Let's Talk: Content Drought - What DE can learn from this

[CoolDudeMcCool]

As long as DE doesn't look at the poll as a way to guide them in a direction and not a literal "We have to do this because they said so". I like community influence on the game, but I don't want the community taking the reins.

[PR0JAX]

2 hours ago, CoolDudeMcCool said:

As long as DE doesn't look at the poll as a way to guide them in a direction and not a literal "We have to do this because they said so". I like community influence on the game, but I don't want the community taking the reins.

Yeah. At the end of the day, it is their game.  And I already like what DE's doing for the most part.  I'd say they have a decent read on the community about 85-90% of the time.

However, I can just imagine what a nightmare it must be to wade through whatever this is, and how difficult it'd be to learn something from it through the lens of a developer.  It can't hurt to have some good data to fall back on.

Maybe I'll start a new thread on the subject since this one is starting to feel a bit... bloated?  I dunno.

EDIT: Link for anyone who's interested -->  Should We Have A Monthly Poll?

Edited October 8, 2018 by PR0JAX

[Rakosta_Kai]

1 hour ago, (PS4)TheRallykiller said:

Your post count is a badge of honor indirectly displaying your passion for the game and involvement in its community, but what's with the vitriolic tone dressed in upbeat sarcasm?

One thing I love about this community is the generally conversational tone *I feel* the vast majority of fans seem to have with one another regardless of topic...

And I think you're the perfect person to have as a part of the larger discussion on "content droughts" and everything else that goes with it given your purported knowledge familiarity with the subject...

But man Tenno, why not err on the side of being constructive/inquisitive.

 

Thank you for the kind words.

I don't post for post count's sake but because I love this IP.

What you chose to perceive as "vitriol dressed as upbeat sarcasm" was me merely matching your tone and vernacular...I haven't one clue why you would choose to take offense to a tone you actually opted to employ in the first place.

My reply to you was inquisitive (hence all those question marks in it)... You have merely not replied to it with answers as yet.

The questions haven't changed though... If you have insights, do please share them.

 Leyou's revenue information for this year just tells me that Warframe generates considerable revenue and they have plans with and beyond that IP.

I wouldn't personally expect to see a 5yr old game engaging in aggressive expansion but DE aims to surprise and Railjack sounds like a nifty segue into a potentially much larger star chart so anything is possible. 

With Anthem releasing in a few months, DE might be planning to do big things to keep things fresh and lively around here....I don't know.

But if you do know...Do share.

 

 

[Hypernaut1]

2 hours ago, PR0JAX said:

Yeah. At the end of the day, it is their game.  And I already like what DE's doing for the most part.  I'd say they have a decent read on the community about 85-90% of the time.

However, I can just imagine what a nightmare it must be to wade through whatever this is, and how difficult it'd be to learn something from it through the lens of a developer.  It can't hurt to have some good data to fall back on.

Maybe I'll start a new thread on the subject since this one is starting to feel a bit... bloated?  I dunno.

EDIT: Link for anyone who's interested -->  Should We Have A Monthly Poll?

You know, Even the developers themselves can't always do what they want in the order they want to. That poll would be practically useless.

Edited October 8, 2018 by Hypernaut1

[PR0JAX]

1 minute ago, Hypernaut1 said:

You know, Even the developers themselves can't always do what they want in the order they want to. That poll would be practically useless.

This is true, but it can still help them plan or get ahead of things.  If the majority want something they can't provide, they can say it's on the way or even look into new hires.  Every poll is flawed by their very nature, but sometimes you can see trends that really help.

[Nitro747]

So, just right off the bat, we've been 10 months without a decent actual content update. Everything we got so far was either a rehashed game mode, bandaid fixes of an alternative gimmicky skin for Excalibur and literal CTRL+C CTRL+V content. That's it. The Sacrifice quest was 20 minute long and half of it was just like any other mission we have ever played in this game and literally half of the things DE hyped so much about it NEVER happened in the quest or weren't even mentioned. I know this post is quite heated up and I rant a bit, but these are problems that have been lingering and dragging for far too long.

HOWEVER, there is one nasty reason why it feels so dry on content even though we had some small things here and there and we all know about how big Fortuna is going to be. And this nasty reason is how DE is happy enough to release unfinished content and never touching on said content again. Remember the new UI? They released the new UI with just some menus done. It has been almost 4 months ever since then and more than half of the UI screens are still the old one! Its almost painful to open one screen with the new UI and the next screen still has the same old UI. To add insult to injury, DE CHARGES US if we want to add a different theme to our UI other than the Vitruvian and default ones. This wouldn't be a problem if over 80% of this game's content wasn't the fruit of DE releasing a half complete content, said content being either bad or just so saltless that players never use these assets again, and then DE pretends to forget about the content and never try to improve on their already established ideas. Then, after 2 or 3 years, they realize how some content is bad and players complain about it, and their brilliant way for them to fix it is by releasing some band-aid mod that is going to drop on their next super duper "endgame" mode. Not only that, but DE is content enough to have primitive important game mechanics and never improving on it. They probably must think that "hey, if its not broken, don't fix it, right?" Wrong. First of all, broken is a compliment to some stuff of this game, like matchmaking, trading or completing quests. Second of all, no one with the ambitions of DE should be content with such shameless primitive matchmaking and trading system. And I'm not even talking about peer to peer connection. It took them years to realize that players could get a better way to check what teammates are bringing to the missions. Imagine how many centuries it will take them to notice how we need an actual decent matchmaking system.

Without further ado, here is the list of the most lazy and mediocre things in Warframe. It's mind boggling to see how DE only cares about releasing 40000 guns per year and a giant map that is wide as an ocean but deep as a puddle, instead of actually improving the already-established content in this game:

1- New Player Experience and Progression: It's funny to see how DE only talks about making the new content "available" to newer players right away all the while they completely ignore for years the most important things a new player actually cares about. Making content with new players in mind DOES NOT MEAN JUST MAKING IT LOW LEVEL AND JUST FORGETTING ABOUT ALL THE REST! Almost everyone I know who played Warframe, myself included, plays this game because AND ONLY BECAUSE there was a friend behind us encouraging us, explaining how this game works, and telling us what we have to do in order to progress in the game. After the quest Vor's Prize, players are simply released drifting away in this gigantic solar system with no compass or any other indicators whatsoever as to what the heck they are supposed to do. The only thing that slightly hints them on ways to progress is the junction sections, but even so they have such weird, nonsensical requirements like having to scan 578785368 cephalon fragments on Mars. The game NEVER tells them what in the Void are those and how important they are and that they actually reveal a huge piece of lore, for instance. Also, this single requirement was the reason 2 close friends of mine gave up on playing Warframe forever, despite my fanboy self encouraging them to keep playing...

Another big, BIG problem with new player experience and progression is how DE completely ignores that 90% of their lore and story content was developed and displayed in long-dead events of years ago. Who the heck is Salad V? Why is Nef Anyo constantly babbling about the Void? HOW IS ALAD V STILL ALIVE AFTER WE KILLED HIM? Why we have to collect Ambulas Nav Beacons (whatever those are) and who the heck is Frohd Beck again? All of this was shown in the form of (very) old events that are long gone. If any new player has 1% of curiosity and want to knows the answers to these questions, he MUST READ THE WIKIA! REALLY!?!?!? After the event is done, DE just slaps a boss fight in whatever planet and call that a go. This is simply shameful. Why not make use of all that good-ol voice acting and missions and turn these long dead events into mini quests to at least help players situate themselves and have a bare-minimal idea of why the heck he is going to kill Random Corpus Scientist #46? The answer is that they were probably too busy on the next batch of content they will never touch again. Ever.

2- Primitive, barebones matchmaking: Its just bad. It's lazy. It's barebones. AND IT ALMOST NEVER WORKS PROPERLY. What's the point of me going out of my way to set my max tolerable ping limit to 250 when 75% of pub matches I join the ping is over 500 and it feels like the host is streaming and downloading movies at the same time? Why the matchmaking never puts me into a squad, never looks for a squad and instead just starts counting down the timer to the mission even though it says pretty clear there are 4 or 5 open squads? Why there aren't simple options of "let me host only" or "let me be a guest only", specially with lots and lots of people acknowledging that their internet is not suited for hosting? Why there are so many instances I jump in a mission with open slots and never have said slots filled while I play the mission? Last, but not least: why we are still using this primitive matchmaking system? Why can't we have a lobby where we can actually look like to other player's loadout properly? I have lost the count of how many times the matchmaking didn't look for a team, instantly put me as a host and started the counting down, I trusted the matchmaking would work and people would drop in the mission but in the end I complete the mission without a single soul joining; or with just one dude joining. It is simply shameful that after all these years all DE did was to just change the order in which the loadout equipment are shown and slightly increasing the top left box that shows player's loadout.

There is no way to know how long a team is willing to go on an endless relic cracking run before you actually jump in and ask. There is no way to prepare a good team for it without using the recruit chat or knowing your teammates beforehand. There is no way to know who are your teammates without pressing the tiny "profile" button and being awkwardly transported to a profile screen that shows irrelevant stuff. Using the recruit chat for these is just yet another band-aid fix for DE's laziness and lack of interest in improving core gameplay aspects.

3- Level design: I was surprised when DE said they would re-work one tile set from the game. I was mad when they confirmed it was Corpus Gas City. Why? Because its one of the few that don't really need a rework. There are a bunch of outdated, poorly designed and uninspired tile sets in desperate need of a rework, like Europa, Eris, Uranus, Corpus Ship; and they just decided to pick one of the few that don't really need. Also, if its going to take months to update a map and deliver only ONE tile set rework per year, retaining new players and keeping veterans investing in this game will be much, much harder. Half of this game's maps were made with movement 1.0 in mind. It is, again, insulting, to have a game in 2018 using something as outdated in concept as 2013 and with no prospects of updating and keeping up with the current game. How long will it take for them to finally realize that Eris is a horrid tileset not because of the Infested monsters but because of horribly misplaced out-of-bonds teleports, claustrophobic poorly designed corridors with chewed gum splattered all over the place and being a super dark place without an option for a flashlight? Or how long will they realize that Europa makes players sad not because its a cold desolate place but because of it being a gigantic map full of giant empty areas and with an annoying, ridiculous constant cold damage that makes no sense?

4: Overal lazy content and "fire and forget" content: Ever since after the release of POE, the quality of new content has fallen drastically, and DE did little to NOTHING to improve on older content that is already there. First we got Plague Star, in which they basically just made available the caves that were already there (empty boring caves), made us repeat the same bounty over and over again and as a "boss" fight made us fight a rehashed version of Lephantis. It is literally the same model enemy with almost identical abilities, only different thing is the color scheme. The event wasn't just a big flop because we were all overhyped about it and for the first time in ages we got decent rewards for the event. Then we got Ghouls. Ghouls are cool, they are actual new enemies with cool moves, but their event is, again, "REPEAT THE SAME SORTIE MISSIONS OVER AND OVER AGAIN". That's it. After this we got the """""""new"""""" Eidolons. Why "new"? They are all the Teralys. Except bigger, with a different color and their right arm instead of a tree its a rock. Or some random sentient thing. Again, the same concept of CTRL+C CTRL+V of content being slapped on players faces with the audacity of being called "new". To make things even worse, they axed raids, which was something no one asked for and was the only game mode that actually required more than two neurons to complete and the only thing that could be called "endgame". It was good making arcanes more accessible for players, but it should never have come to the cost of removing content. Then we got "Kuva Survival", which essentially is just a survival mission except it is on the Kuva Fortress and we can earn Kuva as slow as we could get with the old methods. We then got Sanctuary Onslaught which is, AGAIN, another rehashed survival mode, except that this time its even more "meta" annoying; they didn't even changed how the rooms on the Sanctuary onslaught look or work. Its just CTRL+C CTRL+V of old game assets with a minor twist being advertised as something super duper new and innovative. Khora was released without a quest and in a sorry state, pretty much throwing away the gigantic hype they built up with all the Sigor Savat lore codex entries we got from Ghouls. The Sacrifice introduced nothing new to players, despite the unnecessary hype behind it. No boss fights, no new mechanics, no new tilesets. Just some dialogue, the same sort of quest missions here and there and that's it, cliffhanger ending. Umbra is just an Excalibur with a scarf that behaves like a specter does when you transfer out. Again, more CTRL+C CTRL+V of old content, nothing new. Revenant was butchered in concept and had a mini-quest, which is better than nothing. And here we are. Did DE improved any of these modes? No. Did they added anything actually new to the game in the past 10 months? NO. 

Then there is the "fire and forget" content DE releases. One of the coolest things that they released so far is, ironically, Frame Fighter and DE already said off the bat they will never touch that piece of content again. Although they didn't stated it as bluntly as they did with Frame Fighter, the same thing happened to a looooot of other content released so far. One quick good example is the Index. You notice how the mission node says "Index: endurance"? Those ":" hints that they clearly had in mind to introduce other game modes for The Index but, again, DE was content enough to just release the bare-bones, bare minimum necessary to call it "new". And so it is the only form of farming for credits we have is by repeating the same mission type over and over and over again.

And here's why this so called content "drought" is beginning to make people uneasy: it's not because "there's nothing left to do in the game". It's because there are few things left to do in this game that actually matters. And it's the same thing since 3 years. Leveling up weapons, getting frames, blitzing through missions, grinding this and that, and that's it. And there is a lot more to do in the game, but it either doesn't matter or is in a sorry broken state and DE never tried to improve it in the past years. We could be doing a lot of things, but they are all rightfully disregarded because the devs themselves threw these contents in the trash can. Conclave? Every player tells you PVP in this game is ass; plus, there is no incentive for playing it. Lunaro? DE released it, never touched on it again, even up to this day we didn't get the Operator Lunaro thingy, and is as dead as Tutankhamen himself; suffers from the same fate of Conclave. Archwing? It's trash and has never been improved. Nothing has been made to improve the existing game modes. Invasions seem to have nice stuff hidden in concept but is never developed. Every defense mission plays the same, every capture mission plays the same, so on and so forth. We could have more variety of these missions and older, unpolished content to distract our minds but nope, only a few things out of the hundreds of other things we can do in this game matters. And unfortunately the truth is that the same thing will happen with recently released content. Kuva Survival will never be more than just a rehashed survival mission that earns you mundane amounts of Kuva. Same goes to Sanctuary Onslaught. The Gantulist, Hydrolyst and Hemocyte will always look like CTRL+C CTRL+V content. So on and so forth.

The content is already there in the game DE, you just need to polish it and focus a little bit on what you already have in your hands. We players could be enjoying Lunaro matches, PVP, clan wars, Raids, Archwing, or just really paying more attention to all the other mission types we already have in the game while we wait for Fortuna. But instead, by making all of this content not matter, you spoiled your playerbase, and now it constantly demands for something "new" so that they can keep their attention span concentrated on this "new" content for the next 2 months, until all the bugs and mediocre design starts to bother people off of it. Just don't commit in just doing short-lived projects.

 

To all the DE white knights who are so condescending towards DE and will try to justify anything with the good'ol "bu... but they are making Fortuna!". Yeah, I know it. Everybody knows it. But remember that this is no excuse to either put a halt on the production of other content for the game, much less an excuse to release sub-par, low quality content before they release this gigantic batch of content Fortuna is supposed to be. Supposed. Last year before the POE release we still got enough decent content even before its full release while they were making from ground zero the Plains. We got Chains of Harrow. We got Focus 2.0 for crying out loud. So instead of bootlicking a company when you read someone providing criticism about it, just remember that you are allowed to read stuff you don't agree with without becoming completely offended and forcing yourself to defend something that you don't even belong to. Secondly, remember that Warframe is, indeed, failing in numbers. People are stopping to play Warframe quite rapidly and these numbers could have stalled at some point have DE addressed many points of criticism, instead of just hearing how much people love them and how wonderful everything they do is.

 

 

[Vox_Preliator]

Well yeah, if you are just always gonna say "Nah that doesn't count" to everything, then of course it'll seem like there isn't any content.

Points for effort, but this whole thing is pretty uninformed.

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

Let me get ready...

[SpicyDinosaur]

Can you summarize that, please?

[Nitro747]

2 hours ago, Vox_Preliator said:

Well yeah, if you are just always gonna say "Nah that doesn't count" to everything, then of course it'll seem like there isn't any content.

Points for effort, but this whole thing is pretty uninformed.

Uninformed in what sense then? So you think that getting old, already existing content, repainting it and calling it a "new boss" and say this is the new update for the month is acceptable with the excuse of "bu-but they are so awesome!" or "bu-but they are making Four Tuna!"? I'm not talking just about Plague Star, I'm talking about pretty much everything we received advertised as new content since January.

Kuva Survival is... just Survival. Survival missions have been in this game since eons. Zero effort put into making that game-mode, or you think they actually spent time making the life support capsules turn red and that's it?

Sanctuary Onslaught is also Survival. With a portal. End. They snipped rooms from existing tile sets, put a random generator of mobs in there and done.

Umbra is a specter. We have this since I dont even know when. You just don't need to throw a gear item to summon him and that's it. In terms of content the Sacrifice pales in comparison to other quests as well. I loved the quest and was fanboying hard when people complained about no boss fights or about Ballas just dying with a stab in the stomach but that's regarding the story in itself, not what the quest offers to players.

Edited October 9, 2018 by Nitro747

[(PSN)LordBartimus]

Alright, Imma take my time replying to what you said, because I think it's deserving of it. 

First off, what genre of game is Warframe? It's a grindy looter shooter game, right? So to complain you have no content to do is probably impossible unless a) you've played since the beginning or b) you went on a two month bender of just getting everything. That means all weapons, warframes, companions etc and then formaing them. So, unless you have mastered every item, unlocked and maxed every focus node, made every type of zaw, got a R3 Arcane of every type, build every type of amp, and gotten every mod, there is stuff to do. Now whether doing all that is entertaining or not is entirely up to the user. For me, I'd rather scoop my own eyes out with an oversized spoon than grind out another arcane set. 

I'm also going to address your "broken" topics. Trade is far from user friendly and is boring and a hassle to do, but it's not broken. If you're on the boat of we need an auction house, I'm gonna go ahead and disagree with you because now you're just cutting out player interaction. Everquest went without a auction house for years and did alright. 

Completing quests you claim is broken, but I've never had an issue with that. Usually, if it doesn't trigger right away, I just relog. Server issues happen. 

Matchmaking is a dud and I'm not afraid to admit that. But it's not as bad as you make it out to be. For every game I've had someone running warframe on a potatoe I've had several where everything works fine. 

Now, a point by point of my agreements/disagreements.

1. New Player Experience. Yes, DE does basically nothing to explain anything in this game to new players. As someone who just watched their wife go through, you're taught to run, jump, shoot, and use abilities. That's it. But in my opinion, that's okay. As a new player back in pc and then as a returning player in PS4 I had to learn all that myself. And if I can do it, most anyone else can to. For content, you believe my opinion may line with yours - there is now a ton of new player friendly content out but not a lot is being done for higher level play. They should start focusing more on late game content. 

2. Matchmaking. We should definitely have the option to host or be a guest. That's absolutely true. And we can see loadouta before a mission, but you have to actual group up. If you have the "Public" matchmaking set then you join another group at your own peril really. It's line in an mmo, you either take the time to craft your group and set yourselves up, or you get a pug group and risk it with people who may do their own thing. 

3. Level design. I don't have a problem with it personally. So I'm not gonna interject here. 

4. Old content. That's just what happens man. WoW for example. If wasn't until cataclysm before any of the older zones, dungeons, and quests were touched. Lunaro may be dead, archwing may not be getting the love it deserves, but that doesn't mean those things will be that way forever. The rate that old stuff gets updated sucks for sure, but it's not the end times. 

I'm not super happy with how long we've gone without decent content either. I'm on a console so it's even worse now because I'm one to two months behins you. And in the meantime of waiting I have just been getting on to do sorties, that's it. But it's a smaller team than most other devs that unfortunately they focus on much larger updates so smaller stuff sits in back burner for awhile. But movement 1.0 got reworked. Damage 1.0 got reworked. Weapons got reworked. It just takes time. 

[Vox_Preliator]

59 minutes ago, Nitro747 said:

Uninformed in what sense then? So you think that getting old, already existing content, repainting it and calling it a "new boss" and say this is the new update for the month is acceptable with the excuse of "bu-but they are so awesome!" or "bu-but they are making Four Tuna!"? I'm not talking just about Plague Star, I'm talking about pretty much everything we received advertised as new content since January.

Kuva Survival is... just Survival. Survival missions have been in this game since eons. Zero effort put into making that game-mode, or you think they actually spent time making the life support capsules turn red and that's it?

Sanctuary Onslaught is also Survival. With a portal. End. They snipped rooms from existing tile sets, put a random generator of mobs in there and done.

Umbra is a specter. We have this since I dont even know when. You just don't need to throw a gear item to summon him and that's it. In terms of content the Sacrifice pales in comparison to other quests as well. I loved the quest and was fanboying hard when people complained about no boss fights or about Ballas just dying with a stab in the stomach but that's regarding the story in itself, not what the quest offers to players.

Exactly, that is exactly my point.

You don't like it, therefore it doesn't count.  For that matter, you seem to believe that effort in creation is directly proportional to how much the product is enjoyed, which isn't really how things work, not even remotely.

To you, everything is "just" something else.  What possible "content" could they provide that couldn't or wouldn't be met with "Well, it's just XYZ except ABC"?  Every gun that shoots bullets is just Braton with different numbers.  Almost every ability is just deal damage or debuff enemies, or heal or buff ourselves.  Fortuna is just Plains but cold, Eris is just Pluto but dark, Sedna is just Saturn with higher numbers.  Those statements are just downright silly, so why would something like "Gantulyst and Hydrolyst are just Teralysts, Kuva and Onslaught are just survival, and Umbra is just a specter" be any more meaningful?

You mention going back and polishing older content, except that this year has had that in spades, breathing life back into many weapons as well as frames, to say nothing of numerous fixes and adjustments.  Melee 3.0 is on the way, changing the way one uses that entire category of weapons.  Archwing and Conclave are neglected, sure, but those aren't in dire need of touching-up, and it's probable that Archwing stuff will be done when it's more relevant, closer to Railjack.  Raids were broken, and while I'm disappointed I never bothered to do one before they were removed, the numbers spoke for themselves, it wasn't feasible to keep something so high-maintenance around when so few players used it.  Nothing can force someone to like Conclave, and while I think more people could stand to get over themselves, grow up, and would enjoy it if they weren't so stubborn, making it more prominent would be seen as intrusive and would cause discontent. 

[Nitro747]

4 minutes ago, Vox_Preliator said:

Exactly, that is exactly my point.

You don't like it, therefore it doesn't count.  For that matter, you seem to believe that effort in creation is directly proportional to how much the product is enjoyed, which isn't really how things work, not even remotely.

To you, everything is "just" something else.  What possible "content" could they provide that couldn't or wouldn't be met with "Well, it's just XYZ except ABC"?  Every gun that shoots bullets is just Braton with different numbers.  Almost every ability is just deal damage or debuff enemies, or heal or buff ourselves.  Fortuna is just Plains but cold, Eris is just Pluto but dark, Sedna is just Saturn with higher numbers.  Those statements are just downright silly, so why would something like "Gantulyst and Hydrolyst are just Teralysts, Kuva and Onslaught are just survival, and Umbra is just a specter" be any more meaningful?

You mention going back and polishing older content, except that this year has had that in spades, breathing life back into many weapons as well as frames, to say nothing of numerous fixes and adjustments.  Melee 3.0 is on the way, changing the way one uses that entire category of weapons.  Archwing and Conclave are neglected, sure, but those aren't in dire need of touching-up, and it's probable that Archwing stuff will be done when it's more relevant, closer to Railjack.  Raids were broken, and while I'm disappointed I never bothered to do one before they were removed, the numbers spoke for themselves, it wasn't feasible to keep something so high-maintenance around when so few players used it.  Nothing can force someone to like Conclave, and while I think more people could stand to get over themselves, grow up, and would enjoy it if they weren't so stubborn, making it more prominent would be seen as intrusive and would cause discontent. 

1- Who said I don't like it ESO or Tridolon fights?
2- "What possible "content" could they provide that couldn't or wouldn't be met with "Well, it's just XYZ except ABC"?" How about new enemies? New maps? Actual new game modes? There is just too much to add. Had SO, Tridolon, etc not been CTRL+C CTRL+V content, I wouldn't be here complaining.

3- Yeah, players spoke about raids... by literally protesting against it. If you never bothered to even play a Raid and then say "they were broken", then just don't bother touching the subject. They were not broken. They needed polishing. Just like literally 90% of this game content.

There is just too much dead content in this game. You might think DE is the best thing to ever happen on planet Earth, and that Warframe is a perfect game with no flaws, but the numbers are there to prove it. The playerbase is shrinking and its not just the good'ol "oh, it's just normal, people will stop playing Warframe between content". Also, that diagnoses how Warframe currently has low replayability vallue and people will stop playing it once the hype is over after a couple weeks.

Edited October 9, 2018 by Nitro747

[-UCPP-]

What I see is a good criticism on a game someone wants to make better and express his concerns.

But, why do I see players going at this mans neck like he did something wrong? Why should someone who loves Warframe not express his concerns about the state it is in? You cant just tell this man to delete warframe when he wants better of this game. Stop telling this man to delete the game for no reason at all and be respectful.

Time for my own concern... These last few devstreams are the most boring things I have watched. I have seen K-drive so much now that it actually boring to watch. Show something new? Talk about future plans? We've seen it already and enough is enough. 

[Nitro747]

10 minutes ago, -UCPP- said:

What I see is a good criticism on a game someone wants to make better and express his concerns.

But, why do I see players going at this mans neck like he did something wrong? Why should someone who loves Warframe not express his concerns about the state it is in? You cant just tell this man to delete warframe when he wants better of this game. Stop telling this man to delete the game for no reason at all and be respectful.

Time for my own concern... These last few devstreams are the most boring things I have watched. I have seen K-drive so much now that it actually boring to watch. Show something new? Talk about future plans? We've seen it already and enough is enough. 

Because you are not allowed to provide any feedback with a single drop of criticism to either Warframe or DE. If you do it, you have to blatantly state how much love you hold for DE and how grateful you are and even so you'll get flack and people will immediately assume you hate DE, Warframe and be told to uninstall the game and be reminded how DE is the best gaming company in the entire world (as it literally happened in this thread). That's how it works here.

[(XBOX)firestar4673]

42 minutes ago, Nitro747 said:

Again, you are really not making the right comparison here. You probably didn't even study statistics in college and is trying to pass as an internet intellectual here. Player retention has dropped, player evasion has increased. Warframe was consistently having AT LEAST 65k players online and around 90k players at most even during the worst of this year's content drought so far. Now it barely reaches 45k on peak and has an average of 35k players. You just can't compare it with how many players there was 5 years ago and say "see? thats 30k players in growth" and turn a blind eye to a pretty obvious problem. May you never have to own a business or at least hire a decent employee to handle most of important stuff for you...

If you don't take the word of "armchair devs" and "statistic wizards" for granted, how about Steve himself coming into a devstream and literally apologizing for the current content drought and that they messed up big this time? They did the same for the Beasts of Sanctuary update because the feedback wasn't good. And what is this post doing here? Providing feedback to them on how to make "content drought" hit less hard should Warframe have to come under it again by polishing the game and improving on forgotten assets of the game.

Wow

 

 

I'm posting this on r/iamverysmart

[True_Naeblis]

Some of what was said was definite hyperbole, but it is very, very true that DE releases content, changes, and updates then never fully polishes them. The UI rework had no business being released in its current state, yet alone being a feature that's charged to fully "utilize." PoE admittedly by DE's own mouth is too grindy, yet it hasn't been adjusted and won't be until after Fortuna and likely still not fully. The Focus system is still unpolished. Eidolon hunts and PoE are bugged to no end with some major issues that are thoroughly documented by players. Little things like never addressing changes to weapon magazine size or max ammo changes despite repeatedly being asked about them--something that would take minutes to look into and respond on.

There are a lot of great things about this game, but the lack of true polish on so many things is ridiculous, and hiding behind "permanent beta" isn't an excuse for not completing projects after release or taking the time to get them right before pushing them out. That and abysmal failures to hear what the players are actually asking for in things like the Daily Tribute rework, Endless Kuva Farms, and frames that desperately need attention to be viable are the things that push me away from the game and cause me to spend elsewhere.

[TheKazz91]

Preamble) you're not wrong but I also think you're not really giving credit where credit is due. DE isn't a megalith studio they have around 220 employees last I heard and Warframe is often compared to games like Destiny made by Bungie which is sitting around 750 employees and the game is free. The fact that they are even in the same ball park as AAA studios that are typically 3-4 times their size is testament enough to the effort they are putting in. Would it be nice if they could do more sure but just keep in mind that the larger they get the less wiggle room there is for them to take risks and try new things especially with Warframe's free to play model. 

1) Yes the new player experience is probably the worst of any game I have ever played. If it were not for twitch streamers and youtubers explaining the game systems and answering questions I never would have kept playing. The scanning mission on mars was particularly frustrating for me as well I spent about a week trying to figure out how to get the stupid scanners (kept thinking that they would just give me like 5 so I could complete that or that I bought them from simaris or that they where a drop) Wasn't until I asked a streamer where how the heck you get scanners that I learned you just by them off the market for credits. Personally I'd love to see them redo the new player experience and introduce all the lore that is in the cepholon fragments as voiced audio clips or short cut scenes and maybe some mini story arcs that you go through on each planet that tells you who the heck everyone is and why we want to seemingly commit mass genocide against them. 

2) Eh I don't have a problem with the match making. The biggest problem is that it doesn't always select the most appropriate host. But it is still probably better than waiting 30 seconds in a que to run a 30 second capture mission. 

3) The fact that they are even bothering to go back and redo the old tile sets is pretty dope if you ask me. Most other games don't get that much love for old content. try firing up WoW and going in to BC areas... at least the vanilla areas got some love during cat but BC is just awful when you compare it side by side with the newest expansion areas. And again keep the team size in mind how good the new reworked area is looking and compare it to other triple A titles that are out now. 

4) your right the copy pasta content is on the uninspired side but I actually don't think plague star was that bad. the worst part about the eidolons is that they are only up for a limited time, and I am 100% ok with them never touching frame fighter again as I'd much rather see new content than updated minigames. 

 

[TheKazz91]

sorry double post

Edited October 9, 2018 by TheKazz91
double post

[Nitro747]

7 minutes ago, True_Naeblis said:

Some of what was said was definite hyperbole

Some people really, REALLY don't understand what exaggeration and hyperbole is in a critique text. Meanwhile there are others who are literally sitting here waiting for anyone to respond and react with a "haha" just to disprove any point criticizing the game.

Edited October 9, 2018 by Nitro747

[birdobash]

@Nitro747 Im going to upvote this post because what I see is well placed criticism and a player who wholeheartedly wants to make the game a better place.

I agree with almost all of your points you have laid out for us here, the only one I'm personally having little issue with is that teensy part about ping, lack of people and poor connection in matchmaking.

For myself personally i "usually" have no trouble with connection and usually end up in full squads or immediately get a full squad in matchmaking, but im certain that the fact I live in North America where the largest majority of warframe players reside helps this issue IMMENSELY. I'm positive that people with poor internet or that live in any other place outside of NA will have problems with the wobbly design the matchmaking system has, so I'm sure you definitely have a valid point there about the matchmaking.

To summarize my opinions on the rest,

yes I don't like how the game squads you up with people, there should be lobbies.

I agree with the whole thing about "new content" basically just reskins and copy and paste of a lot of existing resources, tbh I feel like 2018 pre-fortuna has just been a year of skins and reskinning (haha get it, we got nidus, vauban, and nezha skins, and reskinned content ;D).

A lot of the other stuff I just straight up agree with, at the end of the day DE is still an indie company, but the quality of content they're pumping out HAS been kinda just copy and paste but with a modifier added on. I also don't like the fact they have a habit of never touching certain parts of the game after implementing them. I'm not sure how big the workforce is at DE, considering its an indie company but a pretty successful one so far, I wouldve thought they would have enough people hired and working to create actual NEW content that isn't reskinned "gimme 2 days to slap together a new game mode" and then send a 2 day job out as a "revolutionary" new game mode.

Judging from Steve Sinclairs fatigue he sometimes shows on stream, they either don't have enough workers, or DE is not distributing and completing work efficiently enough. My guess is that since Warframe is such a Frankenstein of a game, with patches and content slapped together with glue to make the beast, the actual game has become unstable with bugs and glitches so when they try to add new content it ends up breaking a lot, meaning they spend a S#&$ ton of the percentage of time working trying to stomp bugs and glitches out, and it only gets worse and worse the more they add.

[birdobash]

7 minutes ago, Nitro747 said:

Some people really, REALLY don't understand what exaggeration and hyperbole is in a critique text.

Exxageration and hyperbole is a completely valid rhetorical device and can and should be used as much as it can be whenever it is appropriate and seems good to do so :3 

Sometimes I wonder if some people on the internet took grade 10-11 english in high school. I mean of course there are people who haven't and thats very unfortunate, but there are ALSO people who just sat around and didn't pay attention in class. and hey look, thats totally fine, but then its your own fault if you can't understand the OP's use of it in the post and you should not be blaming and shaming the original poster, you should blame yourselves.

Edited October 9, 2018 by birdobash

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

2 hours ago, xcenic said:

i have pay around 1000$ in this year and no im no happy! you excuse have no point. 

The point is that the game is a free to play game and you dont ->have<- to pay money for it... for a game that does not force you to pay money for it, its extremely good.

Obviously that was the point..

Edited October 9, 2018 by (PS4)Ghost--00--

[FireSegment]

if you are gonna provide criticism without acknowledge their limitation, and refused to put yourself in their shoe, then seriously, it's not criticism, it's just ranting. A lot of your point regarding the matchmaking and level design are, in that order, either unfair, or just your personal opinions.

Changing is taking risk, update matchmaking is a risk of shifting the very infrastructure of the game, and DE only took that risk once - PoE. Changing level design is accepting a huge risk that a futuristic movement 3.0 could render it useless again (movement 3.0? futuristic? hmm.... why does this sound familiar). And in either case, DE took the risk to build and to test new things with the hope that it would circling back to the old contents, and sweep them in with the movement, that's what they did best, that's their approach to what you called "fire and forget"  (also, that part of yours is just a stupid chain of rants in my view ... u are not being constructive there dude) and short-lived project.

DE are famous for taking extreme risk for shooking the game to it very core, multiple time, but one can only risk so much one at a time. They already in a position of having to create new content much rapidly than they can re-polish them for years now, this is nothing new. It would be nice to be able to convince them that "it's okay, you don't have to put new stuff out all the time, just fix your old stuff, we will be here nonetheless" so that they can actually prioritize polish old context. But this whole "content drought" are in effect sending them the completely opposite message. In other word, with this thread ... you among others are telling DE that you don't trust them, that they still have to chasing new player with new content, that stop adding content and start polishing is still a great risk. 

Edited October 9, 2018 by FireSegment

[True_Naeblis]

18 minutes ago, birdobash said:

Exxageration and hyperbole is a completely valid rhetorical device and can and should be used as much as it can be whenever it is appropriate and seems good to do so :3 

Sometimes I wonder if some people on the internet took grade 10-11 english in high school. I mean of course there are people who haven't and thats very unfortunate, but there are ALSO people who just sat around and didn't pay attention in class. and hey look, thats totally fine, but then its your own fault if you can't understand the OP's use of it in the post and you should not be blaming and shaming the original poster, you should blame yourselves.

I criticized his use of it because it didn't add to the thread; it just make an already long post even more long-winded. It also made what could have been valid points come off as flippant because they were only supported by hot air and not actual arguments as to what's wrong and why and how it should be changed. The number of times the OP has already replied in the thread speaks to a likely lack of objectivity to begin with. Your spelling and punctuation issues when you're trying to tell others how short sighted their understanding of rhetoric and literary devices is doesn't really come off well, all the more because you're being pretty condescending.

Anyway, I mentioned that the OP had valid points and I see no issue with also pointing out that what could have been a good presentation on the need for change digressed into a mess that many won't read through and many others will not find worth taking seriously because of how it's presented. There's a thread pinned at the top of this section on how to give good feedback that you both could benefit from.