Most Powerful warframes lorewise

[(XBOX)Lwyu]

On 2018-12-28 at 1:35 PM, kgabor said:

Saitama's backstory is tragic enough?

Well if you take that anime to a serious point then you might have to rewatch it until you realize that amazing anime is literally a joke as said by the creator, saitama is made to BE broken with no real explanation besides his daily excersize quotas lmfao. So we dont talk about him. Also when I say tragic backstory as a main character I'm talking about the 70% of anime that involves that and making a meme out of it, and or the 70% of anime you havent watched because I cant tell if you watch main streams or both so I wont go there.

[(XBOX)Lwyu]

On 2018-12-28 at 1:29 PM, (PS4)ZERO_ghost90 said:

Yeah but nullifiers have plot armor anyway

Nullies are really easy to deal with as valkyr though, people keep saying that the nullifieds are like her main weakness when other warframes also can get cucked by nullifiers, their job is to cuck but at the end of the day its extremely easy to deal with them if you arent one of those "I listen to dubstep while I pretend my current gameplay is a youtube video and im moving to the beat hyuck" by simply attacked the egde of the bubbles or not even engaging them xD.

P.S was too lazy to make the double quotes in one post Its 2 am smh cant be bothered.

Edited December 30, 2018 by (XB1)Lwyu

[Squeaphily]

wIsP sUn PoRtAl

[(PSN)Unstar]

Limbo has total time manipulating powers so he's the most powerful.

Edited March 16, 2021 by (PSN)Unstar
didn't actually edit anything, just chasitizing myself for not realizing this thread was necro'd

[Seph-Aldaire]

Everyone keeps saying Limbo but didn't he rip himself apart trying to traverse the rift? He doesn't even nearly have full control over his power as it's a scientific and heavily formulated endeavor.

[AuroraSonicBoom]

Banshee. She's the only frame that can shut down other frame abilities, not to mention reach the damage cap with minimal effort. 

[Skaleek]

I dunno, Protea's ability to control time should definitely be considered. She's definitely the time to Limbo's space.

[Loza03]

1 hour ago, Squeaphily said:

wIsP sUn PoRtAl

Welcome to the forums?

 

1 hour ago, Aldeseo said:

Everyone keeps saying Limbo but didn't he rip himself apart trying to traverse the rift? He doesn't even nearly have full control over his power as it's a scientific and heavily formulated endeavor.

Depending on exactly how things went belly-up it could either be construed as this, or as monumentally more powerful than anyone else. We must assume that whatever accident Limbo triggered caused the frame to become 'lost', in that it was no longer produced or in a very limited capacity. Not impossible, given that we find pieces of him on entirely separate planets, but that alone would probably be something the Orokin wouldn't care about. They might honestly try to weaponise it. 

No, it's possible that whatever accident Limbo did caused a far more existential crisis, and might have even affected or killed the Tenno piloting it. Or, as is my own personal headcanon, launched them into the fabric of reality to serve as the in-universe version of our lord and saviour redtext.

 

Of course I could also be talking out my top hat to hype up my own favourite frame (at least from a thematic perspective).

[Yakhul]

Lore wise? I would go with Excalibur Umbra.

He was the very first if I'm not mistaken. The first one to rebel against his masters, so it had to be put down. Self consciousness can be a lethal weapon for a being that was supposed to bow down the will of its masters.

 

[(XBOX)Apoll0 666]

34 minutes ago, Yakhul said:

Lore wise? I would go with Excalibur Umbra.

He was the very first if I'm not mistaken. The first one to rebel against his masters, so it had to be put down. Self consciousness can be a lethal weapon for a being that was supposed to bow down the will of its masters.

 

Well technically the first frames all had their own personality and consciousness, take the Mirage quest for example, Mirage was #*!%in nuts and dangerous

[(XBOX)Apoll0 666]

5 minutes ago, CurseOfFilth said:

So we just gonna sleep on Grendel who is basically a black hole?

Well I mean no offense but as a warframe he’s pretty damn boring 

[TARINunit9]

Lorewise? There's a few different candidates depending on what criteria you want to judge by:

Baruuk is a strong contender. He doesn't look impressive until you remember that his exalted weapon isn't actually an exalted weapon. Those are just his normal hands. Excalibur and Mesa and Wukong have to pay energy for their exalted weapons, while Baruuk gets all of the power of Serene Storm for free. The restraint meter isn't an energy or resource cost, it's just how much he's willing to fight at full power. Baruuk is also very fast, fast enough to dodge bullets while supposedly remaining visibly motionless. This costs energy, but so does Volt's speed and Gauss's speed

Nova is ridiculously powerful as well, especially in her Leverian profile. Antimatter is perhaps the most potent fuel source in "hard sci-fi", and despite being as soft as melted butter Warframe agrees. And Nova is holding so much antimatter that she can fuel an Orokin ship's reactor with one cast of her Molecular Prime. And Orokin ships are not exactly small. That is a LOT of energy output

[Loza03]

54 minutes ago, Yakhul said:

Lore wise? I would go with Excalibur Umbra.

He was the very first if I'm not mistaken. 

 

This is the second time in a short while that I've come across  this theory and I'm honestly confused as to where it actually came from.

Is there any evidence for this beyond 'Excalibur was the first'? That line doesn't specify any particular Excalibur beyond the fact that it's on Excalibur Prime's codex page and the blueprint in the Vitruvian is of an Excalibur Prime minus the 'key face'. There's also some evidence in the Silver Grove (and to a lesser extent, the Saryn Prime trailer) that there was at least a brief period where Tenno as frame-wielding soldiers and Margulis co-existed - meaning that Ballas would have no motivation to start the betrayal, let alone have had 'lifetimes' by the timeframe that Umbra was transformed. Even beyond that, that line alone would indicate that this has happened some considerable time after Margulis. Either way, by the time Ballas actually enacted his betrayal (albeit this may have come before or after Umbra's creation), the Tenno's position was well-established.

Even the use of the term 'Umbra' to refer to the feral proto-Warframes is fanon as far as I'm aware, as in the quest it's pretty exclusively used to refer only to Umbra himself. Even 'Echoes of Umbra' was described as transferring Umbra's characteristics over to a different frame. In other words, that frame has an echo of Umbra, the individual frame, rather than being a re-awakening of the Warframe to an 'Umbra' state.

[TARINunit9]

11 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

This is the second time in a short while that I've come across  this theory and I'm honestly confused as to where it actually came from.

Is there any evidence for this beyond 'Excalibur was the first'? 

It's called subtext.

If the writers go on an extended origin story of how ducks came into existence, from the point of view of John who walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, they expect you to assume that John is a duck without them having to confirm in writing "John is a duck"

[Loza03]

28 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

It's called subtext.

If the writers go on an extended origin story of how ducks came into existence, from the point of view of John who walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, they expect you to assume that John is a duck without them having to confirm in writing "John is a duck"

I'm as much of a fan of subtext as anyone else (I'm a fan of Shakespeare, it's the entry fee), but it's speculation-fuel at best, and should not be used in place of canon evidence, especially when said evidence that at least somewhat indicates that the opposite.

Making the claim that Umbra was the first from subtext is fanon. Better fanon than some, but fanon nonetheless.

[TARINunit9]

Just now, Loza03 said:

I'm as much of a fan of subtext as anyone else (I'm a fan of Shakespeare, it's the entry fee), but it's speculation-fuel at best, and should not be used in place of canon evidence, especially when said evidence that at least somewhat indicates that the opposite.

Making the claim that Umbra was the first from subtext is fanon. Better fanon than some, but fanon nonetheless.

Simply put, I don't like this mentality, nor agree that such exacting standards is required for anything besides "Versus Battles." Not every video game writer is Scott Cawthon, you don't need to guard your evidence folder so tightly that nothing short of a signed confession from the devs themselves counts

[Loza03]

10 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

Simply put, I don't like this mentality, nor agree that such exacting standards is required for anything besides "Versus Battles." Not every video game writer is Scott Cawthon, you don't need to guard your evidence folder so tightly that nothing short of a signed confession from the devs themselves counts

For reference, I don't hold this mentality of 'text only' beyond discussions of canon or theory speculation. Most fanfics that I've deeply enjoyed have pretty much based on nothing but subtext - one in particular literally spinning out from a single image. Even some of my favourite characters are, in fact, non canon and derived from subtext (W.D. Gaster being one such example)

However, when it comes down to making claims on what's canon or lore discussion, death of the author pretty much needs to be left at the door by sheer necessity. Canon, by the literary definition, is "the works of a particular author or artist that are recognized as genuine." i.e. works from authors other than the original without the explicit blessing of said author or whatever body owns the work, cannot be considered canonical. Theorising, as speculation on what 'could' be canon or what could have happened off-screen, therefore needs to be based on canon information to draw those conclusions. Otherwise, the extrapolation is innately flawed. If you want to write a fanfiction or hold a headcanon despite that, I don't care, so long as you don't make claims that it's in any way canon.

 

No, not every writer is Scott Cawthon, and so not all the pieces are going to fit together (indeed, FNAF itself has a bunch that either don't or didn't fit very well), but we're not the writers - we do not have the authority to add new pieces to the board and declare them official parts of the puzzle.

[TARINunit9]

Just now, Loza03 said:

No, not every writer is Scott Cawthon, and so not all the pieces are going to fit together (indeed, FNAF itself has a bunch that either don't or didn't fit very well), but we're not the writers - we do not have the authority to add new pieces to the board and declare them official parts of the puzzle.

Let me be more clear: Scott Cawthon is actually really BAD at making his pieces fit together, because he constantly changes them. Here let me explain why I just go ahead and say Excalibur Umbra is the first Warframe ever:

OK so in FNaF1, we learn of an incident called the Bite of 1987, in which an animatronic's teeth caused brain trauma to a human. And in FNaF4, we see a child suffer cranial trauma to a child's head. There is no calendar in FNaF4, but I think it's pretty safe to say that this is the Bite of 87. And it's also pretty safe to say that Excalibur Umbra is the first Warframe ever.

Scott Cawthon is the kind of writer to say "nope, that was the bite of 1985, a completely new event that I just made up. Why did you think that was the Bite of 87? Did you see a calendar on the wall? No? Then don't make so many assumptions"

[-ODIN-SwoleChef]

On 2018-11-01 at 8:24 PM, Onyxeagle171 said:

gara killed a sentient the same power of hunhow,

iirc gara used a bomb to take down the sentient, not her own power

[-ODIN-SwoleChef]

On 2018-11-01 at 8:24 PM, Onyxeagle171 said:

gara killed a sentient the same power of hunhow,

iirc gara used a bomb to take down the sentient, not her own power

[ChaoticEdge]

helmith the thing on board ur ship is op.  Think about it he is able repair ur frame, able let you swap your frame's power and what if he was able to use old frame and start mass producing his own frame hoards.  Then again there is common thous frame beating the stick out

[Loza03]

Just now, TARINunit9 said:

Let me be more clear: Scott Cawthon is actually really BAD at making his pieces fit together, because he constantly changes them. Here let me explain why I just go ahead and say Excalibur Umbra is the first Warframe ever:

OK so in FNaF1, we learn of an incident called the Bite of 1987, in which an animatronic's teeth caused brain trauma to a human. And in FNaF4, we see a child suffer cranial trauma to a child's head. There is no calendar in FNaF4, but I think it's pretty safe to say that this is the Bite of 87. And it's also pretty safe to say that Excalibur Umbra is the first Warframe ever.

Scott Cawthon is the kind of writer to say "nope, that was the bite of 1985, a completely new event that I just made up. Why did you think that was the Bite of 87? Did you see a calendar on the wall? No? Then don't make so many assumptions"

What Scott says is canon is canon. That's it. There's no ifs, no ands, no buts. What the author has written, or given their blessing to is canon. Everything else is not (multiple author shenanigans like Star Wars Legends notwithstanding). Irrespective of if you agree with the writing decision or not, by definition, what it is that Scott writes is what happened in the fictional universe of FnaF. He has the authority to make that call, and we do not. The Fnaf 4 incident being the bite of '85 is canon - regardless of if it was originally planned or a retcon.

Again, when theorising, you have to build that theory on what is already canon - that is ultimately the clarifying factor that sets a theory apart from other sorts of fanon (similar to how an AU is distinct from a fan work that fills a gap in the story). If its your headcanon that Umbra was the first Warframe based on an interpretation of subtext, I have no quarrel. I headcanon a lot of things (For example the OG Limbo became Red Text that I already talked about), and as stated, I enjoy a lot of headcanons. But if you're going to make the claim that Umbra was the first Warframe, thereby suggesting that is what the canon material suggests, I expect to see explicit canon material that suggests it is.

Frankly speaking, that material simply does not exist.

[TARINunit9]

2 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

What Scott says is canon is canon. That's it. There's no ifs, no ands, no buts.

OK so we have no choice but to agree to disagree on this, if you have this hardline stance. I just honestly hope, for your sake, this is not sarcasm I promise, that you aren't following any authors who are about to change a detail you like

[Loza03]

Just now, TARINunit9 said:

OK so we have no choice but to agree to disagree on this, if you have this hardline stance. I just honestly hope, for your sake, this is not sarcasm I promise, that you aren't following any authors who are about to change a detail you like

It's not a hardline stance, it's literally just the definition of canon, as derived from 'canonical scripture' (and as opposed to apocryphal scripture):

 

[Middle English, from Late Latin, from Latin, standard]

a: an authoritative list of books accepted as Holy Scripture

b: the authentic works of a writer //the Chaucer canon

c: a sanctioned or accepted group or body of related works //the canon of great literature 

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/canon

(C is the one most relevant here, with the related works in this case being Warframe)

 

If the author/s changes a detail I like, or ceases to sanction it... then that detail is not canon, because it's no longer sanctioned or accepted by the authority that makes that decision, in other words, the author. Whether I like it or not. I can still read it. I can still enjoy it. I can even complain that it was a terrible writing decision to change it. But I can't go up to the author and tell them that they're beholden to my interpretations or preferences when they write something, because their story belongs to them. However, they can't tell me that I can't write my derivative fanfiction that retains that element because it doesn't follow their canon, (provided said fan fiction falls within fair use, that's law not literary analysis), because that story is my work, and therefore I get to sanction or accept things within the confines of that work - but I cannot add those works to canon, because I don't have the authority to sanction that.

 

In short - what is canon is what is written, or what the author has sanctioned. Unless the author sanctions it, your headcanon is not canon, so you can't make the claims. The idea that Umbra is the first Warframe is your headcanon. I can't tell you that you can't hold that. I can tell you that it's not what the game actually says and to stop claiming that it is.

[TARINunit9]

4 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

In short - what is canon is what is written, or what the author has sanctioned. 

The problem I have with your stance is that you're going off on a tangent to a tangent. "Canon" and "actually making sense" are separate things, and you can have one and not the other. I have read stories in which the author later declared something new to be canon in favor of something old, except the new thing contradicts OTHER things that are still supposedly canon, and the story literally does not make sense unless you ignore the list of what's "canon"

This is before we get to the idea of fans literally making up their own canon. Which they can do and have done

But as I said, both of the above are tangential to the actual point: I'm not ignoring a hypothetical statement from DE that says "Excalibur Umbra was not the first Warframe." I'm not inserting a fan theory that was developed outside the game. I'm looking at canon sources that say A=B and B=C, and drawing the conclusion that A=C. But you refuse to accept it as both canon and sensible because the game itself doesn't feature A=C