We need to talk, DE.

[CreamedSoda]

ok

[ObviousLee]

1 minute ago, -QUILL_PETER- said:

Because it's their game and they have creative freedom to make whatever they want for whatever reason they see fit?
Making Zephyr be able to fly as freely as you want may sound good paper, but remember most of Warframe still takes place in tight, enclosed corridors. Granting a 6 foot tall bird monster the ability to fly at full speed through tight spaces and right angles would be absurd, counter intuitive, and a waste of time and resources.
At least, that would be my best guess.

Because their game requires the people to be happily playing it for them to continue making money? Lets not pretend for a split second that there have not been instances where the dev's have caved over absolutely outrageous responses to borderline minimal changes (see death threats at rebecca over vacuum nerf) and yet wht I find interesting is that in the instance of a reasonable request that a few of us over the years have requested go ignored unless someone pulls the "stupid" lever and does a dumb thing that the dev's cave to. I'd prefer if it didn't get to that part.

 

Also In the past I've conjured a few differing flight mechanics that would work exceptionally well in ANY tileset, as well as in the open areas such as valis and the plains. So that excuse falls flat.

[ObviousLee]

4 minutes ago, InDueTime-EN- said:

Titania is the justification. If they didn't give zephyr flight in her remake, which came after Titania, it is unlikely that Hyldrin would change that. Zephyr's artthetic theme may be "birb", but that's not what her moveset dictates. Her them is wind. Wind control and wind pressure. 

 

How many first are truly useful in all situations? Tailwind primary action can still be useful when it comes to traversal, even if it is much harder to control and may usually cause you to crash into walls. Compare that to Ember's fireblast which is really just useful in early game, what about tesla? spectral scream? 

 

Zephyr is still thematic, and although there may be some changes needed to improve her, but flight is not a requirement for her.
 

An alternative suggestion would be for her passive to make her hover on aim rather than aim glide and just remove the secondary function of tailwind. This would make it easier to use and it would benefit from parkour mods. 

it's not about being useful in all situations. it's about it being USEABLE in all situations. You can use any 1 skill that doesn't require a target in any tileset, but in the regards of tailwind if you want to use it indoors so to speak, you have to cut duration which hampers your other skills. A while ago I suggested a flight system that would allow players actual flight while simultaneously allowing people who enjoy the current method of the machanics functioning to continue to do so.

[seprent]

5 minutes ago, ObviousLee said:

Also In the past I've conjured a few differing flight mechanics that would work exceptionally well in ANY tileset, as well as in the open areas such as valis and the plains. So that excuse falls flat.

i'd say works well on paper since you have no real means to execute the idea to see how well it behaves in tile sets 

[ObviousLee]

I'm going to update the OP with my post from last year about how I feel tailwind can be properly fixed.

[Marvelous_A]

I wouldn't care too much about it. Apparently Hildryn can hover but with reduced mobility. Zephyr is not designed around flying but rather wind element. I do hope DE will modify Tailwind into a channel ability that allows you to propel forward non-stop when you hold down the ability button.

[ObviousLee]

Just now, Marvelous_A said:

I wouldn't care too much about it. Apparently Hildryn can hover but with reduced mobility. Zephyr is not designed around flying but rather wind element. I do hope DE will modify Tailwind into a channel ability that allows you to propel forward non-stop when you hold down the ability button.

Not designed around aviation? then why are more than half of her skills named after aviation terms?

Why is she covered in flight surfaces.

Why does she have an empennage?

 

Edit: not trying to come off as condescending, I'm literally asking your input.

Edited March 7, 2019 by ObviousLee

[(PSN)IroncladBomber]

How does she Fly? Daemonic Space-Hell Magic. Like where most Frame Powers Come from other than Vauban who just made neat Gadgets. 

[Marvelous_A]

2 minutes ago, ObviousLee said:

Not designed around aviation? then why are more than half of her skills named after aviation terms?

Why is she covered in flight surfaces.

Why does she have an empennage?

 

Edit: not trying to come off as condescending, I'm literally asking your input.

They mean nothing. Nowhere in her description, prime or non-prime, depicts that she is designed for flight. If she can transform into F-35 but still can't fly I'd have understood your grudge. But she can't. She is designed around wind element, not strictly flying. 

[InDueTime-EN-]

 

 

18 minutes ago, ObviousLee said:

it's about it being USEABLE in all situations

 

18 minutes ago, ObviousLee said:

Tailwind primary action can still be useful when it comes to traversal, even if it is much harder to control and may usually cause you to crash into walls. Compare that to Ember's fireblast which is really just useful in early game, what about tesla? spectral scream? 

It is useable, I can go on a tileset and slam my face all over the place if I wanted to. Long corridors are specially quick to go through or these rooms : 

Spoiler

 

 

9 minutes ago, ObviousLee said:

Not designed around aviation? then why are more than half of her skills named after aviation terms?

Emphasis on Terms. These names came after creating the abilities, same as most warframes. 

Oberon "Paladin Themed Skills" "Druid Themed Aesthetics"

Revenant "Vampire Themed Skills" "Sentient Themed Aesthetics"

 

27 minutes ago, -QUILL_PETER- said:

Zephyr: not-so-flying wind/aviation themed warframe=makes way less more sense

Wind related things that don't fly : 

Fans

Windmills

Tornadoes/Huricanes

Sails

Edited March 7, 2019 by InDueTime-EN-

[ObviousLee]

3 minutes ago, Marvelous_A said:

They mean nothing. Nowhere in her description, prime or non-prime, depicts that she is designed for flight. If she can transform into F-35 but still can't fly I'd have understood your grudge. But she can't. She is designed around wind element, not strictly flying. 

She's not a transformer though, so your comparison falls flat.

She has flight surfaces, those tie into her thematic just the same as every other warframe, or does nidus's infested chunks of flesh that spring up when he's "excited" have nothing to do with his* theme as well?

 

Guessing Ember's flames have nothing to do with theme as well, by your logic.

Edited March 7, 2019 by ObviousLee
typo whoopsie

[ObviousLee]

1 minute ago, InDueTime-EN- said:

 

 

 

It is useable, I can go on a tileset and slam my face all over the place if I wanted to. Long corridors are specially quick to go through or these rooms : 

  Hide contents

 

 

Emphasis on Terms. These names came after the abilities were given after creating the abilities, same as most warframes. 

Oberon "Paladin Themed Skills" "Druid Themed Aesthetics"

Revenant "Vampire Themed Skills" "Sentient Themed Aesthetics"

 

Wind related things that don't fly : 

Fans

Windmills

Tornadoes/Huricanes

Sails

And as mentioned before, none of those have anything to do with flight. They don't have flight surfaces.

 

In case anyone is wondering where I'm drawing this whole aviation thing from, it's my experience of flying aircraft in the military.

 

Edit: nothing in this quoted post challenges my claim. You cannot do a max duration build for zephyr, and still utilize her tailwind indoors properly due to the way the mechanic functions as it won't let you out of the animation till the duration ends.

 

If anything, you've only reinforced my point.

Edited March 7, 2019 by ObviousLee

[Marvelous_A]

2 minutes ago, ObviousLee said:

She's not a transformer though, so your comparison falls flat.

She has flight surfaces, those tie into her thematic just the same as every other warframe, or does nidus's infested chunks of flesh that spring up when he's "excited" have nothing to do with her theme as well?

 

Guessing Ember's flames have nothing to do with theme as well, by your logic.

Her design does tie to wind though. But wind doesn't necessarily equal flying. You know, like penguin. A bird by all means but doesn't mean they necessarily can fly.

[(PSN)psycofang]

1 hour ago, ObviousLee said:

Hovering, and hover is a method of flight.

Zephyr can hover too so whats the issue?

[seprent]

1 minute ago, Marvelous_A said:

A bird by all means but doesn't mean they necessarily can fly.

the stars have aligned and im given the excuse to post this 

Spoiler

 

[ObviousLee]

Just now, Marvelous_A said:

Her design does tie to wind though. But wind doesn't necessarily equal flying. You know, like penguin. A bird by all means but doesn't mean they necessarily can fly.

See now this is a reasonable response. However I must direct back to the notion of a warframe, the only one I might add who has flight surfaces. These are key tools for flight. They alongside her passive of lighter than air alloy makeup and her thematic tie into a warframe that should have been able to fly, but due to the system restrictions at the time of incorporation couldn't. It was understandable then, and had not a single other warframe come out with an ability of flight as an ability I'd not be nearly as bothered by it.

 

But we have not one, but two frames that can do what a warframe centered around dominating the skies as mentioned in her release trailer, cannot do.

 

This, requires justification for me to be ok with. I'm ok with zephyr never flying so long as DE can give me a good reason why, when all the tools necessary to make whats been asked for a possiblity already exist within tailwinds mechanics as it currently is.

[InDueTime-EN-]

1 minute ago, ObviousLee said:

And as mentioned before, none of those have anything to do with flight. They don't have flight surfaces.

As I mentioned, the aviation names were given after the abilities were set. 

If your basis of her being an Aviation Frame is the names, then Let me rename each ability to make it wind themed :  Air jump, Air bust, Wind shield, Tornadoes. There you go, now you can complain how unimaginative those names are, but they will no longer be "Aviation Themed"

[(PSN)psycofang]

1 minute ago, seprent said:

the stars have aligned and im given the excuse to post this 

  Hide contents

 

Why does that look too close to.my zephyr

[ObviousLee]

1 minute ago, (PS4)psycofang said:

Zephyr can hover too so whats the issue?

The issue is you can accomplish the exact same thing by jumping and aim-gliding. you even get the added benefit of moving without having to wither wait for the duration to end or rolling out. It's added fluff for a subpar outcome thats easier achieved by not doing the charge.

Edited March 7, 2019 by ObviousLee

[seprent]

Just now, (PS4)psycofang said:

Why does that look too close to.my zephyr

magic of the stars aligning and giving me the excuse to post a bird from new Zealand 

[Genesix6]

You know, it will be cool if zephyr had an ability that can fly like a jet. That being said, it wouldn't work that well if we were to play in tight space. A lot of mission location are is usually small and narrow such as grinner and corpus ship, so the only thing you will be experience is smashing yourself to the wall.

Also

2 minutes ago, seprent said:

the stars have aligned and im given the excuse to post this 

  Hide contents

 

Tailess peacock frame confirm

[(PSN)psycofang]

Just now, ObviousLee said:

The issue is you can accomlish the exact same thing by jumping and aimgliding

No you cant.

Thats not sustained hovering thats called gliding. 

1 minute ago, ObviousLee said:

you even get the added benefit of moving without having to wither wait for the duration to end or rolling out. 

But the added con os that i cant stay up in the air almost perpetually out of harms way whilst i lay waste to everything below me.

A thing aim glide cant do and Hyld hasn't been proven to do.

[PoisonHD]

4 minutes ago, InDueTime-EN- said:

As I mentioned, the aviation names were given after the abilities were set. 

If your basis of her being an Aviation Frame is the names, then Let me rename each ability to make it wind themed :  Air jump, Air bust, Wind shield, Tornadoes. There you go, now you can complain how unimaginative those names are, but they will no longer be "Aviation Themed"

He's not talking about the ability names there, he's talking about how the design of the frame, the model, has flight surfaces and looks like it was made to fly. The names are aviation based, yes, but that's less of an issue. The fact is that in the lore, the frame is made mostly of a material that is lighter then air, and has surfaces that could let her fly.

Edited March 7, 2019 by PoisonHD

[ObviousLee]

Just now, InDueTime-EN- said:

As I mentioned, the aviation names were given after the abilities were set. 

If your basis of her being an Aviation Frame is the names, then Let me rename each ability to make it wind themed :  Air jump, Air bust, Wind shield, Tornadoes. There you go, now you can complain how unimaginative those names are, but they will no longer be "Aviation Themed"

blatantly missed the part about how the physical representation of the warframe also is indicative and ties into the thematic. So again, does nidus's infested parts not factor into his theme? How about Embers flames? Frosts ice vents? Yup nothing is indicative of what the frame is about, so obviously flight surfaces on a warframe would definitely indicate that it's themed around necromancy.

 

Just now, Genesix6 said:

You know, it will be cool if zephyr had an ability that can fly like a jet. That being said, it wouldn't work that well if we were to play in tight space. A lot of mission location are is usually small and narrow such as grinner and corpus ship, so the only thing you will be experience is smashing yourself to the wall.

Also

Tailess peacock frame confirm

please read the OP with my flight mechanic as your concerns of continued flight are addressed and remedied in my post.

[InDueTime-EN-]

Your Logic : Her Ability names are Aviation Themed = She must be based on Aviation.

 

My suggestion : Don't use the names of the Abilities. Look what each ability does and decide on the theme on that.

 

1st ability = warframe jumps in a the direction that your facing at great speeds and deals damage to enemies. Secondary : Allows warframe to hover.

2nd ability = creates a burst of wind in front of you that damages enemies.

3rd ability = creates a wind shield that deflects bullets

4th ability = creates tornadoes.

 

So, based on these descriptions. What do you think is the theme?