Nyx and Titania's Revisit: Fresh Kit, Fresh Problems (with ignored old ones)

[ChromeKat]

NOTE: This thread is mainly pointing out the execution flaws and some minor suggestions. This is not a full on kit overhaul suggestion.

Nyx and Titania have been infamous for being the least popular frames for years now. By now, everybody knows that the 2 of them have been eyeing for the "Worst Female Warframe" category with Vauban and Wukong in the male category. It's also very obvious why the 2 of them are concurrently still known as the worst warframes even when they have been given some love by DE. The answer is simple: The Revisits were not enough!

Nyx's Problems:

We will go to Nyx 1st since she is one of the oldest frames, existing since the beta. Nyx has the interesting concept of being a Psychic themed frame, but her execution is poor due to enemy AI being dumb as usual, CC being less prevalent in the current content with ESO and profit takers, and her abilities being an actual headache to use.

Mind Control:

• The damage buff is not enough: Mind Control right now averages at around 400%-1000% bonus damage with a good weapon, but once again enemy scaling dictates that health outscales damage so the multiplier is still not enough to warrant Mind Control to be useful aside from being a meat-sponge. Mind Control needs a higher damage multiplier buff, and Mind Freak is not an excuse to make Mind Control good. Mind Freak needs to be changed to be another augment instead of being a band-aid buff for a mod slot.
• It does not synergise well with Psychic Bolts: This is more of due to unpredictable AI sometimes not targetting debuffed enemies, and running off to shoot a heavily armored/shielded unit. Sometimes, this works well in tandem but it usually doesn't due to the AI being slow and randomly targetting whichever unit shoots them, regardless of debuffed or not.

Psychic Bolts: Psychic Bolts did receive a nice buff to be a utility armor/shield/defense reduction ability than a mediocre damage dealing one. However, it is also not with its drawbacks.

• Charge to recast is not fun. Psychic Bolts was the stepping stone for Nyx to be of another use besides CC-ing generic AI, and she had potential to be another debuffer warframe capable of removing defenses and what happened?? We got a good ability on paper but clunky to use on execution. You have to kill all 6 random units your bolts marked or you have to hold 2 for 1-2s to reset it. Holding 2 to reset killed this ability. Many players are put-off by how slow paced the charge time is when they can use a Saryn/Ash or even a gun to strip armor than wait another 2s just to refresh the targets not to mention the bolts travel randomly so it is hard to detect which enemy got debuffed.
• Bolts' Debuff Green FX should be customizable. This is more of a customization issue. Right now, Psychic bolts mark debuffed enemies with just a green tinge, which is hard to spot due to many enemy units having bright colours which makes green blend in well with their outfits. Marked Ancients are also difficult to distinguish due to their default green auras. A simple suggestion is to let the debuff marks be customizable via energy color so the player can make it easier to distinguish a marked target themselves based on their color perspectives (Also adds a tinge of fashionframe into armor/shield stripping).

Chaos is overall fine, I would like to see more utilising effects of Chaos, but the concept of mass hysteria and enemies mostly ignoring you is a "close enough" in concept and execution.

Absorb: Weirdest ability for Nyx in my opinion, Absorb is advertised as a damage reflection ability and letting out damage you take in for yourself in an AOE. Once again, good concept bad execution.

• Rainbow damage absorption is irrelevant when enemies deal too little damage compared to their health. Once again, this is a prominent scaling issue, enemies have more health than the damage they actually deal. This is also combined with the fact that you cannot cast Psychic Bolts either to make enemies less tankier which makes Absorb's damage basically just a tickle even with roughly 200,000 damage piled up. Now, you can friendly fire into an ally Nyx's absorb to make it deal more damage but is it easier to shoot straight towards an enemy with crits and status procs or to just give raw damage to an absorbing Nyx? Another thing noted about Absorb's damage from the wiki is that only 10% of the incoming damage is absorbed, so there is even less chance for this ability to have an actual damage potential. 
• Absorb drains excessive energy the more you "absorb". This is one of the main reasons people do not like using Absorb. It has a threshold where you lose more energy each time you take a certain amount of damage. As quoted by the wiki: 

  Quote

  Absorb drains 7 / 6 / 5 / 4 energy per second, and will remain active so long as Nyx has energy. An additional 8 energy is drained for every 1000 damage that's absorbed. Absorb will end if Nyx runs out of energy, or if deactivated by pressing the ability key again (default 4 ).

  What does this mean? It means that each time you absorb 1000 damage, you lose more energy. This is exceptionally problematic in high levels where damage exceeds the thousands, so you're basically losing base 12 energy/s in a sortie whenever you're in absorb. It is comparable to Mesa or Revenant's ult drain but theirs are basically a fixed drain. In Nyx's case, you continuously lose extra energy if a sortie level enemy continues shooting you and you still won't absorb enough damage to take them down due to scaling. A simple fix to this problem is to make the energy drain a fixed rate and not increase with damage taken.

• Lack of interactivity with Absorb. In Absorb, you basically press 4 and that's it. There is nothing else to do but wait and hopefully absorb enough damage to kill an armored/shielded unit which in most cases you won't due to scaling. If Absorb wants to succeed in dealing good damage, my suggestion is to allow Absorb to cast abilities while it's active like Undertow. This would make Absorb deal damage abit more efficiently than before.

• "Lingering Absorption" takes too much to buildup for too little benefits. This is a more recent addition to buff Absorb with the description going like this:-

Quote

A thematic element of 'manipulating others damage' has now been weaved through Nyx's Absorb. Absorb now has 'lingering Absorption' - Nyx's Absorb now converts a % of the Absorbed Damage into a self Damage buff when the ability ends for a limited time, dispelled on recast. This means as your teammate or enemies power your Absorb, you can tactically break it for damage/range - and/ or a self-damage buff for Nyx imbued by those around you! This synergizes with Mind Control, allowing more powerful victims, as well as allowing more lethality on Nyx's weakened and distracted enemies. 

• Added +400% Damage cap to Nyx Absorb Damage buff.

On paper, it looks like an interesting concept but then the buff only lasts a base 8s (duration moddable) and 3% of the damage you absorb only counts for the damage buff, scales with strength. At most, you're getting around 20 seconds of damage buffs if you modded for max duration. Not to mention, you once again drain more energy when absorbing more damage. An unmodded Nyx, needs ~43,000 damage absorbed to hit the +400% cap. Even with a high efficiency setup, it takes around 300 energy to actually hit the cap. Why do we need to drain 300 energy to get a short 8s damage buff?

A simple Quality of Life change for this ability is to allow the damage buff to also affect Absorb's explosion damage to allow it to scale more effectively. 

Lastly, this is more of a personal opinion but why does Nyx need a damage buff? She is not designed to be a damage dealer by the extents of it nor does the "lingering absorption" resolve the problems with Nyx's Absorb, on top of the buff needing too much work for too little reward.. The problem isn't that Absorb is in need of a new gimmick, the problem is that it has too many limitations.

 

Titania's Problems:

Titania overall got the better changes out of the two females. She has some niche uses just for her Razorwing, and her Lantern is better now at drawing attention. However, even she feels half-baked with her current iteration.

Her abilities are insanely slow to cast. This holds true for all of her abilities, with Spellbind and Lantern being the main offenders. Slow cast time is one of the main factors Titania was barely used. Even with Natural Talent, the cast time for her abilities still take a substantial amount of time to use. Spellbind inhibits movement when casting for 1s, while Lantern inhibits movement for roughly 2s while "channeling" it. In a game where movement is a key factor, spammy abilities like Spellbind should not hinder movement.

Spellbind:

• Enemies flying around is a nuisance to guns. The most prominent issue of this ability is that enemies fly randomly around when they are shot while spellbound. This is annoying for a crowd control ability, and is reminiscent of old Hydroid, where you can barely aim at enemies unless you use an AOE weapon. If Lantern could have its balloon physics fixed, can we get spellbind to not ragdoll enemies around when shooting them?

Tribute: I would say thank you for addressing the issue of Tribute needing excess energy and making the costs lower, along with minor buffs. Not expecting DE to come up with new overhauls for Tribute buffs, so some number tweaking would even be nice.

• Buffs have little to no gameplay impact, especially for Titania. Tribute's main problem is that while the buffs look good on paper, most of them do not do anything that will actually change the tide of battle into Titania's favour. In fact, you can actually ignore Tribute and you'd still be better without spending energy on the buffs.
• Dust: Overall decent for evasion, even if evasion is a terrible mechanic in-game. 50% evasion stackable with Razorwing makes it abit useful for a cheap buff.
• Thorns: Very Impractical On A Paper Thin Fairy. Let's face it, Titania isn't a tank and she isn't meant to be one. Damage reflection doesn't matter when enemies deal enough damage to 1-shot you. Also, damage reduction even makes this ability worse since you only reflect damage you take, not 50% of the damage enemies deal. So, even on frames with high damage reduction this ability is still of bare use noticeable effect.
• Entangle: 30% Slow isn't even impactful. Entangle creates a 30m slow around Titania, which is fine. However, 30% slow is too little as enemies can actually run, especially with the Infested. Also, this buff doesn't stack with teammates meaning it's not even stackable at all. A simple tweak to 40%-50% slowdown would be nice.
• Full Moon. 75% bonus companion damage looks good on paper, but overall I have no comment on this buff since I can see Tribute just being a cheap buffer ability.

Lantern: Main issue is the extreme cast time which is still really slow even with Natural Talent, along with enemies not returning to their tether point fast enough. Aside from that, it is a decent distraction ability

Razorwing:

• Healing Razorflies on kill is impractical when the flies die to 1-hit. The drones are even squishier than Titania and can even be one-shotted within starchart levels to be healed upon a kill, especially when their main job is to be a distraction. A simple iteration is to allow Titania to restore drones upon kill. This will allow destroyed drones in high levels to continuously be a distraction against enemies as they are bound to be one-shotted in high levels to be an actual distraction.

 

Overall, this is my feedback regarding Nyx and Titania's revisit. It is understandable that this year will be abit busy with upcoming 2019 content and with melee 3.0, but if a warframe is to be revisited its entire kit and issues need to be wholly addressed and not half-baked. Nyx and Titania's revisit felt half-baked with new buffs but its the old issues and clunkiness that's making these frames awful to play. Overall, this revisit felt rushed.

An example can be taken from Nezha/Saryn/Oberon's revisit. They addressed why the frame is so lackluster while fixing up their old issues, along with bringing new concepts into the table.

Edited January 20, 2019 by 4holes

[LascarCapable]

You pretty much hit the nail on the head with your Nyx rework feedback, especially about the "hold 2 to cancel feature" (god I hate this one). The only thing I sort of disagree with is Mind Control needing a damage buff : the issue of mind control isn't exactly that you deal too few damage (though in a way you do), but it's more the fact that your MCed target wastes WAY TOO MUCH time doing something else than actively shooting at stuff. Be it running around, taking cover, being stunned, or just plain shooting at a wall. To make MC good, I think we could do the following changes.

• MC should become a channelled power (no duration, it goes on as long as you have energy).
• MC shouldn't stun the target for the first 4 seconds, or at least those 4 seconds shouldn't count in the ability's duration (assuming you're not going to turn MC into a channelled power).
• The MCed target should focus solely on being agressive.
• The MCed target should become much more accurate.
• The MCed target should gain bonus movement speed to keep up with the Tenno's pace, or at least be able to teleport near you.

Once this is done, maybe MC will start showing some efficiency.

Also MC doesn't especially need a synergy with Psychic Bolts because, in a way, there's already one : the bolts are able to strip all armor from a unit, so your MCed target is going to do much more damage on those guys. But I wouldn't mind if Psychic Bolts had an effect on the MCed target as well.

[Duality52]

41 minutes ago, 4holes said:

Lantern: Main issue is the extreme cast time which is still really slow even with Natural Talent. Overall, decent ability for a distraction at 4-points.

Should also mention how high Impact weapons (Carrier's Sweeper, Boar Prime) can still push the Lanterns away even if they "gradually" float back to their original positions, which renders the CC moot. It gets worse since my Carrier can just push the thing and pin it to a wall if it wants since it's consider targetable, somewhere not useful.

[chofranc]

Titania reworks was the most disappointing of both.

 - Spellbind should be reworked to something else since her 3 already does almost the same or tether the enemies to the ground like balloons, also, maybe even could heal allies for a fixed amount each time they get affected by an status effect since its gives status immunity.

- Thorns: no matter how much they increase its value, still will be bad since is reflection damage and as you say Titania also is squishy, maybe it should give bonus melee damage since you get it from melee units.

- Entangle should increase to 30%-40% to be decent.

- Full Moon should be increased to 100%, since as you say, you depend here in companions AI.

- Lantern: I noticed that the affected enemies still fly instead of being tethered in a specific location.

- Razorwing, the Razorflies should do finisher damage like Hydroid's tentacle, that way at least they potentially could do a lot more damage, also, you should be able to restore the killed Razorflies, healing them is a waste since they die easily at high level. I don't know why they though that healing them was a good idea, is like trying to heal nidus maggots.

They should increase the speed animation from her 1st to 3rd ability since they are too slow for the little impact they have.

 

Edited January 18, 2019 by chofranc

[ChromeKat]

Quote

Also MC doesn't especially need a synergy with Psychic Bolts because, in a way, there's already one : the bolts are able to strip all armor from a unit, so your MCed target is going to do much more damage on those guys. But I wouldn't mind if Psychic Bolts had an effect on the MCed target as well.

 

I was just pointing this out as one of the annoyances. MC-ed units don't care about debuffed targets and just shoot randomly at whatever draws their attention, perhaps a priority on debuffed targets with aggressive AI would be nice.

[Mu_Gera]

Absorbs damage energy drain and 10% limit really self defeats the purpose of trying to absorb more damage for a buff with low duration. The rainbow damage absorption is actually pretty good on the other hand, better than just base magnetic damage, but it could have a status chance since raw damage isn't that good anyways.

 

Bolts single cast limit is pretty bad and it's a huge tradeoff for what it was and the recast doesn't help at all, it's now practically a weaker seeking shuriken.

Edited January 19, 2019 by -Bv-Concarne

[VoadorHolandes]

The OP is absolutely right. It's funny how Nyx's revisit changes nothing, adresses nothing. It's slow and cumbersome and with the exception of the good ole Chaos nothing really works. It's the frame kit equivelant of getting stuck in a doorframe because of the map's funky geometry.

Why inflict damage to boost mind controlled enemies? Why hold #2 to reset the skill? Why the completely weird absorb merchanics? *In Werner's Herzog voice* "But why?"

-

Regarding skill #1, I don't think the multiplier makes any difference. Increasing it would make it overpowered in lower levels and still useless in higher levels. I think it just needs to be scrapped,

#2 Should be spammable, just have each cast reset the previous.

As for #4, I think the dev's mistake is to treat it like it can be used offensively(?). Given it's current parameters - crazy energy drain, low damage, short buff, etc. - it's just utterly pointless. Assimilate should be an Exilus mod, it should be allowed to cast skills just like undertow, it should be allowed to use gear items with Assimilate.

-

Now, my crazy idea for a rework (which of course will never come to fruition) would be thus: remove Mind Control, replace it with something similar to Equinox's Duplicate (could be called Psychic Projection); keep #2, and as written above, have it be spammable; as for Absorb, make it a pure defensive skill, and while using it have it so that you can take direct control of your duplicate to act as your proxy while you stand still. Sounds fun, at least in theory.

[Sergibf]

Titania needs a true rework, not some buffs or debuffs, since titania's main problem is also her essence; enemies flying away.

Maybe focusing her more into other stuff should help (change her 1 into something razorfly related could be cool) and also her 2 needs some buff adjustments, and i'm not talking about numbers, i'm talking about the kind of buffs, just more useful buffs instead of random stats that (almost) no one looks for directly. I'm not talking about giving her plain damage buffs, or damage reduction, but something more usable (maybe damage changes, like you turn a 5% of your total damage output into heat/cold/toxin/electricity depending on the enemy or on something else and making it stackable to a point).

What i'm trying to say, is that yes, titania can be forced to be good by giving her amazing numbers into her kit, but even if she was good, it wouldn't be fun, and that's literally the reason for titania to exist in first place, so...

Also i should clarify that i completely agree that her abilities have a way too long cast, all of them.

[GGbroman]

NYX potential issue:
Hey @[DE]Rebecca
Thanks for this first try on fixing up nyx. WIth more iterations based on our feedback (mentioned in this Topic or elsewhere) i'm sure you'll get her to a good spot.

I have a question about nyx's second ability tho:

it naturally removes 80% armor from enemies and so naturally i tried to get this to work with corrosive projection so i don't have to really put in strength and afford to use other mods and stuff like that. In missions however, it seems like corrosive projection (removes 30% enemy armor) + nyx's second ability is not turning the enemies health bars red. I see yellow health bars on enemies sometimes (so i assumed they still have armor). Was this intended? If not, pleeeease fix thanks 🙂

[ScytodiDaedalus]

You forgot to mention Razorflies will target Lantern'd enemies so their damage is absolutely wasted, either need to add in a targetting exception to the flies or, imo, remove them from Razorwing and add them to lantern so the lousy targetting isn't there.

[Xzorn]

I dunno. All they really did in my eyes was nerf. Her overall performance is just less.

They gave her a really clunky Psychic bolts then put way too much time into Absorb and Mind control trying to let Nyx do damage when that's not what Nyx is designed around. They destroyed her Pacifying Bolts augment. Her Chaos sphere still isn't useful and I'm not sure they've fixed a single long existing bug.

I still dunno why they haven't given the MC'd target increased threat levels...

Lets tally this rework up so far:

• Lost the ability to Disarm enemies thereby making the map safer for her and the team.
• Lost the ability to Stun many enemies at once for long periods.
• Lost the ability to have more than one Chaos active.
• Lost long range CC via Psychic Bolts Rad procs.
• Can strip Defenses of enemies at the expense of 90% Power Range.
• Gained (likely) additive base damage buff in exchange for not killing anything.
• Gained a passive so counter intuitive it has to be deactivated thereby omitting it's a passive.

I wish they'd left her alone honestly. If I can do lvl 350 Solo Void Defense with it. The frame isn't bad.

Edited January 20, 2019 by Xzorn

[Howtoshootgun]

The leashing changes seem to have made mind controlled enemies worse.

Several times id mind control an enemy in a chaosed pack and instead of staying there and attacking like it used to be theyd make a straight beeline to me ignoring everything. So since Nyx is squish despite this fabulous new evasion passive and i really dont wanna be next to anything i now got some useless dude next to me whos gonna attack me as soon as mc runs out if i dont kill it.

Wo asked for this. Even in a defense a "guard" next to me or the objective is a potential risk and less effective. I want them away from me or the objective drawing aggro somewhere else in that case. Was the argument that they dont stick to you if youre more mobile and so theyre not with you doin their amazing damage? This might be a difference in playstyles but i cant for the live of me imagine babysitting a mind controlled target for any lenght of time in any mission where youre not somewhat stationary/around the same place. Mayyybe if its a bursa id keep it around for abit but anything else? Painfully painfully slow and useless for anything but a temporary distraction. Youd have to give them a damage increase well beyond what we got now to make that effort worthwhile.

And even if id absolutely want a mind controlled target at all times its not like you cant just release your current one, move on and get another at any time you want. Oh no my Eximus isnt here if only it was leashed to my back. If your current crop of enemies doesnt include a higher level enemy you maybe are fine killing them on your own. If theres one with them hello new friend. Maybe some people get really attached and give em names, i dunno.

My understanding of MC was always a "fire and forget" thing. MC a big boi in a crowd so theyd all turn to him, optimally a punching bag like a bombard or gunner. MC a bursa so he gets off me and starts driving all over the place causing mayhem (well not anymore). Yes, sometimes they just took cover, sometimes theyd run around like chickens, mostly they didnt do much. What they always did was draw aggro, optimally kill a few enemies and then die. I musta been doing it wrong, having a mindcrontrolled "guard" sticking as close as possible to you with their amazing amazing amazing damage is much better apparently.

This "rework" is all kinds of bummers. But is anybody at DE reading forum feedback threads anyway or is the main channel nowadays steves twitter. Big Meh 😐

Edited January 20, 2019 by Howtoshootgun

[ChromeKat]

1 hour ago, Howtoshootgun said:

My understanding of MC was always a "fire and forget" thing. MC a big boi in a crowd so theyd all turn to him, optimally a punching bag like a bombard or gunner. MC a bursa so he gets off me and starts driving all over the place causing mayhem (well not anymore). Yes, sometimes they just took cover, sometimes theyd run around like chickens, mostly they didnt do much. What they always did was draw aggro, optimally kill a few enemies and then die. I musta been doing it wrong, having a mindcrontrolled "guard" sticking as close as possible to you with their amazing amazing amazing damage is much better apparently.

This "rework" is all kinds of bummers. But is anybody at DE reading forum feedback threads anyway or is the main channel nowadays steves twitter. Big Meh 😐

Yea, I can agree to it. Mind Controlled enemies could've been designed to be basically "super bodyguards" for Nyx like how BOB is for Ashe in Overwatch, but they retain their basic defensive AI behaviors like hiding behind covers to ""ambush"" enemies and aside from that, be a basic meat sponge or a free buff with Ancients/ospreys.

[WhimsicalPacifist]

13 minutes ago, 4holes said:

Yea, I can agree to it. Mind Controlled enemies could've been designed to be basically "super bodyguards" for Nyx like how BOB is for Ashe in Overwatch, but they retain their basic defensive AI behaviors like hiding behind covers to ""ambush"" enemies and aside from that, be a basic meat sponge or a free buff with Ancients/ospreys.

Personally I would make Mind Control the 4 and copy a certain other game where you take manual control of the target.  So you'd gain their weapon and stats.  Shift all the other abilities down N - 1.  Want to be the Heavy Gunner or Bombard (maybe even Nullfier if you take the shield down?).  Sure cool beans, you totally can.

[Sergibf]

hace 14 horas, ScytodiDaedalus dijo:

You forgot to mention Razorflies will target Lantern'd enemies so their damage is absolutely wasted, either need to add in a targetting exception to the flies or, imo, remove them from Razorwing and add them to lantern so the lousy targetting isn't there.

Maybe that problem itself would be a way to go? add evasion to the razorflies, take all it's damage away and make them act as decoys (actively puting them on top of the enemy priority aggro list)

Talking about adding them to lantern, that could be quite a good way to go (i think)

[LascarCapable]

Le 19/01/2019 à 00:26, 4holes a dit :

I was just pointing this out as one of the annoyances. MC-ed units don't care about debuffed targets and just shoot randomly at whatever draws their attention, perhaps a priority on debuffed targets with aggressive AI would be nice.

You're right and that's a good idea. They should be prioritizing those.

[Xzorn]

I made my own version of Psychic Bolts in a final attempt Topic post to help Nyx along with removing the leashing mechanic from MC and instead giving Nyx the ability to summon her pet manually. Also removed the 6 target max debuff and replaced it with marked targets the MC'd unit will prioritize.

Sadly though Nyx doesn't have a very large fan base in spite of her CC potency and I assume most players will just swap back to whatever. I myself play Loki for CC now. I preferred Nyx because she was more involved. A little more work for comparative performance. Sometimes better but this is no longer true.

EDIT: Oh and I also allowed Eximus enemies to grant their auras to Nyx and her team thereby improving offense and defense by picking a good MC target. A more purposeful and thematic way of increasing her damage instead of this forced Absorb thing.

---

	ENERGY 50 KEY 2	Psychic Bolts Nyx launches a cluster of force bolts at enemies, using telekinesis to adjust flight paths and seek nearby targets. Hits strip some enemy defenses.	Strength:20 / 40 / 60 / 80% (debuff amount)
			Duration:5 / 7 / 9 / 11s
			Range:N/A
			Misc:3 / 4 / 5 / 6 (bolts) 60 m (targeting range)

• Nyx launches 3 / 4 / 5 / 6 bolts of telekinetic energy that seek out enemies, removing 20 / 40 / 60 / 80% of the target's armor and shields, slowing Infested enemies by 20 / 40 / 60 / 80% removing Ancient Infested's auras and disabling Eximi auras for 5 / 7 / 9 / 11s Dealing 15 Radiation damage with a 50% status chance in an area of effect.
  • Debuff amount is affected by Ability Strength.
  • Debuff duration is affected by Ability Duration.
  • Status chance is affected by Ability Strength.
  • Radiation area is affected by Ability Range.
  • Number of bolts is not affected by mods.
  • Bolts bypass obstacles in the environment.
  • Psychic Bolts will not target enemies behind obstacles in the environment unless Nyx has line of sight, or unless the enemy is aware of Nyx within a short period of time (e.g., an enemy that spots Nyx and runs out of view can still be targeted by Psychic Bolts if the ability is used within a small time frame).
• Psychic Bolts will mark up to 6 targets at once. Enemies affected by the mark will cause Mind Controlled targets to attack them.
• Marked enemies can be reset instantly by holding the Psychic Bolts Key.
• Targeted enemies will briefly radiate energy as a visual indicator, and an audio cue will be played.
• Psychic Bolts is a one-handed action. As such, it can be used while performing various maneuvers and actions without interruption.

Edited January 21, 2019 by Xzorn

[Teridax68]

On 2019-01-18 at 6:36 PM, D20 said:

• The MCed target should focus solely on being agressive.
• The MCed target should become much more accurate.
• The MCed target should gain bonus movement speed to keep up with the Tenno's pace, or at least be able to teleport near you.

These I think are changes that could benefit every enemy-turning ability in the game. Currently, creating minions out of enemies is consistently crap, even when it's made really easy to do (e.g. Inaros with his 1 augment), if the frame can summon many at once (e.g. Nekros's 4), or both (e.g. Revenant's 1), because enemies use the same AI: hiding behind cover is good when fighting against the player, because that creates at least slightly more nuance to combat than if enemies all rushed the player mindlessly, and it's good that enemy attacks can miss against the player, because players as a baseline are supposed to move around to dodge incoming fire. Neither of those features are at all desirable against enemies, though, because there is no reason for one AI-controlled character to randomly miss against another AI-controlled character, nor does the player ever really care about the preservation of their own minions, particularly since enemy damage is so low relative to enemy health that most minions would still be near full health even if they never took cover. Nyx definitely has issues of her own, though a large part of her problems I think are systemic to the game, because her core gameplay revolves around turning her enemies against each other, yet enemies are so inadequate at damaging, let alone killing each other, and so due to poorly adapted AI and massive gaps between their damage and their health, that she has no real offensive capabilities. Instead of fixing this, DE seems to have instead tried to tack on damage self-buffs and similar gimmicks to her kit, which I don't think is the way to go with her.

Edited January 21, 2019 by Teridax68

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

On 2019-01-18 at 12:36 PM, D20 said:

 

• MC should become a channelled power (no duration, it goes on as long as you have energy).

Just going to comment on this part as i've seen this suggestion quite a bit.  Nyx has no innate way to midigate incoming damage.  Normally frames in this position rely on cc of some kind to live.  But Nyx's cc is chaotic.  Thus she falls back on quick thinking and prime flow to be her lifeline.  She's already having high up time on casting.  Be it to strip with bolts or stun lock with chaos.  Her absorb is already greedy at high level content which is why it's not really used outside panic situations like protecting an objective from incoming fire while the primary defensive warframe re puts up the barrier.  So making MC channeled would actually hurt her in her current state.

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

An overall good summary of both kits current standing issues minus a few.  I personally don't feel comfortable making suggestions about Titania but I do feel comfortable about Nyx.  I think i'm in the opposite camp with Nyx.  A lot of players seemed to like the ability for her to spam abilities and get random disarms semi frequently.  I will admit it's a pretty nice thing.  But the lack of control over who you're disarming is ultimately why i'm not a fan of it (and sort of why I don't like disarm as an effect much these days.)  Disarm seems to be rather volatile of an effect.  Meaning either you're disarming everyone and thus it is a good effect.  Or you're not and then it's not a good effect.  Disarm pre rework in addition to hurting allies like chroma or rage tanks in general could also hurt nyx.  Because she could accidentally disarm her MC'ed choice target.  Which makes it more useless than it normally is.Mind you i'm not saying her current passive is great either.  But I prefer it over disarm.  If only because I can't actually hurt my own gameplay with it.  That being said I still think she should get a new passive.  Just not going back to disarm.

 

Mind control:  I like the interaction of being able to boost it's damage.  But that's kinda where it stops.  I think it would really help if mind controlled targets first attacked whatever nyx herself was attacking.  And then attacked enemies close to nyx.  This should drastically reduce the awkward AI issues it has.  Then I would modify the new interaction.  She can still tap to cast for the 4 seconds and base duration.  Or she could hold to cast to let her allies wail on her target and multiply the duration the longer she holds it.  That way you're not stopping constantly to make a new buffed mc target.  Augment should be changed to something that could maybe help the target persist (like on target death enemy near by is mced).  Or maybe let her MC a small group of enemies with less damage boost/time controlled.

Bolts:  Defense strip is pretty nice and semi works thematically.  The issue is the charge time conflicting with her augment.  And again you don't have control over who you're stripping.  Also it's not a strip it's more of a temporary removal since the debuff has a duration.  Bolts should get a similar treatment to nekros's shadows of the dead.  Meaning the bolts will know highest threat and attempt to hit those first.  Duration of the debuff should be gone to be turned into a perma strip.  We have so many other abilities that can outright do this but in a mass scale or simply the ability to just ignore shields/armor with high slash/status builds.  removing this should remove the conflict with the augment.  And i'd personally like the ability to disarm be tacked onto the current augment.  This way she retains the ability to disarm but it have a much less likely chance of hurting herself/others gameplay.

Absorb:  I think DE/others need to stop looking at it as a damage ability.  We can involve damage in the process but she herself is not a direct damage dealer.  Absorb is her only direct defensive ability that involves using the enemies attacks against them.  The only logical buff in my mind is to improve it's capability to help her defensively.  I would suggest something dubbed "psychic armor."  Maybe x amount of damage absorbed gives her x amount of "plates" she sheds when reaching a damage threshold.  so similar to iron skin.  Or perhaps make it a mixture of negation swarm/adaptation.  Either way players need a reason to go into absorb.  and a personal buff seems like the way to go.  I do think when she pops absorb she should be considered "aggroed" like that augment for a sword and board melee.  That way enemies will actually attack her creating a more consistent experience.  And finally the energy drain from absorb should be a fixed amount.  The fact that she can lose her entire energy bar in a second or so is absurd.

Passive:  I don't have a really strong suggestion here.  But I think there are two ways we can go with it in a thematic way.  Either we do something that incorperates her constant casting.  Or something that helps her survival.  Casting wise maybe enemies effected by her abilities are more vulnerable to their weaknesses for a short period of time.  Survival wise maybe enemies take longer to be aware of her presence. So like if she bullet jumps/slides by an enemy they won't notice her.  Or if she tries to stealth kill but melees instead it takes 2 hits for them to be aware.  something like that.