Make enemies on the starchart as powerful as the enemies in the vallis

[birdobash]

So I was fighting at the temple of profit in orb vallis today trying to get some sola toroids, I was running a 5 forma umbral saryn prime with 150% strength spores and the regenerative molt augment alongside r1 magus elevate (getting the r2 soon). Now usually this build will literally eat sortie 3 enemies alive and they'll never even put a dent in me, it absolutely trashes ESO, and I can take this thing against grineer or corrupted at level 140+ easily, TL:DR this build is good.

So you can imagine my surprise when just a few minutes into the farm, level 60-70ish corpus are taking my 1200 damage ramped spores like it's nothing, kill my kavat, and then knock me down and kill me before I can even get back up. All this time I'm thinking, "what level are these guys again?" A quick check and they're only about level 65, I revive and continue to fight them, but around enemy level 70 they've already killed my kavat about 6 more times and I'm tired of trying to rez him, plus I can't take the risk as they're burning through my health even when I'm bullet jumping through the air, with my molt heal up, and with me spamming operator mode to trigger magus elevate. I literally have to go hide inside a truck to the right of the temple so I have cover.

About a minute later, the corpus have spawned in about 5 nullifier units (the darker blue vallis variant) and they completely cleanse their teammates of my spores, I'm forced to retreat because I didn't feel I had time to destroy the 5 nullifiers before getting shot to death as I didn't have optimal nulli killing weapons (wasn't expecting multiple at once, especially not 5), and I wasn't confident I could ramp up spores quick enough before all the raknoids running around killed me with another knockdown.

Besides all the bullShıttery that the corpus on the vallis have with all their knockdowns, magnetic procs, and nullifiers, why can't other enemies in the starchart be as tough as they are? Even between the 2 open worlds, you can really feel the power difference between vallis enemies and plains enemies, with the latter all being glorified versions of their normal counterparts, the vallis enemies being marginally less glorified versions, but actual intense upgrades to their spaceship brethren.

Besides armored enemies, all the enemies available to fight in the game are all pretty weak in respect to health, while heavily armored enemies are just too bullet spongey, so its surprising to find that an unarmored enemy could actually be so tough, and not overly tough too, at such a low level.

Edited March 16, 2019 by birdobash

[GrimAtrament]

It seems like thats what they are doing if you watch the dev stream for Jupiter gas city.

[Nok-Rntha]

I've noticed the Vallis enemies being quite tough compared to, say, even level 100 spaceship Corpus, Nullifiers included. Had to shuffle the mods on my gear a bit, but it was kinda refreshing for them to not just be pushovers compared to the Grineer. It was quite amusing (and infuriating) to have a Jackal eat up an entire magazine from my Supra Vandal and survive.

[Xzorn]

Lvl 125 Vallis enemies have the stats of lvl 220-250 normal Corpus. They also gain new abilities.

They scale from lvl 60 to 125 in like 5 minutes as well. Unfortunately they cap at 125 when it starts to interesting.

I had the most fun in Fortuna farming Toroids at Alert 4. The enemies actually push back a bit. I posted multiple times on how the Alert system can be our salvation and even spent a week creating a template to layer on to current endless missions. I dunno, hopefully someone listens.

[(XBOX)Tornicade]

I think warframe would generate more revenues taking the mr20+ out of the existing node map..they could do this by setting up a quest to flag vets that gives them access to an elite version of each node ..perhaps requiring 3 wins per node to unlock the next one and setting up new elite junctions..this would allow them to generate affinity at full power.also. Only flagged can piggyback these elite nodes..not sure the reward structure

[(XBOX)Erudite Prime]

4 hours ago, (XB1)Tornicade said:

I think warframe would generate more revenues taking the mr20+ out of the existing node map..they could do this by setting up a quest to flag vets that gives them access to an elite version of each node ..perhaps requiring 3 wins per node to unlock the next one and setting up new elite junctions..this would allow them to generate affinity at full power.also. Only flagged can piggyback these elite nodes..not sure the reward structure

How would this generate any more revenue? 

[(XBOX)Tornicade]

4 hours ago, (XB1)Erudite God said:

How would this generate any more revenue? 

It creates more opportunity and expands depth of content for the 1 year + player base.. It also allows them to make elite versions of the old stuff. Recycled content + new installments = more plat spending. 

[Steel_Rook]

Unless you want to prevent new players from ever picking up the game and utterly ruining the fun of anyone who doesn't like fighting level 200 enemies, increasing the difficulty of the Star Chart to that extent is not a good idea. While I'm sure long-time vets can enjoy the Terra Corpus, that doesn't change the fact their design is dreadfully bad. They basically have all of the things, from armour to shields to health to ability nullification and energy drains to high damage to AoE to control to control resistance and everything else in-between. That's not "a faction," it's "all of the factions" and there's really nowhere to go from that point. Not only are they abnormally tough to the point of - I'm sorry - not being fun to fight, but they're straight-up cheese.

Put it this way - there's a reason DE had to severely nerf the Terra Corpus the day of Fortuna's release and only much later reintroduce Elite units to the faction which only pop up in the highest level bounties. Unless you're proposing some kind of optional challenge mode Tornicade does, where overpowered veterans can go fight high-level enemies but ordinary players wouldn't be forced into it, then my stance on the suggestion is a "hard no."

[XenMaster]

18 hours ago, (XB1)Cubic Clem said:

But please no stupid knockdown and stagger spams.. thx

Be atlas main then xD

 

Joke aside, they can add only one unit type that has spammable cc.

[Celthric317]

It is the difficulty of the orb vallis mobs that makes me wonder lorewise why the corpus haven't eliminated the grineer years ago...

[birdobash]

3 hours ago, Steel_Rook said:

Unless you want to prevent new players from ever picking up the game and utterly ruining the fun of anyone who doesn't like fighting level 200 enemies, increasing the difficulty of the Star Chart to that extent is not a good idea. While I'm sure long-time vets can enjoy the Terra Corpus, that doesn't change the fact their design is dreadfully bad. They basically have all of the things, from armour to shields to health to ability nullification and energy drains to high damage to AoE to control to control resistance and everything else in-between. That's not "a faction," it's "all of the factions" and there's really nowhere to go from that point. Not only are they abnormally tough to the point of - I'm sorry - not being fun to fight, but they're straight-up cheese.

Put it this way - there's a reason DE had to severely nerf the Terra Corpus the day of Fortuna's release and only much later reintroduce Elite units to the faction which only pop up in the highest level bounties. Unless you're proposing some kind of optional challenge mode Tornicade does, where overpowered veterans can go fight high-level enemies but ordinary players wouldn't be forced into it, then my stance on the suggestion is a "hard no."

I specifically said "without the knockdown and nullifier BS", so just similar enemy toughness, and most of the corpus humanoids in the vallis don't even have armor and they're still pretty tough, I'm not talking about the jackals and the raknoids I'm just specifically talking about the little humans.

[Steel_Rook]

2 hours ago, birdobash said:

I specifically said "without the knockdown and nullifier BS", so just similar enemy toughness, and most of the corpus humanoids in the vallis don't even have armor and they're still pretty tough, I'm not talking about the jackals and the raknoids I'm just specifically talking about the little humans.

Even "the little humans" needed a substantial nerf to their performance the day Fortuna debuted, though. Across the board, their damage was slashed in half, and they were still tougher than enemies in the rest of the game. Even ignoring the Raknoids and the Jackals and the Hyenas and the Raptors and the Ambulas and the knockback attacks and the Nullifiers, you're still left with an overpowered faction which I wouldn't want to see spread throughout the game as the mandatory minimum. I stand by what I said - these enemies are appropriate for a separate challenge mode or else an isolated piece of content, not as the de facto status quo across the entirely game.

[(XBOX)Erudite Prime]

14 hours ago, Celthric317 said:

It is the difficulty of the orb vallis mobs that makes me wonder lorewise why the corpus haven't eliminated the grineer years ago...

Terra units are all elites, also the Grineer have sheer numbers on their side.

[(PSN)solartorch81]

As long as they are not immune to CC or limbo rift.

[lighthoof]

On 2019-03-17 at 5:08 AM, (XB1)Tornicade said:

I think warframe would generate more revenues taking the mr20+ out of the existing node map..they could do this by setting up a quest to flag vets that gives them access to an elite version of each node ..perhaps requiring 3 wins per node to unlock the next one and setting up new elite junctions..this would allow them to generate affinity at full power.also. Only flagged can piggyback these elite nodes..not sure the reward structure

Or maybe, you know, send them to Tau to fight the sentient on their ground )

[Tsukinoki]

On 2019-03-15 at 11:17 PM, birdobash said:

why can't other enemies in the starchart be as tough as they are?

Maybe because, oh I don't know, new players are a thing?

Remember: They had to hard nerf the vallis units when they came out because newer players never stood a chance.
And now you're saying "Hey, how about tossing these units everywhere so that new players just have to deal with it!

I'm all for challenge.
I'm all for more difficult enemies.
But not at the expense of driving off every new player because each enemy is multiple times stronger than currently and they have to waste clip after clip after clip after clip to take down each one before moving to the next room to complete basic missions.  And gods help them if they chose the throwing daggers and paris as their starting weapons...

New players already have it rough, we don't need to bring in super units to make to rougher.

IF what you were suggesting was 100% optional, 100% opt in to see the tougher units, like how vallis is with how you can keep the alert level low if you want, then sure.
But if you want to just replace every unit in the game with that difficulty and then just tell new players "Well screw you, get better mods from enemies that you're having a much harder time to deal with so you can progress!" in a nasty catch 22, then its a hard no from me.

Edited March 18, 2019 by Tsukinoki

[lighthoof]

Would be fun to have scaling based on MR, but it would not work still, unless the matchmaking system will work to bunch people with similar if not equal MRs

[ShortCat]

Inflated numbers is not challange.

As a player, who actively tries to avoid meta gear, this would be a downgrade. I have yet to see another Mag, Ember or Banshee in Arbitrations and I do not remember when was the last time I saw somebody using Panthera. This stat inflation will play right into pseudo god mode crowd geared with fancy noobtubes. I remeber there was a time people would laugh at Rhino P. Boltor P. Carrier P loadouts, today people brag about 90% damage dealth with aimbot Mesas or HIV Saryns. The game has changed, so did the community.

Maybe, it is time to move on as well.

[Plushy]

What this looks like to me is the level of enemies in the vallis are improperly labeled and DE should change it. 

Edited March 18, 2019 by Plushy

[(XBOX)Tornicade]

It doesnt work that way. :.an mr8 tenno with primes  and 6 formas every 500k focus slot vs an mr8 with mk1' ..no primes,formas and focus. Is gonna have a  stark contrast to each other even though they both mr8

Edited March 18, 2019 by (XB1)Tornicade

[Makemap]

All the old frames need armor buff. All the new frames get like 100+ armor. Even Nekros is becoming too squishy. He doesn't have any AOE to kill mobs. If they do it. Nekro farming is downright unplayable. He needs 100+ armor. Same with Nova. Can't even solo orb of valis tier 4 bounty with Nekros. Also I think Nekros need shadow of the dead buff from 7 to 10-12 minion to protect excavator or defense properly. 7 doesn't seem to be enough.

Edited March 18, 2019 by Makemap