Revenant's Thralls Still Need Ally Damage Immunity

[Bombarder0]

Again

if they make revenant be able to control 7 peeps there will be 2 problems

1 - He most likely troll people to not be able to kill the target

2 - that should be Nyx job,mind controlling lots of peeps,while revenant is more of a CC Distraction (and feed from their health and shields)

[Pizzarugi]

29 minutes ago, Bombarder0 said:

Again

if they make revenant be able to control 7 peeps there will be 2 problems

1 - He most likely troll people to not be able to kill the target

2 - that should be Nyx job,mind controlling lots of peeps,while revenant is more of a CC Distraction (and feed from their health and shields)

1. Or, as someone else here suggested, thralls can be made to be excluded from things like defense waves.

2. That could have been an augment for Nyx, but that's not the way it went and now Revenant has it. Still not a reason why teammates should be able to kill them and make its synergy with the rest of his kit worthless. 😛

[Wesir54]

Agreed, it's not as noticeable when dealing with corpus/grineer but the moment it's infested a single swing of someone's mele weapon wipes them all out, I'd also be cool with it if it acted similar to saryn's spores where killing the enemy it's on spreads it.

[Xana_Skullsunder]

On 2018-10-13 at 2:49 PM, Vitamin.Ex said:

After years of dealing with allies as an Inaros, if Inaros doesn't get it then Revenant shouldn't have it.

So, because it sucks for Inaros it should suck for Revenant too? Get out of here.

[GinKenshin]

Maybe ally dmg reduction? So they don’t die as easily? 

[(PSN)MrNishi]

On 2018-10-13 at 11:24 AM, Pizzarugi said:

I've already made this thread before which later got added to the megathread, but that's since been buried and now it's no longer stickied.

Revenant's Thralls are next to worthless outside of solo play, because teammates can kill them. What good is the enthrallment propagating if the first victim doesn't get to live long enough to attack another enemy? What good is the overshields buff if a teammate murders them before your Danse Macabre can?

I feel the flame left from killed thralls should work as a way to spread "Thrall affliction" to others.

Currently I have been having to keep Thralls alive with Vazarin Protective Dash, but players should not be forced to use a single Focus.

 

I think the "Thrall death fire" having a proc of affliction to cause other enemies to become Thralls, acting as traps/landmines or ways to choke points. A sort of AoE CC for Revenant.

[BL4CKN0ISE]

On 2018-10-13 at 11:24 AM, Pizzarugi said:

I've already made this thread before which later got added to the megathread, but that's since been buried and now it's no longer stickied.

Revenant's Thralls are next to worthless outside of solo play, because teammates can kill them. What good is the enthrallment propagating if the first victim doesn't get to live long enough to attack another enemy? What good is the overshields buff if a teammate murders them before your Danse Macabre can?

The real question is why would you use that ability with Teammates? It's unnecessary, but it's great that teammates can kill them or you could just troll. Thralls are only really helpful for solo play or for taking out a heavy. Either way, the point is to kill enemies, so there's nothing wrong with teammates killing enemies.

[Pizzarugi]

1 hour ago, BL4CKN0ISE said:

The real question is why would you use that ability with Teammates? It's unnecessary, but it's great that teammates can kill them or you could just troll. Thralls are only really helpful for solo play or for taking out a heavy. Either way, the point is to kill enemies, so there's nothing wrong with teammates killing enemies.

There's something wrong if those enemies are enthralled and teammates kill them. Again, several of Revenant's abilities get bonuses when interacting with thralls. What's the point of those bonuses existing if the thralls can be deleted by allies? And again, what's the point of them being able to convert other enemies, if they're supposed to die as soon as you get them?

Additionally, I'm pretty sure DE doesn't make frames with the intent on making sure they're only useful when playing solo but not multiplayer, that's a very bad design choice.

And Revenant isn't going to be able to troll if DE doesn't buff his thralls wrong. Give them ally damage immunity, but any damage they do receive is instantly applied once the effect wears off. Make them not count as enemies in defense waves.

Edited October 27, 2018 by Pizzarugi

[Conflux59]

3 hours ago, BL4CKN0ISE said:

1. The real question is why would you use that ability with Teammates?

2. the point is to kill enemies, so there's nothing wrong with teammates killing enemies.

1. His entire kit has (forced) synergy with thralls. If you do think along those lines though, it's not any stretch to say "why would you use Revenant with teammates"

2. There is nothing wrong with teammates killing enemies.  Thralls are enthralled.. therefor emoving the *enemy* factor becoming (crappy) allies, but they serve a purpose for being there.  They may look like an enemy, but in fact they are nolonger any threat while enthralled, so why exactly do teammates need to kill them?

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

Nah just make two thralls only killable by u... The other 5 can be massacred by whatever means necessary.

[Varzy]

I actually think the real problem here isn't that thralls get killed to fast.

I think the problem is the difficulty it is maintaining your thralls. You can only thrall one enemy at a time, and then to spread, those enemies need to wait a few seconds for their ai to target another enemy, and then attack.

I do agree that a could solution would be temporary immunity to damage on a thralled target -- it'd give them a chance to turn around and spread the sickness before getting mowed down by an ally.

[Madway7]

On 2018-10-26 at 3:26 PM, Pizzarugi said:

1. Or, as someone else here suggested, thralls can be made to be excluded from things like defense waves.

😛

Aren't they already excluded from that? They're even excluded from being killed in the simulacrum.

They fixed it making defense incompletable twice now. (First time was just if a thrall survived a wave killing them later would perma halt the defense, second time was a bug with thralls that got radiated doing the same thing)

 

Anyways the problem I see outside of the overeliance on thralls for his... synergies, is that Enthrall itself isn't fast enough to keep up with teammates. 

For an ability that he relies on to get the most out of his 4 (outside of the anti synergy with pillars), making it have an overly long cast time (for what it is) and be single target is just bad considering how much you have to spam it.

After much thought a simple way to appease people would be to just buff the ability in several ways at once.

 

-Buff the cast time. (By a lot)

-Give it an aoe like 5m ish (not able to be cast once the cap is reached)

-Alternatively give it a spread mechanic with a larger aoe. (Such as using the pillar projectiles just an on death aoe)

-Give thralls a small window of invul. Not the duration of Enthrall, just a small one thats enough for Revenant to be able to use his abilities on them instead of someone else killing them. (Dur of 2 - 3s where only Revenant, possibly other Revenants can damage/kill them)

-Also I disagree with them on using Nekros' cap. The cap was added as they served 2 purposes, shadows being a distraction AND being used to keep Nekros alive (which is not the case with Revevant). For Revenant thralls can be used as a distraction and to get the most out of the rest his kit (mostly Revolving around "use x to kill thrall").

Nekros' shadows are meant to be maintained, kept alive. While thrall is suppose to be a quick minion maker with the intent of killing them soon after.

Nekros kills and spawns in the enemies with 1 button press (and a long cast time), while Revenant has to spam his 1 constantly.

They are too different to be comparable like that. So I say the cap on the amount of thralls Revenant can have should be higher, like 8-10

Now if DE says that it was for balance purposes to prevent something like a 4 Revenant Defense squad thralling everything and breaking spawns then fine, but I don't agree with them just saying "we picked 7 as the cap cause that's the amount of shadows Nekros can have"

(Also Nekros can have more shadows if he kills and spawns certain enemies, last I checked this was not the case with Revenant)

 

Imo Enthrall is his worst ability, just thinking of Reave as a movement ability it was at least a semi useful tool and after all the changes (though it still needs a faster cast time) its a lot better.

While Enthrall has remained the same weak "turn off enemy AI"  ability it has been from day one with only 1 change occuring to it and nothing else. 

And it will probably remain so until Revenant is up for a rework or up for tweaks.

It makes me sad that Rebecca only met some people halfway in feedback, but I guess she doesn't have much experience in the field so its understandable. (Not sure how many were in charge of everything Revenant though)

 

Edited October 28, 2018 by Madway7

[Beas7ie]

On 2018-10-13 at 2:27 PM, MechaKnight said:

I'm somewhat guilty of this. During gameplay I tend to shoot whatever's moving that's not a warframe. It takes me a bit too long to notice the additional objects attached to the enemy, so about half the time I headshot it before it has a chance to work for our team.

I do this too.

One of the main problems is that the game is pretty fast paced and it doesn't help depending on how your geared and what level the enemies are just looking or breathing in their general direction can be enough to kill them all.  And if it's high level play, then people aren't going to take the time while bullet jumping to look at the signs that a bad guy is enthralled or under some other control or effect from an ally and probably shouldn't be killed right now.

[Kuestenjung]

Am 15.10.2018 um 07:20 schrieb Bombarder0:

I Do not agree with this

Revenant 1 ability is more focused on making them your "drinks", you suck health from them, you take their fire away,

Plus, if he gets thralls to have immunity, revenant players will troll by thralling enemies that are needed to be killed.

But something I could agree and want is to have revenant thrall limit to 12 instead of 7

And what´s the point to have 12 instead of 7, if they are dead the moment you entrahl them?

[Solarsyphon]

I'd prefer it to work more like spore with a chaos effect. 

[(PSN)chris1pat8twins]

Maybe increase your range so when they die they create these gasly storms that inflicts puncture damage to nearby enemies? Thralls would become a problem when a trolling revenant decides to enthrall multiple enemies and spam the ability over and over. And have high duration.

Nyx only controls 1 enemy and the damage dealt during that time hits them all at once. Except for Noxes. DE really needs to make damage bypass noxes armored suit while controlled by nyx. 

And Inaroses minions are completely minions created from dead enemies mummified. Much like nekroses shadow minions. 

Thralls are still alive and multiple can be enthralled. But once dead they turn into pillars of puncturing storms.

[Pizzarugi]

On 2018-10-29 at 1:11 AM, (PS4)chris1pat8twins said:

Maybe increase your range so when they die they create these gasly storms that inflicts puncture damage to nearby enemies? Thralls would become a problem when a trolling revenant decides to enthrall multiple enemies and spam the ability over and over. And have high duration.

Nyx only controls 1 enemy and the damage dealt during that time hits them all at once. Except for Noxes. DE really needs to make damage bypass noxes armored suit while controlled by nyx. 

And Inaroses minions are completely minions created from dead enemies mummified. Much like nekroses shadow minions. 

Thralls are still alive and multiple can be enthralled. But once dead they turn into pillars of puncturing storms.

I'll repeat what I said in response to other similar comments: If the only thing Revenant's enthrall is good for is to make damaging energy pillars, then it has failed in its design. The skill was designed to spread to other enemies, give more health and shields when you use Reave on them, and provide overshields as drops when you kill them using Danse Macabre. Why even have this synergy if, according to your logic, they should only be used to create energy pillars?

Yes, and that Mind Control mechanic should apply to Revenant's thralls so they don't get murdered by teammates as soon as they're converted.

[KrainKron]

They need immunity to allies fire. Not range, duration, or anything else. Yesterday I've played bounties and there were 2 random teams. 1. Team was killing every my thrall I've created. It was so annoying and unplayable, since I have no reactor and forma yet on revenant. 2. Oh, gorgeous people. We were making mission objectives, while my thralls were fight against enemies. Problem is in players, that's why thralls are need immunity.

[(PSN)chris1pat8twins]

3 hours ago, Pizzarugi said:

I'll repeat what I said in response to other similar comments: If the only thing Revenant's enthrall is good for is to make damaging energy pillars, then it has failed in its design. The skill was designed to spread to other enemies, give more health and shields when you use Reave on them, and provide overshields as drops when you kill them using Danse Macabre. Why even have this synergy if, according to your logic, they should only be used to create energy pillars?

Yes, and that Mind Control mechanic should apply to Revenant's thralls so they don't get murdered by teammates as soon as they're converted.

Revenant is definitely a warframe I’m not too fimiliar with. I’ve used him with a roaring rhino to be the ultimate enemy against corrupted. It was awesome when I saved a dude from near death from the stalker by enthralling him. And I prevented a trolling player who got radiated by enthralling them too. 😂 

But I do get your point. The only theory I have about why DE may not apply the non-friendly-fire mechanic to thralls is the possibility of trolling. Having an army of minions and the synergy with other abilities is something I’ve tried doing but they all die quickly. It’s like the players only target them or cases with equinox and saryn killing everything. 

So I just focus on turning them into deadly pillars.