Why PVP would benefit DE (not a rework conclave post)

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

Here's the humorous frustration for me anyways...Everyone says NO to PVP...and then someone one from PVE (Me) says..."Hey maybe PVP should try something PVE players might enjoy." Try weird playlists instead of the tired old death match PVP you can find in any game that Warframe PVE players hate with a passion...

 

They could try death race chase PVP like Indiana Jones, side by side team horde modes to see who can clear the most the fastest...Jets Vs Motorcycles from GTA only using K-Drives and Darygns....but guess who says NO all the time... PVP conclave players who want it their way all the time even though this game caters to PVE players who make up the largest user base, you'd think DE might want to cater to them a little so Conclave isn't such a dead fish...So good luck....

Edited January 11, 2019 by (PS4)FriendSharkey

[S.Dust]

2 minutes ago, MasterBurik said:

Assuming that is a "doesn't" typo, yes?

 

What makes you think that some PR is all that stands in the way of the Conclave becoming popular? Do you think the Quick Steel and Hearts & Arrows events weren't adequate enough PR attempts to draw players to the Conclave?

 

This would be disingenuous to viewers, and border on false advertising (without continuous disclaimers).

thank you for pointing out pointing out the typos and also those events being honest made conclave more annoying to play than playing it normally.

[(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz]

Another day another one of these.  I'll give you credit though, at least you want to improve what's already there instead of that BR nonsense we've seen of late.

 

The reason people aren't streaming Conclave is more than likely that they do not wish to.  You are literally attempting to cross the street during a parade with these requests to dedicate resources to improve popularity on an unpopular aspect of the game.

 

But go ahead, knock yourself out.

Edited January 11, 2019 by (XB1)Thy Divinity

[S.Dust]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)FriendSharkey said:

Here's the humorous frustration for me anyways...Everyone says NO to PVP...and then someone one from PVE (Me) says..."Hey maybe PVP should try something PVE players might enjoy." Try weird playlists instead of the tired old death match PVP you can find in any game that Warframe PVE players hate with a passion...

 

They could try death race chase PVP like Indiana Jones, side by side team horde modes to see who can clear the most the fastest...Jets Vs Motorcycles from GTA only using K-Drives and Darygns....but guess who says NO all the time... PVP conclave players who want it their way all the time even though this game caters to PVE players who make up the largest user base, you'd think DE might want to cater to them a little so Conclave isn't such a dead fish...So good luck....

Actual races would be cool but for now a full blown project is something im trying to avoid asking for.

[stormy505]

4 minutes ago, S.Dust said:

I think doing balance changes off the bat would be a problem because so many people are against having the devs spend time on that which is why I felt it was best to start with streamers and have them set rules if people want to be invited to join. Like a streamer could say excal only and only the braton m1 with a regular lex (using these as examples because they can be gotten with credits only).

the main issue here is that streamers aren't a resource that de directly controls, and warframe would be trying to compete with other Great Pvp games on the market right now. like imo things that make warframe great just don't work in a pvp setting ie fast paced movement, power fantasy, op abilitys that would never fly in a pvp setting. also to get people to even THINK about the idea of playing pvp we need better servers, but if you're struggling to justify the cost of even working on basic pvp issues, how the #*!% are you going to justify the cost of dedicated servers when even pve can't. also unless De did a stupid amount of time on pvp i would always play ow or fortnite over it, (depending on what pvp it goes for) and i really don't think DE can compete with ether.

[Otaiken]

You can encourage streamers to play conclave but that doesn't mean people would watch it.

Streamers still mainly play content they know people will watch and if conclave was such content they would be streaming it already.

I think even Lunaro would be more fun to watch than conclave and that mode is even deader than conclave.

How would you encourage streamers to play conclave anyway? Bribe them? "Hey everybody, come watch me play this mode they had to pay me to even touch!"

Edited January 11, 2019 by LocoWithGun

[S.Dust]

Just now, LocoWithGun said:

You can encourage streamers to play conclave but that doesn't mean people would watch it.

Streamers still mainly play content they know people will watch and if conclave was such content they would be streaming it already.

I think even Lunaro would be more fun to watch than conclave and that mode is even deader than conclave.

How would you encourage streamers to paly conclave anyway? Bribe them? "Hey everybody, come watch me play this mode they had to pay me to even touch!"

They would probably watch more than they do now like I said look at what the top watched games have in common. Also streamers who play warframe and do content "they know people will watch" are not exactly rolling in viewers often. Also lunaro is part of conclave or at least I thought it was. Also I don't think most warframe partners would mind trying it out if DE shared the end goal with them they wouldn't need to pay them, plus again its not like people enjoying watching others play warframe they are more so there for the streamer and the conversation but with pvp game more is going on cooler things are happening.

[----Legacy----]

3 minutes ago, stormy505 said:

to get people to even THINK about the idea of playing pvp we need better servers,

Warframe offers players the possibility of hosting our own servers, which has some players hosting theirs at 120Hz (for instance, Overwatch ones run at 60Hz) with really high internet speed, providing smooth experiences even for players from other zones (for instance, i'm a south american player living in the Center-South of Chile and still manage to have a smooth experience in NA servers).

[khazlol]

i think parkour made the learning curve to big for most mortal men.

 

[S.Dust]

Just now, khazlol said:

i think parkour made the learning curve to big for most mortal men.

 

Then I have to ask why didn't fortnites building do the same thing? Exactly it's a learning curve but it can be learned.

[Otaiken]

6 minutes ago, S.Dust said:

They would probably watch more than they do now like I said look at what the top watched games have in common. Also streamers who play warframe and do content "they know people will watch" are not exactly rolling in viewers often. Also lunaro is part of conclave or at least I thought it was. Also I don't think most warframe partners would mind trying it out if DE shared the end goal with them they wouldn't need to pay them, plus again its not like people enjoying watching others play warframe they are more so there for the streamer and the conversation but with pvp game more is going on cooler things are happening.

Most watched games are PvP hence every PvP game will get good views. Is that really your argument?

[S.Dust]

1 minute ago, LocoWithGun said:

Most watched games are PvP hence every PvP game will get good views. Is that really your argument?

I'm saying it would bring a new set of viewers not saying every streamer needs to convert to a conclave player.

[Remy_Lacroix]

Working on conclave would be a good goal that rewards DE in the long term since it offers endless replayability with low resource investment, giving players something to do during the so-called "content droughts" that arise a couple of weeks after new content is released since developing new pve content takes way much more time than that required by players to burn through it while it also would open DE to a broader audience.

Also, the pve gameplay displayed by the current content creators (youtube and twitch partners) is really boring to watch, it makes warframe look as if the ninja aspect used to advertise the game (ninjas play free) is something that ended up being lost through warframe's evolution and that only a few players manage to keep alive (around the 1% of the playerbase, it should be easy to imply which one i'm talking about)

[ReaverKane]

I agree with you that DE should invest in PVP. For one it would cover some of the end-game holes by providing a content stream that is both infinite and infinitely challenging (because it's vs humans not AI).

The thing is, it requires a considerable time and financial investment from DE. For starters, they need to get some DE-owned dedicated servers, they don't need all of the server structure to be DE owned, but some should. Also they should probably work out a system where people can host on actual dedicated servers, instead of on a virtual server running on their PC (just like Battlefield and other games do).

Also Conclave needs a lobby where people can pick and join specific servers, unlike the "RNG" matchmaking ones we have now. DE does love their RNG.

If they just "ask" streamers to play conclave, that won't do anything, last time i tried playing, i couldn't find opponents, so good luck making a stream around that. I saw a youtube from one partner or other recently with some Lunaro footage, he was alone in there.

 

The problem with PvP is that people don't play it. And they're not doing anything to turn that around, or make it easier to play. Last time i played some pvp with decent queues was in 2017 around this time of the year, but it was "popular" because they had the "Snowdown Showdown" PvP event in Tennobaum, which got people into PvP, at least briefely.

The "Stalker" Invasions that were mentioned by Scott (i think it was) on TacticalPotato's stream. Are also a semi-PVP mode that could bring some more fun, and less aversion to PvP in the game.

Rail Wars would also be a good way to return some end-game "PVP" to the game.

Some other ingame incentives like glyphs, emblems or Sigils that "mutate" with your PvP "rank" would also be awesome. In all honesty, all they need to improve conclave and PvP in Warframe, is do anything.

1 hour ago, Firetempest said:

This is two years old.

To waste time, money, resources you need interest. Interest needs content. Catch 22 and they were already burned by lunaro.

According to that people play less in the Dojo than PvP by a factor of 10... And yet they added a ton of resources and the Featured dojos feature...

Edited January 11, 2019 by ReaverKane

[khazlol]

Just now, S.Dust said:

Then I have to ask why didn't fortnites building do the same thing? Exactly it's a learning curve but it can be learned.

Warframes move a hell of a lot faster than fornite dudes

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

36 minutes ago, S.Dust said:

I think doing balance changes off the bat would be a problem because so many people are against having the devs spend time on that which is why I felt it was best to start with streamers and have them set rules if people want to be invited to join. Like a streamer could say excal only and only the braton m1 with a regular lex (using these as examples because they can be gotten with credits only).

>trusting streamers to be in charge of balance.

 

What could go wrong? They aren't developers.

[Otaiken]

6 minutes ago, ReaverKane said:

According to that people play less in the Dojo than PvP by a factor of 10... And yet they added a ton of resources and the Featured dojos feature...

The "gameplay" of dojo is building it not sitting in it. And plenty of people spent a lot of time (and possibly plat, hint hint) on building a dojo.

Edited January 11, 2019 by LocoWithGun

[ReaverKane]

1 minute ago, LocoWithGun said:

The "gameplay" of dojo is building it not sitting in it. And plenty of people spent a lot of time (and possibly plat, hint hint) on building a dojo.

You realize that decorating the dojo, especially to the degree that those featured ones do, involves more time than any PvP match, right? And yet, 1/10.

[(XBOX)The Neko Otaku]

Go play something that has a pvp mode, waste of time to force a game and player base to have pvp in warframe, if pvp is dead in this game it means we don't want it and want it to die.

[Otaiken]

9 minutes ago, ReaverKane said:

You realize that decorating the dojo, especially to the degree that those featured ones do, involves more time than any PvP match, right? And yet, 1/10.

Yeah but you do it once and then you're mostly done. Repetition of small amounts over time adds up is that a hard concept to grasp?

Cipher is the most built BP of 2018 for example.

Edited January 11, 2019 by LocoWithGun

[ReaverKane]

1 minute ago, (XB1)The Neko Otaku said:

Go play something that has a pvp mode, waste of time to force a game and player base to have pvp in warframe, if pvp is dead in this game it means we don't want it and want it to die.

Not really... I want it, don't want it to die, but don't play it because servers suck, and its impossible to get people playing. And like me there's a lot of people that think the same.

 

[Otaiken]

2 minutes ago, ReaverKane said:

Not really... I want it, don't want it to die, but don't play it because servers suck, and its impossible to get people playing. And like me there's a lot of people that think the same.

 

Here's a gameplay design point against PvP. Warframe is really big on power fantasy. Power fantasy and PvP... don't mix all that well. As such you need to strip significant amount of power from PvP and in doing so you strip the WF from the game mode.

Edited January 11, 2019 by LocoWithGun

[Stormdragon]

7 minutes ago, (XB1)The Neko Otaku said:

Go play something that has a pvp mode

Warframe already has a pvp mode, so here i am. Don't tell me, nor others to play or support something else based on your opinions.

Quote

waste of time to force a game and player base to have pvp in warframe

Pvp doesn't affect progression in any way, so you're not "forced" to play it.

Quote

if pvp is dead in this game it means we don't want it and want it to die.

Speak for yourself, i enjoy warframe's pvp and would love it if DE advertised it and revitalized it.

Edited January 11, 2019 by Stormdragon

[shut]

1 hour ago, S.Dust said:

I literally never said to rework conclave in this post I said encourage partners to play it more

You need to understand-- PVP isn't considered unfun because partners don't play it. Partners don't play PVP because it's considered unfun.

If you want to make WF's PVP more popular, simply encouraging people to play it won't help. You need to make it actually ENJOYABLE, and for that, a rework from the ground-up is needed. PVP in its current state is simply more frustrating than enjoyable for the vast majority of players for a wide variety of reasons.

Edited January 11, 2019 by SortaRandom

[shut]

- deleted double post -

Edited January 11, 2019 by SortaRandom