Trinity 9.8: Feedback Thread

[GTG3000]

Well, with old EV you could at least make sure you have energy to spare. Of course, both fail if you are playing with randoms.

 

Strong CC is nice and all, but Warframe is a dynamic game about fast and agile spaceninjas. Rewarding patience should have little place here, especially on such scale.

 

Adding an AoE was a very good idea, but having to wait makes it subpar indeed.

[SiyahaS]

Here is my testing results :

 

1-) Duration mods(bugged or intended) to give you longer tick interval. Which makes duration mods useless in terms of energy gain.

 

2-) EV damage seems to get greater percents with higher lv mobs.

 

1 lv grineer lancer takes ~8% damage

15 lv grineer lancer takes ~13,1% damage

45 lv runner takes ~20% damage

 

of his current life. This means EV cant kill a mob if its constantly used.(damages rounded down). But if you use WoL and just before ends it u cast a EV you can kill nearly every mob with just one tick.

 

NOTE : In theory you can kill a mob with just EV if the initial percent is 25 or higher.

 

3-) EV seems to be bugged when you are not host. Tick damage is doubled.-there was no nova or sth like amplifying damage-. This gives more problems about making a constant energy battery in defense lvs.

 

4-) EV's can be stacked at same mob(generally will kill it). two or more trinity can use same target for faster energy regain but tick damage will kill it-tried on 50+ lv infested ancients-. 

 

5-) WoL can ruin the cryopod if you use it on an ancient too close to pod ^-^ (in theory i couldnt try it)

[GottFaust]

I've been playing around with Trinity some more and I have to say: assuming they fix the scaling problems with Continuity/Constitution and Energy Vampire, we're looking at a god-tier character. Not only that, but one who is challenging and fun to play. The end result is infinite health, energy, and pure invulnerability to the entire party 100% of the time. While this is completely doable right now it requires the majority of the player's focus. Once they fix the duration scaling, it will be doable while still playing as normal.

Long story short: Trinity is god tier, and once they fix the Continuity/Constitution glitches with Energy Vampire, she'll be god-of-gods tier.

[Jaxomfaux]

Having used the trinity update a few times now here's my opinion (mostly agreeing with others but still)

 

well of life: actually usuable now! thanks.

 

energy vampire: not so impressive. needs to either get the WOL treatment or be a more visible pylon so people don't blast it in 1.2 seconds after i glow him. I'd prefer something like the new WOL.

 

link: understand the change, my jury is still out on me liking it though but it seemed to do well in cynath - eris.  Didn't notice any knockback or toxic damage while it was up so i'm happy (did take knockdown though).

 

blessing:  blessing is fine. thanks for invulnerability during casting.

[GTG3000]

I've been playing around with Trinity some more and I have to say: assuming they fix the scaling problems with Continuity/Constitution and Energy Vampire, we're looking at a god-tier character. Not only that, but one who is challenging and fun to play. The end result is infinite health, energy, and pure invulnerability to the entire party 100% of the time. While this is completely doable right now it requires the majority of the player's focus. Once they fix the duration scaling, it will be doable while still playing as normal.

Long story short: Trinity is god tier, and once they fix the Continuity/Constitution glitches with Energy Vampire, she'll be god-of-gods tier.

 

Dude, you probably missed your chance to play with pre-nerf trinity. She ALWAYS was invulnerable, fully-charged goddess of war. Only now it costs a lot more and is annoying when you need to stop and wait.

 

Also, before anyone says - no, being invulnerable isn't bad if you're an otherwise flimsy support with no good damaging skills. Unlike being invulnerable when you're a powerhouse that can take out whole room.

Edited September 9, 2013 by GTG3000

[Amistyrja]

Anyone else using Focus and Stretch on Trinity now?

[Casardis]

I only use Stretch. Focus doesn't increase that much for EV, and it takes 11 capacity. The damage that EV does on bosses without the mod is already big as well.

 

Focus doesn't seem to affect Link's mitigation and reflected damage either, so it's useless for that power.

[GottFaust]

Dude, you probably missed your chance to play with pre-nerf trinity. She ALWAYS was invulnerable, fully-charged goddess of war. Only now it costs a lot more and is annoying when you need to stop and wait.

 

Also, before anyone says - no, being invulnerable isn't bad if you're an otherwise flimsy support with no good damaging skills. Unlike being invulnerable when you're a powerhouse that can take out whole room.

Nope, I've had her polarized 3x since way before the recent change. Yes, I knew how to play her. Here are some things you neglected to mention:

• Link was not perfect. There were plenty of situations where damage would get though and often result in your death.
• Energy Vampire was rather bad. It took a while to actually kick in after the cast and the target was often dead long before the casting animation even finished unless it was a lvl 180 infested ancient. At which point you could get 150 energy back and that was it.
• She never had damage output to begin with.

Now she's still an "always invulnerable, fully-charged goddess of war", and so is the rest of the party.

[Amistyrja]

I only use Stretch. Focus doesn't increase that much for EV, and it takes 11 capacity. The damage that EV does on bosses without the mod is already big as well.

 

Focus doesn't seem to affect Link's mitigation and reflected damage either, so it's useless for that power.

I have a spot free because I don't use Well of Life, so I put Focus on it instead. Got any suggestions for other mods I could use instead?

[GottFaust]

I have a spot free because I don't use Well of Life, so I put Focus on it instead. Got any suggestions for other mods I could use instead?

The new Well of Life is basically mandatory if you want to use Energy Vampire on anything outside of extremely high level heavy units. Seriously, pop WoL on a target followed by EV on the same target. You'll see the difference immediately.

[Yefrign]

after playing her a bit I can say I do like the changes to Well of Life...

but thats all I've enjoyed. Energy Vampire is.... okay, sort of. I still think the pulse is too slow.

and Link... please don't make me go there.

[Amistyrja]

The new Well of Life is basically mandatory if you want to use Energy Vampire on anything outside of extremely high level heavy units. Seriously, pop WoL on a target followed by EV on the same target. You'll see the difference immediately.

I never really bothered. I just mark my EV target with a waypoint and most of the time my teammates understand =D

[GTG3000]

Nope, I've had her polarized 3x since way before the recent change. Yes, I knew how to play her. Here are some things you neglected to mention:

• Link was not perfect. There were plenty of situations where damage would get though and often result in your death.
• Energy Vampire was rather bad. It took a while to actually kick in after the cast and the target was often dead long before the casting animation even finished unless it was a lvl 180 infested ancient. At which point you could get 150 energy back and that was it.
• She never had damage output to begin with.

Now she's still an "always invulnerable, fully-charged goddess of war", and so is the rest of the party.

 

 

Well, first is a bug and should have been fixed (personally I wasn't experiencing anything but occasional shield damage under it, so don't know).

Second, it still takes a plenty of time to kick in and the target still can be dead, not to mention that now you have to wait until it works.

And third, she's a motherbucking support char. She has no need for damage output besides her weapons.

 

As for making the party constantly invulnerable, well that is OP as hell and that is what should have received the changes and nerfs.

[Xelchon]

Yes, as many would agree Trinity has gotten even worse. I need to say one thing here; just an advice. Warframe by warframe, write down all the warframe abilities onto a single text except Trinity. Simply read them aloud and memorize what all the other warframes are capable of doing. Then lastly go to Trinity read her abilities again.

That should be about enough to make you realize how feeble her abilities are.

 

Suggestion:

 

Well of Life: Stays as is.

 

Health Link: If you think it was too overpowered before, then the way it is right now is fine as well; but to be honest, return it to whatever it was before the patch. Edit: OR maybe stays as the updated version; but it also works with friendly fire as well? So, when we see a red trinity, we shoot her. Simple as that.

 

Energy Vampire: Target and surrounding enemies up to xx meters will lose 20-30-40-50% of their mobility and 10-15-20-25 % of their damage output. The affected enemies are inflicted a "symbolic" amount of damage; the damage is converted to and distributed among the Tenno as energy. Limit to energy drained: xx

 

Blessing:

 

Suggestion-1: Works as is; but boosts the damage output and damage resistance of the affected Tenno. The buff effect grows weaker the longer it stays until it diminishes after 5-10-15-20 seconds.

Damage resistance starts with %100 and stays so for  1-2-3-4 seconds; after that, rapidly diminishing.

Damage boost starts with xx percent and fades with a higher arc than resistance.

 

Suggestion-2: Works as is, but has the three types of effects on the enemies in a certain radius.

Infested: A considerable amount of damage inflicted.

Grineer: Enemy armour is reduced by xx percent.

Corpus: Enemy dmg output is reduced by xx percent.

 

Some variables I wrote down are too high? Nerf what I've written; I'm not very confident on how the variables will reflect inside the game. Written them just to give a general idea.

Edited September 9, 2013 by Xelchon

[SanityRobot]

• Energy Vampire was rather bad. It took a while to actually kick in after the cast and the target was often dead long before the casting animation even finished unless it was a lvl 180 infested ancient. At which point you could get 150 energy back and that was it.

 

And the only way this isn't true now is if you use WoL on the target before EV. Then have everyone huddle around it for 20 seconds.

 

And it still dies nearly instantly unless it's level 80+ and/or heavy.

Edited September 9, 2013 by SanityRobot

[Andoryuu]

Nope, I've had her polarized 3x since way before the recent change. Yes, I knew how to play her. Here are some things you neglected to mention:

• Link was not perfect. There were plenty of situations where damage would get though and often result in your death.
• Energy Vampire was rather bad. It took a while to actually kick in after the cast and the target was often dead long before the casting animation even finished unless it was a lvl 180 infested ancient. At which point you could get 150 energy back and that was it.
• She never had damage output to begin with.

Now she's still an "always invulnerable, fully-charged goddess of war", and so is the rest of the party.

 

With a little bit of help from your clanmates, you can repolarize anything 3x in a day or two, so it's not really indicator of how much you played her.

 

Link was bugged after some of the recent updates. If it's the only thing you remember about Link, you didn't play Trinity for too long.

 

I don't know what "kick in" you are talking about but I could get my energy in a second even from low level mob.

If you didn't know how to pick the right mob to get your energy back and it died before you finished your casting, I can't imagine how you can consider current version any better because that choosing is even more important now. You have to babysit affected target for 15s to get those 100 energy. With old EV you could get 400+ energy in the same time.

 

Yes, she never had high damage output... because she is support frame which should care more about how to keep her teammates alive and replenished than how to decimate advancing groups of mobs with one ability. She should outlast her enemies and she was great at it.

 

 

And to all those who said that before Trinity just cared about herself with Link invulnerability but now she has to keep her teammates invulnerable to... You apparently met players who normaly plays damage frames and they tried to play Trinity in the same way. And then complained on forums she has no damage output.

[YagoXiten]

For all of you talking about how strategic or deep the "combos" between Well of Life and Energy Vampire and Link and Blessing are...

 

Synergy is when the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.

 

Forced synergy is when the the whole is greater than the sum of its parts, except this time the balance hinges upon one particular combo and cannot survive without it. Generally speaking forced synergy is broken, balance wise, because either you end  up creating a combo too strong if the spells are strong enough to be used on their own or making abilities that are useless unless used together.

 

Trinity's case is the latter.

 

Well of Life was too weak to stand on its own. It was massively buffed. Unfortunately, this doesn't really address the reason it wasn't used. Now it has a stun and temporary life increase on the target, though...but this mostly serves to let you use the new Energy Vampire.

It's funny. People said she pretty much had the same 1 & 2 abilities before...Now they pretty much are, because Well of Life still doesn't really do what it's meant to. Yeah. It's more useful now. But using it as a heal is just an inferior choice to using it as a stun...

 

And Link and Blessing isn't some nice combo, either. Link's damage reduction is completely wasted whilst you're invulnerable, and unless the reduction % is really high the ability doesn't stand very well on it's own because you have no reason to use it over Blessing. Oh, and you will still die fairly quickly. The damage return isn't really all that useful when things aren't hitting you (as we've noticed with Nyx's Absorb), and damage was never Trinity's job anyways.

 

Everything hinges too much on Blessing.
 

 

Return Energy Vampire to how it worked before, but make it restore the Energy in an AoE around the target when they're damaged. If Trinity was giving too much Energy to her allies before, then make it only restore 50 Energy, but double that for Trinity.

 

Make Link an aura around Trinity that grants her immunity to stuns and crowd control, and her and her allies damage reduction. The part of the damage that was ignored is reflected back at the enemy that caused it.

 

Blessing should strictly grant invulnerabilty and for a shorter duration. It doesn't need to restore health or shields. Well of Life can be to restore Health, and shields will regenerate during Blessing anyways.

[TunaMayo]

Well, with old EV you could at least make sure you have energy to spare. Of course, both fail if you are playing with randoms.

 

Strong CC is nice and all, but Warframe is a dynamic game about fast and agile spaceninjas. Rewarding patience should have little place here, especially on such scale.

 

Adding an AoE was a very good idea, but having to wait makes it subpar indeed.

With a focus mod, Energy Vampire give you so much energy, it is crazy. It is better than the previous vamp as it is more team oriented. Mixed with the new well of life, you get a tanky target, that can't hit you, that gives the whole team energy and health.

Blessing is as it was, link has been changed to give more damage. I'm not sure how I feel about this, it was always redundant having two godmode powers but now link just feels out of place on trinity.

Using blessing, well of life and energy vamp on trin I never run out of energy and no one goes down. Link is basically there for damage, which is fairly pitiful at best. My suggestion would be to remove link entirely and create a new power, I never saw trinity as a damage frame.

[GottFaust]

With a little bit of help from your clanmates, you can repolarize anything 3x in a day or two, so it's not really indicator of how much you played her.

 

Link was bugged after some of the recent updates. If it's the only thing you remember about Link, you didn't play Trinity for too long.

 

I don't know what "kick in" you are talking about but I could get my energy in a second even from low level mob.

If you didn't know how to pick the right mob to get your energy back and it died before you finished your casting, I can't imagine how you can consider current version any better because that choosing is even more important now. You have to babysit affected target for 15s to get those 100 energy. With old EV you could get 400+ energy in the same time.

 

Yes, she never had high damage output... because she is support frame which should care more about how to keep her teammates alive and replenished than how to decimate advancing groups of mobs with one ability. She should outlast her enemies and she was great at it.

 

 

And to all those who said that before Trinity just cared about herself with Link invulnerability but now she has to keep her teammates invulnerable to... You apparently met players who normaly plays damage frames and they tried to play Trinity in the same way. And then complained on forums she has no damage output.

"Oh man, you don't agree with me so you must have no idea what you are doing!"

Never mind the fact that I've been around since Closed Beta update 6. Never mind the fact tht Trinity is my third most played frame and that I have over 700 hours in steam and over 500 spent in missions, I must have no idea what I'm talking about. I must not remember that link stopped giving invulnerability for a split second while it was picking a new target if a large number of targets were available. I must not remember that this slight delay was enough for you to take a single tic from a Toxic Ancient's cloud which is enough to kill you with a maxed out vitality mod in wave 50+ Xini. I must not remember how link used to have an extremely short range before U8 which could result in some awkward situations in that huge Grineer Defense map they put out in U7. I must not have ever played her at all before.

Energy Vampire has always had a 150 energy cap. Always. If you didn't realize that it had said cap and that the actual energy drain effect took nearly 2 seconds to kick in after casting it...

But no, don't trust anything I say. I must just be a noob who who has never played this game before regardless of my time playing this game, my time playing Trinity, my getting to wave 80 in the old Xini before Vauban existed, my Tenno rank of 10 (too lazy to rank up all those crappy long swords), or the fact that I'm in the top 1000 players in terms of kills with a most-played frame order of Vauban, Saryn, Trinity.

[GTG3000]

@TunaMayo

EV gives about the same amount it used to, really. You just can't have that amount in any handy way, and need to keep the target WoL-ed only bites into the energy it gives.

 

Like I said, AoE is a very correct step, but changing the ability so you are forced to stand and wait (yes, I played a plenty by now, it is unwieldy) was a poor decision.

 

On it's own WoL is pretty useless unless you want to cc some target, since Blessing does what it should, along with giving invulnerability to everyone, taking away the need to use Link (which is tough to use anyway since you don't have the energy to keep that up anyway). And that only shows, just how godawfully OP Blessing is. 

 

Link was a much needed survivability skill, while blessing is a 100-energy godmode for everyone. Trinity is a flimsy support, and as such was pretty balanced with her powerhungry invulnerability, which was very handy to fulfill the role she had. Unlike it, Blessing is a gamebreaker, letting nuking and cc-ing frames run amok with no limits. 

 

Trinity isn't a Damaging frame, but Link isn't the power that needed to be changed inherently or scrapped. Instead, WoL needs to be fixed into being the healing ability you can actually use to aid your allies in a pinch, and Blessing needs to be reworked completely to make it a long-cooldown emergency ability.

 

@GottFaust 

 

Chill out. We can't straight out see your stats, and that behaviour of Link can be classified as a bug in dire need of fixing.

 

Although still, I don't know about EV - it usually worked instantly for me.

[Tazmanyak]

I was really hoping for this Trinity update.

In my mind, you would fix the botched mecanics of WoL and EV, give them a boost, to make this frame just more pleasant to play;

Sadly, you totally failed your mission.

All arguments have been given right now. Time to react, and give a good Trinity revamp.

[GTG3000]

I was really hoping for this Trinity update.

In my mind, you would fix the botched mecanics of WoL and EV, give them a boost, to make this frame just more pleasant to play;

Sadly, you totally failed your mission.

All arguments have been given right now. Time to react, and give a good Trinity revamp.

 

This seems to be the major problem so far - For some reason Scott prefers to nerf the most used ability instead of reworking and improoving those that underused. I really hope he'll begin to look at how the frame works best before changing it.

[Andoryuu]

"Oh man, you don't agree with me so you must have no idea what you are doing!"

Never mind the fact that I've been around since Closed Beta update 6. Never mind the fact tht Trinity is my third most played frame and that I have over 700 hours in steam and over 500 spent in missions, I must have no idea what I'm talking about. I must not remember that link stopped giving invulnerability for a split second while it was picking a new target if a large number of targets were available. I must not remember that this slight delay was enough for you to take a single tic from a Toxic Ancient's cloud which is enough to kill you with a maxed out vitality mod in wave 50+ Xini. I must not remember how link used to have an extremely short range before U8 which could result in some awkward situations in that huge Grineer Defense map they put out in U7. I must not have ever played her at all before.

Energy Vampire has always had a 150 energy cap. Always. If you didn't realize that it had said cap and that the actual energy drain effect took nearly 2 seconds to kick in after casting it...

But no, don't trust anything I say. I must just be a noob who who has never played this game before regardless of my time playing this game, my time playing Trinity, my getting to wave 80 in the old Xini before Vauban existed, my Tenno rank of 10 (too lazy to rank up all those crappy long swords), or the fact that I'm in the top 1000 players in terms of kills with a most-played frame order of Vauban, Saryn, Trinity.

 

Ok ok, I get it. You were here one update before me. It's possible to keep it short, no need to drown me in your stats.

Still, playing so long you just said, I would expect you would understand that saying right at the beginning you repolarized something 3x doesn't exactly mean you have to know what you are talking about. On the other hand saying you played Trinity since update 6 is right way to go.

 

About Link, I didn't really notice any problems with its using until after one of the recent updates. Since then, it started sometimes leaking damage to my shields. I don't really have much to say about current version. Its damage is insignificant for now. We will be wiser after damage overhaul update.

 

And EV, I've never noticed any delay in effect activation even when I sniped npc immediately after I finished casting animation. Or do you mean there is inactive effect during casting? If so, I don't see difference between your teammates waiting then and now. Except now they have to wait longer.

And I am pretty sure EV always had 100 energy cap, 130 with focus.

 

You see, it's not "Oh man, you don't agree with me so you must have no idea what you are doing!" post. I just had really different experience with Link and EV which is inconsistent with the one you described. Actually, if you didn't use that one sentence with polarization (which is usually used by people who achieved it by the method described earlier), my overal tone would be a lot different and I wouldn't jumped to conclusions.

[low1991]

can DE please fix WoL & EV "power in use" bug?

happen when am not host + AI's die before WoL/EV effect comes into play.

 

Bug at start of game = no more trinity unlimited energy support.

[GottFaust]

Ok ok, I get it. You were here one update before me. It's possible to keep it short, no need to drown me in your stats.

Still, playing so long you just said, I would expect you would understand that saying right at the beginning you repolarized something 3x doesn't exactly mean you have to know what you are talking about. On the other hand saying you played Trinity since update 6 is right way to go.

 

About Link, I didn't really notice any problems with its using until after one of the recent updates. Since then, it started sometimes leaking damage to my shields. I don't really have much to say about current version. Its damage is insignificant for now. We will be wiser after damage overhaul update.

 

And EV, I've never noticed any delay in effect activation even when I sniped npc immediately after I finished casting animation. Or do you mean there is inactive effect during casting? If so, I don't see difference between your teammates waiting then and now. Except now they have to wait longer.

And I am pretty sure EV always had 100 energy cap, 130 with focus.

 

You see, it's not "Oh man, you don't agree with me so you must have no idea what you are doing!" post. I just had really different experience with Link and EV which is inconsistent with the one you described. Actually, if you didn't use that one sentence with polarization (which is usually used by people who achieved it by the method described earlier), my overal tone would be a lot different and I wouldn't jumped to conclusions.

You are correct that link only started actually leaking damage recently, but there were plenty of problems with it prior.

Yes, I was referring to the old cast time being very long and the fact that there was a slight delay after the animation ended and the effect started. It averaged out to roughly 2-3 seconds after you pressed the button. With a high-end squad the entire room can be dead in less than that easily.

I was always able to get a full 150 energy and never ran Focus on my Trinity until the recent rework. Odd that we have different experiences in this.

Something many people have yet to figure out about the new EV: the effect range is actually significantly larger than the graphics would lead you to believe. You can EV a target in the central defense room in Cyath and party members on the far end of one of the side rooms will receive the energy pulses if you have Stretch equipped.