are elitist players.

Giving elitists and trolls and tools another tool is just a bad idea.

You speek in terms of leeches and nooblets, so in my mind, you are an elitist and part of the problem.

No paranoid brain chemistry on this one - I simply think you and people like you ruin games and I oppose your emotional outlook on the matter.

 

[Alaeacus]

1 hour ago, MajorPrankster said:

You speek in terms of leeches and nooblets, so in my mind, you are an elitist and part of the problem.

*Speak.  I am a nooblet.  The word nooblet is not something only reserved for so-called "elitists" to use.  

1 hour ago, MajorPrankster said:

No paranoid brain chemistry on this one - I simply think you and people like you ruin games and I oppose your emotional outlook on the matter.

Ironically, the only person here continually committing Appeal to Emotion fallacies is yourself, with your incessant attempt to devalue my arguments by implying I am not in a rational state of mind (ie: emotional).  The support for my arguments are cogent and so far, you're more concerned with trying to convince this forum that you are "so unemotional" than actually talk to my argument points.  

Also, you're derailing the topic trying to defend your personal emotionless honor.  I've given my opinion, and you've given yours.  Let's leave it for others to decide whose arguments are most salient.  

[Zimzala]

4 minutes ago, AlMcFly said:

*Speak.  I am a nooblet.  The word nooblet is not something only reserved for so-called "elitists" to use.  

Ironically, the only person here continually committing Appeal to Emotion fallacies is yourself, with your incessant attempt to devalue my arguments by implying I am not in a rational state of mind (ie: emotional).  The support for my arguments are cogent and so far, you're more concerned with trying to convince this forum that you are "so unemotional" than actually talk to my argument points.  

Also, you're derailing the topic trying to defend your personal emotionless honor.  I've given my opinion, and you've given yours.  Let's leave it for others to decide whose arguments are most salient.  

The entire vote-kick methodology is steeped in an emotional outlook, not a logic one.

Humans use emotions to make subjective choices.

Vote-Kick is based around the group of players subjectively judging other players worth and value, which IMO is also elitist.

If the abusing AFK and other issues reach a point that DE thinks it should act, there are numerous technical additions that could address the designated abusive playstyles, without allowing the human players to judge other players.

IME, most of the systems put in place do little to counter abuse, because people suck.

Vote-kick is not mechanic based on logic, it is a mechanic based on human emotional outlook at other humans.

One can have perfectly logic arguments to support and/or counter an emotional reponce.

I am saying that the vote-kick option is emotipn based, not that all of the arguments for ar against it are, or that allo fthe poeple for or against it are only using emotional thinking.

The vote-kick mechanism itself is an emotional based solution to the percieved problem.

There are, IMO, better, more effective solutions than vote kick, and I will post that opinion when I where I choose, with and without misspelling stuff. 🙂

[bagelsan]

Vote kicking will lead to massive trolling. Very bad idea.

[Obviousclone]

One of my personal favourite games to play is this game called Helldivers.

 

The reason this game is relevant is because it's a 4 player online co-op twin stick shooter. It's sci-fi futuristic, you fight 3 factions, and it's horde based so you'll kill a lot. But the unique highlight of the game are these tools you can use that are called "strategems" which are like abilities except they're deployed and fully customizable unlike warframe where you are locked to specific abilities per warframe (So you can do things like summon vehicles, rez teammates, summon ammo/weapons, call in airstrikes, call in turrets/landmines). The main reason I bring this game up is because it has votekicking (and because it's a co-op hordeshooter).

AFAIK the lobbies are also by default pub-based so it's very easy to hop into someone elses match. The main host of the lobby has full authority on kicking.

What's also important to understand about this game and one of the very big distinctions is this game ALWAYS has friendly fire enabled (the game was made by the same devs of Magicka btw, which is reknown for it's hilarious friendly fire antics). You can shoot your teammates, you can summon a tank that lands on your teammates which instakills them. You can deploy a strafing run that mows down your allies just as easily as the enemy. You can set their ATV that they deployed, on fire and then pick up the gun that they summoned. You can, for all intents and purposes, troll. At any time, anywhere, you can just turn.

 

But the thing is, is that the host has full authority on kicking, and trust me when I say that the only time I've ever been kicked was when I friendly fired like 5+ times a match for like 3 matches.

And let me point out that I have literally entered lobbies with extremely troll loadouts, like running 4 strafing runs (aka a full loadout of strafing runs) and people literally did not care. I did not get kicked from those lobbies.

 

From those experiences playing this game, I am extremely doubtful that people will be abusing the votekick in warframe especially since if they were being selective and cared about which players using which gear joined their squads, they would set their games to private/invite only.