Harder enemy types for high level content

[akrid45]

Now just watched this Just cause 4 video on their enemy types!!

Recommend you watch the video before commenting so you get the full picture of what i'm suggesting  

 

And it got me thinking that warframe could borrow some ideas from this to make high level content more difficult and not just increase the enemy level to 100. 

For example the super elite guy that was immune to bullet dmg. warframe could add enemies like that but is vulnerable to melee weapons, powers and explosive weapons but not have a super high dmg weapon like heavy gunners and bombards do. or the for example the titan with the rail gun but in warframe it would be a heavy slow unit with opticore that can even hit players bullet jumping really fast. there are a lot of good enemy types in the video that could work in warframe and make higher level content more challenging without having to increase level to 100+

[GnarlsDarkley]

10 minutes ago, akrid45 said:

For example the super elite guy that was immune to bullet dmg. warframe could add enemies like that but is vulnerable to melee weapons,

Sortie 3 Assassination Shotgun only says hello.

Warframe's (random) variety is its own problem here. And the "best" agument is: DE just don't want warframe an endgame oriented or even a hard game.

Loose quote "we want the player to dive into this game for about 30 minutes to an hour and have fun in some missions"

 

But they try to add "difficult" enemies. Did you try Eidolons? Different mechanics combined is like the idea you proposed. 

Taking your "melee only inviincible" enemy is also an pushover. You just press E one time and it's gone too. Nothing hard about it. Except you make it a bulletsponge...but we all know that sweet (boring) Lephantis Sortie 3

Edited October 6, 2018 by GnarlsDarkley

[(PSN)robotwars7]

that woman's voice made that video kinda cringey. anyway:

- Cloaking enemies are not a challenge, invisibility is countered by anyhting with an AoE effect, and lord knows we have those in spades.

- we already have snipers (Ballistas), they can one-shot people at higher levels. fighting the same enemies that just do more damage is not the same as a challenge.

- people complain already about tanky enemies being bullet sponges, we already have enemies that deploy drones (Corpus Techs, Tusk Grineer units), it's just another thing to shoot down.

- grenade launching enemies were tried before (Nightwatch Reavers are armed with Tonkors). they were just one-hit BS enemies without the need to hit you directly, and people complained.

- we already have shield enemies, they are an annoyance at best. anyone using a weapon that fires anything other than regular bullets (energy waves, explosives, beams etc.) can rinse them as easily as any other trash mob. 

- we have RPG units. Bombards have been described as tanky and annoying at higher levels. Seeking missiles are not a challenge if you keep distance and use parkour, typically running towards the missile and jumping over it works as it can't turn tightly enough to start chasing you again, so it explodes behind you. taking cover is also an option.

no matter what you add, people are going to either complain, or find a way to cheese their way past the challenge, which is why it's not easy for a challenge to be implemented. challenge is also subjective: what you find difficult, I might find easy and vice versa, and it's nigh impossible to get the balance right. 

[peterc3]

6 hours ago, Escapements said:

but the poor guy get nerfed to the moon by DE

The players are entirely to blame for Manics' threat now being near 0.

6 hours ago, Escapements said:

this game engine is out of date lets be clear , so anything interesting like this guy will not work very well , also when he is invisible you cant do a thing to him just saying .

You have no idea what the engine does.

9 hours ago, akrid45 said:

Recommend you watch the video before commenting so you get the full picture of what i'm suggesting  

Recommend you summarize for those who don't have the time nor the ability to watch videos if you want to base a point on it.

[IntheCoconut]

I want more challenging mechanics, AI, etc. I want challenge, I really really do, but I'm wondering how you even approach it in a game like this. I'm not a game developer but I can't even wrap my brain around how you'd balance it when there are nearly limitless variables available to the player. We have 30+ frames, I don't even know how many weapons, mods, etc.  You'd have to find a way to prevent certain team compositions, frames, and weapons, from making content a cakewalk while simultaneously preventing it from being impossible to complete on other frames.

Edited October 6, 2018 by IntheCoconut

[DerGreif2]

I would love to see enemys that are rare and appear after a longer time.

8 hours ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

- Cloaking enemies are not a challenge, invisibility is countered by anyhting with an AoE effect, and lord knows we have those in spades.

- we already have snipers (Ballistas), they can one-shot people at higher levels. fighting the same enemies that just do more damage is not the same as a challenge. 

How about a combination? No laser but a loud sound when it fires. Scary but challeging. Would stay away and you have to use cover or sind small coridores where they cant hit you untill they follow. OP? Maybe but the enemys at the moment are a joke. Higher level is not a argument.

 

8 hours ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

grenade launching enemies were tried before (Nightwatch Reavers are armed with Tonkors). they were just one-hit BS enemies without the need to hit you directly, and people complained.

Add them back. So many squishy Frames should be punished for standing out in the open. Hard? Yes but hell we need them back!

 

8 hours ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

we already have shield enemies, they are an annoyance at best. anyone using a weapon that fires anything other than regular bullets (energy waves, explosives, beams etc.) can rinse them as easily as any other trash mob.

How about enemys where you have to hit a special part? Like Kel (Boss). It will take a while but it makes the fights interesting.

 

8 hours ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

people complain already about tanky enemies being bullet sponges, we already have enemies that deploy drones (Corpus Techs, Tusk Grineer units), it's just another thing to shoot down.

Enemys that are imune to all bullets, abiletys and beams would be nice.

 

I speak about SPECIAL ENEMYS something like a regular mini boss that appears from time to time and make your live a living hell. And I mean HELL! No good melee weapon or to squishy? Your live ends there... or avoid him and jump from room to room. Not more camping in one room.

 

 

That are ideas I would love to see! Make them appear in level 30+ and in endless missions at wave/ minute 10. Complain all you want but you have to adapt. And just to say "it was in the game and it was bad" or "people would compalin" is not helping at all to make warframe a better game.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

13 hours ago, akrid45 said:

Now just watched this Just cause 4 video on their enemy types!!

Recommend you watch the video before commenting so you get the full picture of what i'm suggesting  

 

And it got me thinking that warframe could borrow some ideas from this to make high level content more difficult and not just increase the enemy level to 100. 

For example the super elite guy that was immune to bullet dmg. warframe could add enemies like that but is vulnerable to melee weapons, powers and explosive weapons but not have a super high dmg weapon like heavy gunners and bombards do. or the for example the titan with the rail gun but in warframe it would be a heavy slow unit with opticore that can even hit players bullet jumping really fast. there are a lot of good enemy types in the video that could work in warframe and make higher level content more challenging without having to increase level to 100+

Don’t worry if the New War doesn’t give 85% of the paying fan base enemies that cause complaints about being “too hard”,then I’m sure when Tau comes it will give the 2 percenters all they can handle and alienate the rest, lol.

[(XBOX)DShinShoryuken]

If DE gives the players what they want....they will complain. If DE gives the players what DE wants them to experience, the player base will complain. 

Content is too easy...complain. Too easy....complain.

This can be seen when DE was going to give certain enemies armor spots that you had to take off them before doing any damage to them. This would have been a challenge, yes....but the players said NOOOOOO cuz having to figure out how to take an enemy out in a mass of others is too much work and not enough good clearing play.

Yet, we have Nox who is basically this guy. We have scan targets that we have to scan those small areas and once in a while you get that player that just kills em. That shows how hard it is for people to focus on those areas and pop em....and those are single targets that run FROM the masses more than stay in them. 

If we get a challenge such as the NightWatch again, I do hope they give us something that makes the players realize it is a game. Maybe have the Acolytes hunt US and when they catch us in a squad, they teleport all the members away to face them solo. If we lose the fight, we get put back in the mission and we revive with the rest of our squad that either got their own butts kicked or kicked butt. 

TL; DR- Give us challenges and the players will either complain about or cheese it, as many have said. Give us those challenges anyways....and let them complain...as long as we get to try them out. 

[(XBOX)Skyvernn]

We used to have a challenge known as Trials but then we learnt how to cheese it and DE removed them to 'fix them' just like Solar Rails. 

Most of the challenge that we've been given has been overcome by us receiving power creep. 

If you want a challenge then we need our weapons either nerfed or the enemies require better scaling. 

[Oreades]

17 hours ago, Escapements said:

damn op i just get sold on this game , i heard about it in E3 but after watching the video , damn 

also on topic , the engine for warframe is so outdated , and will not allow for for such addition , i mean just look at this and laughs

 

I've seen this pop up in a couple threads now...... but it really isn't relevant to the AI or Engine functionality. 

Seriously take a step back and consider what we're seeing. The AI in question appears to be in the alert state and the Loki (the only player in the squad) is currently invisible. 

What exactly are you expecting the AI to be doing? It's supposed to have a target but none are available. Arguably it shouldn't be spinning in circles but when that Loki decloaks assuming they didn't finish getting the clip for funzies and kill it.... the AI should resume it's normal function. Still something that is worthy of taking a peek under the hood to see if there is an obvious issue/branch that would make this a common behavior.

Now if there was a frame just standing there normally and the AI was spinning in circles, that would be a  seriously different story but that isn't what we're seeing. 

Edited October 7, 2018 by Oreades