Elite Alerts (Please, Let's Make this Right)

[Shpow]

On 2018-08-18 at 12:31 AM, ShinTechG said:

I know, but I mean on a more serious level. Maybe more of them at a time

You're evil.

[MarikBentusi]

I think the problem with creating challenging content is that the game isn't really laid out for it, infrastructurally. When players can cheese through virtually anything with the right build, there's no challenge to be had no matter how many modifiers you stack or much you crank up the enemy levels.

 

After the point in progression where you fight lvl 30-40 enemies, difficulty gets wildly out of control. There's an initial difficulty spike as Sorties throw higher level enemies at you way faster than the normal star chart progression, and armor scaling gets a bit silly. As you rank up your mods and discover meta strategies, you enter a "cheese or get cheesed" period with examples like "players have infinite invisibility, but enemies have rapid energy drain, but players have access to easy energy regen" or "enemies can kill excavators in a blink, but players have bubbles that nullify gunfire and render melee units near-useless".

At the end of that period, the crystallized endgame consists of a handful of player loadouts that can trivialize any challenge and rarely leaves the enemy with any recourse. Stuff like super-tanky frames, rage & regen energy loops, AoE spam that can clear a room before the enemy can react, Limbo's non-interactivity kit, etc. Even lvl 999 enemies with every Nightmare and Sortie modifiers on them would just get very easily cheesed by something like Covert Lethality + Naramon.

To solve that challenge problem you'd either need to bandaid it with even cheesier enemies (like Juggernaut-only missions) or you'd need to fundamentally restructure how the game treats challenges. Right now, most of Warframe's challenges aren't designed to require skillchecks. They're 90% gearchecks and 10% reading the wiki article as a stand-in-tutorial. And I doubt that's gonna change much since DE is trying to please the sizable power fantasy crowd, which I can't exactly blame them for.

The third option is sidestepping the problem by creating a separate game mode balanced for skill. Problem is that DE hasn't managed to make any of the current side-game modes nearly as fun as the main one (Archwing, Operators, Lunaro, PvP) and that players always miss playing with their main inventory that they've invested so much time into. I think DE's best bet right now would be to create fights that require a skillcheck in Operator form and then a traditional gear check in Warframe form. But this compromise would still depend on their ability to make the Operator skillcheck section fun. And Eidolon hunts have revealed that players are already starting to come up with cheesy Operator gameplay strats. So it's not looking good IMO.

[(PSN)zeltwang]

I'm in favor of this but on one condition, don't put any rewards for it.  

Elite Sanctuary was supposed to be this, no?  Why did Nuke Trin become a thing?  Because it was the one sure way to get thru round 8 and have a chance for a Lato/Braton part. You want really challenging content? I'm all for it but don't put any significant rewards behind it because you then create a situation where something is locked behind a door.  If all you want is a challenge then you will play this without any loot waiting for you.  Put loot behind it and eventually it will become easy.  Either DE will make it easy or someone will figure out a way to make it easy. Now that I think of it, they already have this.  Go play elite sanctuary solo.  They can put up leader boards per frame used.  Who can go the farthest in ES with a frost or Nekros, etc.  

[Myrkrvaldyr]

I just want Assault-type missions, several objectives must be accomplished in one mission. I'd love to see multi capture targets; the team must split up and capture several targets at once. For all that is sacred, give us hard content, and make the enemies in these missions be at least level 130. Level 80-100 is sortie 3 and that's too easy. This game is pathetically easy, we are way too overpowered for the kind of missions we are given. These missions do not need to give any stellar reward, I'd be fine with just 1k endo per mission or even less. Let's just spice things up!

Edited August 21, 2018 by Myrkrvaldyr

[Julian_Skies]

On 2018-08-21 at 3:01 PM, Myrkrvaldyr said:

I just want Assault-type missions, several objectives must be accomplished in one mission. I'd love to see multi capture targets; the team must split up and capture several targets at once. For all that is sacred, give us hard content, and make the enemies in these missions be at least level 130. Level 80-100 is sortie 3 and that's too easy. This game is pathetically easy, we are way too overpowered for the kind of missions we are given. These missions do not need to give any stellar reward, I'd be fine with just 1k endo per mission or even less. Let's just spice things up!

Tbh everything in the game indicates that it is not expected that you fight enemies over 100 under ANY circumstance, the endless missions allows you to, but at your own risk.

If they ever have a mission that starts past 100 I imagine it will be AFTER they rework enemy scaling.

[Atsia]

On 2018-08-21 at 1:42 PM, (PS4)zeltwang said:

I'm in favor of this but on one condition, don't put any rewards for it.  

Elite Sanctuary was supposed to be this, no?  Why did Nuke Trin become a thing?  Because it was the one sure way to get thru round 8 and have a chance for a Lato/Braton part. You want really challenging content? I'm all for it but don't put any significant rewards behind it because you then create a situation where something is locked behind a door.  If all you want is a challenge then you will play this without any loot waiting for you.  Put loot behind it and eventually it will become easy.  Either DE will make it easy or someone will figure out a way to make it easy. Now that I think of it, they already have this.  Go play elite sanctuary solo.  They can put up leader boards per frame used.  Who can go the farthest in ES with a frost or Nekros, etc.  

If they don't put any rewards, then the it's gonna pretty much DOA. Yeah, some people would play for the E-peen of being on the leaderboard, but I doubt most of the player base would even touch it if they didn't get any worthwhile/substantial rewards for it. Making a mode without ANY rewards is nowhere in the devs best interest IMO.

[Kuroyori]

Falling off map in this mode should have some kind of consequence, such as dealing half of your remaining hp as damage. This would make people try to avoid falling off as well as attempt to avoid being pushed off by enemies that can knockback (such as shockwave moas and arson eximii)

[(PSN)mahoshonenfox]

There is no such thing as skill based hard content in warframe. The hardest thing in the game is luck and rng. The only reason DE is adding higher level content is because of power creep. Rivens, arcanes and weapon combinations with certain warframes can trivialize any challenge in the game no matter how high their level. Limbo Stasis + Zakti + Covert Lethality Dagger for example can mow down anything while being completely invulnerable.

I can't wait for Elite Alerts not because of the rewards but because of the possible affinity gain. It reduces grind by letting me gain more for less time. It'll help me max out my syndicate in just a couple of missions for ranking up weapons for forma. Imagine farming focus with Ivara or Equinox in a level 100 grineer exterminate. I bet I can max out my focus in just a couple of missions.

[(PSN)zeltwang]

On 2018-08-24 at 10:28 PM, Atsia said:

If they don't put any rewards, then the it's gonna pretty much DOA. Yeah, some people would play for the E-peen of being on the leaderboard, but I doubt most of the player base would even touch it if they didn't get any worthwhile/substantial rewards for it. Making a mode without ANY rewards is nowhere in the devs best interest IMO.

Then you get exactly what we have always gotten. It will be difficult until someone figures out how to cheese it or DE makes it easier for everyone to do. When they put valuable loot behind a wall like this then everyone wants it and you get what happened with onslaught and nuke trin or you get an item that is worth a boatload of plat, or both.  I used nuke trin, not because I liked it, it was boring as heck.  The only reason I did it was to not waste my time trying to make wave 8 and fail.  

I get what you are saying but most people say they just want harder missions, they want a challenge.  Why then put a rewards on those missions that will make those missions no longer a challenge?    

[Zi-Sui]

A few days ago I did a sortie interception, 3rd one, with enemy physical enhancement and corpus. My Inaros is THE beefiest Inaros you get right now but still I died. Could had avoided that death but still, it wasnt easyymode anymore. Link Trinity can die to nullifier bubble and needs to stay alert. Same with Rhino, Chroma and Valkyr. Inaros is the only tank I know with massive EHP AND doesn't care about nullifiers.

So you guys asking for multiple sortie conditions in a no revive mission, you're really setting yourself up for some challenge. Those nullifiers will make you cry for nerfs if you're not careful. You can't fail a 10 minute mission too many times if it's the same as alerts with timing.

[ShinTechG]

48 minutes ago, BoarWarrior said:

A few days ago I did a sortie interception, 3rd one, with enemy physical enhancement and corpus. My Inaros is THE beefiest Inaros you get right now but still I died. Could had avoided that death but still, it wasnt easyymode anymore. Link Trinity can die to nullifier bubble and needs to stay alert. Same with Rhino, Chroma and Valkyr. Inaros is the only tank I know with massive EHP AND doesn't care about nullifiers.

So you guys asking for multiple sortie conditions in a no revive mission, you're really setting yourself up for some challenge. Those nullifiers will make you cry for nerfs if you're not careful. You can't fail a 10 minute mission too many times if it's the same as alerts with timing.

Why would be cry? This is EXACTLY what players want! And FYI, there are many players right now that could do this with ease even with multiple sortie conditions and no revives. The whole point of us requesting this is because Warframe doesn't have enough challenging content to actually push our builds and skills.

If anyone complains about it being too hard, then they need to work harder to get better. If they don't want the challenge, that is what regular alerts and missions are for.

[Spac3Ac3]

I support this message. Dieing in a mission would up the stakes and make you one hell of a good Tenno. But let's fix the bombard insta kill and get those shields to work properly in high level content. Man... I would love this idea of last man standing... play until you drop. 

[(PSN)StarDustKillah]

2 hours ago, ShinTechG said:

Why would be cry? This is EXACTLY what players want! And FYI, there are many players right now that could do this with ease even with multiple sortie conditions and no revives. The whole point of us requesting this is because Warframe doesn't have enough challenging content to actually push our builds and skills.

If anyone complains about it being too hard, then they need to work harder to get better. If they don't want the challenge, that is what regular alerts and missions are for.

Yeah, any Sortie isn't a problem for any of my Loadouts. I honestly I don't even check the modifiers anymore, let alone play w/ a group. Could only imagine how easy it'd be w/ a of group of friends lol.

Actually, the few times I do play w/ a friend, the Sortie gets stomped within 10 minutes, 20 if theres a defense or Survival up lol.

Now that I think about it... The only time I've ever died within resent time in a Sortie? Was due to having a purely Elemental Loadout, while facing Elemental Resistant Hyena Pack... So doing 0 damage, using Excal, MR 6-9 teammates, they used up all their revives and died, so I quit swapped primaries & blew the pack up in probably less than a minute lol.

We need something harder. Hell I'd be cool with a single Sortie modifier but with level 150 or 200 enemies. The dream is DE using those Nightmare Modifiers :~)

 

 

 

[(PSN)StarDustKillah]

1 hour ago, Spac3Ac3 said:

I support this message. Dieing in a mission would up the stakes and make you one hell of a good Tenno. But let's fix the bombard insta kill and get those shields to work properly in high level content. Man... I would love this idea of last man standing... play until you drop. 

Yeah, where's the Shield Gating update at?

I'm hoping they do something w/ Shield Oriented Warframes/Builds having better gate effects.

Like for every 500 shields/over-shields, you get an additional 0.5 or 0.25 seconds of invulnerability or something.

[GPrime96]

13 hours ago, BoarWarrior said:

Link Trinity can die to nullifier bubble and needs to stay alert. Same with Rhino, Chroma and Valkyr. Inaros is the only tank I know with massive EHP AND doesn't care about nullifiers.

What i learned about Nullifiers is you have to avoid the projectile he would shoot at you whiel you try to kill him bubble first. Ilearned this from doing 60 mins in Mot as Valkyr (dodging the projectiles while you be at a place where the Nully don’t hit you when you cast Hysteria, then swipe him bubble first, then him after). What i hate about them is when they see you and one shot you when you don’t have a idea where the Crewmans is (<< Example of cheap). So Nullifiers being defeated by any frame is possible but it would require Movement instead of charging in.

Edited September 11, 2018 by VPrime96