Voltage

It happens too often. :(

Good luck. I doubt this will ever be resolved.

I am one of those people who want and appreciate proper resource sinks, but you're supposed to apply those when you're committing to something, like an Arcane slot, Forma, buying an item, dojo research, etc. What we have is an obscure version of Arcane Distillation and tantamount to if DE charged you a resource cost every time you wanted to remove a mod out of a slot. It's an asinine cost that just pushes players into obvious choices. It hurts double time when the Archon Shard applies one bonus to all configs, much like the annoyance of Arcanes in the past. It would still be a sink and feel much better if you paid a large sum of bile to unlock the Shard slots, and then using Shards was free afterwards.

DE needs to start somewhere, and Eclipse has been long overdue. I'm in total agreement with the nature of the feedback (messy wording, etc.), but most of the "feedback" (especially in this thread) clearly showed that people just don't understand Eclipse or modding their gear. I bet a lot of these people are just assuming it works with GunCO/CO, hence my "clueless" remark. Yeah, I'm always pessimistic, but I'm also just tired, especially in threads like these where the uninformed and uneducated are the ones listened to (because it's the majority of players). It's quite sad. I'll be surprised if DE even fixes Eclipse bugs in Dante Unbound. That's just the player side. On the DE side they do the same thing year after year after year. I don't see a point in bothering, unless how I feel somehow lines up with the "target audience", but that rarely happens, so I just don't care enough and rather just educate people on what the pattern is rather than pretending you're going to change it. People are really out here saying how relevant 30% is while clearly displaying they have no idea how it applies, where it applies, where it doesn't apply, and how many times it applies lol. It's the same thing when people talk about Faction Damage/Roar or Primed Chamber saying how "weak" these mods are. This change is honestly a worse deal than the proposed Base Damage one, especially long-term. The only immediate "tragedies" with the initial nerf would be players who are soloing (originally) squad content at the same efficiency (Eidolons, Profit-Taker, etc.). A base damage Eclipse will definitely be a smaller number on screen, but the practical difference is negligible. It would also make builds more flexible for specific modding choices, because it would be functional to the years old concept of "baked in mandatory mods". I'd really like for DE to do a multiplier squeeze so that players who understand modding can have a good time without junk like damage attenuation, and players who just want to turn their brain off can roll throw their low level missions with a bunch of diminishing returns. It wouldn't make the game any less power-creep, as we saw with the massive melee nerf in 2019.

There's a few, but they are already documented elsewhere. I was already lambasted for mentioning bugs in my comments prior, so I rather just not say and let people enjoy what they think the ability works like now. Whether these bugs are actually fixed in Dante Unbound is on DE. It may end up like GunCO/CO where most players don't know it has many bugs, and it just rots in obscurity even though it's the pinnacle of many builds. Eclipse granting additional base damage would have resolved those issues. Oh well.

If Mirage was irrelevant without this update, I have concerns for people's loadouts lol. Enjoy the massively nerfed Helminth Eclipse and all the previous bugs in tow. Surely anyone opposed to the idea of reversing the initial proposal wanted a bad deal on purpose.

"Need" is a strong word. I'm going to be honest, but I think the only way to properly address the popularity of Eclipse, Roar, Nourish, Thermal Sunder, etc. is to replace them with a different ability altogether. Reliable final damage, separate from Faction Damage/Roar is a very strong ability, even if the bonus was a mere 10%, especially with how late-game Helminth is for players to optimize around and what powercreep looks like lately. People complained in a kneejerk fashion without understanding the massive boost in reliability and bug-fixing that high base damage would have offered to the table. This massive nerf in percentage to please that crowd is quite justified. I'm for once agreeing with this change, even though it's a massive nerf to my Eclipse Warframes.

I just wish they reapproached the Bile cost. I rather spend 50% Bile 5 times to unlock the 5 shard slots than be spending resources every time DE changes the game or introduces a reason to swap a Shard's bonus. Also, I really hope they allow players to split fused shards.

Rebecca mentioned that there is a technical limitation for the idea of downranking mods (whether done by the player or automatically) back in 2015: (Source) I don't see it happening personally.

It depends on the entity. Some objects have a really bizarre scan hitbox for Helios. I doubt it will be fixed, judging by how the Codex is handled.

Explain to me how a multiplicative damage bonus (that isn't consistent and also has many bugged interactions) is less contributing to the overarching problem of immense powercreep compared to an additive base damage multiplier that will not only be more consistent, but also create diminishing returns to prevent the player from exponentially trivializing the game. Reeling in multipliers enables DE to create higher level content with appropriately scaling enemies comparative to our power output. Or would you prefer the direction we've been going in with mechanics like "Damage Attenuation" where the only meaningful damage multiplier is the framerate (among other things ). It happened to Vex Armor. It happened to Condition Overload. It happened to Faction Damage Mods. It happened to Maiming Strike. It happened to Blood Rush. It happened to Magus Lockdown. It happened to so much more. It's been Eclipse's turn for a long time now.

You're projecting so hard on things nobody has said. DE is biting the bullet with something that is mathematically healthier for the game's powercreep problems. Nobody can argue that point. The OP here is using that math to be upset at the loss in power it creates. That is valid feedback, but it introduces the discussion: That is the entire point of changing the multiplier to base damage. This lines up with the way Vex Armor was handled years prior. We'll all have to adjust our builds, but it's not going to make the ability "bad" by any stretch, especially when there are two components to the ability and players are focused on the damage buff. If you're looking to be constructive, start adding something to the discussion about Eclipse itself instead of your personal issue with my comments.

Saving Forma/Aura Forma on the Aura slot specifically. Out of 97 Non-Prime and Prime Warframes, 93 can have their Aura polarity functionally ignored by simply having this mod. The only exceptions to this are vanilla Excalibur, vanilla Nekros, vanilla Protea and vanilla Sevagoth. Aura Forma is not used by newer players. The appeal of the item is a later game enhancement to allow any Aura mod to give you its capacity bonus. This mod undermines that functionality by saying "You can just not spend that expensive Forma or re-leveling if you just slot this instead". Because the game has always been very easy and relaxed, Aura Mods don't offer enough bonus for you to consider this move unless you're really looking to min-max, which is a minority of the playerbase. Players looking to seek pure maximization will graduate away from this Aura. However, it adds reliance on it that undermines progression to the Aura Mods pool if the player chooses. Anecdotally, players will often go this route, as you see Mesa's using Pistol Amp which adds the most negligible amount of damage to Regulators as opposed to the bonus of Energy Siphon, Corrosive Projection, Brief Respite, or other Aura choices. There is nothing wrong with approaching an Aura slot as a matching game. Choosing the best bonus for the polarity given is where players start at. This mod completely removes needing to make that decision. Before we had Aura Forma, polarizing an Aura slot to Naramon was a graduation in maximizing the Aura slot (as all the most helpful bonuses were Naramon outside of Steel Charge purely for its oversighted capacity increase). Later on players graduated to Aura Forma to open more options. This mod is a regression and teaches players a bad habit of ignoring the polarity altogether for the capacity bonus. My goal with this thread was to change the way Aura Mods are approached by players at all levels of the game to feel like a graduated process with an end result of true diversity. This is why I made the suggestion to make all Aura and Stance mods a single polarity, adding a standardized modding capacity, and moving Aura Forma to an earlier acquisition, with reduced crafting costs, and a proper tutorial for the system. I feel like way too many people commenting on here are picking apart one statement out of my thread to say how anti-player it is, but then writing a comment asking for the exact same thing the scope of this thread discusses. I am not asking to remove the bonus DE's intentions aim to make with no improvement to Auras. I am not asking to make new players' time worse and/or more grindy. I want new players to be taught mechanics appropriately and with good habits so that they can get more out of this game in a positive way. The universal polarity on the Aura fundamentally acts in the same way Damaged Mods did years prior. This is nothing more than just another confusing outlier added to Warframe that does nobody a real service long-term in their playtime.

Just wait until they learn how often CO effects ignored Eclipse.

Isn't it simply because Steel Charge used to be a rank 10 mod, and when it got reduced by 5 ranks, the capacity became 9 instead of 14? I don't think there's any real balance behind it, they just didn't make it consistent 10 years ago and left it alone. Power Donation feels more questionable to me than Steel Charge. @Birdframe_Prime I am not sure why you believe this new Aura teaches new players anything. The mod's bonus is helpful and I don't mind it being added for those players. A universal polarity doesn't teach players about polarities, and instead shows them that equipping this Aura will permanently save you Forma and Aura Forma. Players should be encouraged to graduate through mechanics by being shown how this system works. I said that in my post. I am absolutely agreeing with you on "teaching players". A free universal "this gives capacity on any Warframe" mod is not educational, it's simply a crutch, and it undermines several layers of gear later in the game. That does no player a beneficial service, it just holds their hand well past the portion of the game where they do need help.

DE rather go the Riven Disposition approach than properly fixing the problem with Helminth.

My "backbone" comment comes from recognizing that sometimes average players whine and as a result hurt the health of the game. It's not often where DE just sticks to their guns. Situations like Hema are several years in the past and quite rare. All I was supporting is that they may do this with Eclipse. That's all I was referring to. It has nothing to do with whether I like something. The bandaid just has to come off at some point. You can read my other comments if you want to know my stance on the changes. I was supporting this nerf back when they asked players if they wanted a toggle. My comment there actually asked for it to be a different multiplier to create diminishing returns.

I understand you want to hold them accountable for misleading players, but I appreciate them showcasing a backbone to make a hard decision that benefits the game long-term. I guess we're just on the opposite ends of the receiving end of this change. Historically, this is how most devstream/dev workshop changes go over. The information they give us is their predetermined commitment. Eclipse has gone unchanged far too long. It should have been changed when Vex Armor was, but we're here now, and it's changing now. That's just the way the cookie crumbles for a live service game. I just want to make clear as well that I am not trying to shut down players "speaking up", just trying to get them to wake up. Welcome to the "Temporary removal of Trials" club, founded February 7th, 2018.

They do it all the time, for stuff most people forget about. They changed the description for GunCO to say "direct" damage instead of fixing it to work with AoE. They use this ambiguous language for sold exclusives, so that in the case they feel like re-releasing something, they don't get into hot water. It's all over the game and several updates in the past. I don't like it either, but it has to be said as it's important to understand so you can see this coming next time, because there always is one. I won't disagree with you. It's ambiguous and woefully dishonest messaging, but you think this is my first time? This has happened with Regal Aya, the Heirloom Collection, Permanent Nightwave Acts, Kuva Hek unable to use Scattered Justice, Trinity's Well of Life nerf recently, and several more things in the past. If you take their word at face value and make assumptions such as "Which also by extension means no nerf to how the ability works", that's entirely on you. Hopefully everyone involved in discourse with developer decisions get the hint that this is a frequent occurrence. In the end, no matter whether you feel this is positive or negative for the game, it will be swept under the rug in a few weeks and forgotten, just like what happened to Chroma.

Changing it to base damage and also reducing that effectiveness for Helminth is still technically in line with what you quoted (in the context of comparing mirage's eclipse to helminth eclipse). I guess this is what happens when a majority of players aren't educated on precedence like Chroma. People expecting a separate final weapon damage multiplier with a simple toggle are quite naive. The whole point is to oversaturate base damage so diminishing returns play out. It's been a major problem for years that the formula for your weapon damage has several layers of multiplication that gets wildly out of hand. This change is healthy for Warframe going forward. God forbid you can't solo a 6x3 as well in a mode designed for teamplay, trivialize Profit-Taker, or the several other reasons players really use Eclipse for. I'm praising this change from the perspective of an Eclipse abuser. I was one of the original people to claim Eclipse in Helminth was a mistake. The lighting rework really showcased the problem with this ability, and it had nothing to do with the trigger.

I think it's also worth mentioning that this is way better than Duviri because it's an optional randomization, and you get to pick exactly what loadout you use if you have duplicates. It's not forcing your mod config choices or restricting you from playing at all. DE turning Melee Duplicate and Crescendo to a Pseudo-Energize/Grace from back in the day makes for a mode that actually feels rewarding if you can handle it.

I think many people are overreacting. The reason Warframes like Chroma fell out of favor is because of the multiplicative options like Eclipse Volt. If all damage buffing Warframes behaved with similar multipliers, Warframes like Chroma would become more compelling. Mirage herself will still be in a very strong spot between her clones, Prism Guard, and Sleight of Hand. She's been an effective Warframe for many years despite nerfs on several occasions. This is a mere speed-bump for her.

If anything, making it base damage will be more transparent in-game. I don't know if their decision to change the multiplier came before or after the planned toggle ideas. I'm cool with it though, as it lines up with what I said in that thread. :p

The very premise of Break Narmer missions are why few like to play Kahl. There is no QoL that would get people interested without gutting the entire mode, which is what moving the rewards does effectively. I do not mind this change, as someone who's been farming them since they released. I can certainly agree with you regarding "stuffing" the newest area with most items people are playing for at later stages of the game, but I don't think it's that big of a deal. There are still several other areas a player needs to participate in. Zariman, Duviri, The Circuit, Steel Path Honors, Arbitrations, Eidolon Hunts, etc.