Why Some Weapons Are Still Designed To Damage The User?

[-N7-Leonhart]

I can imagine that in the past this was used as a balancing point to make some weapons slightly less powerful. But right now that is not the case at all. Weapons like Penta, Ogris, Angstrum, are all not that powerful anymore.

 

My point is, the self-damage is pointless now and it should not exist anymore. It only serves to make those weapons very undesirable to use, since well, quite frankly there are far superior alternatives like the Tonkor. Tonkor is superior in damage (partly due to a bug) and doesn't kill the user, so why would anyone use the weaker and very risky alternative?

 

That is why I think that those self-damage weapons have currently an outdated design, as they serve no purpose..........other than purposefully damaging yourself to get some advantages from powers, which is degenerate gameplay beyond measure.

Edited February 7, 2016 by -BM-StormVanguard

[Kuestenjung]

I can imagine that in the past this was used as a balancing point to make some weapons slightly less powerful. But right now that is not the case at all. Weapons like Penta, Ogris, Angstrum, are all not that powerful anymore.

 

They are as powerful as ever, just because there are stronger weapons doesn´t mean they aren´t that strong anymore. Selfdamage needs to stay and it should be added to weapons like Simulor and Tonkor too.

[Azure.M]

They are as powerful as ever, just because there are stronger weapons doesn´t mean they aren´t that strong anymore. Selfdamage needs to stay and it should be added to weapons like Simulor and Tonkor too.

 

Well, explosive weapons don't work against Nullifiers any more. Which does make them a lot worse.

And Tonkor's whole schtick is being able to grenade jump, you can't add self-damage to it because then it's just Penta 2. It should do less damage instead to compensate for the lower risk.

[Update]

They are as powerful as ever, just because there are stronger weapons doesn´t mean they aren´t that strong anymore. Selfdamage needs to stay and it should be added to weapons like Simulor and Tonkor too.

Not for tonkor, tonkor are designed for " Bulletjump " (before the update) for simulor.... dunnoh.

[EvilChaosKnight]

Have you seen Bombards and Penta rangers damage themselves? Or Scrambus with his Angstrum?

Then why should we suffer?

+1 to the OP.

 

Also Simulor has higher AOE than launch distance. You should then rename it to "Seppukulor"

Edited February 7, 2016 by EvilChaosKnight

[-N7-Leonhart]

Also Simulor has higher AOE than launch distance. You should then rename it to "Seppukulor"

 

Lol, or Harakirilor would also do :P

[IceColdHawk]

Selfdamage needs to stay and it should be added to weapons like Simulor and Tonkor too.

Considering it's low range shooting range but high AoE explosion range, it wouldn't work since you would always be dealing damage to yourself.

[LordOfScrugging]

you don't know how explosions work do you? tonkor aside, if you throw a grenade in front of you and expect it not to hurt you cause you were the one who threw it then you got something wrong in the head. i think enemies should suffer from self damage as well.

[Syln]

It's a pointless feature indeed tbh but i don't really mind since i don't use these weapons anyway +1 for the op

[-N7-Leonhart]

you don't know how explosions work do you? tonkor aside, if you throw a grenade in front of you and expect it not to hurt you cause you were the one who threw it then you got something wrong in the head. i think enemies should suffer from self damage as well.

 

And why Tonkor aside? And why some other weapons like the Quanta's Vandal secondary attack grenade launcher? Simulor? Or maybe even something like Sonicor then. In the same way those are fine without the self-damage, the others should be at least a bit in line with them.

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

Well if they hadn't gotten rid of Rhino's self damage to Iron Skin then they'd be serving a huge purpose right now. But I agree those weapons should enjoy Tonkor's non self damage status and in some cases it's rocket jump hilarity.

But... Once that happened the Tonkor would now suffer the same fate of obscurity. So you'd have to reduce the ammo capacity of the magazine to the Penta to 3, buff it from 20 ammo to 40 and throw in something unique like the rocket jump, but it instead buffs health for a small duration, or invisibility, creates a wyrm effect where it flattens foes to the ground like Tonkor rag dolls enemies. Something to set them all apart and make them uniquely fun in themselves.

Edited February 7, 2016 by (PS4)FriendSharkey

[-N7-Leonhart]

Well if they hadn't gotten rid of Rhino's self damage to Iron Skin then they'd be serving a huge purpose right now. But I agree those weapons should enjoy Tonkor's non self damage status and in some cases it's rocket jump hilarity.

But... Once that happened the Tonkor would now suffer the same fate of obscurity. So you'd have to reduce the ammo capacity of the magazine to the Penta to 3, buff it from 20 ammo to 40 and throw in something unique like the rocket jump, but it instead buffs health for a small duration, or invisibility, creates a wyrm effect where it flattens foes to the ground like Tonkor rag dolls enemies. Something to set them all apart and make them uniquely fun in themselves.

 

No need for self-damage when it comes to Rihno. He can have way higher Iron Skin by using Ironclad Charge now, using a meager exploit like that is meaningless.

 

Also, Tonkor. Did you asked yourself why it has only 2 ammo in the fist place? Simple, it has crits, so more damage overall, so the low magazine ammo is a balance point too. The others are super fine with their current stats, not OP at all, even if they won't kill you.

[Gurpgork]

But... Once that happened the Tonkor would now suffer the same fate of obscurity. 

The main point of using the Tonkor isn't rocket jumping...

 

 

...it's that.

 

I think the Tonkor will be just fine if the other launchers get their much-needed buff.

Edited February 7, 2016 by Gurpgork

[-N7-Leonhart]

The main point of using the Tonkor isn't rocket jumping...

 

 

...it's that.

 

I think the Tonkor will be just fine if the other launchers get their much-needed buff.

 

For the most part, that doesn't count. Vauban's Vortex is know to create this large numbers, so in shot it's a bug. I remember seeing millions all the time when using Soma P in the same way too.

Edited February 7, 2016 by -BM-StormVanguard

[CronosZX]

Tonkor is already the Red-Crit god tier-scrub weapon(Argon Scope WHYYYYYYY)...And it has no self damage as the icing of the cake.

 

Penta-Ogris-Angstrum are "good", but not even near as much, they are just okay in endgame parameters, maybe meh.

 

Kulstar is a bit ahead of these but not an inch near Tonkor again.

 

Why should the "Weaker" launchers suffer from self damage while the most "broken" (and I say broken because it auto scores headshots  any body part) must have that added bonus? (while other launchers also benefit from this, Tonkor is the only one who can abuse it for an Argon Scope Red Crit Build)

 

Rocketjumping is useless since parkour 2.0. Useless as utility wise, no matter how hilarious it is.

 

Either give Tonkor Self damage too (Ehhhh, pls no) or Give the other launchers Reduced self damage as well. (Maybe 100-150  instead of Tonkor's 50, anything is better than an Instakill at higher levels)

Edited February 7, 2016 by CronosZX

[Kuestenjung]

Have you seen Bombards and Penta rangers damage themselves? Or Scrambus with his Angstrum?

Then why should we suffer?

+1 to the OP.

 

Also Simulor has higher AOE than launch distance. You should then rename it to "Seppukulor"

 

Maybe they are just better then almost every player using this weapons?

 

This is just even more powercreep, but yeah, the community and DE loves it.

[ZoneDymo]

Well, explosive weapons don't work against Nullifiers any more. Which does make them a lot worse.

And Tonkor's whole schtick is being able to grenade jump, you can't add self-damage to it because then it's just Penta 2. It should do less damage instead to compensate for the lower risk.

 

o rly now, guess nobody would mind it if we then adress that 35 FFING CRIT CHANCE right?

Because people use for the grenade jump....

[(PSN)Lord_Gremlin]

Self damage used to compensate for endless ammo - since you didn't need ammo you could waste tons of shots from safe vantage points. Now self damage just makes weapon trash period.

They should remove all self damage. This will also prevent future and present exploits. Trinity for example. God I'd love to have it gone. Maybe they'll finally balance enemy damage then.

[(PSN)DBR87]

But if I can't self damage with explosions how will I max Vex armor before skirmishes? :O

 

Slight sarcasm aside, I think it would help bring a lot of diversity to launchers if Penta, Orgris and Angstrum followed suit with Tonkor. They should do a maximum of 50-100 damage to the user. Realistically if you fire a grenade launcher at a wall two feet in front of you then you just committed suicide. But because of how this realism is effecting the meta, it would be more beneficial if there was a cap to self damage. A small one at that.

[(PSN)aiptekfanboy]

I can imagine that in the past this was used as a balancing point to make some weapons slightly less powerful. But right now that is not the case at all. Weapons like Penta, Ogris, Angstrum, are all not that powerful anymore.

 

My point is, the self-damage is pointless now and it should not exist anymore. It only serves to make those weapons very undesirable to use, since well, quite frankly there are far superior alternatives like the Tonkor. Tonkor is superior in damage (partly due to a bug) and doesn't kill the user, so why would anyone use the weaker and very risky alternative?

 

That is why I think that those self-damage weapons have currently an outdated design, as they serve no purpose..........other than purposefully damaging yourself to get some advantages from powers, which is degenerate gameplay beyond measure.

plus 1

 

back in the day when the penta and other weapons had 540 or close to unlimited ammo then self damage kinda made sense.

 

But with 40 ammo? self damage needs to GOOO bye bye

 

Get rid of self damage.

[Hellmaker2004]

It is a very good idea to get rid of the self damage aspect of all weapons. This will indeed make it easier to balance Trinity out and remove the 99% standard that everyone assume she has up 100% of the time.

[Kaidinah]

I am down for being able to use my formaed ogris instead of the tonkor.

[xRufus7x]

Well, explosive weapons don't work against Nullifiers any more. Which does make them a lot worse.

And Tonkor's whole schtick is being able to grenade jump, you can't add self-damage to it because then it's just Penta 2. It should do less damage instead to compensate for the lower risk.

Lets be honest here. Tonkor gets used for mobility about as much as Vaubaun's bounce. They could easily give it another unique mechanic. A timed explosion, stickey grenades without the mod, hell even having it detonate on impact would make it different from the Penta.

[Inmemoratus]

Another reason to remove self damage is the most degenerate strategy in the game, 99% blessing trinity. I'm not usually for nerfing stuff but that wasn't the intended gameplay.

 

We should be using the launchers to blow up enemies, not for exploits. Remove self damage.

[TheLexiConArtist]

Another reason to remove self damage is the most degenerate strategy in the game, 99% blessing trinity. I'm not usually for nerfing stuff but that wasn't the intended gameplay.

 

We should be using the launchers to blow up enemies, not for exploits. Remove self damage.

 

At best it would just replace 99% blessing Trinity with 0% blessing Trinity in sorties and other high level content because everyone just gets oneshot, so Trinity never catches someone at low health to benefit from the damage reduction at all.

 

No, before you claim it, I don't even have a Blessing Trinity build.

 

(Even more likely is that maxed-duration Trinities would just step out with their QT in front of a sniper round, land on 2 health, and carry on giving that 99% damage reduction. It'd just be a little bit less convenient.)

 

 

Add self damage to the Tonkor. Before it took over by being the zero risk, 400% reward alternative to any other launcher, I was still seeing a reasonable amount of Penta users. Trying to avoid falling on your rear end in a 'whoopsie' moment is half the fun (and skill) of using an explosive weapon!

Plus, everyone gets to have a good laugh when you do slip up.