Warframe's First Paywall

[(PSN)Onder6099]

59 minutes ago, Knowmad762 said:

This is all about fair monetization policies in the gaming industry, and the possible erosion of DE's normally exemplary business practices, but thank you for asking.

Blaming someone just because players are inpatient? Was a specific unit introduced which can be killed with Hyldrin only or is there a content which can’t be doable with rest, around 30, Frames?

[Pro3Display]

3 hours ago, (PS4)Onder6099 said:

Blaming someone just because players are inpatient? Was a specific unit introduced which can be killed with Hyldrin only or is there a content which can’t be doable with rest, around 30, Frames?

idk what games you play but for the sake of example lets just assume league of legends.

you earn ingame currency you can open characters with by playing the game

but then one character can only be bought with premium currency because developer didn't decide on an ingame currency price or whatever

you can still win the match with other characters right?

Edited March 12, 2019 by Pro3Display

[Ultimatesoup]

il y a 4 minutes, Pro3Display a dit :

idk what games you play but for the sake of example lets just assume league of legends.

you earn ingame currency you can open characters with by playing the game

but then one character can only be bought with premium currency because developer didn't decide on an ingame currency price or whatever

you can still win the match with other characters right?

Don't even need to go that far.

Can you obtain Hildryn in an other way than Platinum? Can you start progressing toward her obtention?

No. Therefore, it is a paywall. Temporary paywall, but it is still a paywall.

[Pro3Display]

Just now, Ultimatesoup said:

-snip-

i'm just trying to make it understandable

[(XBOX)AD Symmetry]

On 2019-03-09 at 4:17 PM, simplygnome said:

So if she's literally impossible to earn... Why is she in the Cash Shop? If fair's fair, why not hold off on releasing her for real money until she's actually earnable in-game?

So. What i'm basically seeing here, and this is just the way (I) see it, is that wallet warriors should be on the same scale as free players who don't want to spend money on the game. The wallet warriors (people who play to win faster) get Hildryn faster because they are opening their heart- er, I mean WALLETS to [DE]. Now I, as a free player with not even so much as a dollar put into this game for 3 years, know and understand that DE is, first and foremost, a business even if they don't always act like it, (You guys know what I'm talking about.) But the wallet warriors are, in the end, worth more to the lifetime and lifespan of the game than the free players. For me, it's a pretty simple compromise, If I give in to the hype and I can't bear to wait a single day longer, and fork over my hard-earned money to get Hildryn, should I be expected to wait just as long as the free players who pay nothing? Or better yet, would you like it if you had to wait? Its like going to an amusement park, buying a fast-pass, and still having to wait in the line with the others who didn't spend $200 on a little piece of plastic that tells you "join the much shorter, emptier line and get to the ride before everyone else, because you paid for that right, the prerogative we offer to those who invest more money in our business". Fair IS Fair. You pay more, you get more, you pay less, you get less. So, just my 2 cents, but I have no problem with the way things are right now with Hildryn.

Edited March 12, 2019 by (XB1)DarkRepulser205

[Ketec]

In this case - you have the grind to farm parts - which i assume will not be fast or will be locked behind duck rep again. Then craft parts and build frame.

But that is after the event progresses which can easily take another week from now.

Edited March 12, 2019 by Ketec

[Zeclem]

On 2019-03-09 at 6:52 PM, Mad5cout said:

Can I just point out that the most recent update is one of the first times we have seen mainline content hidden behind a platinum paywall?  It is currently not possible to unlock Hildryn without paying platinum, creating a delayed release profit-making scheme that, to my knowledge, has not happened yet in Warframe.  Am I overstating this?  To me, this comes off like a major betrayal to the commitment DE has long made to its player base.  To me, this comes off as pay to win (first).  While we will all get access to the content eventually, this is a significant change to their content release practices.

Am I the only one seeing this?

well....not really. you needed to farm for a couple of days (cus of daily limits) to get garudas materials for example. it might be a bit more of a waiting, but this system is nothing new to de. 

[Kuldor]

1 minute ago, Zeclem said:

well....not really. you needed to farm for a couple of days (cus of daily limits) to get garudas materials for example. it might be a bit more of a waiting, but this system is nothing new to de. 

You said it.

 

As soon as the warframe was introduced, you could start working towards it.

 

As of right now, you can't do S#&$ towards the new frame, you have to wait and THEN, work towards it, this is a paid early access.

[simplygnome]

36 minutes ago, Kuldor said:

You said it.

 

As soon as the warframe was introduced, you could start working towards it.

 

As of right now, you can't do S#&$ towards the new frame, you have to wait and THEN, work towards it, this is a paid early access.

Except you can - its in the second part of the event. You can get those scans, and encourage the community to get those scans.

The pathway is there, its just a community challenge, not a personal one.

[Zeclem]

40 minutes ago, Kuldor said:

You said it.

 

As soon as the warframe was introduced, you could start working towards it.

 

As of right now, you can't do S#&$ towards the new frame, you have to wait and THEN, work towards it, this is a paid early access.

actually its quite likely that the thermias you are collecting will be used in farming her. 

[Kuldor]

51 minutes ago, simplygnome said:

Except you can - its in the second part of the event. You can get those scans, and encourage the community to get those scans.

The pathway is there, its just a community challenge, not a personal one.

 

48 minutes ago, Zeclem said:

actually its quite likely that the thermias you are collecting will be used in farming her. 

We should not talk over supositions, as of right now, we don't know when where or how will the warframe be obtained, as logical as some options may sound.

 

With that in mind, the only way to get the frame is platinum.

[Zeclem]

2 minutes ago, Kuldor said:

We should not talk over supositions, as of right now, we don't know when where or how will the warframe be obtained, as logical as some options may sound.

 

With that in mind, the only way to get the frame is platinum.

did you mean supersitions? those are something completely different. 

[Kuldor]

Just now, Zeclem said:

did you mean supersitions? those are something completely different. 

No, I meant suppositions, I'm sorry if a single P completely threw you off my whole comment.

[Sloan441]

6 hours ago, Ultimatesoup said:

Can you obtain Hildryn in an other way than Platinum? Can you start progressing toward her obtention?

No. Therefore, it is a paywall. Temporary paywall, but it is still a paywall.

Do I care about Hildryn?

No. Therefore, it is not a paywall. 

 

[Knowmad762]

1 hour ago, simplygnome said:

Except you can - its in the second part of the event. You can get those scans, and encourage the community to get those scans.

The pathway is there, its just a community challenge, not a personal one.

For this to be true, one would have to believe that the event gating is actually progress based, of which I am incredibly skeptical. It's nothing against DE, it just makes very little business sense to do it that way, where you have very little control over your content deployment timeline. It is far more logical to have a firm time gate, that conveniently looks like a progress gate, and there has been evidence in game to support this theory before.

Secondly, if this is actually a legitimate community progression gate, would it not make even more sense to hold back the ability to purchase Hildryn until the second phase is triggered? That way, the entire community is united behind a desire to unlock the next phase; we would all lift together to unlock access to Hildyrn for everybody, buyers and earners alike. As it stands, those who already purchased Hildryn have far less motivation to actually do the scans than those who wish to unlock the ability to earn her.

[simplygnome]

1 minute ago, Knowmad762 said:

For this to be true, one would have to believe that the event gating is actually progress based, of which I am incredibly skeptical. It's nothing against DE, it just makes very little business sense to do it that way, where you have very little control over your content deployment timeline. It is far more logical to have a firm time gate, that conveniently looks like a progress gate, and there has been evidence in game to support this theory before.

Secondly, if this is actually a legitimate community progression gate, would it not make even more sense to hold back the ability to purchase Hildryn until the second phase is triggered? That way, the entire community is united behind a desire to unlock the next phase; we would all lift together to unlock access to Hildyrn for everybody, buyers and earners alike. As it stands, those who already purchased Hildryn have far less motivation to actually do the scans than those who wish to unlock the ability to earn her.

Sure, and I have little drive to unlock the event bc I dont care about her atm.

I dont see anything wrong with people buying her with plat, mostly in light of plat being an earnable resource in game. Hell, a lot of people were saying how the first week of NW they make several THOUSAND plat from selling Ayatans.

[simplygnome]

We'll get her eventually, its a group game, not VS, and I dont think itll be LONG before shes earnable.

Well...unless you dont have Vox leveled, then itll be a bit.

[Knowmad762]

15 minutes ago, simplygnome said:

We'll get her eventually, its a group game, not VS, and I dont think itll be LONG before shes earnable.

You're missing the point: how long the gap is between buyer's access and earner's access is irrelevant, the fact that there is any gap at all is the issue. That gap has never existed previously, thus, it marks an objective change in DE's monetization policy. DE is free to change their policies whenever they like (or if they are pressured by their parent corporation to do so), but we as a community have to choose if this is acceptable or not.

Just a fair warning: at one point, EA was a perfectly fine company, until somebody said "hey, I bet we can squeeze a bit more money out of our content somehow". Fast forward to now, where they are the most hated company in gaming. Slippery slope indeed.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

25 minutes ago, Knowmad762 said:

You're missing the point: how long the gap is between buyer's access and earner's access is irrelevant, the fact that there is any gap at all is the issue. That gap has never existed previously, thus, it marks an objective change in DE's monetization policy. DE is free to change their policies whenever they like (or if they are pressured by their parent corporation to do so), but we as a community have to choose if this is acceptable or not.

Just a fair warning: at one point, EA was a perfectly fine company, until somebody said "hey, I bet we can squeeze a bit more money out of our content somehow". Fast forward to now, where they are the most hated company in gaming. Slippery slope indeed.

No, that's just the entitlement talking. 

Every so often I see console players acting all upset because we don't have access to the content that PC has had for weeks. They don't care why they don't have it, just that they don't. 

 

No day zero newb is going to be able to access it either. And demanding that they be given it when they haven't done a thing to earn it, would be laughable at best. So then why on Earth would we not laugh at any so-called veterans who had put as little effort into levelling that syndicate who decided to try demanding that they should get access to the rewards? 

Put in the effort and you will eventually get your reward, just like any other newb who hasn't put in the effort yet. 

And you're dead wrong. That particular type of gap has been there for a long time. Newbs who couldn't do alerts, or events because they just weren't able to complete that content, have always been a thing. If they spend time getting better before it rolls around the next time, they can try to get the rewards and will usually be able to. 

And realistically, it's unlikely that you can't remember being at that level, isn't it? 

[Knowmad762]

9 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

No day zero newb is going to be able to access it either. And demanding that they be given it when they haven't done a thing to earn it, would be laughable at best. So then why on Earth would we not laugh at any so-called veterans who had put as little effort into levelling that syndicate who decided to try demanding that they should get access to the rewards? 

Put in the effort and you will eventually get your reward, just like any other newb who hasn't put in the effort yet. 

And you're dead wrong. That particular type of gap has been there for a long time. Newbs who couldn't do alerts, or events because they just weren't able to complete that content, have always been a thing. If they spend time getting better before it rolls around the next time, they can try to get the rewards and will usually be able to. 

And realistically, it's unlikely that you can't remember being at that level, isn't it?  

You are completely overlooking the entire concept of progression. Sticking with vanilla Warframes for simplicity and focus: You are correct that a day 1 player cannot earn every single Warframe, and I have never advocated that they should have it handed to them without effort. But that day 1 player can progress towards earning any vanilla frame in the game, doing objectives and clearing the necessary prerequisites with every play session bringing them closer to their goal.

This concept does not apply to Hildryn, as literally no progress can be made towards earning her at all. The only prerequisite is Solaris rank 2: keep in mind that many players have already bypassed rank 2, as Solaris rank 3 was previously required to unlock Baruuk. So many players already have the sole prerequisite finished, and can do nothing else to progress, which is not a great feeling.

[AndouRaiton]

Personally, i don't really care for the simple fact that the exploiter fight should be coming in ~2 weeks (after the thermal fissure event as the diluted thermia will be necessary to complete the fight, maybe add another week if we include bug fixing for the fight).

"Some people have her first"; so what, they spent their money to get early access to her and further they HELP us new players by finding all the bugs and issues she has before the rest of us get our hands on her.

"Free players can't grind her yet"; again, in ~2 weeks the exploiter will be fightable, it's not that long of a wait (especially for those of us that can't play for long periods of time) and further gives more time for the people who did buy her to find issues (as mentioned above).

Further, if the fight was available now, then everyone would complain about the boss fight and the need to grind it for a frame (as not even revenant requires you to kill eidolons to make).

tl;dr be patient and wait for ~2 weeks and you'll be able to grind her and most of her issues will be resolved by then.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

41 minutes ago, Knowmad762 said:

You are completely overlooking the entire concept of progression. Sticking with vanilla Warframes for simplicity and focus: You are correct that a day 1 player cannot earn every single Warframe, and I have never advocated that they should have it handed to them without effort. But that day 1 player can progress towards earning any vanilla frame in the game, doing objectives and clearing the necessary prerequisites with every play session bringing them closer to their goal.

This concept does not apply to Hildryn, as literally no progress can be made towards earning her at all. The only prerequisite is Solaris rank 2: keep in mind that many players have already bypassed rank 2, as Solaris rank 3 was previously required to unlock Baruuk. So many players already have the sole prerequisite finished, and can do nothing else to progress, which is not a great feeling.

No, I'm not. But you definitely are. 

This game has multiple areas that each have a progression system. The Fortuna syndicates are one of those. Literally the exact same whining was made when Sacrifice came out and advancing in one of the Cetus syndicate was oh so popular. The so called vets had had loads of time to do the content that would have leveled them up. They refused. When they realised that the rewards would have made a lot of difference, they complained that they should not be expected to have to play the game to get what they want, and that expecting them to have worked even minimally on content that had been around for a while, was unreasonable. 

They were being ridiculously entitled. It seems that nothing has changed for some people. Even if the rewards are locked at the maximum rank, it's not "unacceptable". It's just a requirement. 

 

Now as to you having to wait to be able to get the parts, those of us on console who had put an effort into the content, had the prerequisite to make it easy to cheese through it. And we got to sit on our thumbs and wait. And wait. And wait. Know how dumb it would sound if us console peasants started complaining about not even having access to even the things that you have access to? 

How's that different from what you are currently experiencing? You have to wait for the next phase of the events to get the parts? Ooh, aah. How do dare they make you wait while they work on ensuring that the content? 🙄

 

[Kuldor]

1 hour ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

How's that different from what you are currently experiencing? You have to wait for the next phase of the events to get the parts? Ooh, aah. How do dare they make you wait while they work on ensuring that the content? 🙄

 

You are missing the point so blatantly it's almost embarrasing to read.

 

No one on this planet can get the new frame without paying for it. It's nothing related to diferent branches of the game, nothing related to certification on consoles, they just introduced a warframe in the game when you can NOT get it unless you pay for it (regardless of how you received the platinum, you are using premium currency).

 

In my opinion it can only be justified as a test, to see if this stirs too much S#&$ among the community, if it doesn't, do it again, as it's obviously profitable to release stuff this way, other companies have been doing it for years.

 

Any other past warframe would have been released in two weeks, when we can actually fight the exploiter orb and get the rest of the parts, the sole reason to release it like this is money. You don't care about that or even think is fine for them to release like this? fine, everyone has an opinion, but it's indeed a change of business practice from DE towards a less user friendly model.

Edited March 12, 2019 by Kuldor

[Knowmad762]

51 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

No, I'm not. But you definitely are. 

This game has multiple areas that each have a progression system. The Fortuna syndicates are one of those. Literally the exact same whining was made when Sacrifice came out and advancing in one of the Cetus syndicate was oh so popular. The so called vets had had loads of time to do the content that would have leveled them up. They refused. When they realised that the rewards would have made a lot of difference, they complained that they should not be expected to have to play the game to get what they want, and that expecting them to have worked even minimally on content that had been around for a while, was unreasonable. 

They were being ridiculously entitled. It seems that nothing has changed for some people. Even if the rewards are locked at the maximum rank, it's not "unacceptable". It's just a requirement. 

The "exact same whining" is actually impossible, because this situation has never occurred in the game's history until now. Nobody is complaining that "they should be expected to play the game to get what they want", they are complaining that the entire option of playing the game to get what they want is fundamentally impossible. Cash currency for Hildryn or nothing. We can currently choose from Option A or... Option A.

 

54 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Now as to you having to wait to be able to get the parts, those of us on console who had put an effort into the content, had the prerequisite to make it easy to cheese through it. And we got to sit on our thumbs and wait. And wait. And wait. Know how dumb it would sound if us console peasants started complaining about not even having access to even the things that you have access to? 

How's that different from what you are currently experiencing? You have to wait for the next phase of the events to get the parts? Ooh, aah. How do dare they make you wait while they work on ensuring that the content? 🙄

Clearly you have some deep seated issue with the PC/console content gap, and that is a discussion well outside the scope of this thread. The only thing I will say to that, is that I wonder if they will do the same buyer/earner gap on the consoles? It's pretty clear that it was done deliberately, and not for any technical reason. Like many things, they are likely using the console gap to gauge how the community is reacting to the new policy, before a decision on implementation.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

1 hour ago, Knowmad762 said:

The "exact same whining" is actually impossible, because this situation has never occurred in the game's history until now. Nobody is complaining that "they should be expected to play the game to get what they want", they are complaining that the entire option of playing the game to get what they want is fundamentally impossible. Cash currency for Hildryn or nothing. We can currently choose from Option A or... Option A.

Nonsense upon nonsense. 

Yes people are whining because they are required to play the game. Look at the threads. Look at the sheer number of threads. 

And people are also whining because they have to wait, for the next stage of the process. OMG, what! How dare they make us pay for something, when we could just wait for it to come out? 

They didn't make us pay for Vauban, and we had to wait for his parts. Do you know how long some people went without his parts because they couldn't farm them on their first day? Exact same situation. And exact same solution: wait for them to become available. 

 

If you feel that you want to keep up with the Joneses that's just too bad. Nobody is making you pay money except for your own impatience. 

1 hour ago, Knowmad762 said:

Clearly you have some deep seated issue with the PC/console content gap, and that is a discussion well outside the scope of this thread. The only thing I will say to that, is that I wonder if they will do the same buyer/earner gap on the consoles? It's pretty clear that it was done deliberately, and not for any technical reason. Like many things, they are likely using the console gap to gauge how the community is reacting to the new policy, before a decision on implementation.

Nope. I don't mind waiting, but my head hasn't been buried, so I have seen the complaint threads from others who have less patience. And in a discussion on "boo hoo I have to wait for content" I gotta tell you, you're going to have to take a number, there are lots of people in that queue ahead of you. 

 

Regarding if we'll have to sit around and wait for the content to drop, yes we probably will, and that's fine because it gives the people who are still relative newbs who will have access a while to work on the stuff they're going to need to make the most of the rewards when the time comes. 

You might want to do that too. 

Edited March 12, 2019 by (PS4)guzmantt1977
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