One year later: Time for an ember rework

[PortalsFTW]

Today is the anniversary of update 22.12, a mainline update which saw a lot of re-balances to warframes. Arguably one of the most controversial changes in this patch was the way in which ember was changed to be more "balanced." It is clear that world on fire had to be changed as it was (and still is) a turn on and forget ability that trivializes low level missions, stealing the fun from new players. So, caving to the pressure placed on them by the complaints of these new players, DE decided that world on fire did not need a rework, it needed a rushed out nerf.

World on fire's damage now increases over time at the cost of increased energy use and a massive reduction to ability range. This was obviously designed to prevent embers built with high range from running through low level missions melting everything. However, this change completely failed in this regard as, since there is no energy shortage in low level missions, embers could just recast the ability every once in a while and still nuke absolutely everything below level 30. To make matters worse, more experienced players wanting to take ember into high level missions found her horribly nerfed. The doubled damage from world on fire is useless in high level, as world on fire's damage scales poorly (especially against armour). Meanwhile, the increased energy cost of recasting world on fire and the decrease in range reduced the survivability of an already squishy frame even further, directly impacting firequake builds. Outside of low level missions, ember already performed poorly before this nerf. Why DE decided to nerf a frame that was far from top tier is baffling.

So the changes to world on fire failed to stop ember from nuking low level enemies and failed to make ember more effective in high level missions. Did the changes to her other abilities make up for this? In short, no they did not. Fireball, while capable of doing some decent damage (so long as your target has no armour or protoshields), takes too long to charge up. Fire blast adding heat damage to weapons shooting through the ring requires ember, a very squishy frame, to stay in one place because ability range has no effect on the ring's size. Fire blast also costs much more energy than it is worth (should be 50, not 75) and is effected by duration, making low duration embers less effective. Her passive was also not changed, and it remains as useless as ever to this day.

(TL;DR for this paragraph: ember is much weaker compared to other warframes) I have seen a few people in the forums arguing that ember is in a good place and not in need of changes. Perhaps this might have been the case several years ago, but nowadays this is completely untrue. Ember can not take hits, her stuns are sub par and she can only work as a buffing frame for weapons (and only in certain conditions at that). Let's compare ember to a few other popular frames. Rhino can take many hits, can buff teammates' ability damage as well as weapon damage and has an area of effect stun that completely freezes all enemies for a fairly extensive period of time. Ember can not take hits, can only buff weapon damage (and only with fire damage, which can clash with mods to prevent the bonus from accelerant) and the stuns from her fire procs and accelerant are inconsistent (fire procs dont always happen, accelerant stuns for varying periods of time depending on enemy type, neither effect certain enemies like ospreys and turrets). Excalibur has a powerful stun that incapacitates all nearby enemies, even opening them up to finishers. Excalibur can also dish out massive amounts of damage, even at high level, with his modable exalted blade. Again, ember has inconsistent stuns and her damage falls off massively at higher levels. Nezha has a damage reduction ability, enabling him to survive despite normally being squishy. He can incapacitate nearby enemies for a long period of time with his 4, and even apply damage reduction buffs to teammates. Ember had her damage reduction ability removed because it was deemed too overpowered and, again, has inconsistent stuns. Saryn scales very well in endgame content due to corrosive and viral damage, and is capable of nuking high level maps with ease. Ember does not scale well due to heat damage and can only nuke low level maps. Mesa can deflect projectiles, increasing her survivability greatly, and can destroy crowds of high level enemies at long range easily with her fourth ability. Ember has no survivability outside of inconsistent stuns and can deal minor amounts of damage to enemies right next to her. Long story short, ember is NOT in a good place, she is considered by most to be of the lowest tier along with vauban and hydroid. Can she behave as a decent buffing frame? Yes, but only when bandaged by augment mods and only in terms of weapon damage, not ability damage.

Why make this argument for an ember rework on the one year anniversary of update 22.12? It all comes down to this statement made by DE in regards to the warframe changes done in this update: "We believe these changes make our wide Warframe roster more diverse and fun to play. We will be listening to your responses, so please keep feedback respectful and constructive." These changes failed to diversify ember picks. After the update, she is rare to see. That is because the 22.12 update only worsened the problem she had: people quickly run through low level missions playing her on solo to complete them as fast as possible. It is rare to see embers in high level missions. This problem was made clear through feedback made on the forums, which has continued consistently to this day, and through the opinions of prominent warframe players:

Quiette Shy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jWffcJx2sg

Tactical Potato: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HE3qxWy7M9I

AGGP: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQKDlwh-slk

LifeofRio (7:55): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjgZI4WO4RE

So there was a lot of feedback and constructive criticism (along with some rightfully angry criticism) surrounding the changes to ember. Believing that DE would uphold their word and listen to the feedback they got, I (and many other ember mains) have been waiting for a year, hoping for word of a rework. Unfortunately, DE did not uphold their word and have not addressed the issues that they worsened in regards to ember.

To conclude, it is clear that what ember needed was a REWORK, not a NERF. However, DE took the easy route and, rather than put in the effort to completely rework ember to make her less AFK while making her more viable for high level missions, somehow worsened the issues surrounding the her. The reason that DE has not started on a rework for her yet can not be that they have no ideas, unless they truly do not listen to their community. There are countless posts that have been made in the warframe feedback forums detailing many great suggestions as to how ember can be reworked. This post is simply made to draw DE's attention to this fact: the update 22:12 changes to ember that took place a year ago were a massive mistake. After failing to listen to community feedback and constructive criticism as they said they would, DE is long overdue for fixing the mistake that they made. Ember does not need small changes, she needs a complete rework, especially in regards to her fourth ability and passive.

BONUS COMPLAINTS: Here's some other things that have grinded my gears as an ember main over the past couple of years.

-DE scrapped IgnusDei's beautiful deluxe skin for ember due to conflict over the artist's vision (AKA IgnusDei's design looked much better than DE's, so DE fired him) and replaced it with a chicken suit.

-Ember prime was unvaulted last year, just before DE nerfed her as described above. People who bought ember prime were ripped off without any advanced warning. Now, ember prime is unvaulted again and I have seen people in region chat asking why anyone would buy her.

I swear, DE hates ember now as much as they've hated mag in the past. Show the ember mains some love, DE!

Edited February 17, 2019 by PortalsFTW

[Hypernaut1]

She was actually buffed overall

[PortalsFTW]

1 hour ago, Hypernaut1 said:

She was actually buffed overall

Come now, I write all of that and you respond with 5 words? Please tell me, how exactly was she buffed overall? Can you refute any of the point that I made?

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

2 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

She was actually buffed overall

She wasn’t tho. Her 1 is still useless. Her 2 and three aren’t really that impactful. And her 4 is well bad enough to put Ember in 3rd place of “Most rework threads in the last year”.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

Word of advice. If you want to remain credible here do not use Rio as a source of information. His (very justified) reputation as a clickbaiter just makes anyone who references his video just seem like a joke.

I would give more feedback after that but it appears you forgot to put any actual rework ideas in your thread about a rework. So better luck next time I guess? 😕

Edited February 10, 2019 by (XB1)GearsMatrix301

[Xzorn]

I think she would be overall okay if they simply reverted those WoF changes. It was obviously a nerf and not a buff.

Anyone who's played Ember knows Accelerant multipliers make the mechanic redundant. If it's got armor it's not dying either way and they forced a very clunky upkeep to a frame that can't really afford to keep re-casting to get back vital ambient CC WoF provided. Yeah, Accelerant is even better CC but it has variable stun timers on different enemies so that layer of WoF CC helped her a lot.

In a group she can give everyone some massive damage output. Simply massive and if the downside of that is she doesn't work well against armor, okay. A downside isn't a bad thing but the upside also needs to be there. If I'm doing Buff bot Ember against Corpus / Infested I don't even turn on WoF anymore and the only reason I use her 1st ability is obviously Fireball Frenzy. She's still a high end buff frame but I would never play her Solo anymore.

[Arcira]

It´s funny because the kit is quite good in theory. But the amount of restrictions on her abilities is insane.

Some examples:

- The Fire Blast Wave + Accelerant build could be decent for focus farm in ESO but it´s not affected by range mods and has line of sight limitations (unlike Volt/Saryn/Equinox etc)

- Fire Blast Ring + Fire Fright would a be nice combo in defense missions against Infested but the the proc is unreliable because enemies just ignore the "100%" chance sometimes and the ring isn´t affected by range as well (unlike Frost/Gara/Limbo etc). Right, almost forgot about that non scaling heat damage buff which doesn´t even work half of the time.

- Accelerant is a debuff which is useless against certain enemies like Terralysts or Profit Taker, Flash Accelerant does not buff general ability damage and you can accidentally change elemental types (unlike Rhino/Chroma/Equinox etc). Also it´s has probably the shortest stun isn´t affected by duration and has a variable duration.

- Fireball could be a good cc tool but the chargetime reduction is caped and neither range nor duration mods have any effect (unlike Frost/Inaros/Hydroid etc). Funfact the visual radius is affected by power strength but the actual range doesn´t change. Maybe a scrapped feature?

- WoF is the only aoe ultimate with a limit on how many enemies can be affected at once and the aoe will be reduced to 1/4 after a short time (unlike Equinox/Revanent/Banshee etc).

bonus:

- Overheat could be a good ability to make her more durable but it doesn´t fit her kit (unlike Mesa/Gara/Nova etc)

- Fire Blast was good in the first Plague Star event against Hemocyte and got nerfed immediately

- gets a passive to kill herself

So essentially anything she could be good at is limited or nerfed in some way. Meanwhile Saryn and Volt nuke the map, Chroma still one shots Terralyst weakspots, Inaros and Rhino run around with 100k+ ehp and other "balanced" things exist like invisibility and immortality.

Edited February 10, 2019 by Arcira

[Hypernaut1]

7 hours ago, PortalsFTW said:

Come now, I write all of that and you respond with 5 words? Please tell me, how exactly was she buffed overall? Can you refute any of the point that I made?

The ONLY "nerf"  they did was make WoF shrink OVER TIME. you can recast to regain range. So basically you have to press 4 a few more times and use up a bit more energy, which in today's energy economy isn't a big deal to me.

-WOF has increased damage now. If you're not having a panic attack over the reduced range at 100% (it's not 0 you know), you can take advantage of the increased damage with accelerant. 

-Her fireball was buffed. You can charge it now to make it stronger and you can use it as distant CC because it leaves a napalm patch where you aim it. It's objectively better than out was before. 

- fireblast increases damage when shooting through it's flame. It's objectively better than it was before

-accelerant increases cast speed. It's objectively better than it was before

Soooo.... You can argue they didn't do enough or that more is needed, but I really don't see where Ember was nerfed. All they did was make WoF a bit less brain dead so you can't just set and forget. You need to RECAST for the SAME EXACT RANGE she's always had. So if the WoF augment was your bread and butter ultimate CC (never was that great anyway) then all you need to do is recast. Just recast to relive that old glory. Just recast and enjoy the other buffs.

So excuse me if I don't see where recasting an ability means a frame has suddenly become unplayable despite the fact that everything else was given a slight boost. 

Again, not saying they made Ember top tier. If you want to argue she needs a buff, sure go ahead. But her last update was not an overall nerf to her kit. If all you did was run around with WoF max range, then you weren't ever a great Ember player to begin with.

Edited February 10, 2019 by Hypernaut1

[ShortCat]

1 hour ago, Hypernaut1 said:

So basically you have to press 4 a few more times and use up a bit more energy, which in today's energy economy isn't a big deal to me.

Doubled energy drain (which is actually understandable) in combination with repeated recasts add activation cost of 50 energy and turn into 4 times more energy costs than before the change. Energy economy is broken on its own and is a weak excuse.

1 hour ago, Hypernaut1 said:

WOF has increased damage now. If you're not having a panic attack over the reduced range at 100% (it's not 0 you know), you can take advantage of the increased damage with accelerant. 

Even in combination with Accelerant WoF is just not a good damaging ability the further you go. Its CC component was always more important at later stages and range nerf actually affects her. OP described it very well already. It was a change nobody asked for and it makes absolutely no sense how this ability works right now, given that half the damage comes from heat procs and the ability cannot override its own inferior procs when damage increases. Damage ramp up is not supported by the innate heat proc mechanic.

1 hour ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Her fireball was buffed. You can charge it now to make it stronger and you can use it as distant CC because it leaves a napalm patch where you aim it. It's objectively better than out was before. 

It takes 2.5 seconds to charge (compare it to Nezha's chakram) and costs 50! energy. Damage is insignificant. CC is lackluster, because it is based on slow ticking status procs and enemies will just walk out of AoE inbetween those ticks. Non of those improvements matter in the end, as you just won't use the ability.

2 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

fireblast increases damage when shooting through it's flame. It's objectively better than it was before

Fireblast was not designed for this effect, so its application is lackluster, especially with increased verticality and more terrain elevation on new maps like Fortuna and upcomming gas city. It is not practiacal. Not to mention poor cost - benefit ratio and direct competition with Accelerant.
Buff works: https://imgur.com/BUcSnUM
Jump (not a double jump), and you lose the buff: https://imgur.com/r37yvg2
Standing in the ring is also not enough: https://imgur.com/V4fk5rW

2 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

accelerant increases cast speed. It's objectively better than it was before

Cast speed buff was added to Ember herself long time ago, squadbuff requires Flash Accelerant Augment, which every competent Ember player will use anyway. Nevertheless, Ember did not and will not become relevant due to her cast speed buff alone.

2 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

...but I really don't see where Ember was nerfed... despite the fact that everything else was given a slight boost.

Worse energy management and range loss directly affect her survivability in a negative way, while none of the "buffs" are worth mentioning or even usefull in the first place. Top performing builds rely even more on (Flash) Accelerant. At the same time pretextual reason behind those changes, namely low level clear speed, remains unresolved and could/can be done better with setups like spin2win or Maim Equinox.

 

[ShortCat]

7 hours ago, Arcira said:

is unreliable because enemies just ignore the "100%" chance sometimes

It is not that they are "not affected". Fireblast as well as Fireball AoE have a pulsa rate at which they apply heat procs. Often enough enemies, especially fast ones, will run out of AoE inbetween pulses and free themselves, thus those abilities cannot CC a moving enemy for the entire duration. Ancient Healers are a special case, because they transfer all status procs as well as knock downs from Firequack Augment onto themselves. This hurts Ember, because her CC is proc based and gets completely negated.

[(PSN)ForNoPurpose]

Yes buff ember.

Tho to be fair her weakness is and always has been the absurdity of how armor scales on enemies...

 

And her 1 being absolutely terrible.... vaubans tesla is better!

[Arcira]

5 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

The ONLY "nerf"  they did was make WoF shrink OVER TIME. you can recast to regain range. So basically you have to press 4 a few more times and use up a bit more energy, which in today's energy economy isn't a big deal to me.

-WOF has increased damage now. If you're not having a panic attack over the reduced range at 100% (it's not 0 you know), you can take advantage of the increased damage with accelerant.

- overheat: damage *2, energy cost * 2, aoe /4

Overheat is a less usefull state in terms of opportunity damage and cc but has increased close range single target damage. A very situational damage increase (minor buff) but most of the time it´s clearly less effective compared to the standard form (nerf)

- you have to recast WoF in order to maintain your better ability stats (nerf)

 

5 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

-Her fireball was buffed. You can charge it now to make it stronger and you can use it as distant CC because it leaves a napalm patch where you aim it. It's objectively better than out was before. 

- Fireball cc = redundant because of Accelerant (neutral)

- charging lowers dps (nerf)

5 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

- fireblast increases damage when shooting through it's flame. It's objectively better than it was before

- seriously bugged sometimes it doesn´t apply the damage to projectiles eventhough you clearly shot through the ring (nerf)

- very inconvenient if it works (minor buff)

- mobility is restricted by using this mechanic (nerf)

5 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

-accelerant increases cast speed. It's objectively better than it was before

Accelerant did this before (not part of the changes).

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In general:

- just because something does more doesn´t mean it has been buffed. Especially in case of Fireball and Fire Blast where you can become weaker by trying to use those mechanics.

- as you said Firequake was never that great to begin with and now it´s not that good and inconvenient to use.

- the update change one thing that actually matters you have to recast you ability to maintain the range which is a nerf. Everything else was pointless and doesn´t change the way she plays.You could as well add extra damage to WoF against unalerted enemies.

- very few things in this game are unplayable. You can do sortie missions with a modded MK1-Braton but is it reasonable to do so?

Edited February 10, 2019 by Arcira

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

A lot of year 1-2 frames are in dire need of an overhaul with new powers to keep them relevant with the later additions to the roster...I'm not fan of Ember's deluxe as well. It really needs to be re-worked...As for the lower planets she'll just suffer another "rework" if she continues to destroy the new players experience in any form...which, is really hilarious at this point considering Saryn and Volt just wiping the maps in onslaught...let alone anything from Mercury to Jupiter with ease...

So I don't even see the point to nerfing anything from the Tonkor to Ember anymore if it just means another OP whack-mole game is happening in the forums to little effect other than making a whole lot of players miserable in one way or another...I've come to the conclusion that along side re-works, weapon sets, and power kits...De should be adding a new Enemy variant meant to deal with that specific frame to each faction's mob on its release so there's something ready to rain on the player's "main" frame's parade giving the other warframes on the team a chance to be relevant to the fight since it's not effecting them...

It's been six years of up and downs for everyone on their frame of choice...there's gotta be a better way to keep the power fantasy and challenge rather than this constant nerf and buff seesaw...

 

 

[Hypernaut1]

3 hours ago, ShortCat said:

Doubled energy drain (which is actually understandable) in combination with repeated recasts add activation cost of 50 energy and turn into 4 times more energy costs than before the change. Energy economy is broken on its own and is a weak excuse.

 

I have no issue recasting WoF or even leaving it running at 100% like i did before. Yes, i'll agree that it was a nerf, but at the same time, i can easily compensate for it by recasting. I didnt even need to change my build. With the old WoF, its drain was negligible to the point where it felt like a free damage aura. Fact remains, whether you feel its enough or not, the damage increases. I personally notice the difference, even in high end content when armor is stripped. I never got why people act like WoF provided GREAT CC. It NEVER did. it was random. Ember has always been squishy. If you were relying on WoF to provide CC at range in high end content, then you were dying often. Fireblast and accelerant were always Embers best CC abilities. WoF was ONLY balls to walls awesome in low end content farming. 

My Ember playstyle kept her mobile and relied on accelerant for CC. I jump in, accelerant , kill, escape. Currently, max WoF provided more reliable CC than it did before up close. I have no numbers or videos to compare, but personally, i do find with the shortened range (which STILL has some range BTW) procs more reliably to enemies near me...the ones that count with a mobile Ember.

3 hours ago, ShortCat said:

 

It takes 2.5 seconds to charge (compare it to Nezha's chakram) and costs 50! energy. Damage is insignificant. CC is lackluster, because it is based on slow ticking status procs and enemies will just walk out of AoE inbetween those ticks. Non of those improvements matter in the end, as you just won't use the ability.

 

FACT remains, fireball does more than it did before. a buff. Maybe you cant use its CC, but i have reliably used it to hinder small groups of enemies from approaching. something it couldn't do before. It was objectively buffed. I use the ability often between reloading, especially at choke points. 

3 hours ago, ShortCat said:

Fireblast was not designed for this effect, so its application is lackluster, especially with increased verticality and more terrain elevation on new maps like Fortuna and upcomming gas city. It is not practiacal. Not to mention poor cost - benefit ratio and direct competition with Accelerant.
Buff works: https://imgur.com/BUcSnUM
Jump (not a double jump), and you lose the buff: https://imgur.com/r37yvg2
Standing in the ring is also not enough: https://imgur.com/V4fk5rW

Cast speed buff was added to Ember herself long time ago, squadbuff requires Flash Accelerant Augment, which every competent Ember player will use anyway. Nevertheless, Ember did not and will not become relevant due to her cast speed buff alone.

Worse energy management and range loss directly affect her survivability in a negative way, while none of the "buffs" are worth mentioning or even usefull in the first place. Top performing builds rely even more on (Flash) Accelerant. At the same time pretextual reason behind those changes, namely low level clear speed, remains unresolved and could/can be done better with setups like spin2win or Maim Equinox.

 

Again, you are arguing that you dont like the buff. Fine. But Fireblast does more than it did before. I use the damage buff after casting fireblast because enemies are CCed for a bit, ,then i move on when they start to recover or recast fireblast to knock them down again. acelerant + fireblast buff does give a decent and noticeable damage boost. try it.

You can argue that she needs a buff, or that the little buffs they did do was not enough...but fact remains they buffed her abilities with the caveat that you need to RECAST her 4 to maintain it. 

1 hour ago, Arcira said:

In general:

- just because something does more doesn´t mean it has been buffed. Especially in case of Fireball and Fire Blast where you can become weaker by trying to use those mechanics.

They do more. Doing more is not a "nerf".  If WoF losing range suddenly makes you a bad Ember player, then you werent using her kit properly to begin with. WoF was never awesome in high end content. It was a random CC ability. In fact,, ill go as far to say that having to recast WoF makes it BETTER at CC because when you recast it hits 5 at once. 

This all amounts to people pouting because they cant dance on top of an objective with max range WoF. Because other than that, it didnt make or break an Ember player. Its CC was never something to build an Ember around.

Edited February 10, 2019 by Hypernaut1

[Arcira]

25 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

They do more. Doing more is not a "nerf".

By that logic the overheat damage isn´t a buff to WoF either. Sure if you want to suggarcoat and call it a weaker alternative playstyle her fine with me.

25 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

If WoF losing range suddenly makes you a bad Ember player, then you werent using her kit properly to begin with. WoF was never awesome in high end content. It was a random CC ability.

It´s bad so it need a nerf? Makes sense. If Chroma looses his 1000%+ damage buff would he be unplayable? Unlikely. Would Chroma mains be upset? Very likely.

25 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

 In fact,, ill go as far to say that having to recast WoF makes it BETTER at CC because when you recast it hits 5 at once.

You can do that without the changes as well.

25 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

This all amounts to people pouting because they cant dance on top of an objective with max range WoF. Because other than that, it didnt make or break an Ember player. Its CC was never something to build an Ember around.

Her unreliable and weak CC is her only defense tool. If anything they should have buffed her. And if people think dancing on top of an object is the most gamebreaking balance issue in this game she is probably doomed anyway.

However in my opinion the main problem isn´t that she has been changed (nerfed) it´s that these changes did nothing to bring her in line with other warframes. They don´t do many adjustments to warframes so and I can relate to people who are very disapointed because they know she will remain in this state for quite some time (which has been proven true since the last update was made a year ago).

Edited February 10, 2019 by Arcira

[ShortCat]

5 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

My Ember playstyle kept her mobile and relied on accelerant for CC. I jump in, accelerant , kill, escape. Currently, max WoF provided more reliable CC than it did before up close. I have no numbers or videos to compare, but personally, i do find with the shortened range (which STILL has some range BTW) procs more reliably to enemies near me...the ones that count with a mobile Ember.

Why are you even in the face with enemies with her? She is squishy and it is better to stay away from danger not jump right into hell. Old WoF helped at establishing an engagement line, where you would kill enemies before they come closer to you, kinda like Banshee with Silence is played.

5 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

FACT remains, fireball does more than it did before. a buff.

5 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Again, you are arguing that you dont like the buff. Fine. But Fireblast does more than it did before.

You can mount a scope, flashlight and an extra mag on a shovel, yet you won't dig faster with it. Quantity =/= Quality.

6 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

You can argue that she needs a buff, or that the little buffs they did do was not enough...but fact remains they buffed her abilities with the caveat that you need to RECAST her 4 to maintain it. 

WoF used to be a duration ability before it turned into a toogle. I was actually against those changes at that time, becasuse it was obvious, that a toogle mechanic would turn WoF into press and forgett ability and it will cause new problems. Now, it did a full circle and turned again into a pseudo duration ability, as you say, with the difference, that base duration is worse than ever, unmodable and there is an energy drain on top of activation costs with poor range and terrible damage output for a #4 DPS ability or an offensive caster.

Ember needs a complete overhaul, not some number adjustments or a pile of useless additions.

[(PSN)deathwolfclaw666]

Has it really been a year? I remember how I used her pre-nerf. Activate 4th then mix gunfire with her 3rd, 2nd and first while on the move, now those were fun times. Post patch it was just sit in one spot with 4th active then drop a energy booster and repeat. At least I've moved on to mixing gunfire with spamming 3.

[XenMaster]

Now im getting the feeling now where ember main feel their frame getting "rework".

[Arcira]

Here is another Ember exclusive "feature": apparently Accelerant doesn´t work with heat damage based abilities from other frames (tested with Garas ultimate). Would be fun if Chroma doesn´t buff other player or rhinos buff didn´t work on saryn ultimate right?

I´m just guessing here correct me if I´m wrong but I think it doesn´t work like stated in the wiki and increases all heat damage recieved but only from weapon damage or abilities from the player casting Accelerant? Did someone tested wether one Ember can increase the damage from another one?

Edited February 12, 2019 by Arcira

[ShortCat]

52 minutes ago, Arcira said:

Here is another Ember exclusive "feature": apparently Accelerant doesn´t work with heat damage based abilities from other frames (tested with Garas ultimate).

Accelerant and Fireball augments do not add fire damage to all abilities. Mesa's regulators will get the bonus, Mag's Crush won't. It must be a weapon like ability. It could work with Gara's #2 though.

[Arcira]

2 minutes ago, ShortCat said:

Accelerant and Fireball augments do not add fire damage to all abilities. Mesa's regulators will get the bonus, Mag's Crush won't. It must be a weapon like ability. It could work with Gara's #2 though.

From the wiki:

Ember´s Accelerant: Ember releases a wave of accelerant, briefly stunning all enemies within a radius of 8 / 12 / 15 / 20 meters. Against affected enemies, all inflicted Heat damage will be multiplied by 150% / 175% / 200% / 250%.

Gara´s Mass Vitrify: If Gara strikes her own Mass Vitrify glass barrier with Shattered Lash's glass longsword, the barrier is shattered and destroyed in an explosion of glass fragments that inflicts Shattered Lash's damage and 500 / 600 / 700 / 800 Heat damage to all enemies within 8 / 10 / 12 / 15 meters from the barrier's exterior surface.

In conclusion the damage should be affected.

[ShortCat]

2 minutes ago, Arcira said:

Gara´s Mass Vitrify: If Gara strikes her own Mass Vitrify glass barrier with Shattered Lash's glass longsword, the barrier is shattered and destroyed in an explosion of glass fragments that inflicts Shattered Lash's damage and 500 / 600 / 700 / 800 Heat damage to all enemies within 8 / 10 / 12 / 15 meters from the barrier's exterior surface.

How did you test it?

[Arcira]

4 minutes ago, ShortCat said:

How did you test it?

By doing the thing? You know someone casts Mass Vitrify with and without my Accelerant and then we compare numbers 🤨...

Edited February 12, 2019 by Arcira

[ShortCat]

3 minutes ago, Arcira said:

By doing the thing?

What is the order of action?

[Arcira]

1 minute ago, ShortCat said:

What is the order of action?

You are probably refering to the duration of Accelerant? Cast -> Mass Vitrify -> look at number -> cast -> Accelerant -> cast -> Mass Vitrify ->  look at number - > compare -> wait -> repeat.