About the unchanged Kohm disposition: read this and think about it

[Ragnarok]

10 minutes ago, (PS4)cleefsentence said:

What a coincidence, i think that you're explanation is honestly pathetic.

Your* and can't see how since mine was based in an objective view of the situation. Copying my insults just makes you unoriginal.

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I already proved you that DE doesn't care at all about non-usage of weapons or mods, the past nerfs of weapons like symulor and tonkor, the existence of of sh1tty weapons like the stug and the kraken that can't be saved even with a 5 dispo and no one use, the future death of maiming strike by the introduction of the melee 3.0.

This has nothing to do with rivens. The past changes were mechanic in nature. We're discussing disposition adjustments. If you're upset that DE is gimping maiming strike by mechanically changing how melee works, then bring it up in another thread it has nothing to contribute here.

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DE nerf every thing that can break their game and is too powerful. If they are not changed the dispo of the kohm is because some "geniuses" purchased grolled kohm riven for 10k/20k plat, that's the only reason they want to keep the dispo of 5 on the kohm.

They don't nerf everything too powerful, usually it's when they disagree with the mechanic being used or it's become excessively meta defining and again cost clearly doesn't mean much when other equally expensive weapons still received a nerf. 

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Kohm can reach the 100% status chance with 4 60% 60% mods, the rivens are a luxury, not a necessity. This is a FACT, not an opinion. Their reason is money-oriented and to avoid a backlash by those owners, if you can't understand something so simple well... so sad for you.

And even when it could reach 120% before rivens noone used the kohm. Hell, even after rivens it was barely used because few people realized what breakpoints the rivens allowed. Once it became well known is when it spiked in popularity. It's current usage is a result of it's current disposition, if nerfed to where it can't reach these breakpoints then it's usage will drop moreso than any other weapon. If you can't understand this then that's pretty sad, it's also quite sad that you think this is an issue about plat cost.

[----Legacy----]

OP seems to fail to understand that kohm is one of those weapons that nearly nobody used until rivens became a thing, which explains its high disposition and could be extrapolated as a way to explain DE's decision of not changing it now. 

If the disposition changes were made keeping in mind the feelings of the owners or player investment, as OP claims, riven dispositions would only have either remained unchanged or gotten a bump instead of having many of them drop due to the weapon becoming popular for specific tasks (like lanka or rubico with eidolon hunts), getting a strong variant (lato with the re-release of Vandal, tiberon with the release of prime) or gets rebalanced and becomes viable on its own (like happened with sicarus) while keeping high disposition. Afaik, rivens for all of the weapons i gave as examples were expensive and still got their disposition dropped regardless.

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

1 hour ago, Ragnarok said:

Except power isn't what they've decided to base disposition around, they chose usage and popularity. Both which would be disproportionately affected on the kohm compared to other weapons.

I dont get what you're saying. I mean first of all they used the words "usage AND power) [emphasis added] .

I dont have any way of knowing for sure how often what weapons are used but kohm isnt, you know, like rare to see someone being to a mission.

[(PSN)cleefsentence]

1 hour ago, Ragnarok said:

Your* and can't see how since mine was based in an objective view of the situation. Copying my insults just makes you unoriginal.

Oh really?

1 hour ago, Ragnarok said:

If you can't understand this then that's pretty sad, it's also quite sad that you think this is an issue about plat cost.

You're so original.

 

1 hour ago, Ragnarok said:

This has nothing to do with rivens. The past changes were mechanic in nature. We're discussing disposition adjustments. If you're upset that DE is gimping maiming strike by mechanically changing how melee works, then bring it up in another thread it has nothing to contribute here.

They don't nerf everything too powerful, usually it's when they disagree with the mechanic being used or it's become excessively meta defining and again cost clearly doesn't mean much when other equally expensive weapons still received a nerf. 

And even when it could reach 120% before rivens noone used the kohm. Hell, even after rivens it was barely used because few people realized what breakpoints the rivens allowed. Once it became well known is when it spiked in popularity. It's current usage is a result of it's current disposition, if nerfed to where it can't reach these breakpoints then it's usage will drop moreso than any other weapon. If you can't understand this then that's pretty sad, it's also quite sad that you think this is an issue about plat cost.

Any thing that DE see as too powerful will receive a nerf sooner or later. This is a constant, like gravity.

The unchanged dispo of the kohm is something that the usual DE would nerf without think too much, as stated by DE Connor they wanted to change the dispo originally but later they changed their mind because "some players depend on these Rivens to achieve 100% status chance".

Something become meta when is the best option available. Most of the times the meta stuff is broken, this is true for weapons, warframes, mods and rivens. When something that is meta gets DE attention there are very high chance that they will do something about.

As i can already say to you in another topic (really, pretty bored to write the same stuff ya know) if DE really wants to stop you to abuse of a weapon they will do it anyway, they can:

- Lower the base stats so even with a riven the weapon can't be saved (stug case)

- Change a mechanic like the plasmor headshot multiplier

- Change dispo of rivens so op weapons can't break the game too much

- Change op mods (maiming strike soon and maybe hunter munitions someday)

 

This is true even for frames (they can lower their damage stats, like the miasma dmg of saryn with the chimera update).

1 hour ago, Ragnarok said:

And even when it could reach 120% before rivens noone used the kohm. Hell, even after rivens it was barely used because few people realized what breakpoints the rivens allowed. Once it became well known is when it spiked in popularity. It's current usage is a result of it's current disposition, if nerfed to where it can't reach these breakpoints then it's usage will drop moreso than any other weapon.

DE itself know that kohm with dispo 5 is something that deserves a change (as stated by DE Connor), so the problem for them EXIST and is not something that i'm inventing. They changed their minds tho, for reasons that are probably market related. The alternative is only an ignorance from DE about kohm stats and the possibility to reach that 100% status chance with the 4 60% 60& mods. Your "DE changed their mind to avoid the death of kohm usage!" doesn't have sense, because DE in 5 years (FIVE) already proved that something too much good to be true has a very shot life. Can be a mechanic, a disposition of a riven, the stats of a weapon. They don't care what players will think. If too broken = nerf.

I am basing my statements on 5 years of game history and DE behavior in this time frame. What do you base on to give credit to your statement "DE decided to not change kohm dispo to avoid usage death"? Do you have stats usage of the kohm of the past  before the boom of rivens and of a possible future after a change of the dispo? Let's see them.

ps. i don't need to open a topic about maiming strike. I don't care if they will nerf that mod btw because is too broken.

Edited November 12, 2018 by (PS4)cleefsentence

[(PSN)cleefsentence]

42 minutes ago, ----Legacy---- said:

OP seems to fail to understand that kohm is one of those weapons that nearly nobody used until rivens became a thing, which explains its high disposition and could be extrapolated as a way to explain DE's decision of not changing it now. 

If the disposition changes were made keeping in mind the feelings of the owners or player investment, as OP claims, riven dispositions would only have either remained unchanged or gotten a bump instead of having many of them drop due to the weapon becoming popular for specific tasks (like lanka or rubico with eidolon hunts), getting a strong variant (lato with the re-release of Vandal, tiberon with the release of prime) or gets rebalanced and becomes viable on its own (like happened with sicarus) while keeping high disposition. Afaik, rivens for all of the weapons i gave as examples were expensive and still got their disposition dropped regardless.

And you're failing to understand that the kohm usage is not something that DE would care, like they haven't care in these past 5 years with the nerf of weapons and frames and now with the dispo nerf of 90% of the meta weapons in the game.

If they refuse to change something is for a specific reason.

Let's list the possible reasons for the unchanged kohm dispo:

1) An huge ignorance by DE about the game weapons power (DE doesn't know that with 4 60% 60% mods the kohm can reach 100% status, wow, can be this?)

2) Reasons related to the market that these rivens have (prices of groll rivens around 10k/20k plat, lots of money involved)

3) Scare to kill kohm usage (but in 5 years they have nerfed every thing that was too op without care about consequences, never buffed unused weapons like stug and kraken. They wanted to change the dispo originally too so the problem for them exist)

4) Other understandable reasons that i would really like to listen by DE (missing so...)

So many choices...

Edited November 12, 2018 by (PS4)cleefsentence

[Skaleek]

Nothing should get special treatment. Just because a riven disposition threatens to ruin a weapons "way of working" doesnt mean it should be exempt. The recent riven changes messed up more than 1 of my builds. Its the price of progress, nothing should be exempt from this.

[Blackthorn66]

On 2018-11-09 at 11:31 AM, (PS4)cleefsentence said:

A super-op weapon which disposition will never be changed as confirmed by DE directly.

Can you imagine the market of these rivens in some months? The prices they will reach?

 

DE you're creating a monster that someday will eat you.

When did they confirm that it will NEVER be touched?

[(PSN)cleefsentence]

11 minutes ago, Blackthorn66 said:

When did they confirm that it will NEVER be touched?

DE itself acknowledged the need of keeping a dispo 5 to not ruin the weapon for those that DEPENDS on them.

You just have to read, this is an official post by DE Connor in the Riven topic:

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EDIT: Wanted to clear up one comment I'm seeing lots of. Many of you have mentioned the Kohm as well as Detron - These weapons were marked for a reduction, but we opted not to change them, because some players depend on these Rivens to achieve 100% status chance. Because of this, small disposition changes had the chance to make a much larger impact on these weapons, so we have left them as is. 

 

If they change the dispo after saying that good luck with the backlash. Do you know about excalibur prime? There is no law paper or contract about the exclusivity for what i know, just DE promise to not release him to show respect to something happened 5 years ago.

If they would to change the dispo in a remote future all players can quote that post and be right about the injustice of that decision.

Edited November 12, 2018 by (PS4)cleefsentence

[Dabnician]

I think its funny how you all KNOW which weapons are crap IE the ones that REALLY NEED A RIVEN, BUT every one is like "oh noes dont touch my rubico/kohm/acra/<insert weapon that doesn't need riven here>"

If the community flat out tells you "Get a HEK at MR 4, it will carry you to 10 with little issue" i think its pretty safe to say you dont need anything over a 2 on that.

Rubico, Lanka, Kohm, You all KNOW they should be a 1, KOHM is one of the few weapons that will cut a corpse into 4 piece for a nekros to desecrate.

These are just loot caves for lazy gamers, Its pretty easy when you actually think about it from the view of a non gamer, or at the very least as some one that doesn't want to just cheat their way to the end. You all just care about trading plat then you do about the game staying around, they should add a maximum platinum per trade and set it to be something like 300 & make platinum not trad able after you receive it, honestly that would teach all of you.

3 minutes ago, (PS4)cleefsentence said:

just DE promise to not release him to show respect to something happened 5 years ago.

 You all got Excalibur umbra instead so really you didnt really lose anything and its better than excal prime.

 

[(PSN)cleefsentence]

23 minutes ago, Skaleek said:

Nothing should get special treatment. Just because a riven disposition threatens to ruin a weapons "way of working" doesnt mean it should be exempt. The recent riven changes messed up more than 1 of my builds. Its the price of progress, nothing should be exempt from this.

Seems that some peoples can't understand the "special" definition:

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Definition of special 

(Entry 1 of 2)

1: distinguished by some unusual quality especially : being in some way superiorour

2: held in particular esteem

3a: readily distinguishable from others of the same category : UNIQUE

b: of, relating to, or constituting a species : SPECIFIC

4: being other than the usual : ADDITIONAL, EXTRA

 

 

3 minutes ago, Dabnician said:

 You all got Excalibur umbra instead so really you didnt really lose anything and its better than excal prime.

 

I'm not complaining about ex prime, just take him as an example.

Edited November 12, 2018 by (PS4)cleefsentence

[----Legacy----]

32 minutes ago, (PS4)cleefsentence said:

And you're failing to understand that the kohm usage is not something that DE would care, like they haven't care in these past 5 years with the nerf of weapons and frames and now with the dispo nerf of 90% of the meta weapons in the game.

Read the previously post, i explain the rest.

They cared about it and they probably noticed that the weapon usage increased mainly thanks to people with a riven for it, but still the increase might have been not enough to justify the disposition drop they had in mind and decided to give it a free pass this time.

You should stop being so narrow minded and try to see things from a different angle instead of getting bitter even at the smallest things.

They could have said "kohm isn't popular enough to justify a disposition change" in the workshop and this thread wouldn't exist. I'd say it's more about bad wording and poor damage control rather than special treatment.

Edited November 12, 2018 by ----Legacy----

[(PSN)cleefsentence]

2 minutes ago, ----Legacy---- said:

They cared about it and they probably noticed that the weapon usage increased mainly thanks to people with a riven for it, but still the increase might have been not enough to justify the disposition drop they had in mind and decided to give it a free pass this time.

You should stop being so narrow minded and try to see things from a different angle instead of getting bitter even at the smallest things.

Yeah because the narrow minded here is me, so funny.

Sadly for you 5 years of game and choices by DE repeated over time in the same way, except for just the kohm case (that casually has an overpriced riven market behind it) totally bashing that "they care about kohm usage!" without too much effort by me.

[Kontrollo]

Feels more like the disposition wouldn't have changed enough to justify such a disproportionate reduction in power. Or in other words, while the disposition multiplier is linear, its effects are not in some cases.

I'd wager that when it becomes more popular -- and I'm sure it will -- the disposition will drop eventually.

Edited November 12, 2018 by Kontrollo

[Koed]

On 2018-11-09 at 6:52 PM, 420-chan said:

The reasoning for not nerfing Kohm is perfectly fine. The disposition change was not intended to bring about very drastic changes in the values of the affected rivens; that's why they limit the change to a maximum of 0.2 in the first place. DE does not wish to upset the market and owners of said rivens too much, so the changes were mostly not that significant. None of the rivens were gutted; Rubico Lanka and Tiberon were hit hard but they'll still perform similarly to before. Their prices will drop but not drastically.

Taking this in account, it was perfectly reasonable to leave Kohm rivens as they are. Nerfs to its disposition will disproportionately affect its performance and value, and in effect lead to a much larger change than a simple 0.2 adjustment. It would cause a significant drop in Kohm rivens' values and a market upset that DE did not intend for with this update. If, however, there is to be a disposition adjustment without a limit, then I fully expect DE to include Kohm in their list of nerfs. 

Also @OP that's a pretty weak showcase of the Kohm's power. A good 120% status chance riven should be significantly better.

This guy sums it up.

I had godly rivens for the likes of Amprex and Opticor nerfed and it barely made a difference, honestly. I also have a 165% Status Chance Kohm riven (which probably would have survived the nerf round) but others might have 120-130% SC. A nerf which would put it below 120%? THAT would be a massive blow. It could honestly devalue the riven to 10% of its original value.

U can call me biased all u want but DE made the right call.

[LordOfScrugging]

Idk why i sat here an read most of this, changes happen, and while i'm not in the camp of "DE made the wrong choice in leaving khom alone" I frankly don't care, my corinth got buffed (but my pyrana p got nerfed :<) and im content with that, plus the changes weren't drastic to other weapons. I think the issue stems with the weapon itself however. If a weapon needs a riven mod (something that no 2 players can really get the same version of) then it's the weapon that needs to be looked at.

[Dabnician]

19 hours ago, Kontrollo said:

Feels more like the disposition wouldn't have changed enough to justify such a disproportionate reduction in power. Or in other words, while the disposition multiplier is linear, its effects are not in some cases.

I'd wager that when it becomes more popular -- and I'm sure it will -- the disposition will drop eventually.

Maybe this is the issue at heart and disposition changes aren't happening because a change on a 1-5 scale isn't granular enough. Which could possible be happening with other weapons, maybe things aren't getting bumped up because again 1-5 is too small of a scale whatever modifier is behind how powerful rivens are.

Maybe we need a scale of 1-10 or 1-30 even, Then we could have groups of riven changes and not broad sweeping ones that have this all or nothing attitude...

[Blackthorn66]

On 2018-11-12 at 3:47 PM, (PS4)cleefsentence said:

DE itself acknowledged the need of keeping a dispo 5 to not ruin the weapon for those that DEPENDS on them.

You just have to read, this is an official post by DE Connor in the Riven topic:

 

If they change the dispo after saying that good luck with the backlash. Do you know about excalibur prime? There is no law paper or contract about the exclusivity for what i know, just DE promise to not release him to show respect to something happened 5 years ago.

If they would to change the dispo in a remote future all players can quote that post and be right about the injustice of that decision.

This isn't even close to confirmation that they'll never touch the Kohm. In fact, I don't see the word "never" in there at all. All they'd have to do is buff the base status, and boom, they can touch the riven dispo all they want. Especially since they have NOT confirmed THAT they'd never touch the Kohm. 

[-Temp0-]

Lv 150 the strongest enemies you will encounter... Thats cute. 

Also enjoy the slap in the face plebs that liked the lanka and plasmor and whose builds ALSO 'DEPEND ON RIVENS' , because of course everyones equal but some are more so than others. Corruption level and hypocricy here doesnt cease to impress me personally. 

Edited November 14, 2018 by -Temp0-

[Ghogiel]

I have both a kohm and detron riven and I think DE saying they aren't changing the dispo, even when they are blatantly highlighting those dispos are completely out of place, completely invalidates the entire reason for dispoistion even existing. What even is disposition now lol.

Not that some of the changes made a whole lot of sense to me, but I can't seen the weapon usage % DE has to gauge true usage % across the player base.

[Ghogiel]

16 hours ago, Dabnician said:

Maybe this is the issue at heart and disposition changes aren't happening because a change on a 1-5 scale isn't granular enough. Which could possible be happening with other weapons, maybe things aren't getting bumped up because again 1-5 is too small of a scale whatever modifier is behind how powerful rivens are.

Maybe we need a scale of 1-10 or 1-30 even, Then we could have groups of riven changes and not broad sweeping ones that have this all or nothing attitude...

the 1-5 is just front end UI. It doesn't really convey the fact that dispos are actually 0.5 to about 1.6 or something. And already use 2 decimal places for adjustment as shown in the riven workshop. ie some rivens that were changed haven't moved on the 1-5 UI scale at all but were buffed or nerfed by low 0.05

[(PSN)cleefsentence]

5 hours ago, Blackthorn66 said:

This isn't even close to confirmation that they'll never touch the Kohm. In fact, I don't see the word "never" in there at all. All they'd have to do is buff the base status, and boom, they can touch the riven dispo all they want. Especially since they have NOT confirmed THAT they'd never touch the Kohm. 

Sure, but if they buff the base stats even with a lower dispo the kohm power would not change at all and they will still threat the kohm as a special case.

 

4 hours ago, -Temp0- said:

Lv 150 the strongest enemies you will encounter... Thats cute. 

Also enjoy the slap in the face plebs that liked the lanka and plasmor and whose builds ALSO 'DEPEND ON RIVENS' , because of course everyones equal but some are more so than others. Corruption level and hypocricy here doesnt cease to impress me personally. 

Welcome, seems that you don't know how to read, that's cute:

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versus lvl. 150 corrupted bombards and heavy gunners, the strongest enemies you may will encounter in the game cause of their armor value so high.

i was referring to the enemies type (high armored ones) not their level, pretty clear for me.

Edited November 14, 2018 by (PS4)cleefsentence

[-Temp0-]

29 минут назад, (PS4)cleefsentence сказал:

Sure, but if they buff the base stats even with a lower dispo the kohm power would not change at all and they will still threat the kohm as a special case.

 

Welcome, seems that you don't know how to read, that's cute:

i was referring to the enemies type (high armored ones) not their level, pretty clear for me.

Doesnt change the demn thing, because surprise surprise, the higher the level the higher the armor. What kills lv 150 will be irrelevant against lv 500 or 1000.

Dont try to weasel your way out with this stupid "obviously". The only thing that's obvious here is that you've no idea what you're talking about.

[(PSN)cleefsentence]

14 minutes ago, -Temp0- said:

Doesnt change the demn thing, because surprise surprise, the higher the level the higher the armor. What kills lv 150 will be irrelevant against lv 500 or 1000.

Dont try to weasel your way out with this stupid "obviously". The only thing that's obvious here is that you've no idea what you're talking about.

What out, we have a badass here.

Do you know that enemies have a base values and some of them got higher stats (a butcher armor is not the same of a bombard)? Do you know that your lvl 500 and 1000 is not something that you have to face in the game and not recognized by DE? DE game is designed around a max level of 100, if you're a try harder good for you, go play your endurance run.

And chill down too.

Edited November 14, 2018 by (PS4)cleefsentence

[CoolDudeMcCool]

All we can go off of is that one quote, I believe it's being misinterpreted though.

Quote

EDIT: Wanted to clear up one comment I'm seeing lots of. Many of you have mentioned the Kohm as well as Detron - These weapons were marked for a reduction, but we opted not to change them, because some players depend on these Rivens to achieve 100% status chance. Because of this, small disposition changes had the chance to make a much larger impact on these weapons, so we have left them as is

"Small disposition changes" "much larger impact"

I think the point here is that they don't want a small change to have a big impact. If they make a bigger change, or Kohm keeps being popular, they could nerf its disposition all in one go instead of one small increment at a time. We don't really know. 

[Spectre-8]

TLDR; The OP is trolling .