(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 6 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said: Ok, ThumpumGood, it occurs to me (based on your posts) that you may not be in possession of all the facts about this mode. Please go and review the videos about it, it's not a mode where it randomly selects a squad and makes one player into the Stalker for that mission. It's an invasion system more akin to Dark Souls, where the player Stalker has his own separate lobby and choose targets to attack. Are you serious? Are you seriously referencing a video of a development build from 2017 as if it is absolute fact that it will be the same when it actually released, presumably in 2019, while accusing somebody else of not having the facts about this mode? Come on. Nobody has all the facts about this mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)OriginalEquinox Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 (edited) Remember that game called EVOLVE where a player gets to be the monster while the rest are hunters and they play a game of cat and mouse till one faction wins? Stalker mode would be fun like that Basically we all spawn in a decent sized map as our Operators and one person spawns on the other end as the Stalker. The operators goal is to make it to safety with minimal void powers (similar to TWW) while the Stalker have to stop them, doesn't have to get violent, simply catching a Operator will make them kneel similar to a mr test or something and the camera will switch over to another players view for the duration of the match. Edited December 12, 2018 by (PS4)Equinox21697 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BornWithTeeth Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 5 minutes ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said: Are you serious? Are you seriously referencing a video of a development build from 2017 as if it is absolute fact that it will be the same when it actually released, presumably in 2019, while accusing somebody else of not having the facts about this mode? Come on. Nobody has all the facts about this mode. The dude was operating on the assumption that Stalker mode worked by selecting an existing squad and randomly making one person the Stalker, while the way it actually works is more like en external invasion system. I don't know why you're going into histrionics about me giving him more information. It's very strange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)horridhal Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 41 minutes ago, S.Dust said: what is so bad about it People don’t want to be forced to play PvP in what is, primarily, a PvE co-op game. Now you’re hip to the crux of the complaint and it is perfectly valid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DatDarkOne Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 WHY does this topic keep coming up!!! I swear it's like some of you topic creators either don't have a search button or just aren't listening to the reasons that are given. Here's a helpful hint for next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firetempest Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 1. Player who is stalker only has stats and skills of NPC stalker 2. Stalker is treated as a separate faction so devs can easily make objective targets friendly to stalker player. 3. Players can opt-out from encountering player stalkers in some fashion. 4. People on the forums hate anything related to pvp in any capacity. 5. There are a lot of stalker topics. 6. That's all we know of it's current incarnation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThumpumGood Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 10 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said: Ok, ThumpumGood, it occurs to me (based on your posts) that you may not be in possession of all the facts about this mode. Please go and review the videos about it, it's not a mode where it randomly selects a squad and makes one player into the Stalker for that mission. It's an invasion system more akin to Dark Souls, where the player Stalker has his own separate lobby and choose targets to attack. You get to choose to be stalker? How are you able to become stalker? And again... what stops you from running away? Standing there and giving up the freebies? Do the targets get the same warning? What happens if there is more than one stalker? Dont you fall under the rules that you can only stalk the people who have killed X boss? Does your strength shift to match the player? I can still see the fun here. I dont PvP so I would run up, appear, then run away. Totally mess them up. Then at some point, let them catch me and kill me. If it is something you can select. And if you can only attack people who are marked, then there's too much fear it would be abused. If you can kill the boss that got you marked, then you can kill the stalker. Even if it's player controlled. It appears to have the same set up as the regular stalker and I would be interested in seeing how a 25k radiation proc would effect it. The only thing that concerns me it the ability for the player stalker to abort mission. You become stalker you either succeed or fail. You shouldnt get the option to wimp out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makunogo Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 (edited) 39 minutes ago, LSG501 said: In your situation majority rules would apply, 3 vs 1. The issue with the player stalker is that if treated exactly like a stalker (and based on videos it looks like this is the case) when it arrives it will be able to attack all players so if the human controlled stalker wishes they could troll them for the entire mission (there is no timer on the stalker iirc) by just not attacking the intended target, in your above scenario that would be someone who does not want to play against a human stalker. So that one person who does want to fight the human stalker has in essence ruined a mission for someone who does not want to fight it. Depending on the mission type this could also drag out a mission considerably, especially if the trolling is being done by someone who actually enjoys PvP and as such has had a lot of experience. Against a the normal AI stalker a player can choose to 'run away' if they're not the target but against a human stalker you don't have that option as they don't have code focusing you on the intended target. As such the safest/fairest course of action is to not have a player controlled stalker spawn in unless all 4 players have it enabled. this implies there is a squad of incompetent players tho. most people can handle stalker alone a full group will totally manhandle it. that is not fair to the person who wants to experience the stalker player mode tho. that is only catering to one side. so its not actually fair. which is why an opt out option can be detrimental and probably why DE just chose (at least in their response) to not be able to opt out. which is equally as unfair but its a lot less hassle to deal with on their part then unfortunately trying to cater to every individual (which is frankly impossible) Edited December 12, 2018 by Makunogo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DatDarkOne Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 2 minutes ago, Makunogo said: this implies there is a squad of incompetent players tho. Is this really so hard to visualize? 😄 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThumpumGood Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 Oh and since this is bug frame and host migration has become a thing... I can see it still being a thing in this somehow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Shelneroth Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 28 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said: Designing it to work that way in the first place shows a lack of foresight which is analogous to incompetence. We shall see if the mode's implementation fixes that. This is ofcourse just speculation but I don't think Stalker Mode was really designed to work that way. I get the impression they had a go at seeing if Stalker could be made player controlled and gave it a run out. Things like destroying objectives seemed to be an effect of two peices of code never intended to interact being allowed to do so. With it proving succesful DE thought players might be intrested and that it was something they could do. I think it is reasonable to assume such niggles would be smoothed out in a released version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rand0mname Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 (edited) 6 минут назад, Makunogo сказал: most people can handle stalker alone a full group will totally manhandle it Oh my... First, Tenno “destroy his way of life”. Then, they just refuse to pay for their crimes. Then, they drive him to alliance with an enemy. Then, he is regularly beaten by a kid before he can make one step. And now this? Then again, my Helios killed him, my Kubrow eaten him... Yeh. Edited December 12, 2018 by rand0mname Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makunogo Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 Just now, rand0mname said: Oh my... First, Tenno “destroy his way of life”. Then, they just refuse to pay for their crimes. Then, they drive him to alliance with an enemy. Then, he is regularly beaten by a kid before he can make one step. And now this? honestly no idea what you are talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makunogo Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, (PS4)Shelneroth said: This is ofcourse just speculation but I don't think Stalker Mode was really designed to work that way. I get the impression they had a go at seeing if Stalker could be made player controlled and gave it a run out. Things like destroying objectives seemed to be an effect of two peices of code never intended to interact being allowed to do so. With it proving succesful DE thought players might be intrested and that it was something they could do. I think it is reasonable to assume such niggles would be smoothed out in a released version. exactly this. the mode isn't even in the works yet and yet we seem to have people with full fledged mandates on how this mode works. kind of baffles me. i can only defend as much as i know. the rest is pure speculation. not even sure why im even posting here anymore lol Edited December 12, 2018 by Makunogo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rand0mname Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 1 минуту назад, Makunogo сказал: honestly no idea what you are talking about. Second language, some things can acquire a second layer then hastily translated, ignore me, please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BornWithTeeth Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 1 minute ago, Makunogo said: exactly this. the mode isn't even in the works yet and yet we seem to have people with full fledged mandates on how this mode works. kind of baffles me. i can only defend as much as i know. the rest is pure speculation. not even sure why im even posting here anymore lol What that means is that you are not defending what you know. You are defending what you assume the finished result will be, and you are doing so by effectively saying "DE will fix all the problems that exist in the trial mode, the problems that they themselves created by programming the mode that way." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThumpumGood Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 (edited) Questions I havent seen(and I havent read EVERY thread so...) How do you get to be the stalker? Who can he select as a target? Does his level change based on the level of boss the target killed? Does the player get the same stalker warning? Is the player stalker any more resistant to procs? Can we get rid of the player stalker's ability to abort mission? Does the loot table change if the player stalker decides to become santa and just let people kill him for the loot? Is the Player stalker's mission timed? (can that be a thing?) Could/should there be an MR restriction on who the player stalker can select? Since the player Stalker is more unpredictable and therefore a little more slippery, will the loot tables be loosened up? How long is the event? Is it going to be a permanent thing or seasonal? What qualifies you to become the stalker? These questions should and need to be answered before everyone goes all OMG! IT'S THE END OF WARFRAME! Edited December 12, 2018 by ThumpumGood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OniDax Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 Players want control of their gameplay experience. The moment you force other players into someone's game, you violate that. I don't want to be playing solo and another player shows up to interrupt or ruin my experience. I don't want to be playing with friends and another player shows up to interrupt or ruin my experience. I don't want to be playing in a public squad and another player shows up to interrupt or ruin the experience. Understand now? If this Stalker will be so useless as you presume, then why the fight to force all players to have to deal with this system? Why is that necessary for you? Why do you need other players to always be opted-in? Why does it matter to you that some players want to opt-out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makunogo Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said: What that means is that you are not defending what you know. You are defending what you assume the finished result will be, and you are doing so by effectively saying "DE will fix all the problems that exist in the trial mode, the problems that they themselves created by programming the mode that way." no its the opposite i am defending what i can. we dont know what they are doing so we can't fully discuss on it obviously. most of what's been said is entirely speculation. my stance is split in regards to the posters topic. i dont like pvp so perhaps an opt out would be okay... but i'm not really bothered (enough) by the idea of this stalker thing as its not super detrimental to my gameplay. (as i hardly ever have a stalker encounter* i've also brainstormed in some earlier posts the possible repercussions of the option to opt in/opt out. which does not directly involve stalker mode. however it is something that would affect it. Edit: Post was edited lol Edited December 12, 2018 by Makunogo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThumpumGood Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 25 minutes ago, Firetempest said: 1. Player who is stalker only has stats and skills of NPC stalker 2. Stalker is treated as a separate faction so devs can easily make objective targets friendly to stalker player. 3. Players can opt-out from encountering player stalkers in some fashion. 4. People on the forums hate anything related to pvp in any capacity. 5. There are a lot of stalker topics. 6. That's all we know of it's current incarnation. The next block of text I posted in the doom and gloom mega thread, Why? Because people jump straight to the end of the world scenario before knowing the facts. " How do you get to be the stalker? Who can he select as a target? Does his level change based on the level of boss the target killed? Does the player get the same stalker warning? Is the player stalker any more resistant to procs? Can we get rid of the player stalker's ability to abort mission? Does the loot table change if the player stalker decides to become santa and just let people kill him for the loot? Is the Player stalker's mission timed? (can that be a thing?) Could/should there be an MR restriction on who the player stalker can select? Since the player Stalker is more unpredictable and therefore a little more slippery, will the loot tables be loosened up? How long is the event? Is it going to be a permanent thing or seasonal? What qualifies you to become the stalker? These questions should and need to be answered before everyone goes all OMG! IT'S THE END OF WARFRAME!" And I havent seen an answer to any of it. The only downside I see to player stalker is that they can abort mission if they;re losing. I want to see that removed. If you choose to play the stalker, you win or you lose. You dont get to flee. NPC stalker doesnt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BornWithTeeth Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 Just now, Makunogo said: no its the opposite i am defending what i can. we dont know what they are doing so we cant discuss on it obviously. most of whats been said is entirely speculation Ok, that's fair. However... These things are not speculation. - Stalker mode hides the identity of the player Stalking, while not doing the same for their target. - On at least one occasion, the trial mode was used to search for specific targets by name. - The trial mode allowed the Stalker to attack mission objectives and troll missions, and that's something which almost everyone who has tried the mode has done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Lowk721 Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 I barely like having to put up with AI stalker interrupting me and wasting my time. That's only mitigated some by him having a predictable attack pattern making him eaaier to shoo away. The first few time were fun. Now he's just annoying. The last thing I want is an unpredictable competent player coming in and trying to find away to piss me off with some cheese method you just know someone is going to figure out. Like this is literally the troll loki/limbo problem that pretty much everyone hates but encouraged instead of unwanted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makunogo Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said: Ok, that's fair. However... These things are not speculation. - Stalker mode hides the identity of the player Stalking, while not doing the same for their target. - On at least one occasion, the trial mode was used to search for specific targets by name. - The trial mode allowed the Stalker to attack mission objectives and troll missions, and that's something which almost everyone who has tried the mode has done. i believe someone had just stated teh ability to hit mission objectives was a bug. and DE was the ones testing stalker so of course they can go find any player they wanted. they would still need to have a stalker mark on them to even spawn. and i dont think this is much of a problem unless you treated someone like Arse in which case then you kind of deserve it. Edited December 12, 2018 by Makunogo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaemyerelis Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 Another one of these threads eh? How about we talk about other things? Like that mesa prime booty, oh my! 😳😏 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makunogo Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 1 minute ago, (PS4)Lowk721 said: I barely like having to put up with AI stalker interrupting me and wasting my time. That's only mitigated some by him having a predictable attack pattern making him eaaier to shoo away. The first few time were fun. Now he's just annoying. The last thing I want is an unpredictable competent player coming in and trying to find away to piss me off with some cheese method you just know someone is going to figure out. Like this is literally the troll loki/limbo problem that pretty much everyone hates but encouraged instead of unwanted. we can safely assume that they will try to mitigate such problems. while at the same time not making the stalker gameplay not completly trash. again this will be a lot easier to do when the actual content is in game tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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