Why Do People Need An Opt Out For Stalker Mode?

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Falconer777 said:

You write frank nonsense.
The same "twist of consciousness" can be written about PvE lovers. Absolutely unsubstantiated)

You seem to lack the capacity of critical reading from how you fail to understand the language used. There is a key difference between a PVP addict and someone who just plays PVP as a player, but PVP game modes attract both kinds. I have stated that PVE addicts are also messed up in real life, because face it, any form of game addiction is unhealthy for the mind and reprehensible. It just so happens that these addicts tend to have different kinds of character to each other and PVP addicts are indeed a bunch of toxic people.

Overall, if someone keeps trying to shove an idea down the throats of others even when repeatedly told that the idea is unacceptable to the other person, this is not someone who loves his idea. This is an addiction and is unhealthy. This is the impression that is given off by some of those on this thread, because all they do is ignore others and present their opinions as the only factually correct one.

But hey, since I say I don't have a good opinion of PVP addicts, you only have the capacity to see the words "PVP" and not "addict". But that's human nature. They can't read everything in full once it doesn't agree with their stance. Cherry picking pieces of what I wrote doesn't change the phrasing, buddy.

[EmberStar]

1 hour ago, Yousho said:

Oh, come on now, don't be such a baby about it. Realistically, how often do you get attacked by the stalker? 

-snip-

If the lack of PVP is a dealbreaker for you, there are *many* other options that might suit your temperment better.  Fortnite, PUBG, DOTA, LOL (and the other alphabet soup of MOBAs) Smite, Overwatch, Hearthstone, The Division, Rainbow Six:  Siege, Without Honor.... er, FOR Honor, Dark Souls, BloodBorne, Honor of Duty:  Headshot Elite (and all the other grey mush of Military Shooters that I don't care about enough to even mock their names properly) and basically every Fighting Game that exists.  (A few apparently have tolerable AI opponents, but if you want Street Fighter, you're probably playing against another person.)  There are HUNDREDS of options for getting your PVP fix.

Warframe does not need forced PVP.  Really, the *only* reason I see for some people to argue that the game "needs" Stalker Mode is because they get a pleasent little fizzing sensation in their pants at the thought of being able to invade someone else's mission and shoot them in the head.  Does *everyone* want that?  No.  But many do.  I have no interest in interacting with those people.  And I won't.  Even if my only option is to find another game.  Nor do I really think that the devs will care if I leave - I'm one player out of 30 million registered accounts.  But the existence of a Stalker Mode in this game would ruin it for me.  If it goes live, and can't be avoided... I'll avoid it anyway, by leaving.

[Falconer777]

17 минут назад, Datam4ss сказал:

I have stated that PVE addicts are also messed up in real life, because face it, any form of game addiction is unhealthy for the mind and reprehensible. It just so happens that these addicts tend to have different kinds of character to each other and PVP addicts are indeed a bunch of toxic people.

Have you ever gamed with the hardcore raiders from WoW or Gild Wars 2? Or just with pve-addicts in any game? 
They are just as toxic. Even in Warframe, I came across the toxicity of players. 
In my opinion, everything is easier. There are well-educated people - there are poorly educated people. There are smart - there are stupid. There are people with normal nervous system - there are people with mental problems. There are game addicts in principle (regardless of the game mode) - and there are ordinary gamers, for whom the game is not the meaning of life, and the only possible way of self-assertion, self-realization and leisure.

 

 

[O2D3nTe]

Stalker mode isn't really a PvP mode though. If anything it is the same as the current Stalker but with a better AI (I still expect some people to be worse than AI). The players are still much more powerful with their frames and operator, and it's up to four players against a single Stalker. PvP usually imply an even battle ground, and should be a skill match up. Anyhow when the Stalker kills his target he leaves, it's not like it's an automatic failed mission or anything along those lines. You lose 1 of your plenty of free revives (that you never use anyway).

I've never played PvP in Warframe, but I like the idea of Stalker mode. I'd love to actually be afraid when the Stalker or other assassin show ups in my game.

The hate on PvP players seem strong coming from a few of you.

[Aramil999]

@Falconer777 Yeah, that's basicaly my point, good PvP system is endless endgame which can help the game live long.

The whole point of this thread is to talk and list Stalker Mode problems, which could help "fix" warframe PvP.

The point of this thread is NOT forcing any single one of you to accept forced PvP, stalker invasions etc.

Most popular online games are pvp one, LoL for example. Yes community there can be toxic but mostly not because they are mostly toxic players but because toxic players shout loudest so in vast playerbase we notice almost only them. 

So now that we have some good numers (stating that pvp games are most popular online games, this is fact) I think in my honest humble opinion that Stalker Mode implemented with all the points, restrictions and etc. that we all stated in above conversation could be good selling point of warframe in eyes of new players and old veterans who got bored with the game.

Yes, forced invasions can be very unhealthy for the community, yes locking gear, endgame items behind hard, competative pvp mode can simply lead to boosting, hacking etc. yes, all that can lead to some toxic players sensing fresh blood, BUT DE can minimalize all this outcomes with good solid games mode designe and attract tons of players.

It CAN be great for community, of course it can turn out just like conclave, I doubt anyone left the game because Conclave or Lunaro got added into it... 

Edited December 6, 2018 by Aramil999

[Nacond]

vor 46 Minuten schrieb EmberStar:

But the existence of a Stalker Mode in this game would ruin it for me.  If it goes live, and can't be avoided... I'll avoid it anyway, by leaving.

I would join you. After many (maybe too many) hours playing wf there might be a life after wf 🙂

[Aramil999]

1 minute ago, Nacond said:

I would join you. After many (maybe too many) hours playing wf there might be a life after wf 🙂

Well seeing how many ppl say that, we can say that DE Scott forced invasions are bad idea and will not be implemented.

Edited December 6, 2018 by Aramil999

[Falconer777]

@Aramil999 I totally agree with you.

It is just necessary to give an opportunity to categorical opponents of PvP to avoid a meeting with a player Stalker, in my opinion, and everything will be fine.

 

Edited December 6, 2018 by Falconer777

[EmberStar]

9 minutes ago, O2D3nTe said:

The hate on PvP players seem strong coming from a few of you.

I don't hate PVP players.  I hate *PVP.*  And for me, that is ANY mode where another player can attack me.  I don't do public teams for Radiation Sorties because of this.  The *chance* that I could be attacked, intentionally or not, destroys any desire I have to play in those missions.  On days with a Radiation hazard, I simply don't do Sorties.  For me, Stalker Mode is PVP because another *player* is controlling the Stalker.  And the fact that they *chose* to control the Stalker implies that they want to attack other players.

The best thing the Devs could do for Stalker Mode is to abandon it, and leave PVP to games that are better suited to it.

[EmberStar]

23 minutes ago, Falconer777 said:

Have you ever gamed with the hardcore raiders from WoW or Gild Wars 2? Or just with pve-addicts in any game?

No, I haven't done raids.  Nor do I hang around with "pve addicts."  I don't play games for competition against other players, and Raids are a kind of horrible passive-aggressive competition.  (Follow orders, know the rotations, you must do at least X DPS or you can * right off, who woke up the WELPS!)

[Falconer777]

1 минуту назад, EmberStar сказал:

No, I haven't done raids.  Nor do I hang around with "pve addicts."  I don't play games for competition against other players, and Raids are a kind of horrible passive-aggressive competition.  (Follow orders, know the rotations, you must do at least X DPS or you can * right off, who woke up the WELPS!)

Interesting point of view)
I have never seen anything competitive in raids ... the same Sorties into Warframe or dungeons in WoW are mini-raids.
Although no ... the only thing that can be competitive there is DPS)
The goal of the raid is to kill the bosses and get loot. For the minimum possible time. Do not beat other players.

[Aramil999]

26 minutes ago, EmberStar said:

I don't hate PVP players.  I hate *PVP.*  And for me, that is ANY mode where another player can attack me.  I don't do public teams for Radiation Sorties because of this.  The *chance* that I could be attacked, intentionally or not, destroys any desire I have to play in those missions.  On days with a Radiation hazard, I simply don't do Sorties.  For me, Stalker Mode is PVP because another *player* is controlling the Stalker.  And the fact that they *chose* to control the Stalker implies that they want to attack other players.

The best thing the Devs could do for Stalker Mode is to abandon it, and leave PVP to games that are better suited to it.

So basicaly you are saying that this hundreds of thousends maybe milions potential new players should choose other games? 

You see, most popular online games are pvp oriented, so that means there is a ton of potentail new players because as of now Warframe has no real pvp.

Sorry to disappoint you but DE will choose potential new players over opinion of old one especialy if it will have no impact on numbers, such as opt out invasions or specific location only invasions.

[Corvid]

28 minutes ago, EmberStar said:

On days with a Radiation hazard, I simply don't do Sorties.

What, not even solo?

If you want, I could run those missions with you. I'm extremely careful when it comes to friendly fire, and I take care not to use AOE abilities when allied irradiation is a possibility (and in the event that a mishap occurs, I use Vazarin, so getting downed is a non-issue).

[(XBOX)Cotton Tail]

Something occurs to me regarding Stalker selection.

1. If the mode is popular that would mean a lot of people wanting to play as Stalker. I feel this would lead to either a massive upsurge in Stalker attacks which could be seen as detrimental, or the need to implement some form of restriction, which, in turn would probably lead to dissatisfaction in the Stalker ranks potentially leading to giving up on the mode.
2. If the mode isn't popular why bother with it? Yes, one could argue that it might attract new players (I'm not entirely convinced of that argument and I'd like to see some statistics) but do we really want to encourage DE to build a pre-failed mode on the off chance it will attract more new players than, say, Railjack? If, as has been stated, Scott doesn't want an opt out because not enough people would play it, then surely that tells us that DE themselves don't have confidence in the mode.

Will there be a cost barrier to playing as Stalker? DE could implement a key mechanism with high entry level requirements (Needs Nitain, Kuva, Vitus Essence for example) but then you're segmenting the player base and excluding newer players. Make it too easy to craft and you might as well not bother.

To nail my colours to the mast by the way - I have no interest in or desire for this mode. I'm not against it for those that want it, but I would hope that there will be an opt out mechanism which should apply to all modes solo, friends, public, and if any one person has opted out the mission is not available to be invaded. 

 

[Corvid]

2 minutes ago, Aramil999 said:



Sorry to disappoint you but DE will choose potential new players over opinion of old one especialy if it will have no impact on numbers, such as opt out invasions or specific location only invasions.

And based on their actions over the past five years, it can be fairly conclusively stated that DE sees more potential new players joining due to PvE expansions than PvP. PvP additions have never lead to a spike in player counts like PvE ones have. No amount of citing an invisible PvP crowd that would supposedly flock to the game will change that.

[Gabbynaru]

27 minutes ago, Aramil999 said:

So basicaly you are saying that this hundreds of thousends maybe milions potential new players should choose other games? 

You see, most popular online games are pvp oriented, so that means there is a ton of potentail new players because as of now Warframe has no real pvp.

Sorry to disappoint you but DE will choose potential new players over opinion of old one especialy if it will have no impact on numbers, such as opt out invasions or specific location only invasions.

Where the flying Clem did you pull those numbers from?

Also, yeah, they should. Not all games need PvP, just like not all games need PvE. Want PvP? Rainbow Six Siege is there for you. Want PvE? Warframe welcomes you with open arms. You're not going around PvP-ony games' forums asking for PvE content, are you? So why are you asking for (forced) PvP in a PvE game? Is it really so hard to wrap your mind around the fact that people just do not want to be anywhere near PvP in this game? We're here for PvE and that's that.

And frankly, if your implication that only PvP games do well were true, then Warframe wouldn't be here anymore. Bu no, it is, it's doing better than ever, and it's still the 5th most played game on Steam. People still play PvE and enjoy it. You don't need pointless PvP to have an enjoyable experience.

Edited December 6, 2018 by Gabbynaru

[MiMiren]

On 2018-12-04 at 11:31 AM, Aramil999 said:

So we know Stalker Mode is coming

I don't know. How do you know its coming?

[Swordsman]

All supposition really until more concrete info / intent comes from DE.  For my part, I feel Stalker Mode could work if limited to certain locations in the way of Nightmare Mode or Alert missions.  Only on these particular points would you encounter the player controlled Stalker, in this way complaining about having PVP forced upon the player base is moot.  Should have decent rewards for Stalker and Tenno in order to draw them in. 

[Falconer777]

41 минуту назад, Gabbynaru сказал:

And frankly, if your implication that only PvP games do well were true, then Warframe wouldn't be here anymore. Bu no, it is, it's doing better than ever, and it's still the 5th most played game on Steam.

Do you know which games take the first four places? 🙂

567,633	839,853		PLAYERUNKNOWN'S BATTLEGROUNDS
461,650	626,386		Dota 2
252,893	463,505		Counter-Strike: Global Offensive
62,342	105,809		Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Siege
45,784	59,082		Warframe

This is the statistics for today. Quite clearly - we see that PvP games are more popular. 

And consequently, a little good PvP doesn't exactly will harm the Warframe, but it will be able to attract new players.

Цитата

So why are you asking for (forced) PvP in a PvE game?

We seem to have come to an agreement here that we are not talking about any "forced" mode. Only at will of the players.

41 минуту назад, Gabbynaru сказал:

People still play PvE and enjoy it. You don't need pointless PvP to have an enjoyable experience.

Do not speak for all players. For me and some of my friends, for example, the PvE experience in Warframe became meaningless. Everything is killed by one button, the mission is the same, neither the goal nor the interest is not. We stopped playing.
I personally follow the news and this forum, as I still see good potential in Warframe, because I really liked the game in the first few months, and since Railjack inspires me with hope. I’m wondering how Warframe will continue to develop, and when there will be interesting content for which I will return. Or will not))

Edited December 6, 2018 by Falconer777

[Gabbynaru]

7 minutes ago, Falconer777 said:

We seem to have come to an agreement here that we are not talking about any "forced" mode. Only at will of the players.

Look, if it's opt-in, then have all the stalking you want for all I care. Just stay as far away from me as possible. I have better uses for my time than to entertain the likely toxic, annoying and elitist PvP crowd.

8 minutes ago, Falconer777 said:

Do not speak for all players.

How many times in this thread have you (not you personally, but you as in the PvP defender squad) spoken for me? How many times have you assumed that if I get a taste of PvP, I will like it? How many times have you insulted me for finding competition pointless and unenjoyable? I think I have the right to pay you with the same coin of ignorance and assumption, don't I?

[Nacond]

A little pvp? There is already pvp in warframe... And I know 1(!) guy who sometimes plays pvp from 1300 or more hours playing wf... Or at least played... 

When I tried to play pvp in wf on my own I couldn't because there were not enough players... There might be a lot of people who enjoy pvp which is fine. But in my opinion lots of people play wf because of the pve or maybe the coop aspect. 

So in my opinion de should try to hold these people instead of hoping for some others to join and maybe go back to another pvp game soon... A separate mode might work but might be barely used like conclave or lunaro

[Dromeos-Prime]

25 minutes ago, Falconer777 said:

-snip-

And just as you say that PvE players shouldn't speak on behalf of all players, PvP advocates should honestly also stop bringing up the "invisible" majority of "potential" new PvP players.

After all where was the population spike when Conclave 2: Electric Boogaloo was released? Where was the insurmountable surge of new players when DE tried to hop on the coat tails of Rocket League? For as far as I'm aware Lunaro is even more of a barren wasteland than Conclave is. Where were was the overwhelming support for the PvP seasonal events? Thinking back to those times i remember seeing people actively not participating in Teshin's fetish for conflict and simply letting the timer tick down with neither PvP nor PvE players having a good time.

Edit: In summation PvP is a waste of company resources the has yet to  any sort of confidence in not even it's ability to attract new players, but they've also consistently failed at even attracting current users. How is such a mess of features not simply a waste of resources better spent elsewhere.

Edited December 6, 2018 by reptillicus

[Falconer777]

3 минуты назад, Gabbynaru сказал:

Look, if it's opt-in, then have all the stalking you want for all I care. Just stay as far away from me as possible. I have better uses for my time than to entertain the likely toxic, annoying and elitist PvP crowd.

How many times in this thread have you (not you personally, but you as in the PvP defender squad) spoken for me? How many times have you assumed that if I get a taste of PvP, I will like it? How many times have you insulted me for finding competition pointless and unenjoyable? I think I have the right to pay you with the same coin of ignorance and assumption, don't I?

As far as I can tell, PvP lovers are subject to biggest attacks on this forum.
I do not know about your discussions with them specifically.
In any case, these modes are separate (and will be separated). No one is going to turn Warframe into Counter Strike)) 
It's only about adding some modes for PvP fans. Nobody will suffer, on the contrary, the money for the DE will be more, the outflow of players will be less, respectively, there will be more resources to improve the game in all modes. 
Everyone will be fine)

[rand0mname]

52 минуты назад, MiMiren сказал:

I don't know. How do you know its coming?

Stalker Mode have been shown at Prime Time 214 and Tennocon 18. Rumors started.

I have been trying to find anything concrete about "Steve said no opt out" (as much as my lame search skills and my phone let me), so I can look at the context, but no luck.

So far, “no opt-out” is mentioned only by other players. None of the posts I found had a direct link to a Devstream, an interview, or Periscope or a twit. I can not watch everything now, nor do I want to. Can anyone provide a link, please?

This conversation starts to remind me about good old thread on a certain forum then a certain poster mentioned that a certain romance scene in ME1 has 2 variants depending on the choices player made. The one in their playthrough was different. More... action oriented. And so the hunt begun. 3 days of speedruns, choosing different conversation options, data-mining, measuring how long the scene lasted and comparing notes. Nothing have been found. In the end the rumor starter admitted that it could be "a very realistic dream". Good times.

[Falconer777]

9 минут назад, reptillicus сказал:

After all where was the population spike when Conclave 2: Electric Boogaloo was released? Where was the insurmountable surge of new players when DE tried to hop on the coat tails of Rocket League? For as far as I'm aware Lunaro is even more of a barren wasteland than Conclave is. Where were was the overwhelming support for the PvP seasonal events? Thinking back to those times i remember seeing people actively not participating in Teshin's fetish for conflict and simply letting the timer tick down with neither PvP nor PvE players having a good time.

Honestly, I don’t know where they were)
I have not played at that time.
But I saw old videos about the Dark Sectors mode - I liked it. 
The gameplay itself in my opinion was better than it is now in the Conclave. It is the gameplay, IMHO, prevents the Conclave from becoming popular. I wrote a little higher - this is a simulator jumping on steroids. And with the monstrous difference in skills - no one likes a long time to be just cannon fodder. Hmm ... by the way, maybe this is one of the reasons for the hatred of many PvE players in Warframe for PvP - it is the sad experience of the games in the Conclave)

In this topic, by the way, they offered some interesting options for PvP modes: in open worlds, something like WvW from Guild Warz 2, or in closed locations, but with limited warframe abilities, no bullet jumps, or just for different factions - Corps vs. Grineer . Of course, while retaining the Conclave for those who like it. Yes, there were still a lot of good ideas both in this topic and in dozens of others devoted to PvP.