Robust In-Game Creation System | Make The Content That You Want| Potential Reaches End-Game Level Content|Potential Solution To Content Drought|

[Zi-Sui]

46 minutes ago, FlusteredFerret said:

1. Mods would still have to be approved by DE (since its their intellectual property being used) - detracts from their own development work.

2. Mods can still take a long time to create, test, debug etc. Adding in the approval process time (which would be done on DE's schedule) means mods would still take a long time to get on the server. Still complaints about "content drought".

3. Are there people out there willing (and with the skills) to produce this content for free? Its very easy to say "let the community create stuff", but how many people are there among the forum users who could actually do this? Genuinely curious about this.

4. If modders want to be paid for their efforts (not unreasonable) they'd need to negotiate with DE...unless some pro-forma software development legal documents already exist. If someone creates a new game mod, using someone else's existing code, how does the payment system work?

5. Need to remember the majority of mods are created for fully-developed, single-person games...some of which are no longer actively supported by the studio. This is a "live" game, still under development. Very different situation.

If there is a no-loot mode that doesn't need to be moderated by DE as long as you're unable to create any textures etc by yourself so you can't add nudity or other inappropriate content. And if everything created is taken from Warframe's already existing models and things, it's easier to create a system that checks the map variables before the game, and either approves or disapproves the map, based on spawn number-interval ratio, map size and and total number of containers. Once safe the map could get its own ID which would lock the map from being edited again but make the loading time faster. The ID is subject to hacking and I don't know how easy it is to hack that, but other than that is there a problem with this?

Warcraft 3 had literally tons of good user-created maps, because it had quite easy-to-use editor. We already have room decorations editor, DE could use that as a base for level editor. People use it all the time so there shouldn't be a problem with it other than the amount of time spent. For that DE could give all the readymade maps for editing to save the people's time. Spawn points are easy to add, so is altering enemy health and armor.values and starting level. A lot of things would be user-friendly if implemented right so I don't see why people wouldn't use the editor. Just give templates to make it user-friendly.

As for legal, I don't know much about that other than Sony requiring polished content only for PS4. So I guess make it PC only.

[nokinoks]

2 hours ago, FlusteredFerret said:

Exactly this.

DE would still have to be involved every step of the way...so all this would do is slow down their own development work. This is probably the single biggest reason that what OP proposes will never happen.

DE would never allow 3rd party content to be integrated into the main game...especially as the majority of it won't fit into what they have planned (I'm assuming).

Even assuming DE allowed 3rd party developers access to their source code (which would require NDAs and other legal stuff) I could only see them agreeing to mods being hosted on a separate server...so anything players did there would have no effect on their main game accounts.

 

I mean if someone developed a deathmatch / CTF mod, I'm sure the players who mourn the demise of Conclave would be happy...but then thats just part of the player base.

I really don't know why the OP is persisting with this idea, as the reasons its VERY unlikely to ever happen, were pointed out in his previous thread:

 

1. Mods would still have to be approved by DE (since its their intellectual property being used) - detracts from their own development work.

2. Mods can still take a long time to create, test, debug etc. Adding in the approval process time (which would be done on DE's schedule) means mods would still take a long time to get on the server. Still complaints about "content drought".

3. Are there people out there willing (and with the skills) to produce this content for free? Its very easy to say "let the community create stuff", but how many people are there among the forum users who could actually do this? Genuinely curious about this.

4. If modders want to be paid for their efforts (not unreasonable) they'd need to negotiate with DE...unless some pro-forma software development legal documents already exist. If someone creates a new game mod, using someone else's existing code, how does the payment system work?

5. Need to remember the majority of mods are created for fully-developed, single-person games...some of which are no longer actively supported by the studio. This is a "live" game, still under development. Very different situation.

This is a sandbox part of the game. I don't know what you are saying, DE would have to be hands on? WHY? Why would they give their source code when it's an in-game sandbox creation system. EVERYTHING is owned by DE as stated. There will be NO loot unless DE wants there to be loot. Why would they need to be there every step of the way? This is simply a robust version of the dojo obstacle course, you don't see DE doing any hand holding there. 

All of what you have said were the problems of the previous post as stated in the PREVIOUSLY section. None of what you have said is a problem in this version. 

[nokinoks]

2 hours ago, Ada_Wong_SG said:

I would definitely try to create a tutorial mission that guides the players more or less to the slightly advanced parkour and tactics.

Or a puzzle house to solve puzzles and find switches by turning off the radar icon and 
you need to find the switches to open doors.

Maybe a newer vault challenge by putting up some kind of secret tunnel and booby traps.

 

That sounds great. I am actually pretty selfish because I want this to make and play game modes that I think are fun but you're actually thinking about new players. That's pretty cool.

[nokinoks]

2 hours ago, zombiedeadhead said:

So you made a thread, it recieved a handful of answers, now you make another thread referring to that, but with an even bigger dumber title. And ironically, neither thread has an ounce of content.

not really

[nokinoks]

1 hour ago, BoarWarrior said:

If there is a no-loot mode that doesn't need to be moderated by DE as long as you're unable to create any textures etc by yourself so you can't add nudity or other inappropriate content.

Exactly, people who are complaining doesn't seem to be reading. I really don't mind criticism and feedback, that's why I changed this idea from the previous version of it which was a separate creation engine OUTSIDE of the game which had a lot of issues and so through the insight of a lot of really helpful people, this was the result and probably a good solution to a lot of challenges WF faces as a game that caters to hundreds of thousands.

Regarding what you said, I think the simplest way to make it easy for everyone is to have maps already for use and just allow the players to move things around so that it will be values that will be loaded. Basically the map base is NOT unique (it is a base, a template) and so there will be no problem about it adding hard drive space consumption and what will be loaded are Values. So for example, item A has a 001 ID and is placed in cell 001. So that is what will be loaded.

The success of this will be based heavily on how DE's engine is setup. I'm still hopeful though. 

[Ohmlink]

I know Neverwinter has something like this. I think it's a neat addition if DE wants to do that. Rewards were typically generic so people would not get end game gear.

 

[nokinoks]

1 minute ago, Ohmlink said:

I know Neverwinter has something like this. I think it's a neat addition if DE wants to do that. Rewards were typically generic so people would not get end game gear.

 

for my part, I'm quite happy if I just get relics or void traces for the Content that DE allows drops for. I just want to make and play stuff. I want to play the base game, it IS fun. But the scaling is bad that it just feels unfair and some frame mechanics like Invisibility are just too OP and it's hard to find that middle and exciting ground unless you force yourself to go into missions without mods or something like that.

I'm hoping that something like this will fix it. It doesn't have to be big, not in the beginning but there's hundreds of thousands of registered players, I'm sure there's bound to be something great from this.

[Ohmlink]

I would like this addition since someone mentioned a more complete tutorial if only for movement.

DE could probably avoid content drought by doing small events focusing on say Solaris United. Say doing some missions with an operative to build a reputation with them before being allowed to go to Venus.

Potentially even reward players with a generic kit gun at the end of the quest. It could even work like the Mote amp where you can't guild it.

[FlusteredFerret]

37 minutes ago, nokinoks said:

This is a sandbox part of the game. I don't know what you are saying, DE would have to be hands on? WHY? Why would they give their source code when it's an in-game sandbox creation system. EVERYTHING is owned by DE as stated. There will be NO loot unless DE wants there to be loot. Why would they need to be there every step of the way? This is simply a robust version of the dojo obstacle course, you don't see DE doing any hand holding there. 

All of what you have said were the problems of the previous post as stated in the PREVIOUSLY section. None of what you have said is a problem in this version. 

Eh, okay I missed the sandbox bit (I tend to skim read similar threads).

 

But still - DE would have to create that sandbox...which would still stand separately from the main game. I'm pretty sure they've got their plates full as it is.

Also, at the end of the day, what you're going to have is players going in and creating bits and pieces of stuff. Which may be fun for a little while, but ultimately its only going to satisfy some players for a limited amount of time.

What the majority of players want is content that will allow them to continue to build their frame collection, level up stuff, acquire more resources etc. (and in some cases continue the game's story arc) None of which a sandbox environment would allow them to do.

Plus I can already see the forums filling with requests for DE to expand the capabilities of the sandbox, because they feel its too limited.

I could actually see DE at least considering this. But I think they're already too busy to create a sandbox and even if they did, I honestly think the novelty would wear off for most players, after a short period of time.

After all, its one thing to invest time playing a game...but when you have to create your own content...I can see that becoming tedious for many players. After all - look at the complaints about how grindy it can be.

[Ada_Wong_SG]

Just thought about the content creation possibilities, here are some ideas

1) Sniper rifle range simulacrum for testing out/ training sniper rifle use, with moving orbs/s targets 
for plinking and practicing with rifle. That puts target out until 300 - 400 meter range to practice long range shot.

2) Movement and parkour guided tutorial, to maximize aim glide distance and move around quickily
(already mentioned) basically an updated dojo obstacle course that is made to resemble mission nodes.

- Double bullet jump with operator mode.
- Zipline to zipline transit
- Aim glide roll etc


3) Simulacrum Shoot house, with programmable enemy spawn/ target spawn
Cover utilization, basic hiding from enemies and room clearing 
With environment hazard like dummy explosive drums to practice weapons with punch-through 
and bullet jumping through confined spaces.

4) Gunship training (Railjack)
shooting from moving vehicle and gun accuracy practice (Sniper)
mounted weapon practice

 

5) Individual warframe basics and advance tutorial.

[nokinoks]

9 hours ago, FlusteredFerret said:

What the majority of players want is content that will allow them to continue to build their frame collection, level up stuff, acquire more resources etc. (and in some cases continue the game's story arc) None of which a sandbox environment would allow them to do.

It's not that I disagree with this, but I can't agree with this either. We only know for sure is that the player base is split, but not what the player base wants. If we had data then I'd concede. 

Regarding the investment I really think it's worth it on DE's part, it doesn't have to be that hard if for example they just give us access to tile sets that are static (to clarify for those who don't know, tile sets have an algorithm that makes them "familiar but random".) If they provide a static tile set, pass over it once to make sure that access to extraction is available then they can just empty it and allow us to go ham placing barricade and S#&$. 

The thing is, there will always be people trying to make something and as long as there are enough people making something and playing that Content, it's a worthwhile investment for DE WITH THE CAVEAT that it has an "adjustable" investment measure for DE, for example if 20,000 people are participating then they devote this much people. If it's less then they devote less. It makes sense if they do it that way and if a lot of people are clamoring for support then it means a lot of people are interested. If they support Creators then the Creators bother about the users more than DE because DE having enough credibility can state RIGHT AT THE BEGINNING that this will not receive too much support due to x and y and DE being DE and US being US, we can say that we understand because DE deserves it.

Think about it, Youtube, Facebook, Instagram, I know they are all social media platform but they are so successful because the Users are the ones making content. Every minute someone is making content. If DE can leverage the same principle then it COULD be good. I think we agree that this is something worth talking about (by DE on a meeting or something) at the least.

[Bombarder0]

DE Wont ever look at this lol.

[nokinoks]

9 hours ago, Ada_Wong_SG said:

1) Sniper rifle range simulacrum for testing out/ training sniper rifle use, with moving orbs/s targets 
for plinking and practicing with rifle. That puts target out until 300 - 400 meter range to practice long range shot.

You know, with this we can actually have a game mode where snipers are actually really really great. Something like stealth sniping OR PoE sandbox where there is a fort in the middle and you will be defending from a top. Maaaaan I'm pumped!

Imagine this, 

Step one: PoE sandbox, remove everything

Step two: in the middle of PoE, add a very basic structure, a fort with four walls with covers and stuff. 

Step three: add a cave system below that is already pre-made from the PoE assets so you can have dimension

Step four: put a defense objective right smack in the middle

Step five: set enemy spawn points and levels

 

Some enemies will come from below

Most will come from outside and you can finally use that sniper before going to something mid ranged with your secondary or melee those that come from the cave. I don't know, this could be extremely fun especially if there is more than four people and you can just add complexity as you go.

[nokinoks]

3 minutes ago, Bombarder0 said:

DE Wont ever look at this lol.

I actually kinda feel sad, does DE even read forum posts if it's got like less than 500 views and comments?

[Me.KayOh]

22 hours ago, peterc3 said:

Given the Kingpin system doesn't currently exist, there's nothing for it to turn into.

Um, in case you weren't around when they told us what it was going to be, the devs told us what it was going to be. They then went on to state that they were displeased with the outcome and would have to return to it at a later date. Should re-think what you write if you intend to write know-it-all responses like that.

[ArchXDiablo]

42 minutes ago, nokinoks said:

I actually kinda feel sad, does DE even read forum posts if it's got like less than 500 views and comments?

They probably do, yet for something of this magnitude to even be considered it'd have to have the community screaming for it. This is no easy feat to code and balance. On top of that they have so many projects in their pipeline that they easily have their hands full, and to be honest other than this thread I've never ever seen anyone even mention something like this. So chances of this even getting recognized  are, IMO, very slim to non existant.

[nokinoks]

3 minutes ago, ArchXDiablo said:

They probably do, yet for something of this magnitude to even be considered it'd have to have the community screaming for it. This is no easy feat to code and balance. On top of that they have so many projects in their pipeline that they easily have their hands full, and to be honest other than this thread I've never ever seen anyone even mention something like this. So chances of this even getting recognized  are, IMO, very slim to non existant.

Well you are reasonable at the least, I still hope they give it a mention or a discussion. I lot of games that did this was made better for it, granted they were single player games (though not all iirc). Nothing to do but hope and refine the idea if I can.

[Cubewano]

DE had plans for user generated missions some x years ago, but like many things, it was put on an indefinite hold. It'd definitely be a worthwhile tool to finish up for the game some day if not just to give players more creative outlets to pour their energy into during empty periods. As has been shown with tennogen and ikeaframe it's pretty clear players can be quite excellent at creating their own entertainment if given enough flexibility. 

Edited October 23, 2018 by Cubewano

[nokinoks]

46 minutes ago, Cubewano said:

DE had plans for user generated missions some x years ago, but like many things, it was put on an indefinite hold. It'd definitely be a worthwhile tool to finish up for the game some day if not just to give players more creative outlets to pour their energy into during empty periods. As has been shown with tennogen and ikeaframe it's pretty clear players can be quite excellent at creating their own entertainment if given enough flexibility. 

I feel like DE is too paranoid regarding content. People quit playing all the time and RETURN all the time. I could be wrong, but isn't that the norm? 

[Cubewano]

10 minutes ago, nokinoks said:

I feel like DE is too paranoid regarding content. People quit playing all the time and RETURN all the time. I could be wrong, but isn't that the norm? 

I don't know what the norm is, if anyone did it'd be DE since they have access to that kind of information and would most definitely monitor it.

[nokinoks]

Just now, Cubewano said:

I don't know what the norm is, if anyone did it'd be DE since they have access to that kind of information and would most definitely monitor it.

very fair point, is WF going broke or something? hmmm. maybe people aren't spending much on it? hmmm, well it's all speculation at this point so I guess there's no reason to pursue this line of thought.

[jfhsanseiIII]

On 2018-10-22 at 10:43 AM, Me.Church said:

Makes me think that this is what the previous "kingpin" system should be turned into. It's hella ambitious though.

This is exactly what I was under the impression it would be as well.  

[Zi-Sui]

13 hours ago, FlusteredFerret said:

What the majority of players want is content that will allow them to continue to build their frame collection, level up stuff, acquire more resources etc. (and in some cases continue the game's story arc) None of which a sandbox environment would allow them to do.

How do you know what the majority of players want? By reading forums? By listening to clanmates and friends? Majority of who I heard of want harder content. I'm sure they don't mind the new gear either but that's not why they play or stopped playing the game, that's just a side thing for them mostly. For me it's equal since I'm a collector. But I'd rather have fun new content than new gear if you had to choose.

And while creating this editor would likely mean another content drought since it's a big thing, it could also mean no future content drought thanks to users being able to create new game modes.

[dEjAvU5566]

I will build a brain dead focus farm 1m exp in a minute map when mod allowed immediately.

And I guarantee you this will be the top 5 map of the mod roaster even it has zerooooooo content in it.

 

[nokinoks]

1 hour ago, BoarWarrior said:

For me it's equal since I'm a collector. But I'd rather have fun new content than new gear if you had to choose.

I am on the same boat, I already have a ton of S#&$. I have a gun for this and that and there's no point in "having" more, not if Fun is an expense.

 

1 hour ago, BoarWarrior said:

And while creating this editor would likely mean another content drought since it's a big thing, it could also mean no future content drought thanks to users being able to create new game modes.

I also agree with this, it makes sense. If people had the tools and support (not support for them directly but support to make the tools better) then I don't see how this does not help a WHOLE LOT with any content drought. WF has a huge community. This "creation kit" isn't just for bored veterans, this is for people who want to practice making their own game, who want to make content to share in Youtube or Twitch. Who want to prove their points by making demos. As long as there is division in this community (which is normal in EVERY community) people will always be making content and that content will always be available to everyone, whether they are looking for refreshing things, whether they are trying out HOW to build a frame (because this is also simulacrum on steroids) with mods that they don't have yet.