Why Do People Need An Opt Out For Stalker Mode?

[LSG501]

1 minute ago, Makunogo said:

oh i phrased that wrong. i meant people complaining about player used stalkers being more competent then them thus hurting their fragile egos and starting a new set of hate threads. 

the question i want to know is, do people find the stalker abilities so hard to deal with that a person using them suddenly makes it a problem?  

the typical answer will most likely be no.

It's not just the stalker abilities that are the issue here, the AI for the stalker makes the abilities meaningless in most cases (it's usually dead within a few seconds at higher MR's) unless you're a newbie in all honesty.  The thing is that the primary type of player that is likely going to 'enjoy' being the stalker are the ones that live in conclave which brings up a bigger issue which I doubt DE will be able to fix. 

Have you tried doing conclave against a conclave 'lifer' when you NEVER do conclave.  Actually you only need to look at the youtube video earlier to see how the player was bouncing around like mad and as with PvP the connection to the host will have a HUGE impact on gameplay, not to mention most PvE weapons are not balanced for PvP playstyles.   PvP is incredibly bad in this game compared with games that focus purely on PvP like quake or unreal tournament for example. 

So explain to me how we're going to balance that side of the equation, especially in a public group.  You can't remove PvP experience from a player, you can't nerf the stalker as the players using stalker would moan.  If you start off with a weaker stalker and it struggles to win you'll likely get calls for nerfs to the warframe abilities or for removing the operator (we all know how well that works against the stalker) when fighting the player controlled stalker etc.   It will eventually boil down to stalker players moaning because they want to win easier versus players moaning because they want to win easier... so who do you cater for, the player, who in some cases may not even want to be fighting a player controlled stalker, or the person who is playing the stalker and trying to 'show how leet they are' against other players.

[Makunogo]

this is assuming that we can control the frequency of the spawning. which is very likely to not happen since as u say, can be exploited. most likely we will not be able to choose who we are "stalking" i couldnt resist lol

[(PSN)Lowk721]

4 minutes ago, Makunogo said:

the question i want to know is, do people find the stalker abilities so hard to deal with that a person using them suddenly makes it a problem? 

It not even a matter of hard. Annoying would be the right word. Its similar problem to troll frames except they'd be calling it a feature.

Depending on the Stalker he can can de-buff, ragdoll, or turn invisible. Shadow stalker is a little better since a lot of his attacks of telegraphed but I think he still has dispel to debuff you. I can already picture griefing people with those powers with little thought. Even without them being spammable.

I don't want to imagine what dedicated trolls can think of.

[Makunogo]

3 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

It's not just the stalker abilities that are the issue here, the AI for the stalker makes the abilities meaningless in most cases (it's usually dead within a few seconds at higher MR's) unless you're a newbie in all honesty.  The thing is that the primary type of player that is likely going to 'enjoy' being the stalker are the ones that live in conclave which brings up a bigger issue which I doubt DE will be able to fix. 

Have you tried doing conclave against a conclave 'lifer' when you NEVER do conclave.  Actually you only need to look at the youtube video earlier to see how the player was bouncing around like mad and as with PvP the connection to the host will have a HUGE impact on gameplay, not to mention most PvE weapons are not balanced for PvP playstyles.   PvP is incredibly bad in this game compared with games that focus purely on PvP like quake or unreal tournament for example. 

So explain to me how we're going to balance that side of the equation, especially in a public group.  You can't remove PvP experience from a player, you can't nerf the stalker as the players using stalker would moan.  If you start off with a weaker stalker and it struggles to win you'll likely get calls for nerfs to the warframe abilities or for removing the operator (we all know how well that works against the stalker) when fighting the player controlled stalker etc.   It will eventually boil down to stalker players moaning because they want to win easier versus players moaning because they want to win easier... so who do you cater for, the player, who in some cases may not even want to be fighting a player controlled stalker, or the person who is playing the stalker and trying to 'show how leet they are' against other players.

i hate pvp but I like this idea. so that may not be entirely accurate. 

if i was to get wrecked in pvp then that would mean i need to get better. we dont start off good at everything.

we cant discuss what we dont know. its what i keep saying. i try to discuss only what is reasonably plausible to know.

as also stated. compromise is almost impossible as there is always an extreme on both sides.

Edited December 12, 2018 by Makunogo

[UseNet]

Another thread that could have simply been a post in the active stalker threads.

[(PSN)lokaspoka]

12 minutes ago, (XB1)Thy Divinity said:

 

I think it's pretty sad when you want to force someone to do something just so you don't have to do it alone.  

 

ur asking why pvp is good in games

:Vs another player

Now why is it bad 

[(PSN)Ashagin]

All I know is I play warframe because it is a pve game and that's it.  I dont like pvp games.  I dont play call of duty nor battlefield.  I play single player games and warframe for coop much like I did with borderlands.  If people insist on invading my pve experience with forced pvp I just hope they enjoy when I abandon the mission as host everytime.  If you want to grieve me I will return the favor in kind.

[LSG501]

Just now, Makunogo said:

i hate pvp but I like this idea. so that may not be entirely accurate.

Yeah but how long will you like it for if you're not winning, or say if it only drops say relics or endo....there's only so many times most people will do something if they keep failing at it and in most cases that number is not exactly high, you only need to look at complaints over rng and drop rate on bp's for that.

[Makunogo]

1 minute ago, LSG501 said:

Yeah but how long will you like it for if you're not winning, or say if it only drops say relics or endo....there's only so many times most people will do something if they keep failing at it and in most cases that number is not exactly high, you only need to look at complaints over rng and drop rate on bp's for that.

i could care less if i was "winning" or not. if i wanna get rid of the stalker ill kill myself if hes trolling too much. problem solved.

stalker doesnt show up enough for it to be annoying. and people still get killed by AI stalker all the time. yet nobody is complaining about that.

Edited December 12, 2018 by Makunogo

[(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz]

1 minute ago, ThumpumGood said:

This! And why Im so sick of this doom and gloom.

No, you just want to kill other players, whether they're willing participants or not.  Every post you've had on this subject has shown your position on this matter.  Like I told the player above, you can't get people to PvP with you by choice so you go with force.

You even went as far as suggesting there is nothing wrong with interrupting a mission to troll other players by calling it "thinking outside the box".  You know what I don't see you or the others who are behind this idea advocating?  Conclave.  And we all know why don't we.  

Here's an idea: prove PvP will be a good idea with what we already have and I'll vouch for your idea myself.  Until then keep living in fantasy land my friend.

[DatDarkOne]

20 minutes ago, (XB1)Thy Divinity said:

Stop ice skating uphill

Hey, you stole my tagline.  Nice use of it though.  😄

19 minutes ago, Makunogo said:

i also hate nullifiers. but i aint complaining.

Nullifiers for bother me at all.  I actually like them.

19 minutes ago, Makunogo said:

there is also this vocal side of the community saying the content is too easy. herein lies the problem there is always gonna be an extreme on both sides. it's so hard to compromise lol.

Good luck with that.  I've been trying to bring forms of common sense into the forum topics for about 3 years now.  

19 minutes ago, Makunogo said:

doubt something like that would be spammable. also nullifiers cant stop an opticor one shotting stalker 😛 (or the handful of other weapons) 

lets be honest the moment stalker becomes vulnerable it is often killed on the spot

Now here is the interesting thing that you might be missing.  In a 4 vs 1, the Stalker whether player controlled or AI is already at a disadvantage.  This usually leads to him getting killed before he can even ramp up.  Now take that same scenario but make it a solo Tenno and things change up quite a bit.  

While I don't care for PvP, I can honestly say that if I was controlling Stalker in a 1 on 1 battle I feel that I would win more than 50% of the time.  This is taking into consideration what we've seen of the current mode and what I have seen first hand of his powers in solo battles.  Notice I said 1 vs 1 battle.  😄

 

edit: my dislike of PvP has nothing to do with challenge, but more from seeing and dealing with troll-like, griefer-wannabe, whinny players over the last 20 years.  

Edited December 12, 2018 by DatDarkOne

[LSG501]

1 minute ago, Makunogo said:

i could care less if i was "winning" or not. if i wanna get rid of the stalker ill kill myself if hes trolling too much. problem solved. 

stalker doesnt show up enough for it to be annoying. and people still get killed by AI stalker all the time. yet nobody is complaining about that.

You're assuming it's not going to have increased frequency when it's controlled by a player...

Most people die from the AI stalker due to levelling or being new, it's very rare a 'fully equipped' player loses to the AI stalker, even less so now we have operators. 

[ThumpumGood]

5 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

Yeah but how long will you like it for if you're not winning, or say if it only drops say relics or endo....there's only so many times most people will do something if they keep failing at it and in most cases that number is not exactly high, you only need to look at complaints over rng and drop rate on bp's for that.

So when there was an item(s) you wanted did you try before you quit? For a mod that only drops in Spy missions where you get all 3 data hacked, it took 27 runs and I would have kept going til I got it. YOU may give up, but not a lot of people do. Those that do give up, dont last long before they quit.

 

[(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)lokaspoka said:

ur asking why pvp is good in games

:Vs another player

Now why is it bad 

I asked why it was good in this game.  Straw man won't work here. 

3 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

Hey, you stole my tagline.  Nice use of it though.  😄

 

My apologies. 😰

[(PSN)Lowk721]

27 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Personally, I hate the predictably of the a.i. which is why I would welcome a player stalker. Not because I enjoy PvP. 

Which is nice until that player decides they are going to sit back and take pot shots while debuffing or ragdolling you every chance they get while you are busy trying to complete your mission. Then running before you can deal with them.

The catch the troll game could be fun. It could also be an annoying time waster when your just trying to level gear or farm resources.

EDIT The AI is predictable but its also aggressive so its always a fight. You'd need to put a time limit on the stalker to encourage a fight to keep stuff like that from happening. And even then they could still cause issues with the time allowed.

Edited December 12, 2018 by (PS4)Lowk721

[Makunogo]

2 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

You're assuming it's not going to have increased frequency when it's controlled by a player...

Most people die from the AI stalker due to levelling or being new, it's very rare a 'fully equipped' player loses to the AI stalker, even less so now we have operators. 

and when that player who would already get wrecked from stalker does die. the stalker goes away. 

i dont really think the frequency will increase that much. and lower level players are not bossing a ton either. plus our community is great not much solo action goes on from what ive seen.

as i said i can only assume base on what i already know. and what  i know is that stalker doesn't appear that often. so of course my reasoning is as such

[ThumpumGood]

10 minutes ago, (XB1)Thy Divinity said:

No, you just want to kill other players, whether they're willing participants or not.  Every post you've had on this subject has shown your position on this matter.  Like I told the player above, you can't get people to PvP with you by choice so you go with force.

You even went as far as suggesting there is nothing wrong with interrupting a mission to troll other players by calling it "thinking outside the box".  You know what I don't see you or the others who are behind this idea advocating?  Conclave.  And we all know why don't we.  

Here's an idea: prove PvP will be a good idea with what we already have and I'll vouch for your idea myself.  Until then keep living in fantasy land my friend.

Again... look at my conclave score. I dont PvP. Tried it, didnt like it. Mostly because of the many factors that keep it from being a level playing field outside of ability like PC build, location you are vs location of the server and the routing that takes... too much for me to be even slightly interested in PvP other than to see it first hand so I know what it's about.

[LSG501]

1 minute ago, ThumpumGood said:

So when there was an item(s) you wanted did you try before you quit? For a mod that only drops in Spy missions where you get all 3 data hacked, it took 27 runs and I would have kept going til I got it. YOU may give up, but not a lot of people do. Those that do give up, dont last long before they quit. 

 

I've never had that sort of level of bad RNG except on this damn floof I want to complete the set....  many other players have had worse though and then come on the forum and complain, so clearly there is a point where players will 'give up' trying to get things, it's often far sooner when you're loosing and/or getting poor rewards. 

You can try and take aim at me with your reply as much as you like but I do things because I 'enjoy them' not because I want to spend all day farming something. 

[DatDarkOne]

5 minutes ago, (XB1)Thy Divinity said:

My apologies. 😰

No worries. I steal good lines and memes from others all the time. hehe.  I'm just glad you use it very well. 😄 

Edited December 12, 2018 by DatDarkOne

[LSG501]

6 minutes ago, Makunogo said:

and when that player who would already get wrecked from stalker does die. the stalker goes away.  

i dont really think the frequency will increase that much. and lower level players are not bossing a ton either. plus our community is great not much solo action goes on from what ive seen. 

as i said i can only assume base on what i already know. and what  i know is that stalker doesn't appear that often. so of course my reasoning is as such

I've seen plenty of times where other players are self centred, be it from not reviving someone if they go down, leeching on PoE, to running away if the stalker/syndicate squad turns up.

The frequency in which the AI stalker appears is linked to your marks anyway so if you've not fought a planet boss recently you likely don't have any marks so the frequency will drop and be linked to if other players have a mark.

 

4 minutes ago, ThumpumGood said:

Again... look at my conclave score. I dont PvP. Tried it, didnt like it. Mostly because of the many factors that keep it from being a level playing field outside of ability like PC build, location you are vs location of the server and the routing that takes... too much for me to be even slightly interested in PvP other than to see it first hand so I know what it's about. 

You know these same issues will be there with the player controlled stalker right... in theory it might even be worse because the host PC also needs to cope with PvE on top of the PvP for the stalker..

Edited December 12, 2018 by LSG501

[DatDarkOne]

17 minutes ago, Makunogo said:

plus our community is great not much solo action goes on from what ive seen.

I would just like to point out the fallacy in this statement.  If players are using solo mode, then you wouldn't see them in your game in the first place.  😄 

Edited December 12, 2018 by DatDarkOne
spelling

[ThumpumGood]

5 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

I've never had that sort of level of bad RNG except on this damn floof I want to complete the set....  many other players have had worse though and then come on the forum and complain, so clearly there is a point where players will 'give up' trying to get things, it's often far sooner when you're loosing and/or getting poor rewards. 

You can try and take aim at me with your reply as much as you like but I do things because I 'enjoy them' not because I want to spend all day farming something. 

They complain in the forum but they're still trying to get that. Clannie took 33 runs in fissure and STILL hasnt got the frame pc he was looking for and no time soon will he be spending plat. His comment was "Time to farm more traces." So again, while they complain about drop rates here in the forum, after the post, they are back in game farming up that item. And probably with success cuz the dont keep coming back to that thread to continue the complaint. Either that or they swap spare parts for plat to buy it. Either way this isnt part of the OMG STALKER MODE! THE GAME IS OVER! so this part is done for me.

[ThumpumGood]

Not really. Those threads are about OMG! STALKER MODE! THE GAME IS DOOMED. This one is about it going to happen and helping work out some of the kinks there will most likely be. I'll probably try it a couple of times. Not gonna lie. But Im not a PvPer so that's not gonna be a thing for me. And I suggested looser drop tables because they are forcing people into a PvP mode. Nearly every MMO has a PvP  Mode. WoW, ESO, DDO, NWO, LotRO, all of the shooters... There are very few that dont have some sort of PvP mode. Go back to the top and read the list. Im sure there are other legitimate things that could be added to make it more palatable.

[UseNet]

2 minutes ago, ThumpumGood said:

Not really. Those threads are about OMG! STALKER MODE! THE GAME IS DOOMED. This one is about it going to happen and helping work out some of the kinks there will most likely be. I'll probably try it a couple of times. Not gonna lie. But Im not a PvPer so that's not gonna be a thing for me. And I suggested looser drop tables because they are forcing people into a PvP mode. Nearly every MMO has a PvP  Mode. WoW, ESO, DDO, NWO, LotRO, all of the shooters... There are very few that dont have some sort of PvP mode. Go back to the top and read the list. Im sure there are other legitimate things that could be added to make it more palatable.

Pretty sure if you posted this in the other stalker idea threads, it might actually get the attention you like. I expect this thread will be bumped down without many/any replies. Choice is yours though. /shrug

[(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz]

2 minutes ago, ThumpumGood said:

Again... look at my conclave score. I dont PvP. Tried it, didnt like it. Mostly because of the many factors that keep it from being a level playing field outside of ability like PC build, location you are vs location of the server and the routing that takes... too much for me to be even slightly interested in PvP other than to see it first hand so I know what it's about.

Which tells me that you really have no clue what you are asking for at the most basic level.  As someone who primarily learned to play this game using Limbo, the greatest lesson I learned is to avoid interfering in the experiences of others in this game.  It's a big no no.

The most fascinating thing about this whole topic is that the few of you that want this are not taking a look at the bigger picture.  From trolling, to boosting/cheating, to griefing, to just flat out wasting time there are a lot of ways this goes wrong.  

Nobody has even mentioned the effect it will have overall on the playerbase.  It's poorly thought out and unpopular ideas like these that can turn a community toxic af.  I rather enjoy the community we have now, even with a very few bad apples.

I'll leave you with this: if this concept is soooo brilliant, why is there so much pushback against it?