Garuda vs Valkyr

[(XBOX)ALTBOULI]

1 hour ago, EinheriarJudith said:

it isnt though. ripline is an out of place skill in her kit giving her an activatable leap makes more sense with her cat-like reflexs. nothing ive said actually changes the theme or even the playstyle of the frame it just makes it more fluid.

You suggested changing the core mechanics for 2 of her abilities and turn her into a 'proper tank. This is exactly what a rework is...

[AlphaPHENIX]

In ''Fate/'' terms, she is a berserker that retains at least some of their sanity instead of going comepletly mad.

Now I don't expect everyone to get the reference or understand my explanation, but I am putting it here just incase someone does and may be able to translate to the rest.

[EinheriarJudith]

49 minutes ago, (XB1)ALTBOULI said:

You suggested changing the core mechanics for 2 of her abilities and turn her into a 'proper tank. This is exactly what a rework is...

the core mechanic of hysteria is that it switches to a weapon. invulnerability isnt its core mechanic. sure ill agree about changing ripline but changing one power completely isnt a rework she will still have an exalted mode, her shout, paralysis and will have a new gap closer that makes sense. dont see how its a rework.

[(XBOX)ALTBOULI]

41 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

the core mechanic of hysteria is that it switches to a weapon. invulnerability isnt its core mechanic. sure ill agree about changing ripline but changing one power completely isnt a rework she will still have an exalted mode, her shout, paralysis and will have a new gap closer that makes sense. dont see how its a rework.

Yes it is! Any changes to a power behaviour or warframe behaviour as a whole is a rework. Reworks can be minor changes.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

On 2018-11-10 at 4:31 PM, EinheriarJudith said:

it isnt though. ripline is an out of place skill in her kit giving her an activatable leap makes more sense with her cat-like reflexs. nothing ive said actually changes the theme or even the playstyle of the frame it just makes it more fluid.

Hysterical assault.

[EinheriarJudith]

2 hours ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Hysterical assault.

nay that is an augment ripline is out dated by parkour 2.0 a proper gap closer needs to be put in there one that is like other offensive gap closers.

[peterc3]

1 hour ago, EinheriarJudith said:

nay that is an augment ripline is out dated by parkour 2.0 a proper gap closer needs to be put in there one that is like other offensive gap closers.

A proper gap closer even though she is supposed to be fairly limited by only having access to Melee and her abilities, currently having to give up a slot to not have to deal with that.

Rip line and Parkour 2.0 can actually be used together, I know, shocking news that must be.

Just because something works differently for another frame, doesn't make it right for every frame.

On 2018-11-10 at 4:15 AM, EinheriarJudith said:

she doesnt need a rework at all. they need to remove that invulnerability from hysteria, give her more hp as a proper tank should have, turn ripline into a dash like slashdash or landslide and shes good to go.

On 2018-11-10 at 4:23 AM, EinheriarJudith said:

hahahaha ikr. all the bad things that are in hysteria i think are because of the invulnerability. they should just remove it since hysteria has lifesteal. i would definitely give her more HP though. same with atlas dont know why nidus can have 1k hp but atlas and valkyr are at 750. hell even ash has over 1k and he has fricken stealth.

On 2018-11-10 at 5:31 PM, EinheriarJudith said:

it isnt though. ripline is an out of place skill in her kit giving her an activatable leap makes more sense with her cat-like reflexs. nothing ive said actually changes the theme or even the playstyle of the frame it just makes it more fluid.

You are saying an existing ability needs to be replaced, completely change how another ability works, and to change her stats. This is a fairly major rework for a frame that has no immediate concerns.

Your proposed changes are heavily changing the play style of Valkyr. Nothing inherently wrong with that, but the reality is it is a rework and one that significantly affects how Valkyr would be played.

[Acos]

Garuda strikes me as a Blood Mage with a melee gimmick

[(XBOX)Onyx Schnee]

On 2018-11-10 at 5:49 PM, AlphaPHENIX said:

In ''Fate/'' terms, she is a berserker that retains at least some of their sanity instead of going comepletly mad.

Now I don't expect everyone to get the reference or understand my explanation, but I am putting it here just incase someone does and may be able to translate to the rest.

I GET IT!

[AlphaPHENIX]

27 minutes ago, (XB1)Orcus Imperium said:

I GET IT!

Thanks.

[Autongnosis]

Tbh i don't think they overlap at all. Valkyr is a tank/melee DPS with some minor support capabilities. 

Garuda is a brawling caster/aoe debuffer with some DPS capabilities and healing support. 

If anything they both could be so much better with just small touch ups here and there, like:

- for garuda, a faster casting speed on the hold 1 function and on her 4th,and maybe some minor secondary effect on her marks.

- for Valkyr, some interactions with ripline (like enemies being pinned to the ground when riplined and maybe an auto ground finisher if held cast) and Warcry's slow becoming an aura that shrinks and expands based on kills.

 

Also, as a side note i really wished Ripline worked more like a swing line (spiderman web-like) and cost less energy if used for movement. 

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

7 hours ago, peterc3 said:

A proper gap closer even though she is supposed to be fairly limited by only having access to Melee and her abilities, currently having to give up a slot to not have to deal with that.

Rip line and Parkour 2.0 can actually be used together, I know, shocking news that must be.

Just because something works differently for another frame, doesn't make it right for every frame.

You are saying an existing ability needs to be replaced, completely change how another ability works, and to change her stats. This is a fairly major rework for a frame that has no immediate concerns.

Your proposed changes are heavily changing the play style of Valkyr. Nothing inherently wrong with that, but the reality is it is a rework and one that significantly affects how Valkyr would be played.

Valkyr DOES need a rework. I just disagree with a "gap closer". Would prefer something that inflicts/procs status and synergizes with hysteria.. Her paralyze needs a change too... 

[Birdframe_Prime]

13 hours ago, EinheriarJudith said:

nay that is an augment ripline is out dated by parkour 2.0 a proper gap closer needs to be put in there one that is like other offensive gap closers.

But she's going to get one in Melee 3.0 anyway...

[EinheriarJudith]

15 minutes ago, Thaylien said:

But she's going to get one in Melee 3.0 anyway...

i hope so.

[Birdframe_Prime]

2 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

i hope so.

If I think back on the stream, they actually had something really cool for the Claws (not hers, but the weapons), which was that the Block combo, rather than being a direct distance closer was actually a kind of ranged punch, that stabbed multiple times into the air while blocking and things the distance of a normal closer away were getting damaged. But that's probably all different now... so we can look forward to good things there ^^

[(PSN)psycofang]

15 hours ago, Autongnosis said:

for garuda, a faster casting speed on the hold 1 function and on her 4th,and maybe some minor secondary effect on her marks.

It stuns enemies, applies low level bleed and the marks give everything an 85% chance to proc a slah proc regardless of the weapons damage type. What more could it need to do?

[Autongnosis]

Il y a 6 heures, (PS4)psycofang a dit :

It stuns enemies, applies low level bleed and the marks give everything an 85% chance to proc a slah proc regardless of the weapons damage type. What more could it need to do?

It also has a longass casting time to have any kind of decent AoE on a frame that's pretty vulnerable to anything that doesn't come from the front. 

I meant something REALLY minor, like some small buffs to her other skills in conjunction with the marks. 

Something that warrants that really long casting animation and makes her kit work in a mor cohesive way. 

OR, marked enemies interact in some way with her Talons if you are using those. 

 

Make no mistake, i really like her and she's really good imo, this is more a question of feeling. The ult has an amazing design but other that "slash procs to everyone" it doesn't feel really good tbh. 

Edited November 13, 2018 by Autongnosis

[knightlol]

On 2018-11-10 at 4:15 AM, EinheriarJudith said:

she doesnt need a rework at all. they need to remove that invulnerability from hysteria, give her more hp as a proper tank should have, turn ripline into a dash like slashdash or landslide and shes good to go.

Please no. There are enough slide, dash based melee powers in this game. Her ripline maybe a bit dated for parkour but you can use it for things like bringing down drones etc. Which is very useful in melee only play. While keeping her unique. 

18 hours ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Valkyr DOES need a rework. I just disagree with a "gap closer". Would prefer something that inflicts/procs status and synergizes with hysteria.. Her paralyze needs a change too... 

Valkyr can def use some quality of life things. But I disagree with some of the methods proposed here. Honestly 90 or even 99 percent damage redux is easy enough to gain now  a days through mods alone. Honestly when the suicide bubble first became an issue after her duration was removed. I was not happy but now I see that I actually think its a fun quirks of hers. The biggest changes that i think needs to be made, as someone who mains her, and has her and her prime as some of my most used frames. is that there needs to be a way to go back to properly building for her hybrid eternal war/hysteria build Along with giving her powers some QOL updates. 

For instance giving ripline homing to better hit targets, Giving paralysis a longer range, or making it so that releasing more then 1 roar increases how long enemies remain prone.  For War cry honestly i think every player would love warcry and eternal war to be fused. And for her 4. I can see being 100 percent immune a problem. But i dont think it needs to be removed. Instead have it so Shes still 100 percent immune at the start of the ability, but over time as long as you are in it, that immunity drops slowly and as it stops dropping instead of the damage you are taking currently the damage that you have stored up starts being delt to you. This stored up damage can be healed by killing enemies. 

Just some of my ideas. 

[knightlol]

On 2018-11-10 at 4:15 AM, EinheriarJudith said:

she doesnt need a rework at all. they need to remove that invulnerability from hysteria, give her more hp as a proper tank should have, turn ripline into a dash like slashdash or landslide and shes good to go.

Please no. There are enough slide, dash based melee powers in this game. Her ripline maybe a bit dated for parkour but you can use it for things like bringing down drones etc. Which is very useful in melee only play. While keeping her unique. 

18 hours ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Valkyr DOES need a rework. I just disagree with a "gap closer". Would prefer something that inflicts/procs status and synergizes with hysteria.. Her paralyze needs a change too... 

Valkyr can def use some quality of life things. But I disagree with some of the methods proposed here. Honestly 90 or even 99 percent damage redux is easy enough to gain now  a days through mods alone. Honestly when the suicide bubble first became an issue after her duration was removed. I was not happy but now I see that I actually think its a fun quirks of hers. The biggest changes that i think needs to be made, as someone who mains her, and has her and her prime as some of my most used frames. is that there needs to be a way to go back to properly building for her hybrid eternal war/hysteria build Along with giving her powers some QOL updates. 

For instance giving ripline homing to better hit targets, Giving paralysis a longer range, or making it so that releasing more then 1 roar increases how long enemies remain prone.  For War cry honestly i think every player would love warcry and eternal war to be fused. And for her 4. I can see being 100 percent immune a problem. But i dont think it needs to be removed. Instead have it so Shes still 100 percent immune at the start of the ability, but over time as long as you are in it, that immunity drops slowly and as it stops dropping instead of the damage you are taking currently the damage that you have stored up starts being delt to you. This stored up damage can be healed by killing enemies. 

Just some of my ideas. 

[(PSN)psycofang]

1 hour ago, Autongnosis said:

It also has a longass casting time to have any kind of decent AoE on a frame that's pretty vulnerable to anything that doesn't come from the front. 

Usually youll have your friendly and unwilling health pack mob(s) to help you stay alive *if* you do get shot in the butt.

Usually only survival and defense does getting shot in the butt have a real likelihood of occuring and the areas in which you can die in 1 shot vs your health pack mobs and armor is pretty low considering the time required to get that high. 

1 hour ago, Autongnosis said:

I meant something REALLY minor, like some small buffs to her other skills in conjunction with the marks

So like her 1 trigger quick slash procs from a 50-93k orb in a localised area? 

It already does enough imo, proper spacing means everything in the PoV of that attack gets bled and stunned for your whole group to get wholesale slaughter on. 

Pre prepped orb just means the next group you see gets 4-1d with out charging and they choke.

1 hour ago, Autongnosis said:

Something that warrants that really long casting animation and makes her kit work in a mor cohesive way. 

Her kit already has cohesion, her 1 gives a damage projectile and shield, her 2 sets up strong as hell healing and can be tethered to 3 targets, those targets block your body and give nonsense regen. 

Her 3 jacks up the damage temporarily and gives energy to charge her orb

Her 4 is fast unless you want the whole room stunned and marked which tbh warrants the cost because the return from doing that is bonkers.

 

No keep in mind im not invalidating your opinion but i feel.like, considering her kit, any unwarranted  buffs given to appease ppls is going to turn her into an easier, deadlier Equinox thats now very hard to kill.