Vauban is too squishy for his looks

[SlicerGT]

Even the cat_lady_frame has more armor than this wimp. I understand that Kora is a bit less effective at CC, but she deals quite a decent ammount of damage as well. Vauban does almost nothing.

Either increase his armor please, or give him defensive 2nd ability instead of current one and make balls switching by holding key 1

PS. And think about making some of his augments to be exilus compatible. Actualy, not only Vauban's, but for Ash, Valkyr, Atlas and so on. At least some of their augments.

Edited August 10, 2018 by SlicerGT

[kyori]

Yes his new deluxe looked like a tank knight but his armor really laughable. 

Khora can cc + dealt damage way better than Vauban imo. 

[PsiWarp]

Looks can be deceiving, as under that thin armor plating is probably a factory and storage space for his spherical devices.

[Stormandreas]

Ye, no thanks.

Vaubans CC is some of the best in the entire game. Having him tankier would just make things extremely trivial when using him. The point of him being squishy is so that you HAVE to use the CC to stay alive

[SlicerGT]

Of course, he doesnt need to become a new Rhino, just a small tweak to improve his survivability to Kora's level, for example.

Then it would be fair, in my opinion. And logical, considering Vaubans apearance.

No damage, but more crowd control.

Especialy when sometimes leaderboard can make me think that Kora is a damage dealing frame and not a CC unit.

Edited August 10, 2018 by SlicerGT

[SlicerGT]

Del

Edited August 10, 2018 by SlicerGT

[Birdframe_Prime]

Eh, the thing for me is that Warframe has so many ways to stay alive, CC being at the foremost of it. If a frame has enough quality CC (depending on the mechanical ability to prevent Damage) then they could be one-shot by a butterfly and it wouldn't matter because I'd be pre-casting to prevent it happening.

Plus I like going to levels where the relative difference in base armour genuinely means nothing, unless you're a frame where modding in extra Armour brings you to high levels of damage reduction anyway (like Valkyr Prime), meaning you can go a little further before the damage becomes problematic.

Some of the most fun frames in the game have incredibly low armour, Ash, Banshee, Ivara, Limbo, Zephyr, Loki, Mag, Mesa, Titania, Nova, Nekros, Mirage, Nyx, Volt, Trinity... If Volt Prime has the same armour as Vauban Prime, then that's good enough for me. Let the cat lady have more, it makes up for her CC on her 2 being fairly slow and on her 4 being a little inconsistent in targeting.

I mean, heck, Valkyr looks like she's got no armour at all, and she has the two highest stats in the game for it (600 for her and 700 for her Prime at base). So if we were going on looks alone... none of this would really work.

44 minutes ago, SlicerGT said:

PS. And think about making some of his augments to be exilus compatible. Actualy, not only Vauban's, but for Ash, Valkyr, Atlas and so on. At least some of their augments.

Just to be clear about this, because I see a lot of newer players asking about the topic, DE have clarified exactly why so few Augments are in the Exilus slot.

Any Augment that changes what the base ability does, in terms of damage, affect on enemy, stats or anything else, costs a regular mod slot. Any Augment that does not affect the ability and only adds movement to the Warframe itself goes in the Exilus.

Thus you see that the only Exilus Augments are: Escape Velocity, adds movement speed to Nova on exiting a Warp, does not change anything about Warp; Hysterical Assault, adds a dash-to-target to Valkyr while using Hysteria, does not change anything about Hysteria itself; and Mesa's Waltz, allows Mesa to walk around while in Peacemaker, does not change any other part of Peacemaker.

Augments that do similar things, like Nyx's Assimilate augment, allowing Nyx to walk, use weapons and so on while in Absorb, also changes up how Absorb functions, limiting the physical range of the orb and adjusting what damage can charge up her bubble, meaning different ability costs and functions. That's why it doesn't appear in the Exilus.

Even the really simple sounding ones, as long as they're changing something about the ability, cost a mod slot. That's the current rule. If DE change it again in the future, we can talk about which ones qualify for that change, make big discussion threads about which ones should and shouldn't be in the Exilus based on their relative power for the Warframe. Until then, however, rule stands; pure movement ones go in the Exilus, everything else doesn't.

[Toran]

Si c'est bon, ce n'est pas Vauban!

Since Khora's introduction Vauban has become obsolete to me. Having a huge area covered by two Strangledomes holding up to 52 Enemies while increasing damage from all sources on them by 200% and giving them a DoT on top, beats the out of Monsieur Vauban's Bastilles. Oh la la!

In comparison, Vauban's new passive is but un affront, sacre bleu! Lèche mon ridicul! The Vauban rework is far from impressive, a bit more armour as compensation wouldn't have hurt.

Edited August 10, 2018 by Toran

[Birdframe_Prime]

12 minutes ago, Toran said:

The Vauban rework is far from impressive

Ah, mon amis, but this is where you are mistaken!

This is not the Vauban rework, this was supposed to be a small tweak to him to see if people liked it. The Vauban rework may, or may not be coming yet. But this was not a rework.

[Sahansral]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb Stormandreas:

Ye, no thanks.

Vaubans CC is some of the best in the entire game. Having him tankier would just make things extremely trivial when using him. The point of him being squishy is so that you HAVE to use the CC to stay alive

High-range Khora wants to have a word with you...

Vauban's kit is outdated and redundant. It's CC on top of CC on top of CC. Long time ago when CC was king that meant that a frame had to bad in all other aspects.

But it's 2018. Frames with incredible tankiness and suberb damage potential now get good CC, too. Time to overthink old paradigms and adjust.

[GPrime96]

4 hours ago, Thaylien said:

I mean, heck, Valkyr looks like she's got no armour at all, and she has the two highest stats in the game for it (600 for her and 700 for her Prime at base).

Compare to other tanks, she do look like it but it makes sense for her because Berserkers are Bear Warriors, they fight with no armor on. Even though Rhino have less than 3x less Armor, his Iron Skin keeps him Tanky since that ability prevents Rhino from taking damage. Valkyr is all Armor and Invinibility so outside of Hysteria, all of the damage that she takes is transferred to her health. But the “No Armor” part of her is only Noticeable at high level.

[Paradoxbomb]

If they were to give Vauban an EHP buff, I'd personally rather more shields than armor. Given his high-tech/engineer theme I feel like it be fitting for him to have high-quality shielding, and self-replenishing shields makes sense for a frame who probably only wants to pop out of safety in short bursts to deploy more traps.

Edited August 10, 2018 by Paradoxbomb

[-.SP.-G43riel]

6 hours ago, SlicerGT said:

Even the cat_lady_frame has more armor than this wimp. I understand that Kora is a bit less effective at CC, but she deals quite a decent ammount of damage as well. Vauban does almost nothing.

Either increase his armor please, or give him defensive 2nd ability instead of current one and make balls switching by holding key 1

PS. And think about making some of his augments to be exilus compatible. Actualy, not only Vauban's, but for Ash, Valkyr, Atlas and so on. At least some of their augments.

Comparing him, or any other frame, to other frames is very questionable as warframe is all about what suits you and your playstyle.
Its Not about changing things so it will suit you, despite what a good number of people in these forums seem to think while asking for reworks everyday.

[Birdframe_Prime]

1 hour ago, VPrime96 said:

Compare to other tanks, she do look like it but it makes sense for her because Berserkers are Bear Warriors, they fight with no armor on.

Let's not forget that Berserkers were, traditionally, very large, very angry men and women, not slightly-built little cat-like things. It's Valkyr's theme, yes, but OP's whole context for this thread is that Vauban looks like he should have more armour. Valkyr's theme doesn't exactly mesh with her appearance, see? She certainly doesn't look like a tanky frame.

[GPrime96]

35 minutes ago, Thaylien said:

Let's not forget that Berserkers were, traditionally, very large, very angry men and women, not slightly-built little cat-like things. It's Valkyr's theme, yes, but OP's whole context for this thread is that Vauban looks like he should have more armour. Valkyr's theme doesn't exactly mesh with her appearance, see? She certainly doesn't look like a tanky frame.

I agree with what you are saying. Vauban, when i played him in Hydron, is very Squishy even though he should be tankier.

[-.SP.-G43riel]

12 minutes ago, VPrime96 said:

is very Squishy even though he should be tankier.

should him?

as far as i know he should be CC not a tank

[Birdframe_Prime]

35 minutes ago, VPrime96 said:

I agree with what you are saying. Vauban, when i played him in Hydron, is very Squishy even though he should be tankier.

And my point was that I don't think any frame needs to be tankier. What defines 'survivability' in this game is mechanical ways to stop damage from happening. Crowd Control, high damage reduction, and just killing things before they can kill you are all viable ways of doing that, and Vauban has many ways to stop enemies from damaging him in the first place.

The long duration and high ranges capable on his kit means that he can basically take all the time he needs to kill enemies while they can't do anything at all to him.

What frame needs high armour when they have instant access to stopping that damage? It's like Excalibur, the instant CC of Radial Blind makes him more survivable than his base stats would actually say. Zephyr has high Health and Shields, but no armour at all, but Turbulence, Air Blast and her passive mean she never needs to take damage at all. Khora is a little less survivable, because her main CC is slower than it really could be, and she has to set up her 4 ahead of time, and so I have no worries about her having higher armour, it's fine, she's got a different kit, but Vauban, where the second one of his two main abilities hits the floor, everything in range is completely immobilised? No need to tank things, no need to even take that damage.

[(PSN)ZeroSection]

9 hours ago, Sahansral said:

High-range Khora wants to have a word with you...

Vauban's kit is outdated and redundant. It's CC on top of CC on top of CC. Long time ago when CC was king that meant that a frame had to bad in all other aspects.

But it's 2018. Frames with incredible tankiness and suberb damage potential now get good CC, too. Time to overthink old paradigms and adjust.

Thank you for this.  I've tried explaining this exact same thing over and over and it just goes in one ear and right out the other with some people.  The last place CC was relevant were the raids and now those are gone.  There isn't a reason for him to remain as stagnant as he is.

Quoting myself from reddit but it seems pretty apt:

"His kit is far too focused on CC in a game where the 30+ Warframes we have can generate their own forms of CC while offering other things. The last few new frames: Nidus, Harrow, Gara, Khora all have CC, but also have other things to do outside of that which give more value to a party. Hell Khora's entire kit, which features quite a bit of CC, and also similar to Vauban's in nature, is arguably a better version of Vauban's for the vast majority of content a player will actually experience and its pretty unique in its own right.

When you mix that in with the constant power creep we have it paints an ugly picture for Vauban as well as others such as Nyx.

Whether it be utility, buffing, debuffing or yes damage Vauban simply needs more to do than toss out the occasional Bastille/Vortex. The game has moved on from the days of needing such a heavy CC niche filled-and the removal of raids was just the nail in the coffin."

Edited August 10, 2018 by (PS4)ZeroSection

[(XBOX)GhostofaMessiah]

Maybe they should make him thinner?

[MrForz]

CCing to survive... What a joke. Meanwhile in Rhino/Nidus/Inaros-land...