"Rewards will dictate whether Elite Alerts will be popular" - Seriously?

[FreeWilliam]

1 hour ago, Urlan said:

I wouldn't call those numbers too out of the ballpark, they seem relatively in the neighborhood experience with modes made for a similar audience.

Based on what exactly?  

[Urlan]

49 minutes ago, FreeWilliam said:

Based on what exactly?  

My own experience, and of course the DE figures a while back that showed Trial play amounts.

[FreeWilliam]

45 minutes ago, Urlan said:

My own experience, and of course the DE figures a while back that showed Trial play amounts.

There are figures on how much Tenno play missions they enjoy?  Where are these stats? That's my biz.

[Urlan]

1 hour ago, FreeWilliam said:

There are figures on how much Tenno play missions they enjoy?  Where are these stats? That's my biz.

A while back DE shared some on the number of players at the time that played Conclave, Archwing, and Trials. It was around the time that DE was saying they wouldn't be fiddling much more with Trials. Conclave had the least usage; then Trials, then Archwing. Some us figured that it was due to the fact that archwing at least had nodes that required clearing that used archwing, and it gave mastery so more players cleared its time - sharkwing probably counted too so we thought - while Trials were always niche and required at least a certain player team size and mostly revolved around puzzles with enemy levels that made showing new players the ropes prohibitive so that was understandable. They were enjoyed mostly by the same numbers that tried to get the arcanes or on the Trial Leaderboards. Conclave had less than both but still was getting touch-ups every so often which I can say hurt the feelings of the players I new that grinded Trials each day!

The Stats should be archived on the forums in a DE post but I am sorry I don't still have it linked.

[FreeWilliam]

19 minutes ago, Urlan said:

A while back DE shared some on the number of players at the time that played Conclave, Archwing, and Trials

That's not even close to related to

1) How much Tenno play missions because they enjoy it, or

2) How much Tenno play missions for the challenge

Heck, for 2) you could count endurance runs, but as you've seen in this very thread people who seek challenge don't always like endurance runs.

I could say that 40 percent of Tenno play time is based on gameplay enjoyment rather than seeking rewards, but that would be a butt-derived number and I couldn't back it up either.

All a lot of us want is for gameplay to be PRIORITIZED (not just in one way, but challenge is coming up a lot here ...perhaps because 'elite')..we've already got experiments where rewards are prioritized and/or exclusive (most recently Onslaught and Eidolon hunting respectively)

What's wrong with some of us saying we want the primary focus to be gameplay that is fun without rewards so that when people have their rewards the game mode is still lively?

Edited October 10, 2018 by FreeWilliam

[(PSN)RenovaKunumaru]

Content needs to be hard enough so that the majority of players won't do it despite the rewards being great. That's what will keep it alive.

And the rewards must be tradeable.

Edited October 10, 2018 by (PS4)RenovaKunumaru

[DreisterDino]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb FreeWilliam:

What's wrong with some of us saying we want the primary focus to be gameplay that is fun without rewards so that when people have their rewards the game mode is still lively?

I dont get that either.

And reading something like this really makes me scratch my head:

Zitat

I think the priorities should be a playable mode > good rewards > fun. Everything should always be functioning, that's a given. But then the rewards should be enticing enough to make people play even if the mode itself isn't appealing to them.

I really dont understand how you can say something like this about a Videogame. How can it be better to "force" people to play a gamemode that isnt fun so that they can get something they need instead of making that gamemode fun and giving people what they need. Example: its better to make people play Defection because you can get harrow only there although literally no one likes that gamemode instead of making the gamemode a good experience you would like to play anyway and get his parts while having fun?

Zitat

That's kinda icky to hear, but at least I think good rewards is a more reliable way to make people do things than trying to make it fun

Sadly, after everything i have read in the forums that might be actually true, but i will never understand that.

 

If i was looking for a game to buy and i have 2 games for choice:

- bad game that isnt fun but offers good rewards

- fun game that offers a nice experience but has no rewards at all

I clearly wouldnt pick the game that pumps out rewards and steam achievements and what not so that i can feel like i am accomplishing something over a game that doesnt have any rewards (or rewards i dont care for) but is simply fun on its own.

 

 

Edit: lol^^ i mentioned harrow without really looking at every topic in this forum, but now i saw this a few posts below:

Zitat

Been trying to get this thing for a while now.

I must have done the Defection mission (Caracol, Saturn) over 100 times (SOLO) now and the damn thing won´t drop.

Does it really have a chance to drop when you save 8 squads or am I missing something?

Wiki says there´s a 11,28% drop chance on rotation C.

Does it even drop on this map or there´s a better chance at another one, like Yursa, Neptune?

I´m sick of this game mode, no one does it anymore and I´d like some directions before I torture myself again running this thing.

I have no idea why DE thought it would be a good idea to put us through such grind to get a single part for a frame.

So, the answer to his question would be: Well, thats good Gamedesign, because fun is not important and you will feel sooo rewarded when you finally get him?

The answers so far are mostly "just buy it with plat". great^^

 

Edited October 10, 2018 by DreisterDino

[Urlan]

5 hours ago, FreeWilliam said:

That's not even close to related to

1) How much Tenno play missions because they enjoy it, or

2) How much Tenno play missions for the challenge

Heck, for 2) you could count endurance runs, but as you've seen in this very thread people who seek challenge don't always like endurance runs.

I could say that 40 percent of Tenno play time is based on gameplay enjoyment rather than seeking rewards, but that would be a butt-derived number and I couldn't back it up either.

All a lot of us want is for gameplay to be PRIORITIZED (not just in one way, but challenge is coming up a lot here ...perhaps because 'elite')..we've already got experiments where rewards are prioritized and/or exclusive (most recently Onslaught and Eidolon hunting respectively)

What's wrong with some of us saying we want the primary focus to be gameplay that is fun without rewards so that when people have their rewards the game mode is still lively?

 Avalon's point was that since players don't find the missions engaging you they didn't replay them. In their topic, for you to really judge playing for playing's sake, as a comparison, you would need every feature unlocked at the beginning, as this is what allows an apples to apples comparison. This game is about killing stuff, collecting loot as per Lotus's orders in the beginning of the game - to rebuild your previous arsenal - and expand your functionality. Fun then is subjective, and just by reading this thread, among the two or three others on a similar subject, you see that most players want rewards or something else that makes the time on running those missions worth it. Playing for Playing's sake is not a reward for the majority of players. I am afraid you are mixing a sub-point with another.

Trials and Onslaught are the most apt comparisons as they were made for the same audience of players. Survivals are made for another, though there is overlap between those, one plays for nothing other than their boredom - as they don't typically equip Dragon Keys beforehand - and a sense of challenge - this is a minority; and the other plays survivals and tries to go farther due to getting more rewards for the time both in mission objective rewards and pickups from enemies. Time invested to rewards. What is key is that one sticks with a game because of its return - those with the rewards since this is part of the game - while the other goes for an intangible and only has their own basis for the time's self worth. To measure that objectively you would need a survey based census. Which notably threads like this help give a subsection - only as valid as players that both play the game and post on the forum sadly - but one that helps paint the larger picture.I would say that if you were trying to get the mixture of Avalon's post and mine saying that their appraisal - off the top of their head as they said - guessing around 3% of players would actually keep playing the mission - that would be either those still seeking the reward or that truly enjoy just playing the mode for whatever reason for those reading - this was considered pretty in tune with experience and DE's figures in the past as that is around what DE's figures were for Trials when the mentioned they would be slowly stopping work on them. If that doesn't follow, at the time, Steam's users per day since this was before Plains, was around 20 some thousand players per day. The reasoning for why is varied, but the core take away is the same. If players enjoyed running this "Veteran aimed content" as DE presented Trials, meant for challenging players of course; it would have shown more players actually playing them. The correlation was that both for players and DE, their must be a return on investment, and less than 3% of the player base actually running a mission shows DE historically that they should re-evaluate the mission type.

"A lot of us". You keep on saying this FreeWilliam. You mean to say, if you were trying to be accurate, would be the group of players that I consider myself part of; players that just play for challenge - not as Veterans but as just because - then this nebulous highly subjective grouping could more easily be true, as you are quantifying some of its qualities upfront. You and those you consider yourself your peers play not for rewards - perhaps you already have them, perhaps not - but for a personal challenge rating. This is fine, its just easily observable not to be "veterans want this" as Veterans are quite divided on the subject of 'why' they play. Other players might get all their gear mastered in whatever ways - though in my experience its usually from being leveled by shared affinity for many players - and want something to do with it that needs the modding they invested. I can understand that mentality, as I think everyone wants validation in some way for locking in the progression we have - mods - and crafting the gear the way they like. Players that just want to play for 'challenge' would be included in this bigger grouping of subplayers - those that seek some form of 'endgame' as we call it - but often those players still seek more progression to try to attempt harder and more challenging missions to again get what they feel is farther. Just by this thread, playing for the sake of challenge alone is a minority.

Again, no one has said that a player wanting to play for their own reasons is bad or wrong, invalid as their reasons are personal. Of course, by that same token it doesn't make anyone else's valid or less valid either. That said, as said numerous times, by numerous players; DE and players need a return on the investment put into a mode. If no one is playing the match - relatively speaking of course - in a few month's time of the mode being finalized, it is wasting DE's time and investment. If the mode is not being fun or rewarding to players they will not continue running it - that is more identifiable even than how people feel about these subjects. Trials are a perfect example of this, as are Archwing missions, and Conclave. Defections are probably a pretty good example too in my own experience - few players care to run them willingly without needing Harrow Systems -but I don't believe DE has signed off on their findings in that respect. You opinion individually is just as good as any other individual player, and no one speaks for you when they say why they play. That said, if you are talking about why 'you' play, its important to refer to why 'you' play and not say you speak for a group. If we want to talk Veteran opinions, you already have mine. There are several Veteran players in the thread and forum in general! Ask them why they play and if it matches with respect for rewards or personal fun to those seeking challenge. It can be informative but give a lot of varied views.

[AvaloN1101]

I also would like to throw this out there as well: players who have acquired everything in the game are not the only ones who love and desire a good challenge. It should be obvious but it needs reiterating to add to the scope of what this thread is about. When I first started doing sorties way back when, I found them challenging, richly rewarding, and fun overall. Now? I can't really bring myself to call them challenging, and (just speaking for myself here) I get a tad bit frustrated that I get MAYBE 1-3 rivens a month from doing sorties nearly daily. Even though it isn't all that much fun anymore, and I could care less about anything other than the rivens as a reward, the number of people for whom it is at least moderately challenging far outnumber that which find it easy, which now includes me. But I can sympathize with the undeniable fact that, in the number of players who desire a challenge, it is the vets who have a harder time finding that 'something more challenging' compared to newer players. 

But then, if you are in the minority of players who fit that description, wouldn't it be a more constructive use of your time to suggest to DE ideas about the sort of challenges you'd like to see? And I don't mean the whole, "make then super high level starting out" deal. I mean, come up with a rough idea for a game mode, mechanic, or overall implementation that you would be excited to see in the game. Then all the like-minded people will flock to the idea, giving it support or improving on the idea over time, and it will then give DE some new ideas to work with. Just sitting there saying 'challenge me' and then scoffing at something new because it isn't challenging will certainly not do any good in giving you the support you need to get the fun you want from the game. Food for thought.

[sleepychewbacca]

4 hours ago, DreisterDino said:So, the answer to his question would be: Well, thats good Gamedesign, because fun is not important and you will feel sooo rewarded when you finally get him?

The answers so far are mostly "just buy it with plat". great^^

 

I'll answer this. 

We start with the premise that Warframe is about grinding. To pad out the time for content to be consumed, the grind serves as the feature of the game, and also to fill out the progress of getting it. It's not a great situation, but this is what the game is about. It's been built on that, and players like myself who like this grind mechanic like it. 

So the presumption I get is: 1 - I want it now and 2 - I dont like the grind. 

We know that platinum can be farmed passively by selling in game items. Therefore, "just buy it with plat" is a viable option. 

This just sounds like grumbling for the sake of grumbling. If the farm for an item is too much, then before burnout go take a break, or stop and do it passively. Trying something tedious like faming Khora in a day can either be good or bad thanks to the RNG. If the latter, well, take a breather now and then. If you MUST have it now, well... plat. There we go. 

[FreeWilliam]

1 hour ago, AvaloN1101 said:

 

But then, if you are in the minority of players who fit that description, wouldn't it be a more constructive use of your time to suggest to DE ideas about the sort of challenges you'd like to see? And I don't mean the whole, "make then super high level starting out" deal. I mean, come up with a rough idea for a game mode, mechanic, or overall implementation that you would be excited to see in the game. Then all the like-minded people will flock to the idea, giving it support or improving on the idea over time, and it will then give DE some new ideas to work with. Just sitting there saying 'challenge me' and then scoffing at something new because it isn't challenging will certainly not do any good in giving you the support you need to get the fun you want from the game. Food for thought.

There's actually a megathread (I think in the dev workshop) about game modes, It's a pretty solid thread.

The challenge thing is probably just coming up because it's SUPER obvious given what we know about Elite so far (only one death, high starting level, it being called 'Elite') and because it's a common request.  I personally don't think just 'raise the level' is all that means (though it would satisfy a frequently posted urge), and I for one would love some sort of randomized ability/weapon disabling so that it's impossible to take anything for granted but think DE is mostly planning on just raising the level/ramp speed this time around. 

That being said, TOTALLY agreed that we should be open to other sorts of game modes and I'm not aware of anyone who's pro-challenge saying 'And never give us parkour racing!', rather it's that this mode seems designed to scratch that particular itch.

[Ghogiel]

On 2018-09-25 at 10:13 AM, DreisterDino said:

 

But in my opinion that is flawed, because if you only play for the loot the fun might fall behind.

When you say ESO was fun and still never played it again once you got everything - i wonder if it was really that much fun?

 

For many players collecting and being rewarded is at least half the fun. That's the hit they crave. It's partially why games are addictive.

So it's probably best to look at it like, "yes ESO was fun, until I got everything and thus it no longer rewards me or is fun"

Edited October 10, 2018 by Ghogiel

[SneakyErvin]

For games such as WF i.e arpgs/lootershooters it is hard to implement actual challenging content.

Few games actually have it within this genre. D3, TL2, PoExile, MH, WF and others simply never get the lasting challenge that people want. Most of the answers to bringing challenge to the table result in bulletsponges and nothing more. WF is also a game that lacks proper and re-occuring boss fights, it is all about mowing down the trash, much similar to D3 rifts. This turns it into more of a bullet-hell situation than anything.

WF has alot it needs to solve before being able to introduce real challenging content. What the game could use are more boss fights with real boss mechanics that make the fights challenging (see GW2). The path leading up to the bosses could be trash-murder-galore. Simply we need a sweeping change to assassination targets. Add really lethal attacks and so on that are graphed for the sake of avoidance. If those graphed attacks hit we should be a pile of pulp.

The boss chick on Sedna is a great example of a boss fight done properly, though she might be on the easier side of things. We need more of those to fight on a regular basis.

I dont think trash will ever be brought up to a challenge level that works, they'll at some point turn into bullet-hell bulletsponges that removes the concept of challenge.

[FreeWilliam]

47 minutes ago, Ghogiel said:

So it's probably best to look at it like, "yes ESO was fun, until I got everything and thus it no longer rewards me or is fun"

I NEVER thought ESO was fun and spent half the time playing wanting to punch Simaris in the face.

The content was interesting but the efficiency mechanic rewards killing mobs that are currently out of sight rather than interacting with them. 

 

22 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

 

I dont think trash will ever be brought up to a challenge level that works, they'll at some point turn into bullet-hell bulletsponges that removes the concept of challenge.

I do bursa swarms in the simulacrum for fun sometimes, and swarms of eximus units (especially with leeches and nullifiers) can keep the challenge up. Warframe actually does have a few 'miniboss' mobs that can fill the 'trash to boss' gap pretty well.  (Also, swarms of Kuva Jesters are hilarious, I was so sad when they fixed that Simulacrum bug)

There's also something viscerally satisfying about charging into a horde of infested that just keeps getting stronger and thicker until you've got to use every trick you've got to keep alive.

It would be better to have some more complicated mobs (I'd rather have bullet sponges than invulnerability gates though, that makes all attacks meaningful even if minor...not saying we should do away with gates as a mechanic but that feels really old school to me), but I think we can satisfy the 100-500 level craving pretty easily. (Not saying higher isn't possible, just that the scaling's a bit weird because almost none of us want to or can dedicate the time to get to those mobs.  We need more of us fighting them to test IMHO)

If they added a mechanic that keeps us from making meme builds (riven affinity equivalent effects in Onslaught based upon collective power use or damage source, random disabling of powers and weapons, etc.) then they could probably get us past that without having to do much for fancy coding.  Those calculations like...one line SQL queries with maybe a rolling window or something.  

I'd LOVE a whole bunch of new bosses and more complicated game modes, even ones I don't play that other people really enjoy, but that can be a LOT more complicated and require a ton of testing.  I want that on the future list, but I'm not sure this new Elite mode needs to wait for that.

Edited October 10, 2018 by FreeWilliam

[Ghogiel]

39 minutes ago, FreeWilliam said:

I NEVER thought ESO was fun and spent half the time playing wanting to punch Simaris in the face.

The content was interesting but the efficiency mechanic rewards killing mobs that are currently out of sight rather than interacting with them. 

 

I'm sure there are a few players that don't bother with content they don't find fun and that loot/account progress doesn't hold their interest, so they just skip that content and either buy the rewards or just make do with out that loot.

 

It's just that loot collection is the main reward mechanism in WF, I imagine the ones being compelled to play because of they enjoy loot collection and account progress out number those others by a lot though.

Edited October 10, 2018 by Ghogiel

[SneakyErvin]

39 minutes ago, FreeWilliam said:

I NEVER thought ESO was fun and spent half the time playing wanting to punch Simaris in the face.

The content was interesting but the efficiency mechanic rewards killing mobs that are currently out of sight rather than interacting with them. 

 

I do bursa swarms in the simulacrum for fun sometimes, and swarms of eximus units (especially with leeches and nullifiers) can keep the challenge up. Warframe actually does have a few 'miniboss' mobs that can fill the 'trash to boss' gap pretty well.  (Also, swarms of Kuva Jesters are hilarious, I was so sad when they fixed that Simulacrum bug)

There's also something viscerally satisfying about charging into a horde of infested that just keeps getting stronger and thicker until you've got to use every trick you've got to keep alive.

It would be better to have some more complicated mobs (I'd rather have bullet sponges than invulnerability gates though, that makes all attacks meaningful even if minor...not saying we should do away with gates as a mechanic but that feels really old school to me), but I think we can satisfy the 100-500 level craving pretty easily. (Not saying higher isn't possible, just that the scaling's a bit weird because almost none of us want to or can dedicate the time to get to those mobs.  We need more of us fighting them to test IMHO)

If they added a mechanic that keeps us from making meme builds (riven affinity equivalent effects in Onslaught based upon collective power use or damage source, random disabling of powers and weapons, etc.) then they could probably get us past that without having to do much for fancy coding.  Those calculations like...one line SQL queries with maybe a rolling window or something.  

I'd LOVE a whole bunch of new bosses and more complicated game modes, even ones I don't play that other people really enjoy, but that can be a LOT more complicated and require a ton of testing.  I want that on the future list, but I'm not sure this new Elite mode needs to wait for that.

What they could do is phase out more trivial mobs the further up we get and replace them with a higher tier. Make squads with several Nox spawn in them along with other tougher units. Make us actually feel like we are fighting the elite. Squads of Bursas and some Scrambus with a few Hyenas, one or two Ambulas or a Raptor backed up by regular corpus troops would be awesome higher up in the levels. Maniacs of different types would be a welcomed addition for the Grineer. Eximus units could also be a more common things, one for each "squad" spawned. Maybe even introduce a new eximus type that increases enemy damage, giving us a tactical opportunity to take out that threat to handle incoming damage.

Simply phase out the lowest foot soldiers and only use them as back up. I think many people would enjoy facing the tougher troops. Obviously the infested would need a major improvement to their troop roster in order to make something like this possible. 

This way they could hold back on the constant damage increases of the mobs and simply make us face more elite units with obviously scaling health, armor and shields aswell. This would bring us more challenging fights while avoiding bullet-hell situations.

[FreeWilliam]

22 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

What they could do is phase out more trivial mobs the further up we get and replace them with a higher tier. Make squads with several Nox spawn in them along with other tougher units. Make us actually feel like we are fighting the elite. Squads of Bursas and some Scrambus with a few Hyenas, one or two Ambulas or a Raptor backed up by regular corpus troops would be awesome higher up in the levels. Maniacs of different types would be a welcomed addition for the Grineer. Eximus units could also be a more common things, one for each "squad" spawned. Maybe even introduce a new eximus type that increases enemy damage, giving us a tactical opportunity to take out that threat to handle incoming damage.

Simply phase out the lowest foot soldiers and only use them as back up. I think many people would enjoy facing the tougher troops. Obviously the infested would need a major improvement to their troop roster in order to make something like this possible. 

This way they could hold back on the constant damage increases of the mobs and simply make us face more elite units with obviously scaling health, armor and shields aswell. This would bring us more challenging fights while avoiding bullet-hell situations.

This sounds excellent and from a technical standpoint I don't see any big barriers there. 

This also would be a good format for making a few types of leaderboards (maybe even frame specific), which is ANOTHER thing people often play for even when there are no rewards.

On the actual topic of rewards, I'm all for a combination of Endo and Kuva and that would be more than enough for me.  (I'd also of course try to dominate with a negative power strength Atlas because real Tenno are hardcore enough to run with tiny little Rumblers) 🙂

[SneakyErvin]

2 minutes ago, FreeWilliam said:

On the actual topic of rewards, I'm all for a combination of Endo and Kuva and that would be more than enough for me.🙂

Yeah, Kuva and Endo would go a long way when it comes to rewards, it would atleast be a reward you need mostly that gives you a reason to revisit the content even if you need nothing else from there. I'd still like to see rare mods from other places get introduced into harder content aswell in order to remove the need to run trivial content for those things.

[AuroraSonicBoom]

It'll just be as bland of a game mode as ESO is, or sorties for the most part. The one levels being high enough to one shot most frames will reduce the amount of choice the player has while adding absolutely nothing to the game. Higher levels arent more fun, they're nothing but a gear check to make players who spent hundreds of hours min maxing their gear feel like they didn't waste their time.

The fact that it has unique, gameplay changing rewards makes me groan because I can see myself having to sit in those missions for hours upon hours until I get all the mods before I can finally leave them behind. The only thing I'm looking forward to is not having to play them anymore.

[Urlan]

38 minutes ago, AuroraSonicBoom said:

It'll just be as bland of a game mode as ESO is, or sorties for the most part. The one levels being high enough to one shot most frames will reduce the amount of choice the player has while adding absolutely nothing to the game. Higher levels arent more fun, they're nothing but a gear check to make players who spent hundreds of hours min maxing their gear feel like they didn't waste their time.

The fact that it has unique, gameplay changing rewards makes me groan because I can see myself having to sit in those missions for hours upon hours until I get all the mods before I can finally leave them behind. The only thing I'm looking forward to is not having to play them anymore.

I can understand that viewpoint!

[AlinaBee]

1 hour ago, AuroraSonicBoom said:

It'll just be as bland of a game mode as ESO is, or sorties for the most part. The one levels being high enough to one shot most frames will reduce the amount of choice the player has while adding absolutely nothing to the game. Higher levels arent more fun, they're nothing but a gear check to make players who spent hundreds of hours min maxing their gear feel like they didn't waste their time.

The fact that it has unique, gameplay changing rewards makes me groan because I can see myself having to sit in those missions for hours upon hours until I get all the mods before I can finally leave them behind. The only thing I'm looking forward to is not having to play them anymore.

then just buy them, Im sure they will cost ~10p after a week, since these alert are as easy as sorties and everyone would farm and sell the mods

[seprent]

i feel like id contribute nothing to the discussion but ill toss a weird ramble coin into this hat 
Warning long & idk if its me just writing or dark theme but stuff in spoilers is invisible unless your mouse is on it so its blue and bold

Spoiler

 

what about the people who just play the game to play it sometimes you just want to turn your brain off an not think and get lost in something thats simple and uncomplicated and or doesn't require much attention for you to do now granted people can do this to different levels with different games like its probably really easy to get lost and not think in skyrim while hmm for honor might be a bit harder to slip into a not thinking just do mentality i do this with war frame alot i get home and just turn off and mindlessly do things on flight of fancy. 

i feel if people set focused goals enjoyment eventually goes away when you got it the thing you wanted because you have to stop and think what do i do now what i do is just well what you akin to the saying of tossing a dart at a dart board and do what the dart lands on broader or vague goals or just sometimes kill stuff and relax since tenno don't have netflix they probably relax via ripping grineer apart and making nef anyo cry when they lose all there money in the index just because baro showed up and you want the shiny object. 

are focused goals bad? nah they do as they are intended to keep you focused on a goal but it comes to a time were that stops to work say near "end game" because the work to reach the goal gets shorter and shorter and where you would find enjoyment in reaching it gets less and less rewarding where as a more broad goal could give you bit of enjoyment since its not Get A to B and kill C now what? for example i get bored go fishing grab a drink some nice music and spend a day or night fishing while the eidolon walks around and wonders why is a tenno not shooting at him while a chroma is busy hitting himself to make the poor thing scared to death (don't do it in pubs it's rude) or spend 60 minutes with friends making a turret fortress in POE with xiphos because we thought it be funny (and it was) 

so while people walk around and talk about end game or what do i do with my oodles and oodles of power my first response would be want a soda sit down relax and fish a bit i understand some people are goal orientated if you got nothing to do you kinda crash while id love some form of endgame were we could just go on and on and on and i know DE means well trying to provide that ESO was a attempt to give that and we made a meta in what a few hours and simplified to as easy as a level 1 defense mission that is when the game decided it wanted to function?

my current prediction is this Elite alerts arrive people play it and get whooped around and have abit of a challenge then youtubers find methods to make it easier because no like grind or something on reddit then what? a meta occurs that makes it piss easy and were back to square 1 and having this end game conversation again oh and plat farmers get a boost to profits for the first week because some people don't even want to do the content they complain about not having  so they can go back doing what ever it is they do

Welcome to the end read all that mess did ya? well good hope you didn't come down here for a TLDR cuz i can't TLDR a mad mans rambling on the internet specially my own so if you read it all good job give your self a cookie oh and zenurik for life  

 

 

 

[MystMan]

45 minutes ago, AlinaBee said:

then just buy them, Im sure they will cost ~10p after a week, since these alert are as easy as sorties and everyone would farm and sell the mods

That isn't really recommended in the grand scheme of things, buying one's way towards the goal. For many, the journey is more important than the goal. The result of skipping straight to the goal means less content to keep you busy, less reason to play the game for a longer period. (and more of those annoying "content drought" threads).

The idea of a great loot farming game is that the farming by itself needs to be entertaining and engaging , a gamer won't mind if it takes long to get specific rewards if they're having fun doing so; what the definition of "fun" here is, will vary for each individual gamer of course. 

Like AuroraSonicBoom mentioned, I also agree about how ESO locks out several of our choices to be effective. Once I got everything out of ESO, I never played it again. Other game modes I got all the rewards from, I still do go back and play them in pubs for the fun of it since they do not have restrictions on my choice of gear.

 

[AlinaBee]

On 2018-10-11 at 3:02 AM, MystMan said:

That isn't really recommended in the grand scheme of things, buying one's way towards the goal. For many, the journey is more important than the goal. The result of skipping straight to the goal means less content to keep you busy, less reason to play the game for a longer period. (and more of those annoying "content drought" threads).

The idea of a great loot farming game is that the farming by itself needs to be entertaining and engaging , a gamer won't mind if it takes long to get specific rewards if they're having fun doing so; what the definition of "fun" here is, will vary for each individual gamer of course. 

Like AuroraSonicBoom mentioned, I also agree about how ESO locks out several of our choices to be effective. Once I got everything out of ESO, I never played it again. Other game modes I got all the rewards from, I still do go back and play them in pubs for the fun of it since they do not have restrictions on my choice of gear.

 

Nothing "entertaining and engaging" about same old missions with zero difficulty and press4win spam while 3 other players can afk, its just a casual farming game anyway. And DE is sadly not giving us anything new or challenging with these alerts either, just bring a frame that cant die or Nezha friend to put Halo on you.

[HeartPurity]

Kuva, no matter how much time you put in to farm it, you will never have enough. (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻